PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.

  • So I got on this week after a 6 month break. I love a lot of the new content in the game: dogs and cats, new shanties and a way to pick them, new levels and rewards for all factions!

    I am so close to Pirate Legend (49 goldhoarders, 48 merchants, 50 souls), so I figured I'd do some emissary flag grinding and level up my remaining levels in Merchant. Just get it over with ya know?

    I played 3 days this week, with 3-4 hour grinds to get to level 5 merchant emissary. And without fail all 3 days, when I finally get the emissary quests at the end, I get attacked and sunk by reaper faction or simply bored players.

    The first day I wrote it off as part of the game, accepted that I got at least a little xp, and logged.
    The second day I made it to lvl 5 and was instantly targetted by a lvl 5 reaper ship. OK, bad luck. Turned in my flag before being able to do the lvl 5 quests again... Kind of disheartening, but fine.
    The third day, I sat in a port for 20 minutes watching another reaper lvl 5 on the map until they logged. So I begin the lvl 5 emissary quests and out of nowhere a PL galleon shows up and sinks me as soon as I take the voyage and start loading up, not allowing me to complete the quests that would actually give me good reputation xp... We begged in text and voice chat to be left alone, we flew the alliance flag... we did everything we could to try and explain how we simply didn't want to do this AGAIN... No response: Not a word, just blew our ship to smithereens and killed us...

    OK, this sucks. I'm not doing merchant emissary because it's a fun thing to do. The quests are super boring fetch quests. I literally just want to get to lvl 50 and be done with it.

    I have spent around 12 hours this week in-game for about a lvl and a half in rep. That's simply ridiculous. I started at 47 and change and am not even 49 yet...

    The last time I quit the game was because my friends and I did Fort of the Damned only to be swarmed by players once we completed it who killed, sunk us and took everything. I know it's a part of the game, but the pvp is completely out of control. It is so difficult to get any end-game PVE content done...

    And now I'm reading that when we finally do get private servers we won't even be able to do PVE content for rep or gold... WHY?!

    I'm really unhappy with the state of the game. I REALLY want to like it, but I can't get anything done or make any progress because bored players are always looking to attack other people.

    So, because I don't want to complain without offering some solutions, here's what I think should happen:

    1. Make turning in a lvl 5 flag worth a substantial amount of rep. Right now turning in the lvl 5 is pretty pathetic. So you grind to get there, and then you get engaged by reapers bc you're a high value flag, and so you turn in the flag to at least get SOMETHING, but it's almost worthless. This sucks. It's insult to the injury of not being able to do the emissary quests because you are targetted for PVP.
    2. Make private servers PVE with rep and gold. Just give PVE players what they want... Please. A lot of players don't care about PVP at all and just want to play the game with their friends and enjoy the world and lore. Why is this such a problem?
    3. Athena leveling got nerfed since I last played. I ran some Athena quests with my PL friend on the first day back and it took us 3 (non-ashen) voyages to get to lvl 5 and then we had to turn in because we were targetted by reapers. Almost no return for our time-investment because again, the lvl 5 flag being turned in was essentially worthless.

    I'm sorry, but the time investment required for the return is simply not worth it.
    I love the game, and I like that PVP is a part of it, but 3 out of 4 days that I've spent my WHOLE AFTERNOON playing have been totally wasted by players with nothing better to do than ruin someone else's day.

    This is especially frustrating when I play very differently from people like that. The same day, as we were leveling our flag we came across a new player in over his head trying to take on one of Ashenhearts liutenants. We tried to help him, though it was fruitless. Just trying to channel my inner Mr Rogers... unlike everyone else it seems.

    This does not motivate me to keep trying, in fact I'm so turned off by all of it I think I'm going to shelve the game again until things are different.

    I know this post will get swarmed by comments like: 'Git gud n00b' or 'That's just part of the game, deal with it.'
    But I'm not talking to the community here. I'm trying to talk to Rare, so I hope someone there sees this post.

    I don't want to play this game anymore as it is right now, and that sucks because I really like it. Just not like this.

    Anyways, thanks for coming to my TED talk. Now please tear me and each other apart in the comments, as is tradition.

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  • Persistence pays off

    I get sunk on a regular basis as a experienced player sometimes 2 or 3 times a day as a solo slooper and I also sell massive amounts of loot as a level 5 reaper and all the rest of them
    without much trouble at all

    If you put in the time and learn from your mistakes the losses are nothing compared to the loot sold and the adventure enjoyed.

  • @okamiknux

    Low key, I feel pretty similar. I'm not particularly great at pvp stuff, and while I enjoy it most of the time, having everyone in their own discords and silently blowing up anyone who comes their way isn't really that interesting to me.

    I haven't had an interesting interaction with other players for months now, and it's pretty rough out there. I think you have good solutions. Maybe they could make grinding in private servers even grindier to encou8rage people to play on the open server, and only use it as a last resort if they're getting too frustrated, as it seems you are now.

    It's better to give players options, rather than losing players altogether, no?

  • @okamiknux Wait! What exactly do you think the emissary system is? Do you realize it was designed to increase opportunities for PvP in return for increased rewards for players who choose to participate in it? It was put in as a response to people requesting a reason to hunt and sink other ships, players asking for a ranking system, and a bounty system that shows everyone on the server the location of ship hunters. If you keep getting sunk by reapers then you are not paying attention to your map. As soon as a ship votes to join the reapers, their location is lit up on the map for everyone on the server to see, as well as their current level. As soon as they hit level 5 they can see the location of every ship that is flying an emissary flag. You are opting into a system designed to promote PvP and then complaining about the PvP. Quit flying the flag (any emissary flag) and you’ll decrease the PvP you experience. You are making yourself prey when you are flying that flag.

