The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    Something I've been noticing on the Seas for a while but haven't really talked about - the Gunpowder Barrel Meta.

    So many encounters with other ships, my opponents mostly attempt a ram while running the prow of their ship with a Gunpowder Barrel... The first thing I see other crews do when I approach is start heading for their gunpowder stash... Taking a fort from an unaware crew is as simple as placing an Eye of Reach shot to the Crow's nest...

    Why are these tactics used so much in favor of real ship battling? Is it a sign that Gunpowder barrels have too much deciding power in a ship battle?

    I'm not saying that barrels are hard to deal with by any means - the right amount of situational awareness will usually win these situations. What I'm saying is that there's just too much focus on it for this game, to the point where we often spend our ship battles being minesweepers rather than being Pirates... Who can blow the other person up first as opposed to seeing who can dole out the best and most skillful cannon volley...

    What has grown this meta further is the abundance of Stronghold Kegs in the world now, which I think should be evaluated by the team.

    Rewarding skill is important for Sea of Thieves, so I wouldn't want to suggest changes that close the skill gap - I only suggest a shift in focus less from gunpowder and more to actual pirate ship battles.

    Community: What are your thoughts?

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  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    I don't see that as the meta, currently, or at the very least it might be popular, but certainly not the best route to sink a ship. One might be able to say that a few patches ago when a keg could destroy mast, wheel, and anchor all in one go. However, kegs including Mega Keg have been nerfed since then. Might be a case of people thinking they are good, when in fact they aren't. At least, in my opinion.

    They are by far one of the easiest things to counter. Their exist no place to store them safely, and they can easily be used against you. Throw on the fact that rams can be avoided, as well as, rams give your opponents the same advantages that you gained. Their is one spot that most people store kegs, but an easily placed EoR or pistol shot can detonate the whole batch. End result being your own ship being crippled. Storing them any where else will result in holes by a wayward cannonball.

    Might be popular, because people don't know any better. I firmly believe the average skill level in this game is quite low. I realize that sounds like I'm flexing, but I run across way too many ships that sink within minutes to easily avoidable things.

  • ZeZirconium
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    I disagree entirely if anything gunpowder is way to weak right now, my crew was on a brigantine at the Athens fort last night and we got hit by 2 mega bombs and survived easily. If your spending all your time fighting to try to ram for a bomb you're fighting inefficiently and if it's a strat that works you're fighting a bad crew, as it stands now cannon fire + boarding to defend holes is still what sinks the most ships

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @nabberwar

    I agree that it's an easy thing to avoid with awareness (I also agree about the average skill level of the game).

    I just rarely come across a really good ship battle in Adventure mode these days - in my recent experience, if they're not trying to ram me with a keg, they're running their loot to the Shroud for a disappointing end of the interaction for my crew.

    I'm missing the real ship battles with cannonfire and skillful sailing maneuvers, but maybe that's just the luck of the draw for the type of players I'm encountering.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    It's not the best method of sinking other ships by any means; it's just the high-risk, high-reward aspect of it which makes it the most fun to do. After all, who doesn't like explosions?

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @galactic-geek

    To be fair, cannonballs produce explosions of their own. And it is quite satisfying to see a well-placed volley impact an enemy ship, as much as it is to see that cloud rise up from their deck. I'd also say that it's a bit more terrifying for those being attacked to be under intense cannon fire than a single keg, as the keg is one blast. Sure, it does a lot of damage, but if one person survives they can often keep the ship up. A ship under constant cannon fire, not so much.

  • UrihamRayne
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    GPBs were always part of the equasion in SoT's ship combat, it has only been exarcebated in the perception of it's prevalence through the mega kegs that once were exclusive as single kegs on fort completion, now available in abundance through the FotD.

    Yes positioning and awareness are still key in ship combat, you just have to deal with the more annoying to deal with mega kegs, which can wipe out a crew if they're caught off guard but if a crew is ready for it, they can survive it. A mega keg never always spells doom if it goes off in a ship.

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    Yeah but the suicide leg run works. My kid uses it all the time. Gets a lot of sinks, and when he doesn't, usually dissuaded the pursuing crew.

    So would you rather get bombed or not get anything but chasing a better sailor than you to the red? Cause I'm taking you to the red 😉😋🧜🏽‍♀️

  • Glannigan
    Sailor

    I can answer this.

    There aren’t enough cannon balls!

    I’ve been arguing this for months.

