Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.

Called balance.

What galleon lacks is speed and turning power. Brig is between while sloop has that

What one lacks the other powers on.
And just because a galleon has four cannons doesn’t mean the whole crew will use them against another player, seriously. One or two will be in the water trying to board, one on the cannons while the other steers the ship or repairs.

Brig is between the two so not much can be said about this ship.

Also. A single sloop with one cannon. Can destroy a galleon. How do? Turning speed. Cannon barrel closer to cannons.
And come on, it’s more about the curse balls. If you blast a galleon with peace ball first, you have advantage. Don’t forget the one that lowers the ship into the water. (Forgot name)

Again. Majority of players just board other ships with little to any cannon firing.

@ajm123 said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

Gallys need to have competent crews to maneuver well. Believe me if you got 2 players that do know what they are doing and 2 who don't the gally will be in big trouble at times.

Brigs while are fast and turn well but sink pretty easy tbh. You can't miss.

The sloop though is a tank . Imo feel run 2 man sloop is the most feared ship in the game. Impossible to board if they are good and impossible to out turn.

Truth. I personally never want to fight agaisnt a sloop unless we catch it stopped at an island.

The Sloop is the most powerful ship. The Galleon's only notable strength over the Sloop is the firepower. Give more firepower to the Sloop and there is really no reason to run Galleons unless you are playing in a full group of four.

The Brig is already in this situation as the weakest ship. There is no benefit of using the Brig over the Galleon or Sloop right now unless you exactly are only playing in a group of three players... Do you really want to buff the Sloop? Sure, you would be buffing the Brig as well but the Brig's problems isn't the lack of cannons... It's A LOT of other issues.

@odyssee-mit-tee said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

Time for another rant after quite some time! Ahhh I can't wait!
Inspired and triggered by THIS topic here!

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And never forget the wierd imbalance of existing cannons on the already official ships.
Even if the Galleon was planned as a 5 Crewmember type ship first.
Even then the cannon count does 'not' match and is simply unfair!

• Galleon: 4 cannons on each side. The whole Crew can fire at once. 100% Crew firepower
• Brigantine: with only two cannons on each side, it has only 2/3 or 66% Crew firepower
• Sloop: with only one cannon on each side, it has only 1/2 or 50% Crew firepower

The smaller the ship gets, the worse the lack in comparable firepower becomes.
It is so unfair how much more powerful a Galleon becomes with a Crew that knows what it is doing and stays vigilant, in comparisation to other ships.

As Sloop & even as Brig player, you are forced to play it very defensively if the taller Ship comes for you and always look for that special one advantage, or else you are simply at a disadvantage in an open direct confrontation.

In the last weeks & months the whine topics about how others just sail into the red Sea, aka the Shroud, has increased greatly once more.
Let me just say, I do not believe that the most of them were Galleons.

AND IT IS JUST UNFAIR AND IT STAYS UNFAIR!
The Galleon is the only ship which's middle-deck is actively functioning AS AN ARMOR that takes holes that guard the lower deck, which do only take water unexpectedly with a ballast-ball.
And how often does a Galleon gets hit with one of the rarest naval combat tools?

Galleons are even faster than Brigantines if the wind comes straight from the back!
Brigantines are only faster if the wind comes from the side into the sails!
And Sloops have nothing they can gloriously kraken-suck (!) and are forced to flee into the wind and hope it allows them at least a few more sell-in's at nicely alligning outposts, before the ultimate confrontation.

IT IS SO UNFAIR how only the Sloop, which has the most crippled crew-firepower proportion - must sail so much slower and has so much less to work with.

" Oh but the manueverability though! "
° Reminds me that bigger ships also profit so much more from the harpoons as the Sloop!
° And bigger Ships too can anchor-turn you know!

Or do not even get me started how often one is shot off from the wheel-plattform of the sloop!
Its just frustrating! I will never not belief that the most people comitting seppeku by Shroud are not Sloops!

Assuming all members are equally skilled this isn't a bad upgrade suggestion. Needs extensive testing in the Insider to see if it would be viable though but I like the idea to upgrade.

@odyssee-mit-tee

Solo brig player here…I have lost count how many galleons I have sunk by myself and never left my ship.

You won't find many supportive of sloop buffs here.

Been along time advocate for sloop buffs but ultimately people just don't care that the sloop is terrible in practice so long as they can defend it on paper. Id say buffs sloop top speed as top priority, mostly for QOL but also to bring it more in line with other ship speeds. A second cannon wouldn't be the worst idea either, which id happily trade for making the sloop sink a bit faster.

The massive disadvantage to only have 1 potential boarder / ladder guarded while someone is on wheel or cannons is nowhere worth the "maneuverability" especially when as you said, you get one cannon. Sure the sloop leaves the crew more available as there is less to do, but in combat, most competent crews angle and raise sails before the fight.

