Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...

  • Ghostpaw
    Legend

    @surveyorpete said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @budzzz77

    I get so tired of the argument that you can only be griefed by people on your crew.

    "Griefing" is any action intended to intended solely to ruin another player's enjoyment of the game, with no intention of stealing loot or gaining rep. I would argue that someone that spawn kills a crew with no loot, for no reason than its fun, IS griefing. If they are doing so, while their crewmates empty resource barrels, fine. But if there is nothing else to steal, and their ship is not sinking, spawn-killing is griefing; especially if gleefully taunting them while you do it. It does not matter that they have the option to scuttle. Someone being assaulted in the street may be able to run away; but it does not change the fact someone was trying to assault them.

    Playing the game, and being a pirate is not griefing. Not playing the game, but using it as a way of being an antisocial distruptor of other people's fun is.

    If there is nothing to steal and no supplies to take, then I suppose the player refusing to scuttle is griefing based on your definition. The losing player(s) have nothing to lose but they insist on coming back over and over. The other crew might actually need to clear the area/island to work on their own goals. Until the other player (who as you said has absolutely nothing to lose) scuttles the crew is forced to wait on deck and kill them until the player finally gives in and leaves.

    Now let’s stay on topic shall we?

  • MarsMayflower
    Captain
    Insider

    pirates will be pirates.

  • Xultanis Dragon
    Sailor

    @noodlejubblies

    Nothing you described is considered greifing. Sorry.

    @Baq99

    The game openly lets you know how many ships in that server are doing a particular emissary mission.

    This is like an impromptu alliance. Find the ships and say "hey there are reaper ships around, would you like to work together to tackle them?"

    Its a bad habit of players to look at the initial problem and think they are locked in a room with no way out, ignoring the windows and stairs and all the other facets of escape.

    The more I think about this, the more ingenious I think this update is. If Rare can find a way to lock down those opt out alliances servers, I think they really struck gold here.

  • Xultanis Dragon
    Sailor

    @surveyorpete said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @budzzz77

    I get so tired of the argument that you can only be griefed by people on your crew.

    "Griefing" is any action intended to intended solely to ruin another player's enjoyment of the game, with no intention of stealing loot or gaining rep. I would argue that someone that spawn kills a crew with no loot, for no reason than its fun, IS griefing. If they are doing so, while their crewmates empty resource barrels, fine. But if there is nothing else to steal, and their ship is not sinking, spawn-killing is griefing; especially if gleefully taunting them while you do it. It does not matter that they have the option to scuttle. Someone being assaulted in the street may be able to run away; but it does not change the fact someone was trying to assault them.

    Playing the game, and being a pirate is not griefing. Not playing the game, but using it as a way of being an antisocial distruptor of other people's fun is.

    Greifing was original coined to determine when a high level player was circumventing/exploiting in game mechanics to avoid punishment or repercussions while keeping other players from playing the game out right.

    Example - A high level player attacking a low level area killing players and keeping them from collecting their bodies. The in game mechanic to stop this would be the city guards but the high level player in question is in a spot where the guards can not touch him.

    That is greifing.

    You can only be greifed from your own crew mates.

    Through repeated use of casuals believing that every time their feelings are hurt they are being greifed, the word greifing is now used as a blanket term. They did the same thing with toxic behavoir and with harassment and everything else.

    They all mean the same thing because weak minded players complain about every little act of aggression.

    It matters immensely if they have the option to scuttle because of that option it means that they can effectively LEAVE the area at any time and continue to play the game.

    Thats like a Vegan going into a BBQ restaurant and demanding that because their feelings are hurt the Restaurant has to close down and go somewhere else, WHEN THEY COULD JUST LEAVE THE RESTAURANT.

    Sorry broski. Not greifing, scuttle your boat, stop being a immature and just accept your defeat and move on.

  • SirJamezTown
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @noodlejubblies I actually completely agree with you. Once I saw this my heart sank. To make matters even worse they made is so if they hit level 5 they can just see everyone... I am a little sad and after 2 play sessions of being constantly dealing with other players i may be done for a bit. Leave pvp in the pvp mode.

    I dont mind the occasional pvp but man. this is ridiculous

  • SirJamezTown
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @faceyourdemon True but thats always been true. Instead of people attacking ships because they want to, now for a lot people will do it bc they "have" to. If there is progression or a way to min/max (aka have a rep) people will do it.

    every one of my play sessions today have been running from reapers. usually its about 2-3 a week and people give up if I run. now they never stop becuase the only reason they are playing is to sink my ship

  • Lord Spark 0
    Castaway

    @callmebackdraft

    There he is posting the same cut n paste quote from all the other threads.