    The amount of time/energy/focus it takes to stock up cannon balls the reward isn’t worth the effort.

    The solution is less food (there is way too much) and more cannonballs!

    Planks seem perfectly balanced.

    That’s why everyone is QQ’n about FOTD - they need 200-300 cannon balls to defend and use against boss and no ones putting in the time to gather that many and people just swing by and take their stuff!

    Lucky to have 50 left after killing the dude!

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @chronodusk said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    Something I've been noticing on the Seas for a while but haven't really talked about - the Gunpowder Barrel Meta.

    So many encounters with other ships, my opponents mostly attempt a ram while running the prow of their ship with a Gunpowder Barrel... The first thing I see other crews do when I approach is start heading for their gunpowder stash... Taking a fort from an unaware crew is as simple as placing an Eye of Reach shot to the Crow's nest...

    Why are these tactics used so much in favor of real ship battling? Is it a sign that Gunpowder barrels have too much deciding power in a ship battle?

    I'm not saying that barrels are hard to deal with by any means - the right amount of situational awareness will usually win these situations. What I'm saying is that there's just too much focus on it for this game, to the point where we often spend our ship battles being minesweepers rather than being Pirates... Who can blow the other person up first as opposed to seeing who can dole out the best and most skillful cannon volley...

    What has grown this meta further is the abundance of Stronghold Kegs in the world now, which I think should be evaluated by the team.

    Rewarding skill is important for Sea of Thieves, so I wouldn't want to suggest changes that close the skill gap - I only suggest a shift in focus less from gunpowder and more to actual pirate ship battles.

    Community: What are your thoughts?

    Might be because the whole cannonfire thing is a bit tedious when it comes to farming materials for it.

    If they made cannonballs infinite in supply from the barrels on your ship, so that you could never run empty on cannonballs, we might see an increase in cannonfire. Cannons are kinda hard to aim accurately, so most people tend to miss every shot, especially with that vertical ship movement messing up aim in unforeseen ways.

    If they improves cannon combat, we might see less gunpowder meta, but until then, gunpowder meta is simply the superior option, the most effective, and efficient way to sink enemies.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @chronodusk

    I'm allways a little sad and disappointed that boarding and kegs are so much important.
    It's not because i'm better at ship combat than in melee ir gunfights, but because i just like them more and find them more intense and tactic, you need a crew working like a clockwork adjusting sails, maneuver, communicate with the Helmsman if he cannot see because if the sails etc.
    This is what i find fun and challenging PvP fights.
    I also liked the Skeleton Ship from the Event, they were a good challenge compared to what they are today.

    So yes agree, for me this is too much boarding, keg usage what makes ship to ship combat not have that Status it should have imho.

    But, i have to say that i also think that staying on your ship, using it as the strongest weapon ingame and defending it at the same time can bring your opponents under great pressure, but without boarding or keg them you wont sink them.
    Vice versa is it not neccessary to first use your ship to put pressure on the other ships crew by cannonfire, you can just skip that and board and keg them.
    This is what diminishs and devalued the ship to ship combat as it's mostly not needed because the boarding and keg stuff is too strong.

    With ammo chests it will become even more bad and SoT is turning more and more to a fps game than a pirate and ship combat game.

    The issue is per design.
    The big freedom we have makes ship to ship combat not the only and not the ideal way to sink someone.

    Ideas to counter that.
    Make kegs not explode underwater, make them even not work when they got wet.
    Keg in the water = useless.

    Think again about something like invincibility for 3 seconds after respawning.
    Yes 30s were ridiculously long and didnt work, but it incentivices to sink someone by ship to ship combat as it gives a crew a slight advantage on their Ship.
    And imho this is ok, it's their ship and it will incentivice ship to ship combat more than to board, kill and spawnkill and use this to sink someone.

    There are maybe other and/or better ideas.

    I know the "hardcores" wont like it as they like SoT become more fps, more esport like and such, but imo it's completely wrong direction.

    Fort Kegs should have never been introduced to the open world.
    Ok for Fort Loot, but not ok to find them on a random Skeleton or between barrels in the water.
    Too powerfull imho.

  • BLACKPOISON04
    Marauder
    Insider

    I wouldn't call it a meta in my opinion, With the expanded damage it is risky to keep kegs anywhere on your ship.

    ●Putting them in the crows nest leaves the potential snipe hense losing a mast/damage if it's a mega keg.
    ●Keeping them below deck to be less obvious leaves you vulnerable to boarders getting their hands on one as well as cannon fire.

