@machinesum23201 You identified the problem but came up with the wrong solution.

They won't implement this because it would further incentivize betrayal rather than co-operation.

A better solution would be don't touch the loot value system at all but cap alliances to a max of 3. Alliances servers would be unaffected by it and they will still play their way but with their progress in such activities reduced. (Similar fix to how Rare didn't like Reapers doing PvE activities to rank up so they reduced loot value to incentivize fighting for flags instead)

The more exciting thing about a 3 ship cap is this opens the opportunity for big 2v2 or 3v3 fleet battles in adventure as an organically formed alliance would never get big enough for the whole server to go peaceful.

I personally think since they were so concerned about how fast some advanced thru Reapers and Athena rep after the emissary update, they should be equally concerned with this.

@needsmokes said in Huge problem about alliance system:

Some people just want to play the game without the threat of other players, or with more than 3 friends on the same server. This has been going on since the game began.

So what?? I see no problems here.
Would you rather Rare introduce PVE servers to keep these people playing the game instead?

I'd rather they knee-cap progression a bit since the alliance servers basically ARE PvE servers. It still lets them form them as I said but slows it down so they are only getting 50% from two other crew's work. I see no problem with this because alliance servers will still continue, that won't stop them. What this might have the added benefit of doing is creating some nice organic fleet battles in adventure which right now is mostly stale when it comes to naval encounters with other players.

@needsmokes said in Huge problem about alliance system:

@kommodoreyenser

Gold and doubloons have become completely pointless for many of us, even if we have nothing to do with alliance servers.
Why care how much people earn?
They'll soon reach the point where it becomes pointless and unspendable

Never once mentioned gold and doubloons. Progression is solely tied to reputation earned.

@kommodoreyenser said in Huge problem about alliance system:

A better solution would be don't touch the loot value system at all but cap alliances to a max of 3.

While you're right that OP has the wrong solution, I don't think yours would do much of anything either.

First I would wager that alliances don't normally get much higher than 2 or 3 ships organically. I've only seen one form organically once and it very quickly fell apart once loot needed to be divvied up.

Next I'd also wager that the only alliances that stay at capacity are the ones that were inorganically formed.

The artificial cap on alliances would be a drag on the ones that do form organically. The uncertainty that more than one or two other crews delivers is the perfect counter to organic alliances.

I'm also not all that certain that a cap would incentive players to both stick with a 3 person alliance and then also fight another 3 person alliance in the same server. It just sounds unlikely in really any scenario.

@awyrlas said in Huge problem about alliance system:

@kommodoreyenser said in Huge problem about alliance system:

A better solution would be don't touch the loot value system at all but cap alliances to a max of 3.

While you're right that OP has the wrong solution, I don't think yours would do much of anything either.

First I would wager that alliances don't normally get much higher than 2 or 3 ships organically. I've only seen one form organically once and it very quickly fell apart once loot needed to be divvied up.

Next I'd also wager that the only alliances that stay at capacity are the ones that were inorganically formed.

The artificial cap on alliances would be a drag on the ones that do form organically. The uncertainty that more than one or two other crews delivers is the perfect counter to organic alliances.

I'm also not all that certain that a cap would incentive players to both stick with a 3 person alliance and then also fight another 3 person alliance in the same server. It just sounds unlikely in really any scenario.

I never stated 2v2 or 3v3 fleet battles would be common but this would definitely boost the chances of it happening vs now. Also, my primary goal with this is to let the alliance server folks continue on (not telling them how to play the game) and the same with natural alliances but at the same time coming up with something to please the anti-alliance cheesing crowd that don’t like alliances being used as a power leveling tool.

I appreciate the disagreeing point of view but I have to ask, what solution to this situation do you think is appropriate?

@kommodoreyenser

I probably wouldn't do much of anything tbh. Not that I think alliances are perfect or anything but I think they strike the right balance between risk and reward while also being entirely uncomplicated enough so that anyone can interact with them seamlessly. Raise a flag, get a cut, try to play nice.

I think replicating that in a way that makes it mostly impervious to abuse would be difficult.

Organic alliances are half a miracle to be honest as the threat of betrayal will always be more alluring than the safety of an alliance. Why trade away your reward for the promise of safety when you can just take all of the reward and never see your former ally again? The smart ones will realize you can

Though the reason alliances work so well as a risk/reward mechanic is exactly why they're so easily abused. Organic alliances are based on the premise that you are playing with people you do not know and have no attachment to. As soon as you are playing with people you know, you are playing with a community that has its own rules and social conduct to respect.

Any mechanic that encourages tenuous cooperation will reward those without risk of falling prey to that system.

Simple fix is to remove all alliance gold/rep gains 🤷‍♂️ make people play properly!

What is the problem again? Or is this more about Server Alliance?
IF so...

Is these server alliances, destroying "Your" game? No?
Then leave it alone....

