I feel the Brig speed needs to be brought back inline with the other ships. As it stands now the Brig completely controls the narrative around naval battles with sloops and galleons for that matter. A Brig can run without fear of ever being caught as well as chase and know they will catch up without issue. This feels like a rather large unbalance in gameplay.
Slow Down The Brig
@wsurftvveeds are you saying that the Brig isn't fast I'm just not working my sails correctly? If so that is just wrong. Thanks though.
A Brig can run without fear of ever being caught
These statements are also true:
- A Sloop can run without fear of ever being caught
- A Galleon can run without fear of ever being caught
Getting away from another ship is about knowledge of speeds in wind. You're never going to catch someone if they sail perfectly.
Every ship has its strengths and weaknesses, and though I agree that the brig has some of the best speeds, there's nothing wrong with the way it is balanced.
@joeyhooslefudge
I don't like playing this card, but I have a lot of chasing experience. The sloop is faster in headwind. Ask anyone experienced and they'll tell you that. It's not just my idea, it's true.Here's the proof: https://youtu.be/XaHT0ZLeMdU
If your post was sparked by an experience where a brig caught up to you, it's your fault.
@joeyhooslefudge
Seemed like sarcasm after the chart clearly stated that fact. Not to mention the condescending "chief."Done the math before specifically looking at scenario in which brig is chasing a fleeing sloop.
I'll let everyone come to their own conclusions.Edit:
Thanks @streichkase for pointing out that the video m/s is off by a factor of 10 per the video description so please adjust my math below accordingly. The conclusions regarding time to close distance is still accurate.
First, assumptions:
A sloop running from a brig will optimally stay against the wind at all times until they absolutely can't. This could be because they are 1) at the edge of the map, 2) must go around an island, 3) are looking to turn in at an outpost that is not directly against the wind, or 4) has a strategic reason for going a different direction such as island cover, using fort cannons, etc.
Whatever the reason, it is unreasonable to expect that sloops can run "forever" against the wind because even if the wind changes in their favor forever, eventually the distance between the ships will allow the brig to take a different route than the sloop which will always benefit them (i.e. will be a crosswind), or will be shorter in distance (cut off the sloop diagonally).Now let's compare the speed data widely cited from youtube guides. If you take issue with the speed data in this source, you are free to cite your own research or alternative source, and I will investigate.
Now for the elementary math:
Assume a sloop is running against the wind from a brig with both ships sailing perfectly. According to the source above, the speeds of the ships and distance traveled over a 20 minute period is as below:
In 20 minutes the sloop can create a 60m gap sailing perfectly into the wind and assuming that the wind remains constant in one direction. This also assumes the sloop does not need to go around any obstacles which would change the relative wind direction to the ship. In other words, these are ideal conditions.
How long does it take the brig to close the 60m gap under the next most likely condition (close reach)? This scenario is second most likely since the sloop will continue to move against the wind to resume fleeing, but is unable to for any of the 4 reasons I mention above.
We need to solve for X, which is the time in seconds. Since both times are the same, we can put these in one equation.
1.53x – 1.26x = 60 meters
0.27x = 60 meters
x = 222.22 seconds
x = 3.7 minutesThe brig is able to close a gap which took 20 minutes to create with 3.7 minutes of perfect sailing in slightly more favorable wind conditions (close reach).
In conditions most favorable to the brig, Beam Reach (cross wind from behind), the brig's speed is 2.3m/s and the sloop's is 1.53m/s.
Solving for x again:
2.3x - 1.53x = 60 meters
0.77x = 60 meters
x = 77.92 seconds
x = 1.3 minutesAgain, these scenarios only accounts for speed. There are a lot of other factors that determine whether a ship will be caught such as juking and maneuverability around terrain, but the math above is assuming both crews are equally skilled.
Summary of findings:
A sloop running perfectly against wind for 20 minutes can be caught within 3.7 minutes if the achievable wind condition for the sloop changes even slightly away from headwind.Again, I will let you draw your own conclusions as to whether you think this discrepancy is fair or not. Also open to second opinions on the math.
I LOVE the nerd science here. This is awesome.
In summation, it's not the Brig that needs a nerf.
It's actually the Sloop that needs a buff on speed into any sort of headwind....even cross-headwind.
@calicorsaircat
Every ship, when running, is going to hit a wall and have to turn, losing time. I don't think brig v. sloop in this situation is good, because really the same can be said for other scenarios.@calicorsaircat Now this is how balance proposals should be done! I don't see how its balanced that a sloop can only gain 60m in 20 minutes on a ship in its ideal conditions which is only 1 wind direction but the Brig in its own ideal wind conditions in 5 minutes would pull 231 meters on the Sloop. Calculated by 2.3m - 1.53 = 0.77. 300 seconds * 0.77m = 231m. The Brigs ideal wind conditions can be from 2 directions of the ship also so a turn to follow wind or change direction has a miniscule effect on its ability to flee.
I sail both these ships and the reality is that the sloop has no ability to escape a determined Brig with a solid crew on it. On the other hand a Sloop will not catch a Brig that wants to flee or a Galleon for that matter. Simple solution; buff to the sloops headwind speed with direct headwind and a small buff to close reach wind direction.
@calicorsaircat Math is correct, but you forgot a factor of 10 for the ship speeds (look at the video description). So you gain 600 m in 20 min, not 60. ^^
@lem0n-curry said in Slow Down The Brig:
IMHO the difference in speed is too much against the sloop, while it's faster in headwind it's only by a bit. The differences in other winds favour the brig an galleon way way more..