Against a gally you also need to land 3 chain shots to immobilize, which on a sloop can take some time with 1 cannon. Even if they were coming straight at you, they would ram and board you before you got 3 chainshots to down all masts especially because the dead mast sometimes blocks subsequent shots, and you would die from the ramming damage and spawn kill. Ultimately, getting your single mast downed on a sloop even temporarily is a death sentence because it takes 2 people to quickly catch and repair, meaning a blunderbuss to your back. Brigs and gallys can afford to leave one mast downed because they can continue moving, have an extra person or 2 to continue to guard ladders, both making it more difficult to board.

I think it would be more fair if it took two people on brigs and gallys to catch and raise a mast. Sure its slower to raise, but as I point out above thats not really the problem.

People are incredibly naive to think sloop are balanced against the larger two ships. Sure you can make some great plays in a sloop, but with a competent crew, sloops aren't even a challenge anymore in naval combat

All things being equal (skill and supplies), a solo sloop is probably going to lose against any crew that has a higher number of players.

A sloop's biggest chance of winning against larger ships occurs when it effectively uses all of the options available to it, and is well stocked with cursed cannons. Even then, it's not a guarantee, nor should it be.

Sea of Thieves favours players who work as a crew. Solo slooping is for dread pirates, and if you are, then great! If you aren't, then it's time to brush up on interpersonal skills and get a crew who wants to sail with you.

I play solo as well as in crews, and I can tell you that there are always situations where you'd wish you had the maneuverability of a sloop, or an extra person on a cannon. It makes you appreciate that certain ships favour certain situations.

However, most of the time our losses come down to player error, and the more people there are in a crew, then the wider that bandwidth for error, and correction.

The sloop is fine. It does not need to be exactly on par with the other ships nor does anyone in this forum have data to prove that it is far off. In addition to that, there are a plethora of players that are below the skill level for me to feel like I need to complain about balance at this time.

@odyssee-mit-tee said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

And it is happening again.
Watching Pace22 right now and whenever he is encountering a Sloop, its a massacre.

Ironically Galleons have so many airhead Crews on them that they too put up relatively pitiful fights.
The best battles Pace22 has are against Brigantines I feel.
But still, Sloops are just boring butchering. But yeah they are "so stroooooong".
Pffffffff. Not.

It is just so unfair that from only 'half the size' of a Galleon, not even both dudes can shoot together from the ship in the same direction.

Pace (and his crew) are some of the most skilled players in this entire game. using them as an example is not helping your case at all. This game is skill-based at its core, so if course Pace's crew will win nearly every encounter.

@odyssee-mit-tee i find it funny how you whine over virtual ships and that they have less cannons ob some then on others but for real my man i have read your post and you should real reconsider with who and how you play this game because you say galleon is strong and i agree it can be strong if the crew knows what they are doing then a galleon can be deadly but i gonna be dead honest with you the galleon is the weakest ship in the game and here is why my man

on a sloop you have 2 people one can repair and bail if needed and the other one can do canons and steering (you can board with a sloop but its best to have the fight in your favor before doing so)

on the brig you can send a boarder over to raise some hell one on cannons and steering(or both if the fight allows it to) and on repairing if need to

On a galleon 2 for repair because 2 decks have to be repaired because when the water hits mid your pretty much done for and the repair guys have to bail as well one on steering because the galleon has the turn of a snail with insert handicap here and one on cannons

O and on your statment ove the curesd balls you rarely need them and like i stateded earlier is one boarder to cause hell is enough to bring her down under the cold waves and sometimes if your lucky you dont even have to fight you just bring them a present like a big red keg its a very fun sight when it goes of whahaha but for real my dude i suggest play with all ships for a month or 2 and them come back to rant about the balanced and for my own opinion i think the brig is the best ship is the game because i play it a lot

Ill be waiting for you reply

@odyssee-mit-tee said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

And it is happening again.
Watching Pace22 right now and whenever he is encountering a Sloop, its a massacre.

Ironically Galleons have so many airhead Crews on them that they too put up relatively pitiful fights.
The best battles Pace22 has are against Brigantines I feel.
But still, Sloops are just boring butchering. But yeah they are "so stroooooong".
Pffffffff. Not.

It is just so unfair that from only 'half the size' of a Galleon, not even both dudes can shoot together from the ship in the same direction.

As @augspacussh just said, Pace is one of the most skilled players in the game. Don't think that if you put yourself on a galley you would have even a splinter of a chance against him.

However, in the sloop category, take a look at Blurbs, or Phuzzy, or Flotsam. All incredible players with solid temperaments and often they are solo.

I think the brigantine is ok but the sloop is a very weak ship. One chain shot and you’re done for. It’s also extremely slow. In my opinion I would like to see the sloop mast need two chain shots to disable it since the brig needs two and the galleon needs three to be fully disabled. I would also like to see a slight speed increase to the sloop, its ungodly slow, barely faster than a rowboat. You don’t have to tell me this will never happen, I already know.

@odyssee-mit-tee

@danbeardluff said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

Giving the galleon a little more firepower is the only way to keep it effective imo. It's slow and clunky and takes a lot more crew organization to use properly. Most the time it's not used to its full potential. Ideally you want to line it up so you can use all 4 cannons at once, but what usually happens is you've got one on helm, one on cannons, and 2 doing lord knows what.

