The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!

@lormiun I use other sails all the time. It's not a problem.

The sail cut is what makes the 8.2 million gold sail unique. If you want to add the ability to apply that sail profile to other sails, I would say sure, at the price of 8.2 million gold for each sail you choose to have cut like it.

@lormiun

It is not a serious problem, by your reasoning any other shape should be removed from the game completely and no others will ever to be introduced because only the best one should be used?

I own the sails, I have used the sails and so do nearly every pirate I regularly sail with. Yet somehow we still use a variety of sails, even when we are hunting and seeking for PvP.

Do you also only use the black tuck outfit, because it gives you an obvious advantage of being less visible? Any glowing cosmetics are banned from your crew and ship sets, because of the undeniable fact that they have a disadvantage? What about the varied cannon and weapons having worse iron sights or the cannon flares obstruction of the vision? There is a bunch of cosmetics that have advantages or disadvantages in the game, you find them all problematic?

The people that care so much about the quality of life, don't want to curl the sails and then complain about the cosmetics... should decide for themself what they care about. The same arguments have been used in the past regarding ripped sails. Those added a quality of life as well... Rare should not limit the cosmetics to be purely the "best" and discard the rest. If you want to be limited in your style by the advantage one cosmetic has over others, that is on you regardless of the reason of either Laziness or PvP... the difference is small enough that with experience it really isn't a big deal.

@lormiun

It does apply though, there are cosmetics that have actually far bigger quality of life effects than the DA sails in my opinion. I don't even curl the sails in most cases even with square ones. That is how "big" a difference it makes for an experienced pirate and there is still the option to curl for a quality of life improvement with any set, that you can control, in situations that you want it. I have done so especially when sailing in open crews.

I personally dislike some of the cannons to the point I never use them, same applies to some of the flintlock models and the cannon flares I prefer to disable, while one of my friends like them a lot. It is a disadvantage or lack of quality of life for me that it does impact my aim, though he is unaffected... but he is also simply a better shot than me in general. Is it now required to be able to adjust the sights on certain cannons or reduce the flare effects, etc.

The idea that the DA sails are the only cosmetics that have a significant degree of quality of life to them is not true. You indicate that you are primarily a helmsman, while I am far more a jack of all trades. People have preferences in cosmetics, some are also just objectively nicer to use than others. Yet none are so much better than others.

If you want to try hard, only want to play with a specific set because you enjoy the slight convenience they provide or not play with others due to the inconvenience of them for you... that is a personal choice. It isn't something that Rare needs to limit themselves to there are many people that will still use other cosmetics because they simply like them.

There was only one ripped sail for a long time too...

A the long time steersman of my crew, i do not see the need to only use the DA sails. We almost never use them as quite frankly they are ugly. Most of the time the sails are turned to either side, and if not you can easily peak under them by slightly moving around. You do not need to stay glued to the wheel all the time, and after the storm nerf, you do not need to worry about storms either.

As the steersman i naturally handle the turning of the ship. This means the steering wheel AND the back sail. (On a sloop the only sail.) Usually your crew will tell you if you need to adjust your course if you can not see properly. And in battle all front sails should be up, so visibility in battle is not a problem for the steersman. In battle i usually make sure the ship has its broadside turned to the enemies, AND i (alone) control the speed by handling the back sails. (In battle, sails should be kept up to make sure the ship can turn quicker, which is especially important on a galleon.)

So the DA sails are really not that important to use. They do give you a slight advantage, and if you are a new player i can see the advantage in using them. Veterans on the other hand really do not need the DA sails.

Again these are my own opinions as a fairly experienced steersman.

@lormiun said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

@kommodoreyenser As long as its POSSIBLE somehow I wouldn't mind 10 million :D
Personally I feel that that would be a bit "unkind" to newer Sailors though.
Nevertheless, to the core of your point I can effectively only nod as well.

Yeah, to clarify, I mean you need to buy whatever sails you want, then pay 8.2 million to the shipwright for the specific DA style profile to them. So some sail would in fact cost 10 million as the sail itself will cost 1 million.