    Over all I think the keg is a way to give you the upper hand and not so much a game winner, if you are fighting a competent crew they can easily handle a normal keg while in combat and possibly a mega. But it just takes maybe one or two of there crew members to have to deal with it giving the crew that kegged the ship the opportunity to capitalize, depending on how long it takes the crew to deal with ship repairs. Play smart and be aware of what could happen and how to deal with it.

    Personally I only take kegs on rowboats, I never tend to have any on my boat.

  • Ghost Patton
    Castaway

    I strongly agree with you. I want way more ship to ship, cannon to cannon battles and way less who can jump onto your ship and blow up a keg or drop your anchor. Making so enemies could board your ship would greatly improved the game in my opinion. You'd have to focus way more on outmaneuvering, careful aim, and positioning. Boarding just to drop anchor or blow yourself up is very boring and requires no skill in my opinion.

  • InboundBomb
    Commander
    Insider

    Kegs are always on my crews ship since we are a combat crew. They are used in defense and attacking maneuvers. This meta of ramming with kegs I haven’t seen in over a year now. Like others have said while they do damage to the a ship and crew it take coordination and communication with your crew to use them effectively and efficiently.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @chronodusk said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:
    If they improves cannon combat, we might see less gunpowder meta, but until then, gunpowder meta is simply the superior option, the most effective, and efficient way to sink enemies.

    But it's not - it's the high risk, high reward option.

    It's high risk because it's easy to miss or get spotted and shot, and in the attempt, you're leaving your ship a man down and as a result, it's effectiveness in battle is greatly reduced - that's 1 less gunner, sailor, defender, repairer, etc. It's high reward because in the off-chance it works, you get a great explosion, a lot of damage, a kill or 2, and a disabled ship (which is why it's so important to defend against).

  • Jareto102
    Marauder

    @galactic-geek said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @chronodusk said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:
    If they improves cannon combat, we might see less gunpowder meta, but until then, gunpowder meta is simply the superior option, the most effective, and efficient way to sink enemies.

    But it's not - it's the high risk, high reward option.

    It's high risk because it's easy to miss or get spotted and shot, and in the attempt, you're leaving your ship a man down and as a result, it's effectiveness in battle is greatly reduced - that's 1 less gunner, sailor, defender, repairer, etc. It's high reward because in the off-chance it works, you get a great explosion, a lot of damage, a kill or 2, and a disabled ship (which is why it's so important to defend against).

    It's only the most effective when it's not the only card in your hand.
    Me and my first mate do what we call strafe kegging:

    1. one of us grabs a keg, and wait towards the prow of our ship.
    2. the other takes the wheel, and gets you as close to the docked ship as possible while still breezing past the island as if you were just making your way along.
    3. The kegger jumps off, makes the swim, and waits in the water by the ship, out of sight of the island, for the ship to pull back around.
    4. the kegger climbs aboard, lights the fuse, drops it below deck, and abandons ship. His job is to now wait for any enemy stragglers, and clean them up.
    5. Once the man on ship sees the explosion, he hits the ship with an excessive amount of cannonballs to prevent repairs until the kegger confirms the ship is past saving.
    6. Both of us clean up the survivors, package the loot, and go about our day.

    It's swift, effective, and arguably the easiest way to deal with unsuspecting ships. But it's far from being foolproof. You have to make it to the enemy ship without dying from sharks, manage to not be seen in the time it takes for the ship to make a u turn and be ready to strafe (the timing has to be perfect), and even after the keg is lit, the strafer has to be watching and listening while on the guns, because too many times an angry enemy has boarded us and tried to kill him.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @heavyreaper102 That's against a moored ship though - those are easy, due to the element of surprise. I'm largely referring to in-combat - ships that are already aware of your presence and that are moving.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek Well, not really, remaining hidden isn't hard... And if you fail, you only die, your ship doesn't sink.

    If anything, it's low risk, high reward, because you don't have to put your ship in danger in order to make it happen.

    Say a galleon chases my sloop into the wind, i can just drop a keg or two, or 3, or 4 in the water... boom, boom, boom, boom... Well, needless to say, they will sink... Especially if i drop into the water after dropping the kegsm to board them after the kegs explode.

    0 risk, high reward.

    Or imagine we're at a Skeleton fort, and trying to eliminate the ship currently occupying it... Just shoot a crewmate over, and they can use the multitudes of gunpowder kegs in the island to blow that ship into smithereens.

