Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running

@ottyman8687 said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

I think instead of stopping it, we need a way to encourage people to stop playing Sea of Babies and fight back.

. There's too many "pirates" who don't want to improve and would rather kill themselves so that they can come on the forums and whine about PvP and Portal Hopping.

Nah, it depends on what you're trying to do, and how much time you have to do it.
FWIW, I've successfully solo'd opposing Galleon's a few times before, doesn't mean I want to every time.
I've red run a couple times, both whilst solo, on the final Athena chest dig mission, just to get a bunch of very sweaty sweats into the corner of the map, so I can re-spawn, dig up the Athena chest and sell without the threat of a tucker.
It's a tactic.

@slarow said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

@otherfanboy said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

@slarow why should the chasing ship get any loot they didn’t sink the other crew the chasing ship failed to catch them and take the loot before hand

If a crew scuttles before they are sunk, your logic would dictate that the loot should go away also, because the chasing boat also did not sink the ship. Your logic is flawed. The runner deciding to sink themselves before they are caught (be it in the red sea or via scuttle) should not mean the pursuer loses out on the loot.

Agreed. Red Seaing is surrender

If one party surrenders the other wins.

Just destroy ships before the despawn wall.

Or better still just link the map edges because why not. If you got East of Ruby's Fall you re-appear west of Mermaids Hideaway...?

Terrible idea I know, but it could be interesting

@slarow said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

@otherfanboy said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

@slarow why should the chasing ship get any loot they didn’t sink the other crew the chasing ship failed to catch them and take the loot before hand

If a crew scuttles before they are sunk, your logic would dictate that the loot should go away also, because the chasing boat also did not sink the ship. Your logic is flawed. The runner deciding to sink themselves before they are caught (be it in the red sea or via scuttle) should not mean the pursuer loses out on the loot.

Funny how you say their logic is flawed when your reply has no logic.

A scuttling crew does so because they are bested, a crew sailing into the Red Sea hasn't necessarily given up. When they feel they stand no chance in a fight (be it they are not skilled enough or are outnumbered) then the Red Sea is their "win" state in their minds for that scenario. Scuttling is a loss state to them.

If they manage to get to the Red Sea, the pursuer has lost. They've failed tactically. They've chased the mouse into a hole like an immature kitten that doesn't know how to hunt. Get better at anticipating that goal, back off and try another tactic. Last time I checked the Red Sea isn't so close to any outpost the chased crew could go to sell easily.

@smuntface said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

I've red run a couple times, both whilst solo, on the final Athena chest dig mission, just to get a bunch of very sweaty sweats into the corner of the map, so I can re-spawn, dig up the Athena chest and sell without the threat of a tucker.
It's a tactic.

That's a really smart tactic. Notice, however, that it would still work just as well if the suggestion I made were implemented. It may even work better because they would be more likely to go and turn in the stuff they got and less likely to be on the hunt for your respawn immediately.

@realstyli said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

A scuttling crew does so because they are bested, a crew sailing into the Red Sea hasn't necessarily given up. When they feel they stand no chance in a fight (be it they are not skilled enough or are outnumbered) then the Red Sea is their "win" state in their minds for that scenario. Scuttling is a loss state to them.

I am not following the difference between

A scuttling crew does so because they are bested

and

they feel they stand no chance in a fight

The reason you red sea run is because you are admitting that you are bested, the other crew is better than you.

the Red Sea is their "win" state in their minds for that scenario. Scuttling is a loss state to them.

The running crew doesn't gain anything more by red sea running vs scuttling. The only difference between the Red Sea and Scuttling is spite. The game provides a mechanism that forces a lose-lose, and promotes spite. The mechanism shouldn't exist.

@slarow said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

@realstyli said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

A scuttling crew does so because they are bested, a crew sailing into the Red Sea hasn't necessarily given up. When they feel they stand no chance in a fight (be it they are not skilled enough or are outnumbered) then the Red Sea is their "win" state in their minds for that scenario. Scuttling is a loss state to them.

I am not following the difference between

A scuttling crew does so because they are bested

and

they feel they stand no chance in a fight

The reason you red sea run is because you are admitting that you are bested, the other crew is better than you.

This is the real reason why I feel it needs to be discouraged. I don't think it will ever be removed.

BUT we can encourage people to try and fight back, without forcing them.

Admitting defeat immediately is a sure-fire way to never get better. It is through failures and losses that you can get better.

I saw a video the other day suggesting that Silver is re-used as a PvP award, where both sides, aggressor and victim are both rewarded for participating.

So again, probably won't be removed, but we can provide incentives to try a more improvement-seeking playstyle.

So instead of making a beeline for the RedSea, spin that wheel around and shoot your cannons. You never know, you might even come out it with some more loot to add to your collection.

Surely that's better than no loot at all...right?

@slarow said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

@realstyli said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running:

A scuttling crew does so because they are bested, a crew sailing into the Red Sea hasn't necessarily given up. When they feel they stand no chance in a fight (be it they are not skilled enough or are outnumbered) then the Red Sea is their "win" state in their minds for that scenario. Scuttling is a loss state to them.

I am not following the difference between

A scuttling crew does so because they are bested

and

they feel they stand no chance in a fight

Like I said, the distinction is in their minds, sailing into the Red Sea is their way to feel like they've won. They know exactly what they are doing.

The reason you red sea run is because you are admitting that you are bested, the other crew is better than you.

Firstly, I don't sail loot into the Red Sea. Only time I sail my ship into the Red Sea is to teach immature PvPers not to chase random ships, by wasting their time when my ship has nothing on board. I can out-sail 90% of the crews on the seas, I have no need to Red Sea loot.

the Red Sea is their "win" state in their minds for that scenario. Scuttling is a loss state to them.

The running crew doesn't gain anything more by red sea running vs scuttling. The only difference between the Red Sea and Scuttling is spite. The game provides a mechanism that forces a lose-lose, and promotes spite. The mechanism shouldn't exist.

When the game has no skilled-based matchmaking and regularly pits crews of 3 or 4 against duos and solos, "spite" is sometimes the only win state. Is it ideal? No. But PvPers are not entitled to a fight or the loot off another crew without putting in some effort for it. Chasing them into the Red Sea, allowing them to get there, shows a real lack of experience.

@realstyli said in Red Sea loot should move to the edge of the Red Sea to deter Red Sea Running

When the game has no skilled-based matchmaking and regularly pits crews of 3 or 4 against duos and solos, "spite" is sometimes the only win state. Is it ideal? No. But PvPers are not entitled to a fight or the loot off another crew without putting in some effort for it. Chasing them into the Red Sea, allowing them to get there, shows a real lack of experience.

You know, I think now I might be in favour of ship size servers. If I'm a galleon, I would quite like to fight other galleons. But when the only prey on the seas is Level 1 Gold Hoarder Sloops, I don't have much choice but to chase them.

Maybe make a sloop server and then just a "big ship" server.

Could solve a few problems. In the past people (and me) have argued against it. But I think it could be ok.

On a separate note, the whole "get better at chasing" thing from everyone is nonsense.

If I'm chasing a ship who are going a maximum speed with someone at both ladders, I cannot "get better" I physically cannot catch them.

This is mainly the reason I abandon ship and do stealth plays or I pretend to be friendly to get close. Which I suppose are viable strategies