@lormiun how to defend simple its second nature for most people who need some extra vision

People can say what they want. The DA cut lets you see & relax a bit more while on helm - this much cannot be denied. Raising regular cut sails to see better makes you lose an edge on speed. Yes, you can helm just as well with regular sails, but that's not the point. This game can use different styled sails with the same or similar cut.

you ever tried raising your non-DA sails a little for more view? Thats like No 1 tip for beginners

@lormiun

You made the same claims about the ripped sails, 2 years ago:

"This alone would not be a problem BUT it almost forces me to use such a sail because there is NO drawback to this.
I would actually have loved to sail as a highly esteemed seafarer with
obviously very well maintained sails.
Lord Beckett-like ... but that denies me very helpful sight.
Following: It kind of ruins everything cosmetic that does not go with a torn"

https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/125241/torn-sails-skins-are-kind-of-ruining-all-the-not-torn-sails-skins-gameplaywise

In short it really seems like a biased perception, is it really undeniable proof or simple your own applied limitations? Many of us are fine with using any set of sails, just as you are fine with the same criteria being applied to other cosmetics that I bring up that have similar or even worse drawbacks compared to the meta ones.

Just as the ripped sails had cosmetic limitations, the same will be true for the v shaped. Whether Rare will expand the variety in the category as they did with the ripped sails or not will be seen with time, yet it isn't some big issue.

@lormiun

As you state it is your opinion as a helmsman, the arguments used there are similar to the ones now. The same arguments can be applied to other cosmetics and the limitations that it brings to usage of them, even worse where you pay for a worse option than the default. The skeletal cannons and flintlock for instance are atrocious in my view just to use an example and yet they are still usable, some people are not even that bothered by it. I find all cannon effects punishing to use compared to no effect, but my crew still use them for cosmetic purposes. All those are acceptable for you, because you are a helmsman, don't like the cosmetics or like others to a similar fashion that it suits your needs. Some of the more unique cosmetics have downsides to using them... but for sails it is a problem that you feel limited in your choices?

You are trying to depict it as a serious problem, but in reality it is just a preference and a choice. It is a bit of convenience, but not some kind of insurmountable advatage and a must use item. Asking for more variety of that style, is fine... but this over the top dramatic depiction is simply unfounded.

P.S. where I found that post, by using the search function.

@lormiun

Why does it need to be better than the default, why wouldn't it apply towards a blatant disadvantage in using specific unique cosmetics? You made crystal clear the cost is not an issue for you... 10 million not a problem, it is your ability to express yourself and that applies to any cosmetics.

There is a whole array of cannons, flintlocks, canon flares... take your pick. The difference between the sails is less significant where it matters, combat. You shouldn't have your main sail in full bellow when fighting anyway and in a chase 3 steps or a little communication and experience negates the vision difference.

If you want to claim against the default, cosmetic value is insignificant and so... just use the DA sails. Cosmetic value goes from worst to best and default is not the worst and in some cases even the best.

@lormiun

Do you actually think Rare made them 8.2 mil because of how cool the skull on them looks?!

They made them 8.2 million because they're part of the Dark Adventurers set... You don't see anyone complaining about the hull, which is the same price. The cut is just there to fit the dark and edgy aesthetic of the set.
Here is a recent post I made on a different thread that was about the same thing. Please read that, because that's my go-to response to this argument.

Any possible advantage from the DA sails is extremely situational and minor in PvP. Let me know in what scenario these sails directly cause a win or loss in PvP.

In your video, the biggest example you show is how they look on a brig. The ship that has sails to the side in 80% of wind directions... How are DA sails going to help during a crosswind?

You are restricting your own cosmetic options because you are caught up in thinking you can't sail without the 'luxury.' A luxury that isn't even available for most wind directions...

I frequently pick different sails and it never affects my results. On Community Day, I sailed on the Royal Revenge for 6 hours, portal hopping from server to server, sinking whoever we came across. The sails never mattered. Everything else is more important to the outcome of PvP.

Adding new cuts for sails would require new textures for sails. That's a lot of work, and I would like only sails that fit the aesthetic get the cut. The stingier me would still like no other sail to have the same cut, considering that there's not a lot of things that make the DA ship unique enough that players will spend 38 million on it.

Ironically, it's posts and videos like yours that continue to make people think they must buy and use DA sails on every voyage.

Please, just pick a week soon and force yourself to not use the DA sails.

@lormiun

Yet, that means it is not a serious issue and a blatantly punishing experience when you make a different choice. It has a minimal gameplay impact, it is purely a convenience. Yet you phrase it as a must have, inconceivable problem... because you are not able to use it with all other cosmetics. That is just a choice you make just as the ripped sails before that.