    Also, you are not meant to make a fortune off turning in your own emissary flag. The incentive is to keep it up and enjoy the gold and reputation boost in return for flying it at increased risk of having it stolen from you. They want you to want keep it flying as long as possible so that the reapers have an added incentive to fight you. You can’t offer “fixes” to a system when you don’t even understand what its purpose is. Emissaries were not designed for more passive players. You are trying to turn into some kind of weird PvE journey.

  • You chose to put that target on your back yourself. Higher rewards, higher risks.

    We want players to experience the thrill of a player ship versus another player ship in battle. Turning the chance of these encounters off completely has never felt like Sea of Thieves, but the Emissaries provide that opt-in experience whereby you can take on more risk and literally be a potential target, with the potential rewards being so much greater. Crucially, we felt it was important for players to still be able to play the game as it is today before the addition of Emissaries. This is why you can still progress through the expanded level progress without being an Emissary. We want to encourage it, but you don’t have to and are also able to choose based on the session you’re in.

    This is all very deliberate. Emissaries will progress faster, but you are a target to others. Sometimes fate will be in your favour and sometimes it won’t. This is Sea of Thieves.

    • First Day, sounds good you live and learned.
    • Second Day, You do know...once you reach grade 5, you can accept the reward voyages and lower your flag and Keep the voyages? Until they are completed. Thus removing you from the Reapers who look for Emissaries and appear on map.
    • Third Day, Good so far. You can still complete the quest...you accept the voyage right? All you did was lose a ship and flag. But again...not allowed to finish? You do...recall day one, its a pirate game..not allowed to finish a voyage? Until you turn loot in, its free game.
      Them not responding is pirating 101, you should of known the basics....keep an eye out. Its a BIG SHIP, how could it sneak up on you?
    • Yup, Merch isnt fun. Agreed.
    • Hey..be happy you even lvl up at all, some cant even get a single lvl in within a month.
    • What End game content??
    • This be correct. Private servers (which i think you might need to pay?) wont have Rep. Mainly for free roaming and Event related stuff.
    • Not true. I am a bored pirate and I spent my time fishing or even joining random crews. So we all "bored players" arent the same.
      So what your also saying is...you cant do anything? Not even set sail or do a simple voyage? But you just did above, you reached Grade 5 on a Merch emissary which, frankly not many can even do that. Be proud to even reach that.
    1. This use to be the case, but proved that many were reached lvl 75 WAY to quick.
    2. Not gonna happen. It be a huge divide among players. Its, quote on quote. Sandbox world where "Player" interactions is part of the game. Remove it and it be dead game.
    3. Same as above, people were completing tasks to quick.
      Honestly, you shouldnt be grinding to complete objectives...you end up complaining later about lack of things to do.

    As with talking to Rare only, not the community. Were just repeating what...Rare has stated.

    If you really like it, these small matters which I sorry to hear you encounter means so much, you wouldnt be this upset.
    The thrill of the game so far is to meet players, do voyages and build a story yourself and tell it over an open fire. While also inserting yourself into the Lore of the game. Grinding is small part of it, not the whole.

  • @okamiknux said in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    so I figured I'd do some emissary flag grinding

    First mistake. Don't want to be a target, don't use the emissary system.

    I played 3 days this week, with 3-4 hour grinds to get to level 5 merchant emissary. And without fail all 3 days, when I finally get the emissary quests at the end, I get attacked and sunk by reaper faction or simply bored players.

    So you had 3-4 hours of no PvP, and then complained about getting attacked. Surely you understand what I'm saying here? You had 3-4 hours of no PvP, how are you complaining?

    The first day I wrote it off as part of the game, accepted that I got at least a little xp, and logged.

    Should've done that every day. It is part of the game.

    The second day I made it to lvl 5 and was instantly targetted by a lvl 5 reaper ship. OK, bad luck. Turned in my flag before being able to do the lvl 5 quests again... Kind of disheartening, but fine.

    Level 5 reapers can see other emissaries on the map. They likely were waiting for you to reach level 5 before attacking, to maximise their profits.

    The third day, I sat in a port for 20 minutes watching another reaper lvl 5 on the map until they logged. So I begin the lvl 5 emissary quests and out of nowhere a PL galleon shows up and sinks me as soon as I take the voyage and start loading up, not allowing me to complete the quests that would actually give me good reputation xp...

    They probably showed up during your 20 minutes of idling. No ship just appears from nowhere.

    OK, this sucks. I'm not doing merchant emissary because it's a fun thing to do. The quests are super boring fetch quests. I literally just want to get to lvl 50 and be done with it.

    If it's such a big deal just buy a level in the Black Market.

    I have spent around 12 hours this week in-game for about a lvl and a half in rep. That's simply ridiculous. I started at 47 and change and am not even 49 yet...

    That's because of your poor planning. Emissaries are an opt-in high risk-high-reward gameplay feature. If you choose to sail around for hours, with a target on your back, someone will attack you.

    I know it's a part of the game, but the pvp is completely out of control.

    Literally solo'd a Gold Hoarder Vault yesterday with 4 other ships on the server and no one attacked me for my entire session. Gonna have to disagree...

    And now I'm reading that when we finally do get private servers we won't even be able to do PVE content for rep or gold... WHY?!

    It's actually really simple. If you can do the Fort of the Damned in a) private server, or b) normal server, which one would you do it in? The private right? Because why take that risk of having someone sink you, or tuck on the fort, or steal the loot? If you can earn the same rewards with no risk as you can earn in the risk and reward game than what's the point of playing normal adventure?

