Is PvP really 'fun'?

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    Ahoy there!

    I've been playing this game for just a week, and last night my buddies came up with the idea that instead of our regular gold hoarding, and/or tall tale completing, we should go full PvP. So we did. And it was an incredibly boring experience. I must admit, fighting another ship can be pretty fun, although I don't really agree with some of the more [mod edit] aspects of PvP (like shooting yourself out of a cannon, onto the enemy boat... that's just stupid). But the interval between fights was just sooo damn long, it took ages to actually find some ship to sink, and when we did, it was usually parking besides an island or outpost, sometimes completely unmanned, hardly capable of fighting back. Again, not that interesting sinking a ship that's not really doing anything. So that got me thinking... what is driving these 'full-on PvP' guys forward? Aimlessly sailing with hardly any goal until half an hour or so later a sail finally shows up on the horizon seems pretty underwhelming to me. It took us a 5 hour session to sink 4 ships in total, only 1 of which was actually capable of fighting back. Am I missing something here, or is PvP-ing really that bland?

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  • Iceman D18
    Marauder
    Insider

    @ilumineir Sounds like you have actually got pretty unlucky. No one should really be leaving their ship unmanned whilst they go to an island (unless it's small enough you can see the horizon from it) when running in a group.

    What drives PvP players forward is the reward for those kills. It's not as much about the kills themselves, but the treasure that they get from it. It's a strange sense of satisfcation sinking someone and seeing all that float up to the top. You've not had to spend hours solving riddles or reading maps to get it.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @iceman-d18 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    What drives PvP players forward is the reward for those kills. It's not as much about the kills themselves, but the treasure that they get from it. It's a strange sense of satisfcation sinking someone and seeing all that float up to the top. You've not had to spend hours solving riddles or reading maps to get it.

    Ah yes, we had none of that either, since 3 out of 4 ships was at an outpost, it was pretty much cleaned empty by the time we got there. Miniscule loot, not that it mattered because "we were in it for the fighting anyway". I mean, if we really wanted the loot, we would just go treasure hunting, get a nice map with 5 marks on it, possibly meet at least one ashen guardian/keymaster there, and a skeleton captain, plus random chests, mermaid gems scattered around, really, a single island can give us a ton of loot in 20 minutes or so. I just don't see the same would be plausible with PvP. Ships that are filled to the brim will do everything to keep their distance, utilizing the terrain and the wind so we will never catch up to them, or we do after a 30 minute chase, which, then again, is a lot of time doing hardly anything. So ships that we get to fight are probably ones that don't have much to lose anyway, beating the purpose of PvP-ing for loot.

  • Octopus Lime
    Master
    Founder

    @ilumineir I think the problem you had was going 'full PvP' I find it best to just play as you normally would, but when the opportunity presents itself (sails on the horizon) then go and fight them, that's how I play at least. Also if you do want a fight, activating FotD is a normally a guarantee to attract attention.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @octopus-lime That's what I think as well, although I would hardly want to engage in combat when our ship is also full of loot, so the chances of meeting a ship we could fight while also not having much to lose ourselves is.. pretty slim.

    We also thought about taking the Reaper's Bounty, since that could also lead to us meeting some greedy fellas, but we never actually got to a Reaper's Bounty. One time it despawned right as we would've got there, and the second time we just ended up going anywhere but.

  • ScaryFawn235336
    Captain
    Insider

    One thing I dont get is, why dont you go to arena? 5 hours means 20 matches, in total its 20-30 ships and crews you might encounter

  • Iceman D18
    Marauder
    Insider

    @ilumineir said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @iceman-d18 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    What drives PvP players forward is the reward for those kills. It's not as much about the kills themselves, but the treasure that they get from it. It's a strange sense of satisfcation sinking someone and seeing all that float up to the top. You've not had to spend hours solving riddles or reading maps to get it.