You don't need a change of the ship, you need a change in crew 😁.

@odyssee-mit-tee said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

For all the backtalkers: Have the opinion of A COMPLETE PRO GAMER WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT.
The last quick words of Pace on a stream about how the Sloop just can't.

Get owned sloop hater forum!
A true peak-skill Lord says how it is!

I don't think we should change the sloop just in case you encounter Pace & his crew. Probably 99% of Galleon crews will go down against them as well.

@odyssee-mit-tee

Doesn't matter, it will never matter what you showcase when there is a Crew of Pro's on a Sloop rocking the life out of bigger Ships full of Noobs.

So you agree? Skill is more important than cannon count?
By the way, the other person in my crew in that clip is my sister, who hasn't played more than 10 sessions of Sea of Thieves. What a Pro!

Beating a galleon as a sloop usually requires a skill advantage, yes, but it's not going to get fixed by adding another cannon. Adding more cannons isn't going to change the fact that if the cannon spot on the sloop gets continuously shot at, you aren't firing back, just fixing.

Your Pace clip is correct, but against another skilled crew... and in that case no amount of extra cannons on the sloop will fix the issue. The only good it will do is make the sloop more powerful when it's already at the advantage. And, getting in the advantage is what most people who are replying here are talking about, is it not? Make it easier for the sloop to get in advantage, then you'll be giving the sloop a real buff. I see it as good right now, though. It's a battle of Maneuverability vs. Organization. If both crews are evenly matched, more than often the sloop eats it. But this isn't even factoring in all the extraneous things that could affect the battle.

If you disagree, tell my why an extra cannon will stop the sloop from getting overwhelmed by enemy cannons. Or how it will stop chainshots from hitting the mast (not unrecoverable but very bad). Or how it will stop you from getting overwhelmed by boarders. Most of the sloop's problems with fighting galleons do not get resolved by adding another cannon to each side.

@odyssee-mit-tee

'The advantage' you talk about can be forced with a second cannon, simply by being able to shoot more cannonballs, maybe cursed cannonballs who disable the ability of the Crew to fire back.

You can shoot cursed cannonballs to create an advantage with one cannon.

And even without cursed shots, maybe it is the second cannons hits that will push the cannoneers of the bigger ships off instead and enable a Sloop to escape at least another round of trading?

So 2 cannons are gonna beat 4? If so, then I think skill is still the deciding factor for the win of the encounter. Plus, by the dimensions of the sloop, it will still only require 1 cannon to deny both sloop cannoneers. As I said, another cannon is not going to bridge the gap of combat effectiveness between a pro sloop and a pro galleon at any rate, and it especially won't help the players who constantly make bad battle decisions. If you make a bad battle decision against a galleon (as a sloop) most likely you are dead as an inexperienced player.

@burnbacon said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

Called balance.

What galleon lacks is speed and turning power. Brig is between while sloop has that

What one lacks the other powers on.
And just because a galleon has four cannons doesn’t mean the whole crew will use them against another player, seriously. One or two will be in the water trying to board, one on the cannons while the other steers the ship or repairs.

Brig is between the two so not much can be said about this ship.

Also. A single sloop with one cannon. Can destroy a galleon. How do? Turning speed. Cannon barrel closer to cannons.
And come on, it’s more about the curse balls. If you blast a galleon with peace ball first, you have advantage. Don’t forget the one that lowers the ship into the water. (Forgot name)

Again. Majority of players just board other ships with little to any cannon firing.

Big ships are also MASSIVE targets, far easier to hit. Which means one of those galleon crew members is likely going to be off repairing.

This game has such brilliantly balanced naval combat, that it baffles my mind why so many people are afraid of it. Or will go into the Red Sea, out of spite, in order to avoid it... There is no other game like it in the world, and people actively choose to not participate and throw out their own hard work in the process.
You could write a thesis on the psychological underpinnings of this phenomenon alone.

@mostexpendable said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

@burnbacon said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

Called balance.

What galleon lacks is speed and turning power. Brig is between while sloop has that

What one lacks the other powers on.
And just because a galleon has four cannons doesn’t mean the whole crew will use them against another player, seriously. One or two will be in the water trying to board, one on the cannons while the other steers the ship or repairs.

Brig is between the two so not much can be said about this ship.

Also. A single sloop with one cannon. Can destroy a galleon. How do? Turning speed. Cannon barrel closer to cannons.
And come on, it’s more about the curse balls. If you blast a galleon with peace ball first, you have advantage. Don’t forget the one that lowers the ship into the water. (Forgot name)

Again. Majority of players just board other ships with little to any cannon firing.

Big ships are also MASSIVE targets, far easier to hit. Which means one of those galleon crew members is likely going to be off repairing.

This game has such brilliantly balanced naval combat, that it baffles my mind why so many people are afraid of it. Or will go into the Red Sea, out of spite, in order to avoid it... There is no other game like it in the world, and people actively choose to not participate and throw out their own hard work in the process.
You could write a thesis on the psychological underpinnings of this phenomenon alone.

Bredrin.