I no longer buy Emporium ships sets. And how how I think Rare can fix this.

However when I sail a galleon ship with my crew. We only ever use the Dark adventurer V-cut sails, because the advantage to the helmsman is undeniable.

If that is the only reason, you miss out on a few "cool" sails.
Just because the V? Meh, a Good crew doesn't rely on what the Sails look like, you could pull this same effect by "curling" the sail or...idk break the mast and have no sail. :P

No need to fix someone where it a Player Preference over a game changer.

For this reason I am no longer buying emporium ship sets.

Sad to see you miss out on those ships, but hey. Save money right? :D

I propose a solution: allow us to upgrade any sails to a V-Cut design for a substantial gold fee.

You just offered a P2W idea. and Gold would not be enough for this type of demand.

Cos I can't justify the price every month. Never bought any.

@mostexpendable

the advantage to the helmsman is undeniable

It's deniable. I'd go into it now but, nah, you can start if you want to. Those sails aren't an advantage.

I don't buy emporium things often because what I wear is based both off of looks and off of how hard it was to get... Therefore any item obtained with ancient coins is a 0 on how hard it was to get and so I wouldn't use it. PotC stuff is an exception.
So I support Rare by buying emotes. I love extra expressions and the ability to show off rare items (i.e. using weapon emotes to show off my LSD weapons).

Though, I suppose if you're focused on the DA sails, you can always use the Collector's Lunar Festival Sails...

Don't bother most of this forum believe a "good" crew does not use DA sails despite them now being banned in the NAL...

I agree fully DA sails are killing diversity in this game flat out, they are so much better than any other sail and there is no reason to not use them. They are more than a cosmetic and would like the V-cut sail option for all sails or at minimum Rare introduce for V-cut sails.

@metal-ravage that hull looks fantastic IMO. Even makes the rudder gold!

If the V-trim doesn't offer an advantage, maybe those opposed would be in favor of accessibility options that enable a "trimmed sail" appearance while at the wheel?

This would be client side, sails would still appear as normal when not at the wheel and would appear the same to other crews.

By making the sail transparent at the bottom (v-cut) while at the wheel, it avoids the need to reskin the sails, so they all appear the same as they were inherently designed.

I honestly would be fine with this, and would most certainly use it. It does make captaining slightly easier, but I don't feel that it really gives me a noticeable advantage in combat as I usually trim the sails anyway. Still, it has drastically changed which sails I use on brigs on galleons when I am playing seriously (which is most of the time).

Thoughts? Just trying to be constructive and find a good compromise. Whether it is worth dev time is another matter, but maybe making it client side vs retrofitting all sails would be more palatable from a development perspective.

Nerfing DA sails is another idea, which I wouldn't be opposed to. I utilized a lot more cosmetics before DA was released, but now I feel obligated to use them, both for my own benefit and that of my crew. It's a small benefit, but large enough that is discourages using other cosmetics to OPs point.

@wolfmanbush I think what Mint is trying to say is that doesn't matter how difficult or easy it is to get the sails, the OP's original point is that once you have them, you have incentive to use them, and exclusively them. This cuts down on the diversity of sails you see in general, and probably those you personally use.

I can attest that I used to use a myriad of sails, but now use exclusively DA when sailing on brig. And while the advantage is small, the combination of high sunk cost to buy the DA sails and the small perceived benefit by myself and crewmembers is enough to make me use them more often than not.

And I think it's a shame that more people aren't utilizing the wide tapestry of art that Rare has created, or feel compelled to buy emporium sets to use instead, hence this thread.

@wolfmanbush While their usefulness shouldn't necessarily impact your decision to use other sails unless you're all about meta gaming, it's indisputable that the DA sails offer a distinct advantage; especially on the galleon and brig.

Whether you opt into meta gaming or not, I think a fair request would be to allow for a "sail style" setting under the ship cosmetics selector that could be applied to any sail you choose.