    Ah yes, we had none of that either, since 3 out of 4 ships was at an outpost, it was pretty much cleaned empty by the time we got there. Miniscule loot, not that it mattered because "we were in it for the fighting anyway". I mean, if we really wanted the loot, we would just go treasure hunting, get a nice map with 5 marks on it, possibly meet at least one ashen guardian/keymaster there, and a skeleton captain, plus random chests, mermaid gems scattered around, really, a single island can give us a ton of loot in 20 minutes or so. I just don't see the same would be plausible with PvP. Ships that are filled to the brim will do everything to keep their distance, utilizing the terrain and the wind so we will never catch up to them, or we do after a 30 minute chase, which, then again, is a lot of time doing hardly anything. So ships that we get to fight are probably ones that don't have much to lose anyway, beating the purpose of PvP-ing for loot.

    And that is why SoT is a PvPvE game. It's all about a balance of PvP activities and PvE activities. It isn't designed to be played as purely a PvP game in the sense of going round sinking other people and it isn't designed as purely a PvE game where you can loot in peace. Its about the interaction between both.

    I myself don't tend to keep lots of treasure on the ship, I cash in often. Yes you don't get that massive payout at the end, but if I do get sunk I don't get annoyed because I've only lost a few bits. If I have anything of any real value then I get shut of it ASAP.

    You also have to pick your targets carefully. There isn't much point sinking a ship sitting at an outpost as there is chance they have either just spawned (no loot), in the process of unloading (little loot) or just finished unloading (no loot). It's not worth the cannonballs/potential damage to your ship. If you want a fight then make sure the other ship has got something to fight for.

    As mentioned, FoTD are a good way of getting decent PvP action because it gives people something to fight for.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @ilumineir

    all who limit themself in the way they aproach SoT chosse to do so.
    No matter if they try to do PvE only and get salty about PvP or PvP only and get bored because its not a DM mode or a small map you find foes behind every corner.

    If you welcpme PvP when you do PvE and if you take the opportunities to PvP while you do PvE then you are fine.
    Else you limit yourself.

    The game was or is meant to be played a way the majority dont get, but are focussed on just one thing, but not both.

    Aproach SoT in all aspecs in a blanced way and there are no problems like this.

  • Da German420
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    did yesterday athene runs and a guy hided for idk 90 minutes under a barrel in my crowsnest,at the end he killed us both when i climbed up the crowsnest with a megkeg,im sure the whole time no mermaid appeared? when that not works erase that stupid hide emotes....i know i cant lose but i think i never played a game that feels so toxic sometimes....btw makes it a huge difference on what emissary reapers grade i am when i sell an emissary flag?

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @weedstar-deluxe sagte in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    btw makes it a huge difference on what emissary reapers grade i am when i sell an emissary flag?

    yep, still the factor like for everything else.
    Grade 1 = 1.25x (125% of normal value)
    Grade 2 = 1.5x (150% of normal value)
    Grade 3 = 1.75x (175% of normal value)
    Grade 4 = 2x (200% of normal value)
    Grade 5 = 2.5x (250% of normal value)

    did yesterday athene runs and a guy hided for idk 90 minutes under a barrel in my crowsnest,at the end he killed us both when i climbed up the crowsnest with a megkeg,im sure the whole time no mermaid appeared?

    if he got onto the ship via rowboat no mermaids spawn afaik

  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @ilumineir Your post has been edited as it goes against the Forum Rules and Pirate Code.

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  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @bugaboo-bill said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @ilumineir

    all who limit themself in the way they aproach SoT chosse to do so.
    If you welcpme PvP when you do PvE and if you take the opportunities to PvP while you do PvE then you are fine.
    Else you limit yourself.

    Is that right, though? I mean, let's see how the game is intended to be played. It is made pretty clear, that the game is centered around progression, finding/stealing/gathering loot, be it a chest, a crate of rum, or the flag of a sunken ship, and selling it. So the game is meant to be played in a way where you focus on progressing through ranks, and earning rewards. That being said, PvP just doesn't fit well into this whole shebang. Ships on one server are few and far between, and even if you stumble upon a ship, there's a good chance your own ship is carrying a considerable amount of loot - aka potential progression. A player who is playing the game in the intended, progression-centered way will more often than not avoid combat because, more often than not, fighting another ship is not worth the risk of losing your own loot. So you're in a scenario where PvP opportunities are naturally scarce, and even the few that pop up will mostly be avoided for the sake of progression. The way I see, PvP just doesn't quite work in this game, because it hardly ever happens if you play the game the way it is intended. Now, Rare MAY say that they intend the game to be played in a more PvP-y way, but their game is built in a way that says the opposite. The game is centered around progression, and PvP for the most part goes against progression. It just doesn't work.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @ilumineir

    The most fun way to PvP is by doing it when the opportunity arises. Go out, have fun, enjoy the area, spot sails and go over there to check it out.