    Also, private servers are meant for content creaters and communities. Things like Race of Legends, or a youtuber making a cinematic. Not for inexperienced players to grind away in pure safety.

    I'm really unhappy with the state of the game.

    That's a shame, because shared world PvEvP is the game's core concept. I highly doubt they would ever change it.

    I REALLY want to like it, but I can't get anything done or make any progress because bored players are always looking to attack other people.

    Just work in smaller sessions. Instead of spending 4 hours getting a grade 5 emissary, hit grade for and hop servers.

    Make turning in a lvl 5 flag worth a substantial amount of rep. Right now turning in the lvl 5 is pretty pathetic. So you grind to get there, and then you get engaged by reapers bc you're a high value flag, and so you turn in the flag to at least get SOMETHING, but it's almost worthless. This sucks. It's insult to the injury of not being able to do the emissary quests because you are targetted for PVP.

    The reward for hitting level 5 is the 2.5x multiplier and a voyage that rewards tons of loot.

    Make private servers PVE with rep and gold. Just give PVE players what they want... Please. A lot of players don't care about PVP at all and just want to play the game with their friends and enjoy the world and lore. Why is this such a problem?

    No. If players can do x with or without the risk, they're gonna do it without. Meaning regular servers become full of PvP leaning players. Sea of Thieves is an ecosystem.

    Athena leveling got nerfed since I last played. I ran some Athena quests with my PL friend on the first day back and it took us 3 (non-ashen) voyages to get to lvl 5 and then we had to turn in because we were targetted by reapers. Almost no return for our time-investment because again, the lvl 5 flag being turned in was essentially worthless.

    What about the 3 Athena's you got from the voyage?

    I love the game

    Clearly not.

    This does not motivate me to keep trying, in fact I'm so turned off by all of it I think I'm going to shelve the game again until things are different.

    Once again, I doubt Rare would ever change the entire core concept of their game for a few sad players.

  • @burnbacon said in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    • Second Day, You do know...once you reach grade 5, you can accept the reward voyages and lower your flag and Keep the voyages? Until they are completed. Thus removing you from the Reapers who look for Emissaries and appear on map.

    Thanks for sharing this. However, turning in the flag before doing the emissary voyages would mean the payout of said voyages would NOT be x2.5 right? I suppose it's better than nothing, but still very disheartening.

  • If you raise your flag after getting the emissary voyage by the time ya finish the emissary your flag should be close to 5 again

  • The problem with people telling us on a daily basis on these forums that pvp is a problem is that we that sail a lot know better

    Not one day goes by that I don't have a server that is peaceful or dead for hours usually it's about 25% or less of chaotic pvp madness and 75% either completely peaceful or manageable pvp (they are hostile but not very skilled)

    You don't even have to leave your boat more than a few moments there are many days I do nothing but sink skelly ships megs and do captain riddles which should only take a couple minutes at most. Just doing this method you can level any of the factions and don't even have to leave your boat at risk.

    It's better than events and voyages overall imo and far less dangerous

    I've played a little under a year and the entire time PVP has never been overwhelming in adventure. Some servers yes but never as a whole.

    People give up too easily and they rely too heavily on "winning" for fun. Every single person that sticks with this game makes significant amounts of progress and has countless stories of fun.

    If you put in the time and adapt instead of complain you will succeed. If you make sincere attempts every time you play it's almost impossible to not get things done in this game but it requires consistently trying.

    I would not avoid using emissaries people that are going to attack you are going to attack you. Use them level them sell often.

    You are no worse of a player than I have been at some point in my pirate journey so there are no real excuses as to why you can't do it. Sink 4 times sail 5 times and you will knock off those commendations and have millions and millions of gold and cool titles and cosmetics just like the rest of us that didn't give up

  • I would say something but it looks like everyone else has already obliterated this post....

  • I’m a PL and I have never transported a Chicken. I have never dug up Treasure Chests and I have never solved a riddle.

    I get in the boat. I get a sheet load of Cannonballs and I hunt. That is what I have done since launch. That is how I play the game!

    To each their own.

    I’ve never looked at achievements or accomplishments or Rep or Faction or what level I am or any of that. I just “Pirate” my way.

    Just be, just enjoy the game. It’s about the Journey not the destination.

    But if your that upset just join one of the Alliance Servers in the XBOX LFG System and level up with the rest of the sniveling cowards.

    But you’ll lose the magic and your accomplishments will feel empty...hollow...meaningless.

    But you do you.

  • @okamiknux pirate game vs sailing for treasure simulator

  • Pvp is fine as it is.

    I bought a pirate game not a sailing simulator.

  • @glannigan sagte in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    I’m a PL and I have never transported a Chicken. I have never dug up Treasure Chests and I have never solved a riddle.

    I get in the boat. I get a sheet load of Cannonballs and I hunt. That is what I have done since launch. That is how I play the game!

    I’ve never looked at achievements or accomplishments or Rep or Faction or what level I am or any of that. I just “Pirate” my way.

    But... that's not how I play the game... You are soo toxic when you hunt... I think I have to open a PvE only Thread...

    Joke aside @OkamiKnuX, listen carefully to the people here. It's not about 'get gud' or 'deal with it', these posts are meant seriously. I PVE only, well I am defender not aggressor, more fun than running imo. I have read a lot of got tips here on the Forums and as you said - you can play for hours without getting in trouble.

    Just don't care for losses. Enjoy the Seas.

  • @lordplinde said in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    @glannigan sagte in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    I’m a PL and I have never transported a Chicken. I have never dug up Treasure Chests and I have never solved a riddle.

