How to reduce spawn camping in arena

Nay to all of them, this game prides itself on an equal playing field. Why should anyone get super powers over their opponent? Crews just don't get magically spawn camped, there is a process that has to happen in order to even get to that point. Not only do they need to board your ship, but need to sweep an entire crew. Boarding the ship can quite easily be defended against. I mean players can't physically defend themselves when on ladders. Shooting, slashing, or just knocking them off it is quite easy. This also doesn't excuse the fact that your crew most likely outnumbers them, whole crews shouldn't be boarding you at once, that just leaves their ship highly vulnerable.

If you fail to defend your ship, you shouldn't be rewarded with super powers. You don't reward failure, because your opponents had to push onto a position that you technically have the home-field advantage and ease of defending

@realdccowboy yeah those solutions are worse than spawn camping. You want to punish people for being better. Just scuttle.

Also the best solution would just be more spawn locations.

@realdccowboy
Whether it be Arena or Adventure, the sentiment remains the same, an equal playing field. One crew having magical spawning powers or abilities that cripple good plays have no place in this game. As said before, players just don't magically appear on a ship with each member of that crew getting smited by the divine. It takes time and effort to bypass a ship defense just to get into that position. Why should you punish players who pushed an advantage or made a good play in order to get into that position?

Not every crew goes to spawn-camp for the fun of it. All crews have the power to make it stop, scuttle. Some crews just need a lesson in losing their pride. There is better ways to tackle this problem and that is through better tactics on their end. Guard ladders and prevent people from getting established. Defending from boarders is rather easy as is, the game pretty much holds your hand and gives you hints on when players are boarding. The trick is to learn to spot the hints and actually apply a defense.

You are probably unaware, but Rare has tried to implement spawn protections, but the long story short is they reached the conclusion that it is an advantage that breaks their motto of an equal playing field. You may not like that answer, but that is Rare pretty much telling you that ideas like suggested above go against the fundamental principles of the game.

I understand the frustration and i'm right there with you. Getting spawncamped just feels bad in any game and Sea of Thieves is no exception. Sea of Thieves definitely needs some sort of short duration spawn protection, the amount of times i've been double gunned before i can even move is astoundingly frequent.

However, i'm not sure I agree with any of your suggestions save for maybe faster respawns on your own ship. I agree with the others that creating an overwhelming imbalance would probably be less fun than getting spawncamped. There's significant risk in boarding and imo the devs should focus on making it easier to overcome spawncamping rather than harder to board.

Instead I think scuttling is the big issue here. Players are too proud to sink their own ship and it shows. Players would rather let themselves get spawncamped than scuttle and that's something i think the devs need to think on. Scuttling may be a smart and resource efficient way to handle spawncamping, but players aren't here to sink their ship when they get into a tight spot, they're here to sail it and go out guns ablazing. Its seen by many as the cowards way out and plenty of players would rather destroy their own enjoyment of the game than lose their pride.

@awyrlas

Players would rather let themselves get spawncamped than scuttle and that's something i think the devs need to think on.

I don't think the Devs need to do anything in that regard. Rare has zero control over one crews pride. There is no shame in scuttling in this game. If a crew has the skill to essentially put a crew in an endless loop of spawn camping, then they certainly have enough time to swing a ship around and sink it. Its game over for them, just have some humility and accept defeat. The game has an all or nothing mindset which what draws me to this game. Its quite similar to Rust in the sense that you can lose everything to an extend. Fighting with high stakes is something I quite enjoy, any adjustments that change that feeling for me just ruins it for me.

@nabberwar

This is exactly the kind of thing the devs are responsible for. Game design is a hobby of mine and this is the first thing I learned. If players enjoy your game but aren't having fun, they did not fail to find the fun, you failed to show it to them. Players will find the least interesting and most frustrating path to success and will persevere until they finally succeed or are forced to stop. Think about scuttling in this context of other competitive games. When's the last time you actually forfeited a match in something like Dota, Overwatch, Cod because you were losing?

@realdccowboy

@Nabberwar I don't see how any of the ideas would create an unequal playing field.

I can break them down piece by piece if that is what you want.

Players killed on their own ship by a boarder get a significantly reduced respawn timer.

This should be quite obvious, but getting to the fight quicker than what your opponent can is quite a blatant advantage. That means faster response time to get to a sinking ship and by extension they can get to patching and bucketing faster. Certainly not an equal playing field

The ammo box and weapons locker should be inaccessible to opposing crew members.

Should be obvious, but limiting a crew to only fight with 5-10 bullets is crippling considering the owners of the ship get an infinite amount. It is a giant advantage. Certainly not an equal playing field

Killing a player within 5 seconds of spawning causes "blood-rage." As blood-rage increases, visibility is reduced. Blood-rage decreases over time but can be immediately cleared by returning to your ship.