    You want to have the full PvP experience, yet have issues with risking your own loot? Therefore you want to bring nothing to the treasure pot, but want to get all the spoils.

    Personally I don't enjoy going for empty ships, so unless I have seen them head to the outpost and have a time estimation... I usually don't bother heading directly towards them, keep an eye out. See them move to other islands, give them some time to gather loot. Pick your targets wisely...

    You want a worthy fight, yet don't have any bling to lure people in. If I see a full chad PvP ship coming at me that is completely empty, I tend to just sail away and let them chase. They offer me nothing, why would I offer them my spoils in a battle? Those are the crews I dodge - usually they are semi-decent or even good at combat, so I might actually lose, why risk it while I can just sail away? I engage with ease in combat while my ship carries 20k+ loads if they have something of value. I tend to also showboat it on the deck, so... it is easy for them to spot that the battle has spoils for them as well if they win.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @ilumineir

    Therefore you want to bring nothing to the treasure pot, but want to get all the spoils.

    Exactly, because that is the logical way to approach things, not to mention, the PIRATE way. I want all you have, and give nothing in return. You can't expect players to go against logic. It wouldn't make sense to fill your ship up with loot beforehand just so it's a more fair proposition.

    You want to have the full PvP experience, yet have issues with risking your own loot?

    You misunderstand. I don't WANT the full PvP experience, actually I could care less about it. I'm saying it doesn't work, because this is a progression centered game, and anyone who plays with that principle in mind will avoid PvP combat 90% of the time, because it isn't worth it, because the guaranteed loot on your ship is worth more than the stack of maybes that include maybe losing all your loot, maybe defeating your opponent and finding nothing on their ship, and maybe, just maybe, actually leaving with more in hand than you previously had. This is a gambler's game, and most players are not gamblers. Most players would rather see 1-2-3 hours of grinding pay off, than risking it all for a fight. The few who wouldn't... well, they won't make much difference, because it's pretty difficult to fight a ship that actively tries to avoid you. So yea, PvP doesn't make too much sense in this game.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @ilumineir sagte in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @bugaboo-bill said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @ilumineir

    all who limit themself in the way they aproach SoT chosse to do so.
    If you welcpme PvP when you do PvE and if you take the opportunities to PvP while you do PvE then you are fine.
    Else you limit yourself.

    Is that right, though? I mean, let's see how the game is intended to be played. It is made pretty clear, that the game is centered around progression

    i wholeheartidly disagree - progression need to be seconded, it only horizontal and not gamechanging.
    If people are only working off stuff to progress, they miss the whole point about having a "social eperience" SoT want to be and to have a pirate adventure!

    , finding/stealing/gathering loot, be it a chest, a crate of rum, or the flag of a sunken ship, and selling it. So the game is meant to be played in a way where you focus on progressing through ranks, and earning rewards.
    Well i can tell you i did just play and immerse and most of the things happened by the way. I also focussed on gettng this or that cosmetic, but i have the most fun, if i have no specific goals.
    The best story i can tell are those we just roamed the seas and did whatever ame across.
    That being said, PvP just doesn't fit well into this whole shebang.

    because imho you perceive the game wrong.

    Ships on one server are few and far between, and even if you stumble upon a ship, there's a good chance your own ship is carrying a considerable amount of loot - aka potential progression. A player who is playing the game in the intended, progression-centered way will more often than not avoid combat because, more often than not, fighting another ship is not worth the risk of losing your own loot.

    taking it all too serious?
    I know people hoard loot extra and set sail to fight others, so that if they loose the other has something to loot.
    good sportmanship, rarely seen.
    there are also PvP only players who are only out to SoS (sink on sight) and refuse the loot. they are just out to sink you and sail away, let loot sink to davy jones locker.