@lormiun

Secondly though: I ASSURE YOU not even a tenth of those that currently use DA-Sails would have bought them if it wasn't for the V-cut, and sry but everybody that says anything else in regards to this is simply absolutely wrong! There is ZERO logic behind denying this XD

You stated the price of the sails as proof that Rare knows the sails are an advantage. I said, no, the price is because the set is meant to be expensive. I agree, most sail users are due to the cut. Which I stated is optics about the sails and not a matter of fact. Optics that you contribute to.
A new player comes to the forums, sees your post, and concludes that you must have the DA sails all the time. That's not good for anyone. The rampant posts about the advantage of the DA sails when they were released is part of the reason they are so common nowadays. The players just don't want to think past cut=visibility=PvP.

everybody that says anything else in regards to this is simply absolutely wrong! There is ZERO logic behind denying this XD

This statement is making me a bit shifty about how any further debate is going to work... You started with a "Nope! You're wrong!" argument without looking at why I said what I said.

But as I mentioned. PvP is not the only thing to take into consideration here.
It is the basic Quality-of-Life improvement that is they key motivation here.

I can continue with the same points... in PvE, those sails aren't doing anything for you in a crosswind. Most on the helm aren't there the whole time from island to island. Navigating around rocks/islands early ensures it's not a problem later. The quality of life in regular sailing is still situational. The game had been running for 3 years before the DA sails... I'm sure you figured out how to sail with ease in that time? A good player on the helm doesn't need any rip or cut to have a relaxed experience.

I fully agree with you that when it comes to Meta-PvP INDEED the sails do not make the worlds difference.

Thank you for agreeing.

But I never claimed that. Specifically in my video I share your point of view BUT this is not what matters here.

Any discussion about those sails is going to have those who talk about PvP... I recognized that your video was about QoL, I just needed to cut PvP off of the discussion (and using a previous post is faster than typing a new one, whether or not it fits the discussion).

To be honest, most of those that argue against these sails here seem to try to keep up a mindset of denial.
I carried myself with that mindset too for a while. The mindset that effectively says:
"The DA-Sails advantage is effectively negligible so I can use whatever I want and I am happy :)"

That's not my mindset. My mindset is "Even if the DA sails makes sailing easier, it's not worth ruining cosmetic choice. There is no change in my PvP results, so there's no reason to care one way or the other."

"The DA-Sails advantage is effectively negligible so I can use whatever I want and I am happy :)"

What is wrong with that mindset exactly? Just because someone views an advantage as effectively negligible doesn't mean they should work to remove it so others are happy. Let those who think there's an advantage work to remove it.
There are those that think the DA cannons have horrible aim, but I think that it's a great aim. I'm not going to turn around and try to change that, am I?

---

My personal problem is OCD with colors and sets. I can't put on the DA sails without putting on the rest as well, it's just not in my ability. So if I were like you I would be 'forced' to put on the whole DA set every session. That's just not how I want to play the game. It's hard enough to want to color the ship to match the emissary flag... In this way I pick the DA ship for most Reaper sessions anyway (and to flex that I spent 38 million, more of that psychological warfare you were referring to).
I also get the urge to match my outfit with my ship... so I see where you're coming from. But do you really want to restrict most of your gameplay to one ship, one outfit? The fear of not min-maxing enough just goes too far.

Having read through this whole thread and watching the video posted by @lormiun, I think a lot of people are missing his point.

Regardless of what advantages you feel these sails do or don't provide for you, he is saying they do for him. In his experience, they make casual sailing just a bit easier, and I think all he is asking is to have a discussion about ways Rare could include more options for sails with V cuts. (If I misinterpreted this, please let me know!)

I, for one, love the idea of being able to choose the "state" of your sails, if you will. The same design pattern across different shapes seems like an elegant solution to me. Being able to choose if you want pristine, rugged, torn, or V cut would certainly inspire more pirates to play with sails they'd otherwise not use. I always try to go for a clean look, and it's sometimes difficult for me to find sails where I enjoy not only the livery but also the upkeep, if that makes sense.

Aside from that, I agree with the sentiment that a lot of people use these sails explicitly because they believe it provides them an advantage. Again, whether or not they do isn't the issue; I think we can all agree that the vast majority of players aren't spending more than eight million gold on a single cosmetic because they love the design of it. I think that by introducing more options for V cut sails, we would start to see a lot more design variety on the seas, especially amongst experienced players.

Either way, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that it would be great to see more V cut sails added to the game, if not straight up having the option to apply a V cut or any other condition to any set of sails. To anyone opposed to having more customization options with that same V cut, what reservations would you have to seeing new cosmetics like that implemented into the game?