Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!

Now all that's left to do is remove the stun and decrease the sword's range from 5 meters to the real size of its blade.

@scurvywoof

Yes, the sword still stuns. And the stun is still ridiculously overpowered. Nothing changed there😭

It's not really "overpowered" if you have a Sword against it.

@grumpyw01f said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@targasbr
If I have to catch a double gunner 4 times while they can eat/reload because the sword's stun is gone then there's no point in using a sword.

You walk forward and repeatedly press the attack button.

The double gunner needs to stay away, aim, shoot, hit, pray to the gods that the hitreg works and in case you manage to reach him with the sword that clearly hits him further than it should, he still needs to eat and be lucky to have some food other than bananas.

Yeah, looks like things are getting fairer now.

@grumpyw01f said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

Except, slashing a sword makes my walk speed slower than your run speed. Meaning that without stun, I can only get one slash off until you're out of range, especially if my sword is shorter. This means that I have to catch you four times.

Take a test. Stand in front of the bell and walk backwards as far as your sword can reach and ring the bell. Once that's done, make any emote and see the distance. You will see that the sword's range is visually much wider than it should be.

Double gunning makes you a glass cannon. Great damage, no direct counter to swords. If you want to double gun, you have to live with having no direct counter to swords. A nerf like this would make it so the only viable way to PvP would be to double gun.

The damage can be high, but as I explained earlier, you need to hit the target above all else. The sword doesn't need to be aimed, just the enemy is within a radius of about 180 degrees from you and you hit, even if he is jumping over your head.

If the sword should be shortened to its actual length, then your gun's bullets need to come out of the end of the barrel so you can't hit at weird positions. Currently your bullets come out of you shoulder or behind you, I'd say that's pretty unrealistic and should be changed to fit reality.

Take the test I mentioned above. I don't want things to be unfavorable for the swordsman, but fair for all players.

@grumpyw01f said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@targasbr
When did I dispute that the sword range is longer than the size of the sword?
With the long range, my point still stands.

Here:
@grumpyw01f said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

Except, slashing a sword makes my walk speed slower than your run speed. Meaning that without stun, I can only get one slash off until you're out of range, especially if my sword is shorter.

You don't need to run if your sword is an Odachi Orimitsu.

@targasbr said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

Take a test. Stand in front of the bell and walk backwards as far as your sword can reach and ring the bell. Once that's done, make any emote and see the distance. You will see that the sword's range is visually much wider than it should be.

This test should be done with a stationary player and not a static object, because I wouldn't trust that the client side hit effects match with the server side hit detection at all.

@d3adst1ck said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@targasbr said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

Take a test. Stand in front of the bell and walk backwards as far as your sword can reach and ring the bell. Once that's done, make any emote and see the distance. You will see that the sword's range is visually much wider than it should be.

This test should be done with a stationary player and not a static object, because I wouldn't trust that the client side hit effects match with the server side hit detection at all.

I did this same test with a player, not just once, but several times. The bell is just a simple way of testing, as well as testing the hitreg by shooting the enemy's arm while he is aiming a pistol.

@targasbr said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

I did this same test with a player, not just once, but several times. The bell is just a simple way of testing, as well as testing the hitreg by shooting the enemy's arm while he is aiming a pistol.

Please post video of it if you have it, because I have never seen anyone bother to show that as a test - it's always against a static object which is not the same thing at all.

@grumpyw01f said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

How was that me saying that the sword slash range is the exact length of the weapon? I said "especially if the sword is shorter," which makes it obvious that my example was referring to a long sword as you describe. Not to mention, I'm used to the current length of the sword, I'm thinking about the scenario in my head and it's not like I'm thinking of a shorter sword than what I'm used to using in the game.

When you slash a sword, you move slower than you can walk. Do you seriously think that you can't run out of range before the second slash connects? I guess I could be wrong if you start the encounter out at the closest range possible, then you might be able to get 2 slashes off on the target. But, we're talking about a double gunner running away, a scenario in which I will probably hit with the end of the sword on the first hit. In that scenario, the initial one that I described, there is no chance that I could get more than one hit without a stun.

More and more I'm sure you've never battled another player inside a sloop or brigantine.

@d3adst1ck said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@targasbr said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

I did this same test with a player, not just once, but several times. The bell is just a simple way of testing, as well as testing the hitreg by shooting the enemy's arm while he is aiming a pistol.