    "We talked about the magic of seeing another ship on the horizon and not knowing their intentions."

    Well, Emissaries make it far more easier to predict a players intentions. If the Reaper 5 ship is pointing directly at you on the map and move towards you, you can bet their intention is to attack you. So much for the magic and not knowing..

    That was not even hard to point that out. Rare may have said a few things in the past about this or that, but they also said that this is an 'evolving' game. So, though they had thoughts, it can change. Its that simple.

    And, they added audio bits to spyglasses when looking at Skeleton ships and now with the new Emissary ships. I guess they are making it easier and more casual than what was the initial 'intention' of the game...

  • FaceYourDemon
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @sirjameztown Because its new, let it sink for a week and the seas will calm down.
    Dont get me wrong i love friendly interactions and mess around with other crews its awesome and some people claim like its not a thing anymore but its a lie many players are reasonable and yes now people are a bit more hostile and sometimes the seas were very friendly so everyone gets what the want in the end.
    People are afraid of changes and they dont want to see the game leaving their comfort zone but i think that we should be glad that Rare have passion.

  • RedNoodlePanda
    Marauder

    @surveyorpete said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @budzzz77

    I get so tired of the argument that you can only be griefed by people on your crew.

    "Griefing" is any action intended to intended solely to ruin another player's enjoyment of the game, with no intention of stealing loot or gaining rep. I would argue that someone that spawn kills a crew with no loot, for no reason than its fun, IS griefing. If they are doing so, while their crewmates empty resource barrels, fine. But if there is nothing else to steal, and their ship is not sinking, spawn-killing is griefing; especially if gleefully taunting them while you do it. It does not matter that they have the option to scuttle. Someone being assaulted in the street may be able to run away; but it does not change the fact someone was trying to assault them.

    Playing the game, and being a pirate is not griefing. Not playing the game, but using it as a way of being an antisocial distruptor of other people's fun is.

    This is exactly what I'm trying to say. But the devs don't care. Their solution is "lol scuttle ship join new server." Inflicting pointless misery on people is griefing. It's pretty much the definition that's in most terms of agreement. However rare refuses to see it as a problem and is now introducing content that if anything PROMOTES that type of gameplay.

    @sirjameztown said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @noodlejubblies I actually completely agree with you. Once I saw this my heart sank. To make matters even worse they made is so if they hit level 5 they can just see everyone... I am a little sad and after 2 play sessions of being constantly dealing with other players i may be done for a bit. Leave pvp in the pvp mode.

    I dont mind the occasional pvp but man. this is ridiculous

    Yeah had the same experience. It'll either quiet down, or this is going to be the new normal, in which case a lot of casual sailors, like me, will just uninstall. Which is really depressing because I freaking love this game. But just being relentlessly murdered by neckbeards? Doesn't make a gal wanna play.

  • PropaneDevil
    Castaway

    @noodlejubblies
    I 100% agree with this. Even more now than ever because RARE came out with this new update which I admit is a pretty good one...EXCEPT THERES ONE MAJOR MAJOR PROBLEM, The griefing got 10 times worse. Your telling me that a Galleon with a full crew can just take out a random sloop of 2 players and get rep for that? I spent 3 hours doing merchant voyages just to get sunk by 2 different galleons under the same flag. I understand that it’s (part of the game, uh huh) but when I have to worry about 7 of those ships hunting tiny ships for rep then the game becomes unendurable and infuriating. How can the developers actually believe that it’s okay for amassive ship to sink a sloop and get FULL rep for it. Inexcusable.

  • SurveyorPete
    Legend
    Insider

    @noodlejubblies

    Please do not misrepresent my words. Being an emissary for the Reaper's Bones, sinking other emissaries and taking their flag is not griefing. Yes, this update promotes PvP, but PvP - for loot and rewards - is not griefing. I was simply arguing against the idea, often heard, that you can only "grief" your own crew.

    I will be sailing the seas and allowing Reaper's emissaries to chase me for miles, only to scuttle at the last minute. I will not do so for reward, but simply to waste their time, taunt them, and ruin their day. That is griefing them, too. ;-)

  • III porker III
    Captain
    Insider

    I figured that I would come over here to the forums and see posts just like this one. you do know that the reaper faction boats are marked on the map at all times right? you do know that you are able to move to a new server or learn to fight right? these types of posts do nothing but make the op look badly. I made over 1 mil in gold today by chasing down grad 5 reapers boats while flying my own reaper emissary flag. sink a boat, sell loot and flag hop to the new server. I say you need to stop thinking that voyages are the only thing this game has to offer. maybe try to steal some loot and learn to pvp. then when you get attacked you don't have to run.