    I get in the boat. I get a sheet load of Cannonballs and I hunt. That is what I have done since launch. That is how I play the game!

    I’ve never looked at achievements or accomplishments or Rep or Faction or what level I am or any of that. I just “Pirate” my way.

    But... that's not how I play the game... You are soo toxic when you hunt... I think I have to open a PvE only Thread...

    Joke aside @OkamiKnuX, listen carefully to the people here. It's not about 'get gud' or 'deal with it', these posts are meant seriously. I PVE only, well I am defender not aggressor, more fun than running imo. I have read a lot of got tips here on the Forums and as you said - you can play for hours without getting in trouble.

    Just don't care for losses. Enjoy the Seas.

    You know the funny part of it is when most of my intended victims grow a back bone, say enough is enough and punch the bully square in the nose I get sunk!

    Make no mistake about it! I’m terrible at PVP lol! My #1 rule is never get off the boat! If I get Boarded it’s Church for me!

  • @glannigan I know this feeling. I am getting better with canons but if I get boarded oh boy :)

    And yes, not everyone who comes after you is good in PvP. That makes victorys so fun for people like me^^

  • @lordplinde

    I know I bring as much enjoyment to others by my losses as I get from my victories.

    Last night rolling into Port a fresh spawn. Well just gank them I said.

    They started their session with a full FOTD, several Emissary Flags, our level 5 Gold Hoarder Flag and about 300 of every supply....

    But in all seriousness knowing what an epic start they got washes away any salt from the loss! Makes me feel good!

  • @lordplinde

    But... that's not how I play the game... You are soo toxic when you hunt... I think I have to open a PvE only Thread...

    Joke aside @OkamiKnuX, listen carefully to the people here. It's not about 'get gud' or 'deal with it', these posts are meant seriously. I PVE only, well I am defender not aggressor, more fun than running imo. I have read a lot of got tips here on the Forums and as you said - you can play for hours without getting in trouble.

    Just don't care for losses. Enjoy the Seas.

    Did you seriously just refer to PvP as "toxic"? I'm just curious, when you play CoD and someone shoots you, are they toxic? When you play GTA and you're trying to follow traffic laws and someone kills you do you think that's toxic? When someone kills you in Fortnite is that toxic? When someone kills you in Halo, do you think that is toxic?

    So why would you consider PvP in a game based on being a pirate would you consider that toxic? You do realize Sea of Thieves is a PvP sandbox game where different playstyles are forced to intermingle. If you dont like PvP maybe you should play Assassins creed black flag? Or maybe hop on minecraft and look for an ocean server where you can look for treasure. I'm sure me challenging your egocentric and linear way of thinking is "toxic" but seriously you need to find a new game.

  • Calm down @ROBBY0316. Have you not read the part with Joke aside? My first line was just a summary of typical things you see in all this 'PvE only Servers' Threads.
    I don't think PvP is toxic. I like the thrill :)

  • @robby0316 Your profile picture is what I imagine you look like when you're typing this.

  • As many others have stated, Emissary is opt in. You are quite literally attracting the content you do not wish to engage with.

    On top of this it doesn't sound like you're keeping an eye on your surroundings. It's surprisingly hard to get the total drop on another ship unless they get lucky or are very good and I doubt every ship you've been sunk by has hundreds of hours more than you.

    It sounds like you had several hours unbothered by other players before a few reapers noticed the big red x on your back and tracked you down. Players don't just drop out of the sky. You could probably have seen them from miles off before they hit your boat, hardly unfair.

    My advice is to lay off of emissary for a bit. I know I had to. Doing voyages and world events are way more fun without players breathing down your back for your emissary flag. You're still likely to attract players, but not as many as you would by doing FotD or Emissary stuff. I find players don't really mess with you unless you're doing one of those two things because it's hard to garauntee any given ship has loot otherwise.

  • @glannigan

    Lol I met a new crew mate had only 1 chicken turned in...he now has 10. I just completed my Athenas Legendary Merchant of Fauna of 500 animals turned in. He is a pvp guy too.
    You wouldn’t believe how many people attack a Level 5 Merchant emissary.

    Now we hunt Reapers emissaries with our L5 Merchant emissary flag on now.

  • Both Emmisaries and the FoTD are PVP mechanics. They are meant to drive PVP interactions, they aren't just lucrative for the sake of it.

    If you don't want to be a target for PVP, don't raise an emissary flag (a level 5 reaper's entire goal is to sink emissaries and they see every emissary on the map.) and don't to world events (the reason they have markers is to make all the ships pay attention to them and fight over them).

    You're basically just acting entitled by demanding an easier time even though the things you're doing indicate to other players that you're willing to accept the risks of PVP. If you just do normal quests, frequently turn in your loot, and avoid events, you'll face a lot less PVP and you can still finish your legend grind, it'll just be marginally slower.

  • @okamiknux

    Lets be clear: Emissary system is an opt-in to providing anyone that attacks you with guaranteed reward. You are not an empty ship by choice and allows you to show up to reapers that reach rank 5, which are since rank 1 conveniently visible on your map. Don't complain that people come for your flag, you are rewarded with a very good voyage at the end and a multiplier to everything you hand in. Down voting your flag will also award you.

    Nobody owes you anything in this game, other crews are not there to be merciful. If these ships are appearing "out of nowhere" you are not paying enough attention to the horizon. This is actually on you and your inexperience, you are to focused on your objective, your mission, your treasure, etc. etc. and not paying attention to the rest of the world. Don't play with blinders, every so often you will have to watch and scan the horizon for those sails.

    Cloud (world) Events like the Fort of the Damned are PVP centered events, do not do them if you are not willing to fight over them. It is why they are broadcasted across the seas!