Have as a standard offering:
Standard square sails

Then have an unlockable for-gold offering:
Mildly tattered (similar to the ashen dragon sails)
Heavily tattered (similar to the inky kraken sails)
V cut (like the DA sails)

Then, there could be some purchasable (emporium) cuts:
Night Wolf cut
Blighted cut
Shrouded Ghost cut
Eternal Freedom cut
Cursed Ferryman cut
Lunar Festival cut
etc. etc.

When my crew and I are rocking a galleon, we are usually looking forward to some PVP. In the heat of battle, dropping a sail and then curling it again (for line of sight) is not ideal.
Thus the V-cut will always win out with us.

It’s just a shame that there are so many incredible ship sets we can no longer apply - no one wants a clashing set. So everything ends up on the black, red and grey spectrum.

There’s no way I’m going to invest in another great emporium ship set that I won’t use anymore. It sucks.

Clearly there are many others who believe the DA sails give this advantage (despite some descenters on the forums), so I wonder how many Emporium sales have really been lost because of this?
Obviously I can only speak for myself.

But the solution outlined would be a very welcome one!

@wolfmanbush said in I no longer buy Emporium ships sets. And how how I think Rare can fix this.:

@mostexpendable said in I no longer buy Emporium ships sets. And how how I think Rare can fix this.:

so I wonder how many Emporium sales have really been lost because of this?

Dunno but what I do know it that over the years with my many organic interactions with people outside of the streaming/social platform world nearly all of the feedback/opinions I've heard don't get into that side of things at all.

They buy it to support the game, they buy it out of habit or impulse, they buy it because they think it's pretty or cool

Organically speaking I've never known people to get involved or not get involved in the emporium based on things like this thread and what end up on the forums. It's a much more simple approach to purchasing or not purchasing from what I've consistently seen. They like it and can afford it or they don't and/or can't

Which is why I’m mainly speaking for myself and anecdotally.

I like stuff and can afford it. And haven’t been purchasing ship sets because of the DA v-cut. I’m just not going to use them.

And I see a lot of V-cuts out on the seas these days. Especially
On sweatier, and presumably quite heavily invested crews’ ships.

There’s a correlation for me and, I strongly suspect, for others as well.

@burnbacon said in I no longer buy Emporium ships sets. And how how I think Rare can fix this.:

However when I sail a galleon ship with my crew. We only ever use the Dark adventurer V-cut sails, because the advantage to the helmsman is undeniable.

If that is the only reason, you miss out on a few "cool" sails.
Just because the V? Meh, a Good crew doesn't rely on what the Sails look like, you could pull this same effect by "curling" the sail or...idk break the mast and have no sail. :P

No need to fix someone where it a Player Preference over a game changer.

For this reason I am no longer buying emporium ship sets.

Sad to see you miss out on those ships, but hey. Save money right? :D

I propose a solution: allow us to upgrade any sails to a V-Cut design for a substantial gold fee.

You just offered a P2W idea. and Gold would not be enough for this type of demand.

I don’t want to save money. I want Rare to make money.

You also just said good crews don’t need the v-cut. Then turned around and called getting the v-cut P2W.

And you’ve arbitrarily decided that gold isn’t enough… for some reason.

My suggested solution is fine. The effort Rare could put into this is worth it IMO, because it would get people like me back on the ship set purchasing train again. Time investment = justified.

Also it’s a nice quality of life update for all pirates.

Think of the V cut as a stabiliser, training wheels.
When your experienced enough to ride your bike without your dad holding the saddle you won’t need these any more.

A good helmsman can sail with flat sails pulled all the way down, no need to make ANOTHER thing easier for people that just can’t be bothered to work hard

@sweetsandman
Cuts would require reskinning all sails for all cuts. It's not happening.

@MostExpendable

When my crew and I are rocking a galleon, we are usually looking forward to some PVP. In the heat of battle, dropping a sail and then curling it again (for line of sight) is not ideal.
Thus the V-cut will always win out with us.