    Low risk, high reward.

    Or, alternatively, if the ships have gunpowder kegs stashed in their crows nest, you can just sneak up there, ignite them one by one, and drop them down on the ship...

    Low risk, high reward again.

    No matter how you slice it, it's always low risk, high reward... because the only thing you are really risking, is your own pirates life, and that is expendable as we respawn all the time.

    And being a man down for a while is not a problem, as long as your ship is positioned and/or moving properly.

  • Jareto102
    Marauder

    @galactic-geek said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @heavyreaper102 That's against a moored ship though - those are easy, due to the element of surprise. I'm largely referring to in-combat - ships that are already aware of your presence and that are moving.

    Oh, in that case yeah. Only chance you're getting to keg is a ram, and those are nigh impossible unless the enemy crew are all apes.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @galactic-geek Well, not really, remaining hidden isn't hard... And if you fail, you only die, your ship doesn't sink.

    If anything, it's low risk, high reward, because you don't have to put your ship in danger in order to make it happen.

    Say a galleon chases my sloop into the wind, i can just drop a keg or two, or 3, or 4 in the water... boom, boom, boom, boom... Well, needless to say, they will sink... Especially if i drop into the water after dropping the kegsm to board them after the kegs explode.

    0 risk, high reward.

    Or imagine we're at a Skeleton fort, and trying to eliminate the ship currently occupying it... Just shoot a crewmate over, and they can use the multitudes of gunpowder kegs in the island to blow that ship into smithereens.

    Low risk, high reward.

    Or, alternatively, if the ships have gunpowder kegs stashed in their crows nest, you can just sneak up there, ignite them one by one, and drop them down on the ship...

    Low risk, high reward again.

    No matter how you slice it, it's always low risk, high reward... because the only thing you are really risking, is your own pirates life, and that is expendable as we respawn all the time.

    And being a man down for a while is not a problem, as long as your ship is positioned and/or moving properly.

    Barrels dropped in the water are easy to spot and snipe.

    At a fort, they will likely see your ship, or your pirate on the island, or hear the shot.

    If boarding their ship, they'll likely hear you or see you as you climb to their crow's nest - even if you make it, it wouldn't be hard to snipe the barrels through the floorboards (taking the lesser of 2 evils).

    While your ship is a man-down, it's not about it being in danger, only about its effectiveness in battle being reduced, which can increase the likelihood of the danger - either via mistakes or simply being outplayed due to not having the manpower. Assuming you have a full crew, your ship effectively becomes 1 ship-size lower, but not as good, if a crewmember attempts to board another vessel. For example, a galleon effectively becomes a brig, but worse, or a brig effectively becomes a sloop, but worse.

    So I disagree with your assessment - it's still a high-risk, IMO.

    Either way, that's what makes it so much fun!

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @galactic-geek Well, not really, remaining hidden isn't hard... And if you fail, you only die, your ship doesn't sink.

    If anything, it's low risk, high reward, because you don't have to put your ship in danger in order to make it happen.

    Say a galleon chases my sloop into the wind, i can just drop a keg or two, or 3, or 4 in the water... boom, boom, boom, boom... Well, needless to say, they will sink... Especially if i drop into the water after dropping the kegsm to board them after the kegs explode.

    0 risk, high reward.

    Or imagine we're at a Skeleton fort, and trying to eliminate the ship currently occupying it... Just shoot a crewmate over, and they can use the multitudes of gunpowder kegs in the island to blow that ship into smithereens.

    Low risk, high reward.

    Or, alternatively, if the ships have gunpowder kegs stashed in their crows nest, you can just sneak up there, ignite them one by one, and drop them down on the ship...

    Low risk, high reward again.

    No matter how you slice it, it's always low risk, high reward... because the only thing you are really risking, is your own pirates life, and that is expendable as we respawn all the time.

    And being a man down for a while is not a problem, as long as your ship is positioned and/or moving properly.

    Barrels dropped in the water are easy to spot and snipe.

    At a fort, they will likely see your ship, or your pirate on the island, or hear the shot.

    If boarding their ship, they'll likely hear you or see you as you climb to their crow's nest - even if you make it, it wouldn't be hard to snipe the barrels through the floorboards (taking the lesser of 2 evils).

    So I disagree with your assessment - it's still a high-risk, IMO.

    Either way, that's what makes it so much fun!