I outran a fully-crewed Reaper galleon today for 20+ minutes in my duo sloop doing nothing but sailing against the wind and doing constant anchor/harpoon turns with my crewmate in order to frustrate them before they finally gave up the chase for an easier to catch brigantine. 😅
Speed is important, but the amount of time it takes to coordinate a turn with your crew while maintaining said speed as much as possible while constantly forcing the opposition to readjust and lose their own time, speed, and patience is also a factor that should not be ignored. How long does it take each ship to execute a 45°, 90°, 180°, 270°, 360° turn with sails, harpoon, and capstan? How much time do other ships lose after noticing and having to compensate themselves? What can a ship in pursuit do besides turning? Are they at a suitable angle/distance to cannon over for a board attempt or use a chainshot/cursed cannonball? 🤔
@streichkase Makes sense. I thought the m/s were too slow in the video given how little 60m is, but I am sort of glad I missed it because it helps when the screenshots match the math.
@galactic-geek said in Slow Down The Brig:
@lem0n-curry said in Slow Down The Brig:
IMHO the difference in speed is too much against the sloop, while it's faster in headwind it's only by a bit. The differences in other winds favour the brig an galleon way way more..
I outran a fully-crewed Reaper galleon today for 20+ minutes in my duo sloop doing nothing but sailing against the wind and doing constant anchor/harpoon turns with my crewmate in order to frustrate them before they finally gave up the chase for an easier to catch brigantine. 😅
Speed is important, but the amount of time it takes to coordinate a turn with your crew while maintaining said speed as much as possible while constantly forcing the opposition to readjust and lose their own time, speed, and patience is also a factor that should not be ignored. How long does it take each ship to execute a 45°, 90°, 180°, 270°, 360° turn with sails, harpoon, and capstan? How much time do other ships lose after noticing and having to compensate themselves? What can a ship in pursuit do besides turning? Are they at a suitable angle/distance to cannon over for a board attempt or use a chainshot/cursed cannonball? 🤔
Oh you can have long chases in a sloop and a chase is more than just turn into headwind with sails set to stupid.
One mistake and it may be over very quick though - a nice challenge, but the sloop draws more often than not the short straw.
Mind you, not suggesting the sloop should have the same difference in speed as a brig has in their best direction - just a minor change in favour of the sloop. @Calicorsaircat demonstrated above that the distance of 20 minutes of headwind can be gone in under 4 minutes. Most encounters will have it more of 10 minutes and 2 minutes or just getting out of reach and within half a minute of a slight mistake and you'll have a broadside.
Have it 20 minutes vs 6-8 or so (using above example).Yes the brig overall is the fastest ship in the game, however, this is balanced by the fact it is the easiest to sink. All holes in a brig are impactful unlike a sloop and gally with 2 different floors. Overall lowering the speed of the brig would require and complete revamp of the ship balancing system. The brigs overall speed is its main strength.
@nitroxien said in Slow Down The Brig:
Yes the brig overall is the fastest ship in the game, however, this is balanced by the fact it is the easiest to sink. All holes in a brig are impactful unlike a sloop and gally with 2 different floors. Overall lowering the speed of the brig would require and complete revamp of the ship balancing system. The brigs overall speed is its main strength.
please a single hole in a sloop will sink it regardless of level. Brigs have the advantage of being able to bail from a single level where you can not bail the bottom of a sloop without traversing to the map table level and carefully aiming your bucket throw. stand on the brig stairs and you can bail with no running needed.
@leftypirate99 But look at the # of holes a brig can take. And they only have one level. Brigs can get out of hand SUPER fast if a crew is not on top of their repairs.
The sloop is a little tank aside from its mast. Also, bail your sloop from the stairs or the window. No need to go back by the map table IMO.
@leftypirate99 said in Slow Down The Brig:
please a single hole in a sloop will sink it regardless of level. Brigs have the advantage of being able to bail from a single level where you can not bail the bottom of a sloop without traversing to the map table level and carefully aiming your bucket throw. stand on the brig stairs and you can bail with no running needed.
Not actually so. I bail the water out my sloop's window with relative ease. Plus you don't actually need to run around the map table to get a good heave to toss the water out of the ship. My recommendation is to try experimenting with these things and find that better ideal bucket toss. Once you get accustomed to tossing the water out the window you'll wonder why you weren't doing that all along. :)
@leftypirate99 ... you can solo bail and repair a fully destroyed sloop... the sloop is the tankiest ship in the game.
@aerotsune said in Slow Down The Brig:
@leftypirate99 said in Slow Down The Brig:
please a single hole in a sloop will sink it regardless of level. Brigs have the advantage of being able to bail from a single level where you can not bail the bottom of a sloop without traversing to the map table level and carefully aiming your bucket throw. stand on the brig stairs and you can bail with no running needed.
Not actually so. I bail the water out my sloop's window with relative ease. Plus you don't actually need to run around the map table to get a good heave to toss the water out of the ship. My recommendation is to try experimenting with these things and find that better ideal bucket toss. Once you get accustomed to tossing the water out the window you'll wonder why you weren't doing that all along. :)
you can not stand at the bottom of the stairs and bail the sloop you must traverse the stairs to bail the lower level. no you do not need to navigate the map table but you cant bucket the lower level from the lower level, you must get to the map table level.
all of this commentary was to refute that the brig is so fragile that one hole will sink it. both the brig and sloop are in the same situation except the brig is easier to bail than the sloop.
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