    Being a PVE player does not mean you have nothing to learn, that the game should hand you the rewards for free. You are playing a PvEvP game and you must play accordingly. The ability to flee, avoid, hide, sink, kill, etc. are all viable. You can never engage in PvP combat if that is your choice. Yet you will have to learn to play that way:

    1. Do not sail with more than you are willing to lose. Unless you hoarded all your rewards reaching that rank 5 flag, you didn't actually leave empty handed.
    2. Watch the horizon and the information the game provides. There is literally no thing as "they appeared out of nowhere", those situations only occur when you failed to notice them.
    3. Decide how you want to handle the threat and situation.

    You are not talking to Rare, you are talking to the community. Rare knows exactly what they crafted and why they did. You however need to take responsibility of your own game play and decision making. It is a game, you will lose at times and you should analyze your actions. It is easy to blame the 'bored' players, the reapers, the other party... yet they won and achieved their goals by outplaying you. It is a sandbox game, where you craft the experience and you decide how you want to respond. Your pirate is just as strong and capable as any other out on the seas.

  • THERE ARE NO PVE SERVERS BECAUSE THEY WOULD KILL THE GAME. Anyone pveing would go to them giving the pvpers noone to steal from and making them quit. The pveers would get bored of pve and quit too. The game would die.

  • How come nobody understands that the fort of the damned is a pvp event? It advertises your activity IN THE SKY. Awakening the fort of the damned very literally tells the entire server where you are and what you are doing. THEN, it notifies the entire server when you are done and the key has dropped.

    In order to turn in loot from the Fort of the Damned you MUST be able to protect it from other players.

  • @okamiknux

    I've made this copy/paste in order to FULLY explain in GREAT detail as to why adding a PvE only server is a bad thing. I put some tips somewhere in the middle to help you in your Sea of Thieves endeavor, and if you want to skip the reasoning for why a PvE server won't be implemented, after the copy/paste I answer your arguments and questions directly to try and help you understand things better. I know you think SOT sucks and you don't want to play anymore, and if you don't want to that's fine. But if you do want to keep playing I want to try and help you so that you have fun in the game and don't always hate whenever you play.

    Let's say you want to stack the FOTD 10 times, that will take you around 8 hours to do if you're quick. Would you rather go into a server where:

    (1) You could be tucked on
    (2) You could have your loot be stolen
    (3) You waste 8 hours of work because a pirate boarded your ship
    (4) You're always under constant threat that you could die

    OR, would you rather be in a server where you are safe from all of those problems, and don't have to worry about some pirate stealing your loot?

    90% of players will take the second option, because there is no reason to put yourself in a situation where bad things could happen when you could alternatively be completely safe from other players. I'm not saying, "90% of players wants PvE only servers," I'm saying that if they were added, 90% of players would play them. Just like if they added an invincibility potion, EVERYONE would use it, does that mean that it should be added or that people want it? No, but since it's in the game people are going to use it.

    The problem with this is because 90% of players who do PVE missions will go to this private server, who's left on the normal servers? People who want to steal loot, but there's no loot to be stolen because everyone is off in fairyland completely safe from any problems that would arise. So all the PvPers leave the game, not to even mention that the most popular streamers have built their career by stealing loot. Pace22 would immediately leave the game because there's nothing left to steal, and many more streamers would leave, as well as most of their viewers, which means that SOT no longer has an internet presence. Now that all the news has gotten out that Sea of Thieves has a SEVERE drop in their playerbase, all of these articles will come out online saying things like,

    "Sea of thieves is a bad game," and "Sea of Thieves doesn't care about it's playerbase."

    So now that there is all of this stigma around SOT there will be no new players because there are only bad reviews. So people who want to buy Sea of Thieves won't, because there are all of these videos and articles saying that it's a bad game. So Sea of Thieves will no longer be getting an influx of new players, which also means that Rare won't make any money from people buying the game.

    What do you do once you've reached 75/75/75/20? By that point you'll have all of the cosmetics, and with the emissary system you can easily get the highest level in a 2-3 months. People will get bored because they're not working towards anything, they already have everything in the game and the highest level in the game, what now? Most players who are max level would normally turn to stealing loot so they don't get bored, but because of PVE only servers that's not a thing anymore. Eventually all of those people will leave because there's no point for them to play anymore, so the only people who play SOT are a few hundred people who didn't get max level and only play Sea of Thieves for 2 hours a week.

    Most PvPers who play adventure mode don't play it because they want PvP and ship vs ship battles, if they wanted that they would go to arena. People play adventure because they like stealing loot, so you can't just get rid of the loot.

    That's why adding PVE only servers are bad, the PvPers will leave, all of the streamers will leave, people will get bored, the internet starts hating on SOT, and then you have a dead game. Not to even mention the fact that the developers themselves have said many times that they want this game to be one where people of all ideologies can play together. The PVPers, PVEers and the RPers can all be in the same server together, and they will do everything they can to keep that in the game:

    Developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yrN70591Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3578

    Developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yrN70591Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3681

    As the developers said, the path to pirate legend involves the threat that you could be fought by other players. That's why they aren't going to add a PvE only server, as they believe and the majority of players believe that the path to pirate legend includes the fear of being fought by another pirate and losing your loot. There is no reason to pander to the couple thousand people who want PVE only servers, when you have hundreds of thousands of players who have bought and actively play the game because of the PVP factor. It doesn't make sense to change the game for a few, when the vast majority don't want that. Since most people fall into the category of PvPvEers, that would mean that if you remove the PvP aspect of the game, most of the playerbase would leave.