    I can confidently say you are dead wrong about all these things, whilst they may be possible, they ignore the aspect of psychology in PvP... I will number my counter-arguments in the order you presented your arguments.

    1. Except waves and ship movement really messes with your aim, therefore, it's not that easy to shoot kegs in the water... Which is why dropping kegs is such an absurdly effective strategy for sloops... it has never failed me, and i doubt it ever will. :P

    2. At a fort, they will ATTEMPT to look for me, and fail, because i will remain hidden, until there's an opening, or simply evade the areas where they are actively looking for me... The people at the fort are usually too busy dealing with the skellies to get properly organized, so there is plenty of openings to work with.

    3. They often do hear me, true, but it usually doesn't matter, they shoot, i don't die, i end up boarding anyway, and then i kill them all, and whilst they're dead, i start climbing the crows nest ladder... And rule 1 of fps games, or specifically first person games anyway... Nobody ever looks up. Even if they spawn in, the first places they look is everywhere, except the crows nest. If they cant find me, they assume i left, until their ship starts perpetually exploding of course, then they realize i didn't leave. xD

    4. My entire argument is based on the premise that you don't need your ship and its cannons to sink other ships, so that argument is kind of redundant. You only need 1 singular crewmate, and a gunpowder keg to sink a ship. That means no cannonballs necessary, meaning the ship is already ineffective in every way, except as a respawn point.

    Thing is, once you start your assault of the enemy ship, you will always make sure their anchor is dropped. So it doesn't matter how few people are on your ship, as long as there's at least 1 guy steering it, keeping it close and safely positioned to avoid enemy boarders and cannonfire, you're good. : /

    Therefore, low risk, high reward.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @galactic-geek said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @galactic-geek Well, not really, remaining hidden isn't hard... And if you fail, you only die, your ship doesn't sink.

    If anything, it's low risk, high reward, because you don't have to put your ship in danger in order to make it happen.

    Say a galleon chases my sloop into the wind, i can just drop a keg or two, or 3, or 4 in the water... boom, boom, boom, boom... Well, needless to say, they will sink... Especially if i drop into the water after dropping the kegsm to board them after the kegs explode.

    0 risk, high reward.

    Or imagine we're at a Skeleton fort, and trying to eliminate the ship currently occupying it... Just shoot a crewmate over, and they can use the multitudes of gunpowder kegs in the island to blow that ship into smithereens.

    Low risk, high reward.

    Or, alternatively, if the ships have gunpowder kegs stashed in their crows nest, you can just sneak up there, ignite them one by one, and drop them down on the ship...

    Low risk, high reward again.

    No matter how you slice it, it's always low risk, high reward... because the only thing you are really risking, is your own pirates life, and that is expendable as we respawn all the time.

    And being a man down for a while is not a problem, as long as your ship is positioned and/or moving properly.

    Barrels dropped in the water are easy to spot and snipe.

    At a fort, they will likely see your ship, or your pirate on the island, or hear the shot.

    If boarding their ship, they'll likely hear you or see you as you climb to their crow's nest - even if you make it, it wouldn't be hard to snipe the barrels through the floorboards (taking the lesser of 2 evils).

    So I disagree with your assessment - it's still a high-risk, IMO.

    Either way, that's what makes it so much fun!

    I can confidently say you are dead wrong about all these things, whilst they may be possible, they ignore the aspect of psychology in PvP... I will number my counter-arguments in the order you presented your arguments.

    1. Except waves and ship movement really messes with your aim, therefore, it's not that easy to shoot kegs in the water... Which is why dropping kegs is such an absurdly effective strategy for sloops... it has never failed me, and i doubt it ever will. :P

    2. At a fort, they will ATTEMPT to look for me, and fail, because i will remain hidden, until there's an opening, or simply evade the areas where they are actively looking for me... The people at the fort are usually too busy dealing with the skellies to get properly organized, so there is plenty of openings to work with.

    3. They often do hear me, true, but it usually doesn't matter, they shoot, i don't die, i end up boarding anyway, and then i kill them all, and whilst they're dead, i start climbing the crows nest ladder... And rule 1 of fps games, or specifically first person games anyway... Nobody ever looks up. Even if they spawn in, the first places they look is everywhere, except the crows nest. If they cant find me, they assume i left, until their ship starts perpetually exploding of course, then they realize i didn't leave. xD

    4. My entire argument is based on the premise that you don't need your ship and its cannons to sink other ships, so that argument is kind of redundant. You only need 1 singular crewmate, and a gunpowder keg to sink a ship. That means no cannonballs necessary, meaning the ship is already ineffective in every way, except as a respawn point.