    So you're in a scenario where PvP opportunities are naturally scarce

    idk what timezone or servers you are playing on, but i barely have seen an empty server and everywhere i see a ship sailing around, and not only sloops but recently also many brigantines and galleones. All potential loot.
    PvP in a open world game is not an Arena matchmaking game.
    To sink someone at an Outpost is just dumb, if i want to steal loot, i observe and hit when its the right time!
    Open world sandbox/ seabo PvP.
    there is no quick hop in and get it.
    Some hop servers to find active FotD for PVP or active Fort in general what is as lame as to play on Alliance servers imho.
    they are cheesing all and everything - my claim:
    stop gaming the system, start playing games!
    immerse and #bemorepirate!

    , and even the few that pop up will mostly be avoided for the sake of progression.

    i see , you seem not to be out for having a pirate adventure, but to work off stuff and progress in the next online treadmill ^^ (bad assumption, sorry)
    the ocd completionists pay the bill and i have fun beeing an online pirate :D

    The way I see, PvP just doesn't quite work in this game, because it hardly ever happens if you play the game the way it is intended.

    the game is meant to be an cooperative and competetive online adventure and so called "social experience"!
    If you grind and progress only you miss some points of playing games in general.
    Playing games is not about beeing efficient, not about completing or working off stuff. this can all be part of playing games, but if you focus on this you already have unlearned to "play". no offense!!!
    Yeah we all want to win (progress) but we play for having fun and if you are a sour loser playing ludo with your family, then what would they tell you?
    Same for SoT.
    SoT is a game like every game, we like to win, but the intention to play is not to allways win, but to have fun, even or esepacially if you loose!!!

    Now, Rare MAY say that they intend the game to be played in a more PvP-y way, but their game is built in a way that says the opposite. The game is centered around progression, and PvP for the most part goes against progression. It just doesn't work.

    Try to change your pov and think of it as the intended way to play the game is not progression, but to have fun, immerse, to be more pirate and all of that.

    why do you think progression is horizontal and cosmetics only?
    because it means so much?
    No, because it means not nothing, but also not very much!

    Progression is a small bait about cosmetics only, what you need to be able is to immerse and have a funny pirate adventure online!

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @ilumineir said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @ilumineir

    Therefore you want to bring nothing to the treasure pot, but want to get all the spoils.

    Exactly, because that is the logical way to approach things, not to mention, the PIRATE way. I want all you have, and give nothing in return. You can't expect players to go against logic. It wouldn't make sense to fill your ship up with loot beforehand just so it's a more fair proposition.

    Exactly: You are going to a pirate and state: I want to fight you for all you have and have NOTHING for you!

    Explain to me exactly what their reason would be to fight you? I personally don't stock the ship specifically to fight, I go around gathering loot; be it through PvE or PvP.

    You really don't need much to have peoples greed kick in. Just a couple of well placed chests, blinging in the rear of their ship.

    You are forgetting that you are a pirate, but so are they! Your argument it is the pirate way, is the exact same reason why they don't engage with you. You want a pirate battle, you might need to lure them in? That is why it is better just to do both the PvE and PvP when it looks good?

    You want to have the full PvP experience, yet have issues with risking your own loot?

    You misunderstand. I don't WANT the full PvP experience, actually I could care less about it. I'm saying it doesn't work, because this is a progression centered game, and anyone who plays with that principle in mind will avoid PvP combat 90% of the time, because it isn't worth it, because the guaranteed loot on your ship is worth more than the stack of maybes that include maybe losing all your loot, maybe defeating your opponent and finding nothing on their ship, and maybe, just maybe, actually leaving with more in hand than you previously had. This is a gambler's game, and most players are not gamblers. Most players would rather see 1-2-3 hours of grinding pay off, than risking it all for a fight. The few who wouldn't... well, they won't make much difference, because it's pretty difficult to fight a ship that actively tries to avoid you. So yea, PvP doesn't make too much sense in this game.

    People going out to PvE to gather guaranteed loot means that there are worthy targets to plunder. Once you spot a potential target, take a moment to see what they are up to? Part of pirating is also being able to identify and be able to engage with good targets, be it at range or having a scout move in.

    I enjoy the PvP in the game, I tend to scope things out while in a big crew. Leave them to head on to our PvE goals while I check the surroundings, if it is interesting I have them turn around.

    PvP in most games is a gamble when it comes to loot, it might be nothing, a little or the biggest pile of treasure you have ever seen. That is the point of player generated content, it is not controlled by the game. Yet if you win you take it all, so if you are confident enough what you show boat will never be theirs.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @bugaboo-bill said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    why do you think progression is horizontal and cosmetics only?
    because it means so much?