Please post video of it if you have it, because I have never seen anyone bother to show that as a test - it's always against a static object which is not the same thing at all.

Kind of hard to get into the game just to record this, you can do this test yourself.

@grumpyw01f said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@d3adst1ck said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@targasbr said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

I did this same test with a player, not just once, but several times. The bell is just a simple way of testing, as well as testing the hitreg by shooting the enemy's arm while he is aiming a pistol.

Please post video of it if you have it, because I have never seen anyone bother to show that as a test - it's always against a static object which is not the same thing at all.

@targasbr
Plus, the craning of the back, the extension of the arm, and the actual length of the sword all differ from the emotes position. It's like looking at how hitstun cancels animations in fighting games and making that the basis for labelling something as "too much range." It's easy to label a sword as having too much range when you don't take those things into account.
Plus, characters have hurtboxes that are all the same, making it so the heaviest pirates aren't left out.

For what I mean by "actual length of the sword," I mean what the game sees. Since there's no advantage for one cosmetic over another, longer swords like the Ferryman cutlass or the black dog cutlass have the same hitbox as smaller swords like the sword of souls. So in reality, some swords are already supposed to hit for longer than the sword length, because we need to preserve cosmetic equality.

So, in order to make a real case for a sword being too long, here is what is required:
Take the longest sword you can find in the game, then attack a very large player while a third player records the action. Then a case could be made against sword range, while taking into account extra range added for the possibility of longer-looking swords in the future.

I don't think the sword is as over-ranged as you make it out to be. Even then the sword needs a stun to be viable.

The emote is just to give you an idea of ​​how far away you are from the target. You can do the same test by asking a friend of your crew to do this, you don't necessarily need the emote.

No one is talking about the cosmetics, it's the fact that the sword hits farther than it really should even if you're holding the biggest sword in the game. I've seen many cases where the player is in a sloop near the internal handrail of the stairs that lead to the upper deck and hits a player who is a meter away falling into the water outside the sloop.

@grumpyw01f said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@targasbr
Your example could easily be hitreg. The things I said in that post were about testing the true length of a sword in a way that makes sure the real distance is seen.

Hitreg is certainly part of it, but when it's something that becomes frequent and happens to both stationary and moving targets, it's time to look for a solution. It's impossible to fight swords in small spaces, and let's face it, it should be the opposite, because the sword shouldn't go through everything around like a lightsaber.

you don't necessarily need the emote.

I understand but in videos making fun of sword length such as Falcore's they use an emote to show their distance. That's the only way to see yourself, for sure, but the point is that an emote looks different than the attack animation. A crewmate watching is preferable.

The emote was just an example, the same test can be done by a friend while you watch. The result is the same.

@targasbr said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@d3adst1ck said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

@targasbr said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

I did this same test with a player, not just once, but several times. The bell is just a simple way of testing, as well as testing the hitreg by shooting the enemy's arm while he is aiming a pistol.

Please post video of it if you have it, because I have never seen anyone bother to show that as a test - it's always against a static object which is not the same thing at all.

Kind of hard to get into the game just to record this, you can do this test yourself.

I would if I had the time to do so, that's what I was asking; it sounded like you had done the test and I was hoping there was video.

If anyone else is free and has the time/ability to record this I would test it this way:

• Start far away from static object and swing. Move closer as little as possible until the client is showing the hit effects (sparks/wood splinters). Try to inch backwards and forwards to get as close as possible to the maximum distance.
• Have a second player stand parallel to the object and perform the test again. Stop when the player takes damage. Try to get the same reference points in the background to get an accurate measure of distance.

Preferably you would want to have a 3rd party doing the recording and measurement to make sure there is no difference between your position and how the emote is displaying your position.

@d3adst1ck said in Thank You Rare for the ADS fix versus swords!:

I would if I had the time to do so, that's what I was asking; it sounded like you had done the test and I was hoping there was video.
If anyone else is free and has the time/ability to record this I would test it this way:

• Start far away from static object and swing. Move closer as little as possible until the client is showing the hit effects (sparks/wood splinters). Try to inch backwards and forwards to get as close as possible to the maximum distance.
• Have a second player stand parallel to the object and perform the test again. Stop when the player takes damage. Try to get the same reference points in the background to get an accurate measure of distance.

Preferably you would want to have a 3rd party doing the recording and measurement to make sure there is no difference between your position and how the emote is displaying your position.

Unfortunately I don't have it on video, it's not something I would record because I don't see any use for it.