    Thing is, once you start your assault of the enemy ship, you will always make sure their anchor is dropped. So it doesn't matter how few people are on your ship, as long as there's at least 1 guy steering it, keeping it close and safely positioned to avoid enemy boarders and cannonfire, you're good. : /

    Therefore, low risk, high reward.

    1. You assume that a pirate would stay on the ship to shoot the floating barrel - they could easily jump overboard, then snipe it, and quickly mermaid back.

    2. Moving while remaining hidden? Not an easy thing to do with such a prominent name and title to give away your location. This may work in the water, but not while grabbing the barrels. Also, we're assuming competently skilled crews here, not your average lowballers.

    3. Your overconfidence in your abilities and overt assumptions will be your undoing, I fear - there's always a bigger fish... A crew that doesn't look in every direction isn't a competent 1.

    4. Dropping anchor is a time-waster and is no longer necessary if you have a keg, since it will disable the ship all by itself. Also, 1 crewmate cannot effectively steer and fire cannons and defend against borders - they will be forced to choose.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek

    1. That doesn't make his aim any easier dude... Waves affect you when you're swimming too. xD

    2. Your name is hidden behind certain bushes and trees and other objects too, you know, it's not like the Sea of Thieves is an endless landscape with no objects to hide behind and sneak around... And yes, hiding from competently skilled players is easy, due to psychology... I know where they would look first, because that's where i would look first, so i hide somewhere else.

    3. Lol, competence has nothing to do with it, it's about subconscious indoctrination... FPS games have historically never had 3-dimensional gameplay aspects, every threat is dealt with on a 2dimensional plane... aka what you can see, directly in front of you. This is why nobody ever looks up, they're used to games being limited to having threats moving on ground level, basically.

    Even in Overwatch you will see professional players forget to look up quite frequently too, and as a result, they get killed by Pharah, or a mine-jumping Junkrat, or sometimes Hanzo. This isn't always something they can control.

    When the brain has a priority list, you will subconsciously follow that priority list against your better judgement, because this is the instinctual reactions you've trained yourself to have over the years, from other games, as well as IRL... There are no significant airborn predators on this planet that attack humans, so humans haven't evolved the need to be aware of the sky and its creatures either.

    So yes, as a general rule, nobody looks up... Once in a blue moon, you might be fighting against a genius ( i mean that literally, a guy who brilliantly thinks outside the box at all times ), and he will own you, no matter what you do... But most people aren't geniuses. :P

    Humans are slaves to their brains capabilities, as weird and unreasonable as that is, we cannot help it. : /

    1. Dropping the anchor is the nail in the coffin... Yes, it's effective as a time-waster, but it's effective to making their ship stationary so that i may swim over to their ship again when i respawn. :P
      Keeping their ship stationary also prevents them from turning their ship to get better cannon angles, so it protects your own ship as well.
      You aren't guaranteed to take down all their sails, you know, and downing their sails doesn't keep them from turning their ship, only keeps them from sailing.
  • JetOrchidee97
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick a dit dans The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place :

    Once in a blue moon, you might be fighting against a genius ( i mean that literally, a guy who brilliantly thinks outside the box at all times ), and he will own you, no matter what you do... But most people aren't geniuses. :P

    You're talking of yourself there, am I right?

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @jetorchidee97 Nope... Nobody has ever successfully managed to barrel my ship and/or kill my entire crew solo... so i've never NEEDED to look up.

    I doubt i would, if a pirate one day managed to do that to me and my crew. :P

    I said geniuses, because only literal geniuses are capable of completely changing their set mental patterns when necessary.

  • JetOrchidee97
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick a dit dans The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place :

    @jetorchidee97 Nope... Nobody has ever successfully managed to barrel my ship and/or kill my entire crew solo... so i've never NEEDED to look up.

    I doubt i would, if a pirate one day managed to do that to me and my crew. :P

    I mean, it's you, you're the genius once in a blue moon you're talking about?

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @jetorchidee97 I know what you meant, and i said no... What's wrong with you? ._.

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @chronodusk said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    Something I've been noticing on the Seas for a while but haven't really talked about - the Gunpowder Barrel Meta.

    So many encounters with other ships, my opponents mostly attempt a ram while running the prow of their ship with a Gunpowder Barrel... The first thing I see other crews do when I approach is start heading for their gunpowder stash... Taking a fort from an unaware crew is as simple as placing an Eye of Reach shot to the Crow's nest...