    Balance. Simply balance. Because it would be pretty bad for new players if veteran sailors would have faster ships, better cannons, and an overall advantage over them. The easiest way to balance a game is to have every player on the same level.

    That doesn't change the fact that virtually everything you do in this game is tied to progression. Digging up chests, killing skeletons, sinking ships, all of them tie into progression of some sorts. You get loot to earn money and reputation, you earn reputation to unlock new cosmetics which you can spend your money on. Rinse and repeat. This game is ALL about progression, every square inch of the mechanics is designed that way. You can't just say it doesn't matter, because that is the core mechanic of the game. The very base of it. Work and reward, digging up chests, and cashing it in. And the skeleton ships, kraken, even PvP, though it doesn't work, ties into this principle. Can you cash in your loot (reward) before the another player takes it, or a sea monster wrecks your ship, forever sinking it along with your loot. This creates tension because you might lose what you've worked for, but makes the reward all the more pleasing. This is one of the most basic psychological aspects a game implements, and it shows how SoT is really, honestly, truly designed around progression.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    You want a pirate battle, you might need to lure them in?

    That is the thing, you're explaining how I could go about PvP, but not why should I. I generally don't want a pirate battle, I'm not going out of my way to hunt people down (we tried that once, and it was a bore), I'm doing what feels the best course of action. And the best course of action is very, very rarely involves attacking another ship, especially since that other ship, if they know even a little bit about how sailing works in this game, can lose you pretty easily if they are not interested. So the thing is, I'm not interested if I have lots of loot on my ship, they are not interested if I have no loot, so PvP only happens if I do have a little bit of loot, not enough for me to really care about, but enough to pique their attention, and of course because I'm not deliberately trying to PvP, all this just happens by chance. That's next to never.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @ilumineir said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    You want a pirate battle, you might need to lure them in?

    That is the thing, you're explaining how I could go about PvP, but not why should I. I generally don't want a pirate battle, I'm not going out of my way to hunt people down (we tried that once, and it was a bore), I'm doing what feels the best course of action. And the best course of action is very, very rarely involves attacking another ship, especially since that other ship, if they know even a little bit about how sailing works in this game, can lose you pretty easily if they are not interested. So the thing is, I'm not interested if I have lots of loot on my ship, they are not interested if I have no loot, so PvP only happens if I do have a little bit of loot, not enough for me to really care about, but enough to pique their attention, and of course because I'm not deliberately trying to PvP, all this just happens by chance. That's next to never.

    I am explaining to you, how get get a nice PvP experience. Your question is: really fun? The answer is if approached correctly yes, yes it is.

    If you just want to go out and hunt with good loot as a consistent return? You should go out and seek for servers where crews are doing cloud events; FotD etc. Server hopping is still a thing. If you aren't offering anything to the fight, the big whales as you state; will just run away.

    Whether or not you enjoy PvP is all about your own approach, your own enjoyment of a good battle, etc. You state it is based on chance, yet if you see sails out on the horizon - do you ensure your ship goes closer or further away during your process etc.? You act like your choices don't influence your likelihood of encountering others in battle.

  • Octopus Lime
    Master
    Founder

    @weedstar-deluxe said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    did yesterday athene runs and a guy hided for idk 90 minutes under a barrel in my crowsnest,at the end he killed us both when i climbed up the crowsnest with a megkeg,im sure the whole time no mermaid appeared?

    A mermaid will not spawn if someone is on your ship, it would only spawn if they went into the water.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @cotu42

    You state it is based on chance, yet if you see sails out on the horizon - do you ensure your ship goes closer or further away during your process etc.? You act like your choices don't influence your likelihood of encountering others in battle.