    People are always upset that in a PVP game, which has PVP in it, which is advertised as having PVP, a game that has always had PVP since the beginning of it's existence, a game that YOU bought knowing full well it had PVP, has PVP.

    People who think PVP doesn't belong in Sea of Thieves and complain that PVP is, "toxic," are the same type of people to play Minecraft and complain there are no guns.

    If you've made it this far into the post then you're at least willing to hear reasons as to why things are the way they are, and because of that I'm going to give you some solutions to help in your voyages. Let's move past the whole idea of, "I want a PVE server," and accept that it will never happen, so that we can find solutions to make your time on Sea of Thieves better.

    The first thing you can do would be to play with other people, I don't know your experience in the game but having more people is always better as you can keep 1 person in your crows nest as a lookout for incoming ships. Using the official Sea of Thieves discord, you can easily find likeminded people who are more than willing to play with you. The discord has over 160,000 players, and there are constantly requests to join people's crews, or people asking for players to join their crew. Discord link: https://discord.gg/seaofthieves

    Now that you have some people to play with, ALWAYS keep someone as a watchguard, if you have 4 people on your crew, you can easily send one of you to stand watch in the crows nest and have the rest of you do the voyage. Another thing to keep in mind, there may be tuckers on your boat, people who park their boat behind a rock or an island, then take the 3 minute swim over to your boat. So always make sure that whenever you leave the island you were just at, have at least 1 person check around your ship for tuckers. I'm not going to bore you with every single tuck spot in the game, but in general equip a sword and slash the ship. The cannons, masts, wheel, sides of the ship, barrels, etc. Anywhere where someone could hide some of their body inside something, sword that area. If you hit them, they will stand up and there will be a sound effect letting you know that you hit something.

    Whenever you load into a game, check the emissary tables next to the respective trading companies. If you see a tiny ship on the emissary table it means that someone is on your server doing that emissary, so if you see 4 people doing quests you may want to consider leaving that server as there are many people active. Always check the reaper's bones quest table, if there is a tiny ship on the emissary table or a reaper's marked ship on the map, leave the game as that ship has a high chance of trying to attack you and steal your loot. Try to minimize the risks before you even start your voyages.

    Those are some of the tips I can give you, hopefully these will help you in your voyages to come. I understand that it can be annoying when pirates come over and take all of your loot, but the sooner you can accept that it's a part of the game, the sooner you can improve and become better at avoiding those situations. Who knows, you might become a PvPer yourself.

    At the end of the day whether you want to add PvE servers or not, the developers themselves have said multiple times that they don't want to separate players into different servers. They want this game to be one where players of all groups, PvPers, PvErs, and RPers can all be in the same server together. The only thing that can change the developers vision for the game is if the community comes together and says that they want something different. That isn't happening, and they still have a very strong community in favor of PvPvE, so there's no point in trying to do something that could backfire into something very deadly.

    The only way that SOT will add a PvE only server, is if a majority of the community says that they want PVE only servers, until that happens, a PVE only server will never be added. When you are the owner of a video game, you have to do what the majority of people want or you risk killing your game, and right now the majority of people do not want PvE only servers, so they aren't going to add them.

    This game was MADE and is a game for PvPvErs, not for PvErs or people who just want to do missions and voyages without any threat whatsoever, the sooner you accept that this game was BUILT for PvPvE, then sooner you will be able to have fun in the game. If you don't like that fact then you can leave, as this will never change and if the only way that you will be happy playing SOT is by having a PvE only server, leave, because they are never going to add it.

    I played 3 days this week, with 3-4 hour grinds to get to level 5 merchant emissary. And without fail all 3 days, when I finally get the emissary quests at the end, I get attacked and sunk by reaper faction or simply bored players.

    The longer you take on a voyage the more chances you have of getting attacked and sunk, I would suggest doing your voyages faster. Make sure you are always in max wind, when I go into random crews in the SOT discord it amazes me the amount of people who just stand at the bow and forget that sails and wind exist. Always being max wind will save you well over 30 minutes depending on how far you have to sail.

    The second day I made it to lvl 5 and was instantly targetted by a lvl 5 reaper ship. OK, bad luck. Turned in my flag before being able to do the lvl 5 quests again... Kind of disheartening, but fine.

    If your goal is just to get the level 5 emissary I would suggest to keep running away (stay in max wind) And jump off of your boat to try to board and anchor them. If you get their anchor down once they lose 30 seconds if it's a galleon because it takes forever for them to get back to max wind cause their acceleration is slow. And if you can't board them no matter what, I would suggest cannoning off to the outpost and grabbing the quest, your boat doesn't need to be near you in order to grab the level 5 quest, only to lower the flag.

    The third day, I sat in a port for 20 minutes watching another reaper lvl 5 on the map until they logged. So I begin the lvl 5 emissary quests and out of nowhere a PL galleon shows up and sinks me as soon as I take the voyage and start loading up, not allowing me to complete the quests that would actually give me good reputation xp... We begged in text and voice chat to be left alone, we flew the alliance flag... we did everything we could to try and explain how we simply didn't want to do this AGAIN... No response: Not a word, just blew our ship to smithereens and killed us...

    That is apart of the game and will happen from time to time. You did a good job waiting for the level 5 reapers to leave the game before setting sail, but as for another ship coming in and sinking you, it's possible that #1 they had you muted, and #2 they had loot to sell and they thought you were a threat, so they made sure you were removed from the situation. All of the outposts are on the edge of the map, so you are far away from danger and can almost always see them coming. Just cannon straight up and take a 360 look around to see if you can find any ships coming towards you. If you want to be extra safe don't just look for reapers emissary's, look for all other emissary flags too and if there are 3+ emissaries on that server then the server is really populated and you should find a new server.