@burnbacon yea actually they are destroying my game because my crew prefer to steal and it is great when you come across a loot hoard and there are none because all the people that would loot hoard now don't unless they are in a full server alliance and thats not how the game was meant to be played. There is always supposed to be some risk. Therefor full server alliances are an exploit to get large amounts of gold with no risk of losing it.

@machinesum23201 I find the exact opposite to be the case.

I cannot find anyone to ally with. I would say 90% of the time - perhaps more - I run solo and anyone I encounter just tries to kill me.

Repeated appeals to work together go unanswered. Even when there is A LOT of cash on offer, they would just prefer to blow up my boat and sell broken bottles and ruined cloth than make any real money.

Apparently, simple math is beyond the meager abilities of most players. I mean, I would be happy to share all profit AND straight up give my flag to someone if they would just stand there and make sure I don't get shot.

@jack-hinson7536

For real tho. I wish there was a way to encourage more player cooperation without entirely removing the threat of betrayal or good old fashioned piracy

@awyrlas I know.

I've even gone through the numbers and explained to them exactly what needs to happen - with them having to do "not much" - in order to make huge piles of cash.

Didn't matter. They sank my boat and shot me anyway. Then gloated about "all the gold they got" for selling a few crates. Which does not make sense.

One guy - he gloated about selling two busted crates of rum he got off my sunk boat, then told me about the $12 million he had - which was likely a lie. You don't gloat about getting a few hundred gold for a couple junked and burned crates when you're sitting on $12 mil.

He did this, of course, right before he killed me at Spire Outpost by shooting me in the back. Which I find to be a common theme among this type of player.

@bugaboo-bill who said that I server hop?

@bugaboo-bill well I don't hop servers that's why alliance servers upset me. Because it's frustrating knowing that there are many groups playing this game in full alliance servers and that I struggle to find ships that have any loot on their boat. I am max level in everything and I have every cosmetic in the game and 85 million gold and pretty much every commendation. I enjoy the pvp aspect of the game. So what am I supposed to do just quit the game because there is no loot to steal. I have had lots loot stolen from me plenty of times its part of the game. It upset me for a time but it also drove me to get better. And now I am better for it I learned new techniques and new strategies on how to fight players and other ships. That's how I understood that the game was meant to be played. That you win some and you lose some. But we always come back to play another day.

@bugaboo-bill 3 million players who play consistently meaning every day? Or 3 million players that logged on maybe one time the entire month? We don't know because Rare won't elaborate on those numbers. And 100 communities? We don't know how big this is what if it's 1000 communities. And if this problem is so small and take up such a small percentage of the community. Why do the servers that I get in seem so dead? And I will server merge 4 to 5 times a night after I sink a ship or 2 and sometimes I server merge into a server drive around for a bit and stop somewhere and server merge again. Yet the alliance server communities seem to be everywhere you can find them on here, reddit, discord, and xbox looking for groups. And these are groups that literally seclude themselves from the entire community. Form their own servers and keep those servers populated with people of their choosing. That is an exploit and exploits are against the rules. And if you don't do this then you should be on board with getting this exploit and people who use this exploit out of the game. Because cheating the system is wrong no matter what side you are on pvp or pve.

Who cares. Heard all this stuff before. Let players play the way they want. Its within the rules of the game. It doesn't matter how much money they make or how quickly alliance servers level up. Those players just hit the level cap sooner and are left with nothing to do. Just relax and enjoy your own game.

Just make it fair in the sense of loot spread:

No. of Ships - % of gold/doubloon gain:

2- 50-50
3- 33-33-33
4- 25-25-25-25
5- 20-20-20-20-20
6- 16-16-16-16-16-16

For those that will waste their time thinking some of those don't exactly add up to 100% then just add some extra gold if it's an odd division.

@qu1etone said in Huge problem about alliance system:

Who cares. Heard all this stuff before. Let players play the way they want. Its within the rules of the game. It doesn't matter how much money they make or how quickly alliance servers level up. Those players just hit the level cap sooner and are left with nothing to do. Just relax and enjoy your own game.

I would agree with you if the majority of players didn't come to the forums everyday to complain about PvP in the game.

@kommodoreyenser said in Huge problem about alliance system:

@machinesum23201 You identified the problem but came up with the wrong solution.

They won't implement this because it would further incentivize betrayal rather than co-operation.

A better solution would be don't touch the loot value system at all but cap alliances to a max of 3. Alliances servers would be unaffected by it and they will still play their way but with their progress in such activities reduced. (Similar fix to how Rare didn't like Reapers doing PvE activities to rank up so they reduced loot value to incentivize fighting for flags instead)

The more exciting thing about a 3 ship cap is this opens the opportunity for big 2v2 or 3v3 fleet battles in adventure as an organically formed alliance would never get big enough for the whole server to go peaceful.

I personally think since they were so concerned about how fast some advanced thru Reapers and Athena rep after the emissary update, they should be equally concerned with this.

I honestly think your idea is the best solution. Cap alliances making an interesting new team battle scenario.