    I go closer IF the circumstances say it is worth it. But the circumstances almost never say that. As stated, I (and I believe most other players as well) will not engage in PvP unless we believe it is to our benefit. And the other ship - probably - won't engage in PvP unless they believe it to be to their benefit. And the criteria for that are kinda extinguishing each other - little to no loot on our ship, possibly lots of loot on theirs. This will almost never stand true for both ships. And the way sailing works in this game, if you yourself don't want to engage in PvP, then chances are you can avoid that. So people avoid it, and they avoid it quite a lot. As much as the 'threat' of PvP adds to the excitement of doing PvE, it really... doesn't happen all that much. Because it's not really worth it to anyone, unless they want to go against what the game is apparently designed as.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @ilumineir that is your assessment, for me it is nearly always worth having a snoop around. Your judgement value of gold, treasure or PvP engagement is not universal. What you consider a worthy amount of loot to avoid fighting with is not the same for everyone... I have solo attacked people with tens of thousands on board or turned around and met the attacker. For me the risk of losing the treasure is not the biggest issue at all... if it was a good engagement, fun and a new story to tell that is all I need out of it (not that I don't like treasure, I rather have that as well).

    The ability to avoid and chase: being a good PvPer means you also need to be a good sailor, just like being a good PvEer means you need to be a good sailor.

    I avoid those that I don't want to engage with and I force engagements when I do. Being good at the games allows you to choose your battles, which is why when I engage in combat I have some shiny and glowing spots on my ship to indicate I ain't empty.

  • COMBATxKITTY
    Commander
    Insider

    @ilumineir Nope, nope nope. Not in this game. Its a total snooze fest. Don't get me wrong I enjoy this game and accept the PvP for what it is. Also some may not agree with me, some may think the PvP in this game is the best thing since the release of Zelda and that is fine.

    The other night me and my friend decided to be ship serial killers ( we are two weirdo's and we do theme nights). We have sunk ships and killed both scrawny and chubby pirates alike but usually in self defense. Anyways on this night we sunk two ships. First off we had to sail all over the place and while the hunt is part of the fun of PvP this hunt felt ridiculous. I felt like I was a little kid again looking for the unicorn running around the city block that my older cousin told me about(never found it incase you are wondering).I thought to myself is this what it is like to be a sole PvP'er in adventure mode? If so then bless their hearts and they deserve every last trinket they can steal.

    Anywho, ok so we finally find a ship and sink them after 45 minutes. Then that was it. If we wanted to go sink and kill them again we would have to sail to wherever they spawned to and people seem to spawn far. It just wasnt satisfying for my taste maybe some enjoy this but I like fast paced PvP, bam your dead bam your dead, bam your dead , this was just bam your sunk, time to grill up a pork chop. Sure we could just hop on a ship not sink it and spawn kill them over and over until they scuttle but I am not a PvP spawn camper and also the sinking of the ship to me is the more enjoyable part as I find the actual combat part sub par. I guess the point of PvP in adventure mode is to simply sink a ship, hope their is treasure and move on so maybe this is how it should be.

    On to the subpar combat. Do not even get me started on the poor mechanics of how some shots do not even register and the un-buildable skills along with the never ending stamina. Really? non stop bunny hop? How about a stamina bar so some thought actually needs to go into it? How about having us build up our aim and our stamina? Just suggestions.

    The weapons? Five measly bullets? Three guns to choose from and you do not even get to carry them all? What kind of sick joke is that? Hand to hand combat? Oh that's right there is none. Our hands are only good for stuffing fruit down our throats, wouldnt it be fun to be able to crack a coconut over someones head? Or at least punch somebody every now and then in their noggin. Also no prone position? Really? I do this thing where I wait for someone to deliver a reaper chest, I set up an explosive barrel at the entry way and snipe it as the unsuspecting pirate skips their way through the door. I must do this while standing, would be so much better if my pirate could snipe that baby while on her perfectly toned and flat tummy.

    One more thing I want to add is ship fights are fun. Ive gotten into them plenty times and a good ole cannon ball fight is glorious. However nobody seems to want to do that. They just want to shoot over and try to board non stop, hopping around my ship like a frog who just smoked a bad batch of crack. Boring and predictable.

    Maybe I should try Arena? Anyone who does that is it more ship to ship combat oriented and fast paced?

    Rare really needs to hire me to work in their PvP department. Im outa work due to covid19 so I am available. If I am hired guarantee we would be beating fellow pirates over their head with our shovel by the next patch update.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @ilumineir that is your assessment, for me it is nearly always worth having a snoop around. Your judgement value of gold, treasure or PvP engagement is not universal.