  • Sun Shottt
    Insider

    ahahahaha. u realize thats the entire premise and purpose of this video game right? its literally a pirate game that is about sinking people. its not called “griefing”, its called playing the game. whiney people like you ruin the community and ruin the game. go play a single player-campaign video game if you’re so scared of other players.

  • TubianSayne
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @noodlejubblies

    Hi! Barely started a voyage after the update to see a reaper gally terrorizing the server, they were grade 5..saw me (sloop) across the map and I could tell they targeted me before I even physically saw them. I dumped all my loot, led them away from it, led them on a marry chase and then scuttled. They didnt care about the loot or the flag, it's like rare lit a fire under the trolls..I couldnt hear them but my PC teammate said they were talking stuff the whole time even though we showed minimal signs of aggression. For the time being until the dust settles I will keep server hopping until I see no reapers and if one shows up I'll hop again. I'll happily accept random pvp encounters, alliance betrayals, sneak thefts etc but I'm not interested in dealing with a gally that likes to hunt sloops for sport..can see me no matter what I do and actually gets rewarded for it. Literally having a reaper gally on a server makes any other emmisary impossible if your a smaller ship. I suggest you do like me and keep hopping servers if you see a reaper on the map and be vigilant and keep checking the map to see if one pops up.

  • ThatOneGuy4239
    Commander
    Insider

    @noodlejubblies This is a PvPvE game! It is a mix of PvP and PvE at ALL TIMES. The whole thing about seeing other ships is knowing that any one of them could be potential allies or enemies. The devs have made it abundantly clear that PvE only servers will never happen, as it will take out a massive part of this game. They have talked of private servers for special events, but these would provide no gold/rep.

    I do not mean any disrespect when I say this, but if you do not agree with the PvPvE gamestyle of Sea of Thieves, then this is not the game for you.

  • ajm123
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @noodlejubblies how is it greifing when you are labeled on the map from the start of your voyage wether your reapers 1 or 5. It's up to you to watch out for us if anything we are at a disadvantage because we have to sell at the reapers hideout and we are always marked on the map leaving us open to rowboat plays ext

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @lord-szarvas yeah i come back with those copy pastes because it save me a hell of a lot of typing each and every time someone brings up the “i hate pve side of the game” point, i typed it once and can share it multiple times.

    Its just called smart usage of my time, same as the Rare devs and moderators on these forums use it time after time again when someone breaks rules or the like.

    Anyway back to the point, yes this game is ever evolving and ever changing, some of my points are quite recent (eg the dev stream i linked) but some and even though the game is ever evolving and changing the core game design will not change as fast.

    When looking trough your spyglass their is a clear distinction between skelly ships and player ships, even from miles away and without a sound effect that plays.

    Time after time the devs have pitted players together to get interactions between them (reaper runs, thieves haven athena runs, just 1 active skull fort just to name a few) and while in each situation players can and will have a choice in their actions and inactions taking away 50% of the PvPvE option (by creating pve servers or any other option coined by the people that ignore the second P in those 5 letters) it literally kills 50% of the game AND 90% of any of the risk in the game.

    Now they doubled down on the part that fighting is a part of the game by introducing a single faction that gives better rewards for stealing, killing and sinking enemy ships and alot of people start realising “ow wait this isnt sailing simulator 20##” and everything is doom and gloom again.

  • Octopus Lime
    Master
    Founder

    @noodlejubblies said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @callmebackdraft they don't punish griefing though. Like actual griefing. Spawn killing, repeatedly sinking and hunting down and sinking, etc. Actual proper griefing, they just don't care about.

    The obvious solution would be to make it so you can flag yourself for PvP or PvE in any server. Make it so you can't change it while in a server, but that it's a thing. That way people who just want to hunt for treasure can without being forced to server hop by some angry child who murders you repeatedly with a blunderbuss. But they'll never do that because there's too many aggressive trashcans who would quit playing the game if PvE was an option.

    Instead of trying to change the core concept of this amazing game, why don't you try looking for one that more suits your taste?