    Why are these tactics used so much in favor of real ship battling? Is it a sign that Gunpowder barrels have too much deciding power in a ship battle?

    I'm not saying that barrels are hard to deal with by any means - the right amount of situational awareness will usually win these situations. What I'm saying is that there's just too much focus on it for this game, to the point where we often spend our ship battles being minesweepers rather than being Pirates... Who can blow the other person up first as opposed to seeing who can dole out the best and most skillful cannon volley...

    What has grown this meta further is the abundance of Stronghold Kegs in the world now, which I think should be evaluated by the team.

    Rewarding skill is important for Sea of Thieves, so I wouldn't want to suggest changes that close the skill gap - I only suggest a shift in focus less from gunpowder and more to actual pirate ship battles.

    Community: What are your thoughts?

    I think it's not really a meta but I go in and use cannons first and then gunpowder if I have any

  • JetOrchidee97
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick a dit dans The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place :

    @jetorchidee97 I know what you meant, and i said no... What's wrong with you? ._.

    Righty'O, I really thought so xD

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @jetorchidee97 But why though? o_.
    Do you always assume people are talking about themselves when they say things? ._.

  • JetOrchidee97
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick a dit dans The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place :

    @jetorchidee97 But why though? o_.
    Do you always assume people are talking about themselves when they say things? ._.

    I would say it depends. Sometimes yes, sometimes no but sometimes I don't know.

  • BadassFro
    Captain
    Insider

    @glannigan said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    I can answer this.

    There aren’t enough cannon balls!

    I’ve been arguing this for months.

    The amount of time/energy/focus it takes to stock up cannon balls the reward isn’t worth the effort.

    The solution is less food (there is way too much) and more cannonballs!

    Planks seem perfectly balanced.

    That’s why everyone is QQ’n about FOTD - they need 200-300 cannon balls to defend and use against boss and no ones putting in the time to gather that many and people just swing by and take their stuff!

    Lucky to have 50 left after killing the dude!

    Actually I think you are right, a simple change like less fruit more cannon balls should result in more ship to ship combat, I like it

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @galactic-geek

    1. That doesn't make his aim any easier dude... Waves affect you when you're swimming too. xD

    2. Your name is hidden behind certain bushes and trees and other objects too, you know, it's not like the Sea of Thieves is an endless landscape with no objects to hide behind and sneak around... And yes, hiding from competently skilled players is easy, due to psychology... I know where they would look first, because that's where i would look first, so i hide somewhere else.

    3. Lol, competence has nothing to do with it, it's about subconscious indoctrination... FPS games have historically never had 3-dimensional gameplay aspects, every threat is dealt with on a 2dimensional plane... aka what you can see, directly in front of you. This is why nobody ever looks up, they're used to games being limited to having threats moving on ground level, basically.

    Even in Overwatch you will see professional players forget to look up quite frequently too, and as a result, they get killed by Pharah, or a mine-jumping Junkrat, or sometimes Hanzo. This isn't always something they can control.

    When the brain has a priority list, you will subconsciously follow that priority list against your better judgement, because this is the instinctual reactions you've trained yourself to have over the years, from other games, as well as IRL... There are no significant airborn predators on this planet that attack humans, so humans haven't evolved the need to be aware of the sky and its creatures either.

    So yes, as a general rule, nobody looks up... Once in a blue moon, you might be fighting against a genius ( i mean that literally, a guy who brilliantly thinks outside the box at all times ), and he will own you, no matter what you do... But most people aren't geniuses. :P

    Humans are slaves to their brains capabilities, as weird and unreasonable as that is, we cannot help it. : /

    1. Dropping the anchor is the nail in the coffin... Yes, it's effective as a time-waster, but it's effective to making their ship stationary so that i may swim over to their ship again when i respawn. :P
      Keeping their ship stationary also prevents them from turning their ship to get better cannon angles, so it protects your own ship as well.
      You aren't guaranteed to take down all their sails, you know, and downing their sails doesn't keep them from turning their ship, only keeps them from sailing.

    1. Waves don't affect you while under them (in-game at least) - this is why you can swim faster underwater as opposed to swimming on the surface.

    2. True, but you're still always standing unless you emote.

    3. Depends on the game and the player - many players learn where to look based upon where players can go. For example, if there's a ledge up high, then yes, they will look up. It's not as 2D as you might think. Furthermore many games are getting better with sound - hearing things not just in front, beside or behind you - but above and below as well. Naturally, this ability to be hyper-aware is a skill that grows over time. Brains can be trained.