    I mean, there is only two real values I consider, as it is the value the game is built around: progression, and risk. Gold, treasure and PvP engagement can be, and even if subconsciously, WILL be broken down into progression value, and the risk it brings. And the thing is, engaging in PvP very rarely offers good progression value alongside low risk, in general, it provides the worst ratio of the bunch. Hence, it is a gamble. And while it is true that my judgement is not universal, as it doesn't apply to every player, I believe I have a good basis to say it applies to the majority, the average player. The average player is

    • Focused on the aspect the game promotes as primary (progression)
    • Is not a gambler (might get greedy enough to "squeeze one more island in", but never greedy enough to risk outright PvP with loot on board)

    Do try to prove me wrong, though.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @ilumineir

    My pirates most important progression:

    • My abilities
    • My choices
    • My knowledge

    Why?

    • It increases my ability to acquire loot.
    • It increases my ability to steal loot.
    • It increases my ability to enjoy the game.
    • I can never lose it!

    The game is about the journey, not the gold.... a good tale to tell is worth more than the gold of a chest. You don't have to agree, you can care about your gold and your treasure on the ship.

    Personally I enjoy variety, I will risk what I have for a good battle in victory or in loss and I enjoy switching up the game session... sure you can do the same best voyage over and over again every time you play, avoid all player conflict or chances to steal loot. Variety is what makes the game fun, some sessions are more gold driven, others lore driven and others pvp or a mix.

    Risk it all for a good time, if it sinks it sinks... if it is stolen it is stolen. If I had fun, no harm no foul.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @combatxkitty said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    One more thing I want to add is ship fights are fun. Ive gotten into them plenty times and a good ole cannon ball fight is glorious. However nobody seems to want to do that. They just want to shoot over and try to board non stop, hopping around my ship like a frog who just smoked a bad batch of crack. Boring and predictable.

    Yes, that is one of my concerns as well. Fighting in this game should be about ship to ship fights, cannonballs flying, maneuvering and counter-maneuvering, and not this 'live cannonball' attraction, that is just ridiculous, and should be removed from the game altogether. And sure, releasing the anchor of another ship is a valid move, but it's made way too trivial this way. In real life, boarding the ship is the hard part, as you need to get up in their face for it, and you can't just pull a Matilda Richter and yeet yourself over. As for P2P combat, it is quite limited, but it would be fine as long as the S2S combat took the majority of the fight. Which it doesn't.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    Variety is what makes the game fun, some sessions are more gold driven, others lore driven and others pvp or a mix.

    Sure, variety is what makes the game fun, but if the game doesn't give incentive for variety, then there will be no variety in general. What should I do?

    • I can dig up treasures, which is fun, reading maps, solving riddles, traversing the seas looking for chests and trinkets.
    • I could hunt skeletons, which quickly gets boring because it mostly consists of running aimlessly on islands until you chance upon the trigger zone of the skeletons, then engage in land combat which is pretty lackluster in this game, and collect the same sort of rewards every time - skulls. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, but always skulls.
    • I could do merchant quests which are... pretty boring, because nothing really happens. You go to an island, talk to an NPC, then go to another island and give the cargo to the other NPC, or go around chasing chickens and snakes. It is more chill, and it is lower risk, but not quite fun.
    • I could go and take other players' loot! Fighting, combat, excitement! Except... you go around for hours and hardly meet any players who bring either a good fight, or considerable loot. It is bland, boring, and doesn't even pay off.

    I mean... there is a good reason why me, and all my buddies, without a word, agree on doing Gold hoarder everytime we play. That is the only thing that's actually interesting, besides tall tales and some events.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @ilumineir

    You state digging up treasure is fun, some might disagree.
    You state hunting skeletons is boring, some might disagree. (btw skulls are cool, they are great decoration on your ship with sound effects and glows)
    You state merchans are pretty boring, yet some might enjoy the chill a lot?
    You state that PvP isn't lucrative enough, it matters how you go hunt. People hop servers when they notice it bled dry or even seek specific events that are busy.

    The incentive in an open world game comes from within.
    The game offers an arrange of things to do, what you want to do is on you? You enjoy gold hoarding, I enjoy variety and seek that out. There is nothing wrong with your preference, yet I would get bored very fast and I enjoy gold hoarders as well (chill, relax, solo, filling up my upper deck) and still will head with it all into battle. Personal preferences, risks you take, awards you seek... it based on the question: what type of pirate will you be? How do you respond to the sails on the horizon?