    OK, this sucks. I'm not doing merchant emissary because it's a fun thing to do. The quests are super boring fetch quests. I literally just want to get to lvl 50 and be done with it.

    Steal it. If it's boring to do fetch quests then start stealing other player's treasure. I promise you it will be fun AND you don't have to worry about losing loot because, well, it's not your loot to begin with.

    The last time I quit the game was because my friends and I did Fort of the Damned only to be swarmed by players once we completed it who killed, sunk us and took everything. I know it's a part of the game, but the pvp is completely out of control. It is so difficult to get any end-game PVE content done...

    Absolutely it is difficult to get end-game PvE content done, but you also get over 70,000 gold (assuming you get 2 bounty's) And you can get even more if you have a reaper's flag. It's high risk high reward, as it should be. FotD's are always difficult to do because there's always 1 tuccer around somewhere, when you do the FotD, look for mermaids. Just do a swim around the waters and look for a rowboat or a mermaid, then you'll know there's a tuccer and you can try to find them. Also, blow up kegs. I can't stress this enough BLOW UP THE MEGA KEGS. Tuccers have 1 way and 1 way only to kill you, blowing you up with mega kegs (yes they COULD ram your ship into an island, but I'm not counting that as you get maybe 1 hole and sink in 3 minutes) If you blow up kegs you lose 20,000 gold, but get to keep 50,000 of it. Trust me, it's worth it to blow up kegs to make sure that you don't die. High risk high reward.

    And now I'm reading that when we finally do get private servers we won't even be able to do PVE content for rep or gold... WHY?!

    The lengthy cop paste I put above.

    Make turning in a lvl 5 flag worth a substantial amount of rep. Right now turning in the lvl 5 is pretty pathetic. So you grind to get there, and then you get engaged by reapers bc you're a high value flag, and so you turn in the flag to at least get SOMETHING, but it's almost worthless. This sucks. It's insult to the injury of not being able to do the emissary quests because you are targetted for PVP.

    The reward is the level 5 emissary quest, the flag is just a bonus. And the level 5 flag gives you a nice amount of reputation

    .Make private servers PVE with rep and gold. Just give PVE players what they want... Please. A lot of players don't care about PVP at all and just want to play the game with their friends and enjoy the world and lore. Why is this such a problem?

    Copy/Paste above.

    Athena leveling got nerfed since I last played. I ran some Athena quests with my PL friend on the first day back and it took us 3 (non-ashen) voyages to get to lvl 5 and then we had to turn in because we were targetted by reapers. Almost no return for our time-investment because again, the lvl 5 flag being turned in was essentially worthless.

    The athena quest never got nerfed, it actually got buffed since you can now dig up athena trinkets and get athena skulls from the captains, however if you are trying to get level 5 emissary do the thieves haven runs because you ONLY get athena loot and gems, so it's much faster to level up the emissary that way.

    I love the game, and I like that PVP is a part of it, but 3 out of 4 days that I've spent my WHOLE AFTERNOON playing have been totally wasted by players with nothing better to do than ruin someone else's day.

    It's apart of the game, and you can easily see someone coming so make sure that you run away before that happens. Sell often, it shouldn't take you 3 hours to get a level 5 emissary, even as a solo. Just min/max stuff to get it done faster.

    This is especially frustrating when I play very differently from people like that. The same day, as we were leveling our flag we came across a new player in over his head trying to take on one of Ashenhearts liutenants. We tried to help him, though it was fruitless. Just trying to channel my inner Mr Rogers... unlike everyone else it seems.

    If you're trying to get your point across don't insult people by taking the moral highground. Because what you're essentially saying is this: ANYONE who PvPs other players and doesn't help them is just a toxic player.

    This does not motivate me to keep trying, in fact I'm so turned off by all of it I think I'm going to shelve the game again until things are different.

    Well, the game will never be different in the way that you want it, so if you want to shelve it forever, do so. But when you get the itch to play it again, take my advice and you'll have more fun than you are now.

    Longest paragraph I've made in a while.

  • @kaijoi said in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    Longest paragraph I've made in a while.

    But so worth it! Your post should be chiseled into a cave wall or something!

  • At some point hardcore PVP advocates have to understand that their stance is exactly what kills the game. In fact, Sea of Thieves is a griefing game at its core that is buoyed by incredible art assets and immersion. So it's a shame to me that top streamers and the persistent advocates on this forum revel in the fact that because they can, they will engage in maximum toxicity. Yeah, it's a free world guys, do whatever you want. Just recognize that streamers are mean, server fishing is dumb, and just because PVP is allowed and encouraged, it doesn't mean you aren't toxic for exclusively engaging in PVP and driving others away. It's a basic lesson in human empathy and most people on this forum fail - just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

  • @killy1682 You are making the same assumption that many others make about those of us who are opposed to PvE servers. It is convenient for your argument to assume that we have limited vision or there is something wrong with our moral development since we do not agree with you. Here’s the problem, most of us opposed to the idea do not engage exclusively in PvP. We spend a majority of our time on PvE tasks. But we also know that the PvP aspect is integral to the experience. We understand (as does Rare) that PvE servers would be detrimental for the large community of players who enjoy the game. If you look through this thread and others just like it you will see explanations of why. You will gain more insight into this when you drop the idea that players who want PvP in the game are not spending the majority of their time looking for helpless victims. We work on the same content as anyone else, but will go after opportunities to attack and steal from others when it seems worthwhile.