Physically blinding a player while giving your own crew perfect clarity is a giant advantage. Certainly not an equal playing field

Alternate idea to 1-3. Killing an opponent within 5 seconds of spawning results in a penalty. First three offenses don't count as a kill towards score or commendations. The fourth offense counts as a negative mark against score and commendations (or ejection from the arena). Warnings should be clearly displayed to players so they know why they are being penalized.

Just scuttle my dude, literally wanting to kick your opponent from the game just reeks of being a giant salty sore loser.

Some ideas are more severe than others, but they would affect everyone equally.

Its an unequal playing field because in that moment the crew you are playing against isn't afforded the same powers. It doesn't effect them equally. This isn't just my thoughts alone, this is Rare's stance as well. They have gone on the record and called stuff like what you suggested above an advantage that breaks their fundamental core of this game having an equal playing field.

At the end of the day, I just want to see Arena played as a competition. And I want there to be more interest. It's just kind of dull right now. I think it's because players are using it as a commendation farm, but maybe it's just naturally winding down.

Arena was pretty much dead on arrival since its first iteration. Its just not fun. The stakes are too low, and it really isn't what people want. They don't want to fight over chests, they just want a simple and pure fighting experience. Why complicate things, Arena/deathmatch is a time tested mode that has weathered time itself. No need to complicate it more.

@awyrlas

This is exactly the kind of thing the devs are responsible for.

Not all games appeal to everyone. Its foolish on a devs part to try and appeal to everyone. The more people you try to please just inevitably leads to no one feeling pleased.

Game design is a hobby of mine and this is the first thing I learned.

CAD is one of mine, but that don't make me an engineer. Neat, you have a hobby. That still doesn't make you an expert any more then the rest of us.

When's the last time you actually forfeited a match in something like Dota, Overwatch, Cod because you were losing?

Only one game on that list I play, but I certainly will admit defeat in League of Legends (Very similar to DOTA). It actually happens quite often, the longer you play the better you understand when to call it. Certain champs snowball later in the game and if your opponent is already in the lead with one of those champs early in the game prior to their spike its just delaying the inevitable.

I have zero issue admitting defeat, I will still always play to win, but I don't have an issue with pride and looking at the big picture. If I am getting killed for the 5th spawn, I know that my opponent had plenty of time to simply move the boat around and put holes in it. They could quite easily run it aground to put holes in it as well. I've lost, I have zero issues seeing the reality of the situation and have no desire to prolong the suffering.

Seems they should just remove the penalty for scuttling your ship.

@nabberwar said in How to reduce spawn camping in arena:

Not all games appeal to everyone.

You're right. Nowhere did I say they had to, just that enjoyment of the game is the responsibility of the developers.

CAD is one of mine, but that don't make me an engineer. Neat, you have a hobby. That still doesn't make you an expert any more then the rest of us.

I also never said I was an expert, this why I said it was a hobby. Just because CAD is a hobby of yours doesn't mean that you don't have insight into the field of engineering or the programs they use. You likely are decently familiar with the field and the basics of CAD and could likely use it competently. In a similar way I am familiar with the basics of game design and what is required of a designer/dev.

Only one game on that list I play, but I certainly will admit defeat in League of Legends (Very similar to DOTA). It actually happens quite often, the longer you play the better you understand when to call it.

This is more than fair.

I have zero issue admitting defeat, I will still always play to win, but I don't have an issue with pride and looking at the big picture. If I am getting killed for the 5th spawn, I know I've lost, I have zero issues seeing the reality of the situation and have no desire to prolong the suffering.>

Then you are more disciplined than most. Often it's incredibly difficult to convince my teammates we should scuttle despite it being the clearly better option. This is why I want the devs to address Scuttling. I don't think it should be removed, but it could certainly be handled better to make the option of forfeit feel more satisfying.

At least with League and Dota the game is over when you forfeit.

@realdccowboy

Gotcha. I think this nicely summarizes you're argument. I haven't read Rare's stance on this but will look it up. And maybe try to sway some minds.

You won't find that response with your current level of forum involvement. Part of what I stated was discovered in the testing environment, so I can't just link you the response here.

Bullets. I'm fine with a home-field advantage, but I can understand why you dislike the idea.

A home field advantage still remains an advantage though, and this has other outreaching problems in this game you may not be aware of. Have you ever cooperated with someone? This isn't a gotcha question either, but its not uncommon for players to simply jump ship and join up with another crew. I've done it myself, but by limiting access to ammo and the such, you pretty much eliminate some forms of cooperating. Its hard to defend an ally on their ship when I can't have access to basic resources. This game is more than sink on sight, but there is a lot of cooperation, and with that cooperation needs to the tools to facilitate it.

If the goal is an equal playing field, that also includes home field advantages not being a thing.

@realdccowboy spawn camping isn't greifing. sorry to burst your bubble.