  • Octopus Lime
    Master
    Founder

    @tubiansayne said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @noodlejubblies

    Hi! Barely started a voyage after the update to see a reaper gally terrorizing the server, they were grade 5..saw me (sloop) across the map and I could tell they targeted me before I even physically saw them. I dumped all my loot, led them away from it, led them on a marry chase and then scuttled. They didnt care about the loot or the flag, it's like rare lit a fire under the trolls..I couldnt hear them but my PC teammate said they were talking stuff the whole time even though we showed minimal signs of aggression. For the time being until the dust settles I will keep server hopping until I see no reapers and if one shows up I'll hop again. I'll happily accept random pvp encounters, alliance betrayals, sneak thefts etc but I'm not interested in dealing with a gally that likes to hunt sloops for sport..can see me no matter what I do and actually gets rewarded for it. Literally having a reaper gally on a server makes any other emmisary impossible if your a smaller ship. I suggest you do like me and keep hopping servers away from the reaper trolls until they get bored and go back to fortnight or something lol

    Good to see that you think anyone who will be using Reapers Bones is a 'Troll that plays fortnite' great job

  • jumli7
    Lord
    Insider
    Founder

    @noodlejubblies said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @callmebackdraft they don't punish griefing though. Like actual griefing. Spawn killing, repeatedly sinking and hunting down and sinking, etc. Actual proper griefing, they just don't care about.

    I wouldn't say that's "griefing", it's just part of the game. Hunting and sinking griefing? Really? I'm not really sure which direction the players are going here.

    Actual "proper griefing" like you mentioned, is just and only Team Killing FYI. (and loot bailing, etc)

    Yes spawn killing might be annoying, but there is a "Scuttle" option for a reason.

    And I don't think there really is a good solution for "spawn killing" otherwise they would've done it already.
    Pretty much the only solution would be that every player has a 1 life, and after you die you change servers or something.
    There's your spawn kill fix.

    Happy sailing!

  • Noximilus
    Master
    Insider

    @NoodleJubblies Don't tag emissary, you'll be even safer than before since you'll be a less rewarding prey than emissary tagged pirates for your killer. Of course you will not gain as much rewards as emissaries, but that's just fair since you take less risks. The whole emissary content is about PvP, if you don't like PvP go for other PvE content. Sea of Thieves have plenty !

  • BudZzZ77
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @surveyorpete You have every right to leave the game just like you have every right to deal with that crew

  • Baq99
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @ghostpaw

    I was expecting this comment and a couple of people have mentioned it. If you are an emissary for anyone other than the Reaper's Bones, you cannot see other emissaries other than the Reaper's Bones. Simply put, you don't know where people on "your team" are on the map.

    The Reaper's Bones however are able to see all other Emissaries on the map including the Reaper's Bones ships making it much easier for them to find each other and team up. Reaper's Bones can just use the map to team up (or alliance if they want). All other emissaries will need to see ships on the horizon to possibly team up. It's stacked in the favour of Reaper's Bones hunting packs.

  • Ghostpaw
    Legend

    @noodlejubblies said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    Inflicting pointless misery on people is griefing. . It's pretty much the definition that's in most terms of agreement. However rare refuses to see it as a problem and is now introducing content that if anything PROMOTES that type of gameplay.

    Based on your definition, Rare has done something about it. They gave meaning to attacking other ships. If you opt into the emissary system then you are giving other players more reason to come after you. It stops being “pointless.”

  • dlCHIEF58
    Champion
    Insider

    @waronpants2664 said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @combatxkitty said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @noodlejubblies said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @callmebackdraft well then there game is going to die sooner rather than later. They've made it clear what part of their fanbase is important to them. And it's not casual players. I'm guessing the faction that rewards aggressive, jerkish gameplay is just the beginning of the end.

    People like to say that but actually the game is doing very well, just hit 10 million players.

    That number is very misleading and needs context. I'm not saying the game is dying, but 10 million isn't active players(pretty obvious based on matchmaking times). SoT is a gamepass game. Since it's "free" a huge number of people probably logged in once or twice, then uninstalled and never played again. But that's probably enough for Rare to count them as one of their players. A real number I would like to see are daily active player and monthly active players.

    Here you go, the closest thing you are going to get to active numbers. Thus far the game has been at the #14 most played game for the past 3 weeks and I se that going up after this update is figured in.

    Xbox Gameplay Chart: Fallout 76 is back

    Xbox Gameplay Chart: Fallout 76 is back

    This week sees some movement in the top ten, as GTA V boots Fortnite down a peg. There's more movement lower down, including the re-entrance of Fallout 76, following the release of the game's massive Wastelanders expansion.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @baq99 said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @ghostpaw

    I was expecting this comment and a couple of people have mentioned it. If you are an emissary for anyone other than the Reaper's Bones, you cannot see other emissaries other than the Reaper's Bones. Simply put, you don't know where people on "your team" are on the map.