    4. I concede this point.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek

    1. Yes, but at that point you are consuming a lot of time to get down deep enough for waves to stop affecting you, and even then, the keg is always on the surface, bobbing up and down, and occasionally hiding behind the reflective surface of the water from the waves too. The point is, most of the time, you sail right into that keg, and it explodes. :3
      You can always drop more kegs, if the first fails too, you know, faster than the keg-buster can reload. :D

    2. Standing isn't a problem, if the CENTER of your characters hitbox is behind an object, your name vanishes... Players might be able to see a shoulder or something, but unless there's a name, they wont notice it... Another psychological thing, their brain is set to look for names, not pirate-shaped objects. xD

    3. It's one thing to notice an object at the top of your monitor, and it's another thing to actively adjust your field of view to explore what is directly above you. As with sound, people SHOULD listen to sound, yes, but for some reason, people don't rely on sound when they play games, due to them having been so unreliable in the past, i guess. This is very noticeable when i play with my own crew... They are all decent gamers, but they don't have a mindset for sound for some reason...
      I call it out every time "Someone's boarding!" and my crew doesn't react until 3-5 entire seconds have passed, its infuriating to watch. xD
      I wanted to make a joke about gaming rule number 2 being "nobody has ears" but in all honesty, it's a 50-50 gamble. : /
      Even so, the sound of climbing the ladder isn't very loud, nor is it widely known, so most people haven't learned to be alerted by it, i certainly haven't. :o
      It's true that you can train for this, but it's also true that you can practice red-herring tactics in order to force people to tunnel-vision something as a distraction, allowing you to climb the ladder unnoticed while they frantically look for you below deck, for instance. ;3

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQemuzej0Q9NvDLgVdiEll97mAcZjbsIlIORQcwcekxjwOwaB1g&s

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick said in The Gunpowder Barrel Meta Feels Out of Place:

    @galactic-geek

    1. Yes, but at that point you are consuming a lot of time to get down deep enough for waves to stop affecting you, and even then, the keg is always on the surface, bobbing up and down, and occasionally hiding behind the reflective surface of the water from the waves too. The point is, most of the time, you sail right into that keg, and it explodes. :3
      You can always drop more kegs, if the first fails too, you know, faster than the keg-buster can reload. :D

    2. Standing isn't a problem, if the CENTER of your characters hitbox is behind an object, your name vanishes... Players might be able to see a shoulder or something, but unless there's a name, they wont notice it... Another psychological thing, their brain is set to look for names, not pirate-shaped objects. xD

    3. It's one thing to notice an object at the top of your monitor, and it's another thing to actively adjust your field of view to explore what is directly above you. As with sound, people SHOULD listen to sound, yes, but for some reason, people don't rely on sound when they play games, due to them having been so unreliable in the past, i guess. This is very noticeable when i play with my own crew... They are all decent gamers, but they don't have a mindset for sound for some reason...
      I call it out every time "Someone's boarding!" and my crew doesn't react until 3-5 entire seconds have passed, its infuriating to watch. xD
      I wanted to make a joke about gaming rule number 2 being "nobody has ears" but in all honesty, it's a 50-50 gamble. : /
      Even so, the sound of climbing the ladder isn't very loud, nor is it widely known, so most people haven't learned to be alerted by it, i certainly haven't. :o
      It's true that you can train for this, but it's also true that you can practice red-herring tactics in order to force people to tunnel-vision something as a distraction, allowing you to climb the ladder unnoticed while they frantically look for you below deck, for instance. ;3

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQemuzej0Q9NvDLgVdiEll97mAcZjbsIlIORQcwcekxjwOwaB1g&s

    1. You don't have to go down far at all. Literally just below the surface, maybe a few feet - that takes maybe half a second. Even if the barrel is still bobbing, that's better than it and you bobbing.

    2. Many experienced players, like yours truly, are trained for movement and recognizable patterns. You'd have to be on the nose to hide perfectly still and not get spotted with an arm sticking out from behind that palm tree. Even if you stand still, idle animations may give you away.

    3. When it comes to sound, a favorite tactic of mine is "masking" - for example, climbing a ship ladder as a cannon is fired, so that the splash is overwhelmed by the louder sound of the cannon. This, of course, is all about timing.

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