    The OP described joining a system designed specifically to incentivize PvP, then complained that they were attacked. Your implied suggestion that “just because you can doesn’t mean you should” does not fit this situation. This is like someone electing to play dodgeball and then complaining they keep getting struck with a ball. And here you are standing in the middle of the court saying those of us playing the game are griefing.

  • The game will die not from PVE servers, but from monotony and lack of progress. We, as a girl, are looking for a suitable outfit in the closet. What to do with gold and doubloons? The Legendary level does nothing, and so-called personal skills burst at the seams when a toxic team follows you. The game has nothing to do with the theme of piracy, everywhere there is stupid magic and items of clothing and weapons smeared with phosphorus. We have no merchant ships to plunder. There is no interest in playing at all.

  • @killy1682 sounds like you are playing the wrong game pal.

  • @killy1682

    At some point hardcore PVP advocates have to understand that their stance is exactly what kills the game.

    At some point the hardcore PvE advocates will realize the doomsayer threats hold no water. The game has been going on strong nearing 3 years at this point. Eventually all games die, but it certainly isn't the PvP crowd going to kill it. This threat you guys keep making has been said from the start, yet here we are. Your straw-men arguments just demonstrate how disingenuous you guys are.

  • @mferr11 said in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    @okamiknux said in PVP is totally out of control and making PVE very hard to enjoy.:

    so I figured I'd do some emissary flag grinding

    First mistake. Don't want to be a target, don't use the emissary system.

    I played 3 days this week, with 3-4 hour grinds to get to level 5 merchant emissary. And without fail all 3 days, when I finally get the emissary quests at the end, I get attacked and sunk by reaper faction or simply bored players.

    So you had 3-4 hours of no PvP, and then complained about getting attacked. Surely you understand what I'm saying here? You had 3-4 hours of no PvP, how are you complaining?

    The first day I wrote it off as part of the game, accepted that I got at least a little xp, and logged.

    Should've done that every day. It is part of the game.

    The second day I made it to lvl 5 and was instantly targetted by a lvl 5 reaper ship. OK, bad luck. Turned in my flag before being able to do the lvl 5 quests again... Kind of disheartening, but fine.

    Level 5 reapers can see other emissaries on the map. They likely were waiting for you to reach level 5 before attacking, to maximise their profits.

    The third day, I sat in a port for 20 minutes watching another reaper lvl 5 on the map until they logged. So I begin the lvl 5 emissary quests and out of nowhere a PL galleon shows up and sinks me as soon as I take the voyage and start loading up, not allowing me to complete the quests that would actually give me good reputation xp...

    They probably showed up during your 20 minutes of idling. No ship just appears from nowhere.

    OK, this sucks. I'm not doing merchant emissary because it's a fun thing to do. The quests are super boring fetch quests. I literally just want to get to lvl 50 and be done with it.

    If it's such a big deal just buy a level in the Black Market.

    I have spent around 12 hours this week in-game for about a lvl and a half in rep. That's simply ridiculous. I started at 47 and change and am not even 49 yet...

    That's because of your poor planning. Emissaries are an opt-in high risk-high-reward gameplay feature. If you choose to sail around for hours, with a target on your back, someone will attack you.

    I know it's a part of the game, but the pvp is completely out of control.

    Literally solo'd a Gold Hoarder Vault yesterday with 4 other ships on the server and no one attacked me for my entire session. Gonna have to disagree...

    And now I'm reading that when we finally do get private servers we won't even be able to do PVE content for rep or gold... WHY?!

    It's actually really simple. If you can do the Fort of the Damned in a) private server, or b) normal server, which one would you do it in? The private right? Because why take that risk of having someone sink you, or tuck on the fort, or steal the loot? If you can earn the same rewards with no risk as you can earn in the risk and reward game than what's the point of playing normal adventure?

    Also, private servers are meant for content creaters and communities. Things like Race of Legends, or a youtuber making a cinematic. Not for inexperienced players to grind away in pure safety.

    I'm really unhappy with the state of the game.

    That's a shame, because shared world PvEvP is the game's core concept. I highly doubt they would ever change it.

    I REALLY want to like it, but I can't get anything done or make any progress because bored players are always looking to attack other people.

    Just work in smaller sessions. Instead of spending 4 hours getting a grade 5 emissary, hit grade for and hop servers.

    Make turning in a lvl 5 flag worth a substantial amount of rep. Right now turning in the lvl 5 is pretty pathetic. So you grind to get there, and then you get engaged by reapers bc you're a high value flag, and so you turn in the flag to at least get SOMETHING, but it's almost worthless. This sucks. It's insult to the injury of not being able to do the emissary quests because you are targetted for PVP.

    The reward for hitting level 5 is the 2.5x multiplier and a voyage that rewards tons of loot.

    Make private servers PVE with rep and gold. Just give PVE players what they want... Please. A lot of players don't care about PVP at all and just want to play the game with their friends and enjoy the world and lore. Why is this such a problem?

    No. If players can do x with or without the risk, they're gonna do it without. Meaning regular servers become full of PvP leaning players. Sea of Thieves is an ecosystem.

    Athena leveling got nerfed since I last played. I ran some Athena quests with my PL friend on the first day back and it took us 3 (non-ashen) voyages to get to lvl 5 and then we had to turn in because we were targetted by reapers. Almost no return for our time-investment because again, the lvl 5 flag being turned in was essentially worthless.

    What about the 3 Athena's you got from the voyage?

    I love the game

    Clearly not.

    This does not motivate me to keep trying, in fact I'm so turned off by all of it I think I'm going to shelve the game again until things are different.

    Once again, I doubt Rare would ever change the entire core concept of their game for a few sad players.

    Well said, this is the perfect response to clear up anything anyone complaining about pvp needs to read and accept.

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