    The Reaper's Bones however are able to see all other Emissaries on the map including the Reaper's Bones ships making it much easier for them to find each other and team up. Reaper's Bones can just use the map to team up (or alliance if they want). All other emissaries will need to see ships on the horizon to possibly team up. It's stacked in the favour of Reaper's Bones hunting packs.

    Crews that are sailing as an emissary for the same faction are not in the same team as you; they are your direct competition - they need the skulls / chests/ animals &c just as much as you do and only one crew can turn them in.

    The Reaper's Bones can only see other emissaries when they're grade V but they are shown to everybody else on the map as soon as they don their flag.

    If they got loot they only have one place to turn loot in; while you can choose to sail to 6 other outposts for most items.

    Hunter packs ? Just as the other emissaries the Reaper's Bones crews are each other's competition.

  • Friedwilly
    Lord
    Insider

    @noodlejubblies I hear ya, loud and clear!

    I absolutely love this game and I have never invested this much time in a game, other than WoW before Activision killed it.

    Unfortunately, the past couple of updates have been lack luster. Now the emissary update is a cool concept, but the side effect is that Rare is indirectly abandoning the casual solo player.

    I guess if I want to actually accomplish anything in this game now, it's time to brush off the ole Sea Dog boots and play some Arena?

  • Lord Spark 0
    Castaway

    @callmebackdraft

    I think you ought to know that the top ledger players have been grinding PvE. The Reapers Bones is no exception.

    Someone just posted on Reddit to being the first lvl 75 because all they did was get to Reapers Level 5 and grind Fort of the Damned for hours..

    People don't make PvP strict servers. I've never seen that. They always make PvE servers though. So maybe that's indicative of what's driving the game.

  • MrBadaBing
    Master
    Insider

    @sirjameztown said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    @noodlejubblies I actually completely agree with you. Once I saw this my heart sank. To make matters even worse they made is so if they hit level 5 they can just see everyone... I am a little sad and after 2 play sessions of being constantly dealing with other players i may be done for a bit. Leave pvp in the pvp mode.

    I dont mind the occasional pvp but man. this is ridiculous

    There is no "PvP" Mode. If you think Arena is PvP Mode you are WRONG. Arena is for Competitive Contests which is not PvP.

    This game is a PvEvP Sandbox Game.

    You think after a Day 1 Massive Update that you won't be dealing with busy servers where everyone is sailing looking to steal loot??? Come On Now...

    People buy and play this game thinking they won't come in contact with other players. This is a OPEN WORLD MULTIPLAYER GAME. Keyword "MULTIPLAYER"

    That's like playing Call of Duty without Guns or Fortnite without Building.... If you want a Pirate Game PvE only, then go play Atlas or Assassins Creed BF

  • Capt Soul Beard
    Commander
    Insider

    @noodlejubblies said in Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually...:

    Way to cater to the loud angry trashcans, Rare. Genius.

    It's actually people like you that scream the most on the forums. Hmmm...

  • Papy Pitch
    Commander
    Insider

    @noodlejubblies a dit dans Okay wait so Reaper's Bones is actually... :

    @callmebackdraft well then their game is going to die sooner rather than later.

    Oh yeah, I just love when people begin to play the little Nostradamus-game like they know exactly the future. Like there's absolutely no way you or your perception of what the game is could be wrong.

    A little reminder: The game was supposed to die 2 years ago if we listen to what people like you have said. Yet here we are.

  • Capt Pilotes
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    I think people don't understand that attacking other ship is not griefing.
    PS: If you don't become an emissary the Reapers at level 5 can't track you down

  • TubianSayne
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @octopus-lime

    Negative. Gally teams that chase me across the map insulting me and throwing slurs the whole time and continue to hunt me after I'm already defeated in 1 v 4 and 2 v 4 fights are "reaper trolls" such as my story highlighted. Regular reaper players are fine but since I cant tell the difference from long range I'll avoid all of em 🤷‍♂️ still smart to server hop if I'm on a sloop since trying to do emmisary stuff on a reaper server would be asking for trouble on my end. Also fortnight wasnt an insult. I have played it and my roomates play it every day its just the first full pvp game I could think of lol

  • Octopus Lime
    Master
    Founder

    @tubiansayne That's fair enough but sweeping statements that generalise certain players isn't cool

  • SurveyorPete
    Legend
    Insider

    @budzzz77

    You have every right to leave the game...

    Just as an abused wife has the right to leave a marriage. The ability to leave does not mean the abuser (griefer) is not an abuser.

    The ability to switch servers, or scuttle your ship, is not a licence for bad behaviour.

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