    That is the true determination here... I get curious and check it out, you sail away and keep your treasure safe. The choice is on you. What you enjoy and what someone else enjoys is extremely subjective, some people enjoy sailing around seeking others while others seek safety in avoiding them. It is a shared world, you will enjoy some aspects more than others... that doesn't mean that it has no value or isn't fun. Sure it might not line your pockets in the same way, but if you truly would just be out for gold: Fort of the Damned is by far the most lucrative event and nearly always guarantees some pirate combat.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    I think it's fun.

  • BoomTownBoss
    Rogue
    Insider

    The pvp players don't aimlessly sail around. They aimlessly hop servers looking for emissary ships and forts.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    You state digging up treasure is fun, some might disagree.

    I state digging up treasure is fun, and continue to detail why. It involves map reading, riddle solving, it is an interactive activity, and there is a sense of reward just by completing the riddle, or digging into treasure first try.

    You state hunting skeletons is boring, some might disagree. (btw skulls are cool, they are great decoration on your ship with sound effects and glows)

    I state hunting skeletons is boring, and continue to detail why. Unlike treasure hunting, where you are solving riddles, or reading maps, you are forced to literally run around aimlessly until you happen upon the correct place. There is no sense of reward here, because there is no challenge put in front of you. You don't overcome some obstacle (riddle, map, etc), you have no clue where exactly the skellies will be, you just 'try'. And thus, the "yay I solved the riddle" gets replaced by "heckin finally, I triggered them". Bad design, if you ask me.

    You state merchans are pretty boring, yet some might enjoy the chill a lot?

    Some might, the majority won't. It IS boring compared to the other two, the only redeeming factor is that it really is more chill. Still, we can agree that 'chill and uneventful' is not what most players have in mind when loading SoT.

    You state that PvP isn't lucrative enough, it matters how you go hunt. People hop servers when they notice it bled dry or even seek specific events that are busy.

    • Server hopping is an exploit, or 'out of the box' at the least, and thus, it has no bearing in this argument (remember, I'm arguing how the game's design is against PvP fighting)
    • Seeking events might work if you are going for PvP, but if you need specific events to partake in meaningful PvP combat, that shines a bad light on the core game which should also be able to neatly fit PvP into it's gameplay. With this principle there very well could be dedicated PvP and PvE servers because the two just doesn't seem to really mix. Of course I'm kidding. The thing is, PvE content needs the presence of PvP for that extra intensity and excitement, whereas PvP relies on PvE content to be worthwhile. But their connection is flawed, on a PvE point of view, the extra excitement comes from avoiding PvP, whereas on the PvP side you can't really fight someone who tries to avoid you. I mean, you might, but not many would willingly engage in 30-40 minute chases to find that out.

    On a side note, "some might disagree" is not an argument, it's a cheap way to try to discredit an argument. "Cheap", because it doesn't have any thought behind it, and "try", because it really doesn't work.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @combatxkitty

    Arena is where I go when I want to instant brawl. The new arena is just one big brawl festivity, it is a nicer way if you just want a quick PvP fix - for me Adventure mode PvP is something you do while also PvEing, just going out hunting... tends to be a let down, unless you hop for FotD I guess.

  • Ilumineir
    Sailor

    @boomtownboss said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    The pvp players don't aimlessly sail around. They aimlessly hop servers looking for emissary ships and forts.

    And since server hopping is an exploit, not an intended feature of the game, then it doesn't bear any weight when discussing how the game is intended to be played.

  • COMBATxKITTY
    Commander
    Insider

    @cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:

    @combatxkitty

    Arena is where I go when I want to instant brawl. The new arena is just one big brawl festivity, it is a nicer way if you just want a quick PvP fix - for me Adventure mode PvP is something you do while also PvEing, just going out hunting... tends to be a let down, unless you hop for FotD I guess.

    Okie will give it a try one of these days. Thanks!

  • GutterAngel
    Captain
    Insider

    I'm curious what server type this was on. Xbox players complain about seeing too many ships, PC players don't see enough ships to get too much anything. PC servers are gutted until steam release.

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