Here's the criteria you need to fill to have the sails make a difference in PvP:

• You need to be on the wheel (sounds obvious, but a lot of helmsman like to get off the raised part of the ship that has the wheel when not turning the wheel)
• The sails need turned to the middle (they don't have extra visibility when turned to the side)
• The sails must be fully lowered (in a lot of naval scenarios, you want the sails up a bit for manueverability)
• The enemy ship needs to be straight ahead, which usually means you're chasing them (how is extra visibility going to matter when the enemy ship is to your right)
• The enemy ship has to be close enough that the masts don't cover them anyway
• That enemy ship needs to do something (turning, anchoring, harpooning if you're chasing them)
• Your crew has to be slow enough that you wouldn't react in time to the other ship's move without the DA sails (if it only takes your crew 1 second to see and tell you that the enemy ship just harpoon turned, then you are going to have the same reaction as if you saw it yourself through the sails, because some time passes before you need to make the same harpoon turn. Therefore, the DA sails would have changed nothing)
• That potential slow reaction cost you the encounter (If you make a minor sailing error because you didn't have DA sails, it's not going to matter much in the long run)

That's a lot of criteria in order to get a very minor advantage. If DA sails are so incredible, then I'm sure you can let everyone know some scenarios where having DA sails directly causes a win or loss. The fact is, there are no such scenarios. The big 5 still determine who wins: Skill, Supplies, Ship, Experience, and Luck.

The reason that so many put on the DA sails is a matter of optics. Topics like these perpetuate the idea that DA sails give you an advantage. When they came out, a lot of people took the cut as an advantage without thinking about when it would actually help in PvP (it doesn't). And then people keep throwing around this idea and everyone keeps believing it. Personally, when I put on DA sails, I do it to make other crews fearful. They know I want PvP. When I see a ship with just the sails and not the rest of the set, then I just laugh because they think they're helping themselves out when they really aren't.

Who is at fault for your lack of cosmetic choice? You. If I was convinced of the DA advantage like you, then I would be missing out on so many good sails! Overachiever sails, Triumphant Sea Dog Sails, and Bone Crusher sails just to name a few uncut beauties. Deviating from the DA sails has never put me at a disadvantage.

@grumpyw01f said in I no longer buy Emporium ships sets. And how how I think Rare can fix this.:

@sweetsandman
Cuts would require reskinning all sails for all cuts. It's not happening.

---

@MostExpendable

When my crew and I are rocking a galleon, we are usually looking forward to some PVP. In the heat of battle, dropping a sail and then curling it again (for line of sight) is not ideal.
Thus the V-cut will always win out with us.

Here's the criteria you need to fill to have the sails make a difference in PvP:

• You need to be on the wheel (sounds obvious, but a lot of helmsman like to get off the raised part of the ship that has the wheel when not turning the wheel)
• The sails need turned to the middle (they don't have extra visibility when turned to the side)
• The enemy ship needs to be straight ahead, which usually means you're chasing them (how is extra visibility going to matter when the enemy ship is to your right)
• The enemy ship has to be close enough that the masts don't cover them anyway
• That enemy ship needs to do something (turning, anchoring, harpooning if you're chasing them)
• Your crew has to be slow enough that you wouldn't react in time to the other ship's move without the DA sails (if it only takes your crew 1 second to see and tell you that the enemy ship just harpoon turned, then you are going to have the same reaction as if you saw it yourself through the sails, because some time passes before you need to make the same harpoon turn. Therefore, the DA sails would have changed nothing)
• That potential slow reaction cost you the encounter (If you make a minor sailing error because you didn't have DA sails, it's not going to matter much in the long run)

That's a lot of criteria in order to get a very minor advantage. If DA sails are so incredible, then I'm sure you can let everyone know some scenarios where having DA sails directly causes a win or loss. The fact is, there are no such scenarios. The big 5 still determine who wins: Skill, Supplies, Ship, Experience, and Luck.

The reason that so many put on the DA sails is a matter of optics. Topics like these perpetuate the idea that DA sails give you an advantage. When they came out, a lot of people took the cut as an advantage without thinking about when it would actually help in PvP (it doesn't). And then people keep throwing around this idea and everyone keeps believing it. Personally, when I put on DA sails, I do it to make other crews fearful. They know I want PvP. When I see a ship with just the sails and not the rest of the set, then I just laugh because they think they're helping themselves out when they really aren't.

Who is at fault for your lack of cosmetic choice? You. If I was convinced of the DA advantage like you, then I would be missing out on so many good sails! Overachiever sails, Triumphant Sea Dog Sails, and Bone Crusher sails just to name a few uncut beauties. Deviating from the DA sails has never put me at a disadvantage.

Optics = sales.

You may be right. But you are the unpopular opinion. Popular opinions matter more when it comes to making money.

Optics are worth addressing. Particularly when your game runs on micro transactions.

@grumpyw01f said in I no longer buy Emporium ships sets. And how how I think Rare can fix this.:

@sweetsandman
Cuts would require reskinning all sails for all cuts. It's not happening.

---

That sounds like two afternoons of work for the skilled artists at Rare.

My entire premise is that, there is a financial gain to letting us upgrade sails.

I am more likely to pay for sails if I know I can alter them. Or they will come with an alternate v-cut going forward.

It’s a quality of life upgrade that would result in people like me being more comfortable spending money. Real money.

Just learn how to use sails without the rip in them and you will be fine.

Your just looking for an easier option. Just get better at being a helmsman

@mostexpendable

You may be right. But you are the unpopular opinion. Popular opinions matter more when it comes to making money.

Ashen Dragon sails are popular. Should they be changed to be less appealing so the Emporium makes more money? No. The DA sails are 8.3 million gold and look great, of course they would still be very popular without the cut. If Rare thinks popularity ruins the purchase of Emporium cosmetics, we're all in trouble because then everything not paid will be bad in the future...
I don't think DA sails are affecting the Emporium as much as you say they are. Saying the DA sails are the reason you won't buy APL Emporium ships is a reach in my opinion.

@d3adst1ck
I'd still like the DA sails to look unique for 8.3 million.

i refuse to use the DA sails because everbody uses them…its ridiculous. i love the magpie glory set and that is my go to set now and i have 0 issues.

what they could do that nobody ever mentions is scale down the sails. make them a little smaller.

everybody wins

@mostexpendable

If you are prevented in your choices of cosmetics based on min/maxing in this game, then that is not limited to just the sails. Pirate outfits, cannons, cannon flares, even colour pallets and whether cosmetics glow or not give you advantages or disadvantages based on the choices you make. The clear advantage is noticeable, it is why those that try-hard in the game and care about it have the same outfits on, even some weapons fall in this category, the same ship cosmetics, the same type of cannons and not flares.

In the end, Rare being limited by just what is most advantageous or putting much effort into nullifying any artistical freedom where visuals trump functionality would be extremely limiting. Use what you want, if you and your team just want to sweat enjoy the limitations it has and be happy till now Rare has provide us with gold options instead of hiding them behind paywalls. If you want to use other cosmetics, it isn't going to diminish your capabilities, just slightly very minimally impacting the play or requiring a tiny bit more teamwork.

People managed before the DA sails perfectly fine. Just get better at sailing and stop looking for lazy options

@pabio-escobar People managed before lightbulbs perfectly fine. Just get better lighting and stop looking for lazy options.

@nitroxien said in I no longer buy Emporium ships sets. And how how I think Rare can fix this.:

@pabio-escobar People managed before lightbulbs perfectly fine. Just get better lighting and stop looking for lazy options.

False equivalencies do not help your argument, just makes you look desperate for a real counter. Save the strawman argument for the less educated.

@mostexpendable not this again