If Rare could go back in time and do some things different do you think they would/should?

  • contentzilla
    Ship Mate

    I started with the open beta for SOT and even though it was bare bones I could see the potential. So I took the risk and purchased the game at full retail price on launch and have no regrets about it but always felt some of their steps forward were then two steps back.

    For instance when the mega streamers jumped on the bandwagon with this game and made it one of the top games being streamed for a month or two. When this was happening it was during a break I was taking from the game but was super excited about how this could pump more players into the game and by the time I planned to come back when the anniversary update dropped.

    But then what did Rare do? Did they embrace the streamers? No they never invited them to a official SOT stream or supported them in any way that I could see except to stop their name tags from showing during streams. The community sure didn't embrace them as seen by the many complaint threads that popped up at the time. In fact they instead blamed streamers for the double gun exploit that had been in the game for almost a year since launch. Even tho the streamers were using the double gun legitimately. But because most if not all were on PC they had such great accuracy that they rarely missed so most players died to them within seconds. So what does Rare do? They then put in forced animations to stop the double gun cheater yet made the gun combat more clunky and slow! This then seemed to cause a mass exodus of the streams that have for the most part never returned.

    Then there was the infamous update about 6 months after the game launched the introduced Barrels 2.0, Cursed Cannon Balls for players to use and the Nerf of Commendations that some of us had already completed. Now the nerfing of the commendations I think was a huge mistake. I mean there's gotta a person or persons who thought up those commendations. I bet they must have some sort of background in coming up with commendations. And I think they must still be in charge of commendations because a lot of commendations since the nerf seem to be similar like the sink 500 Skellie ships. Now instead of Rare celebrating players who were willing to grind and put in insane hours to complete those commendations. They instead nerf them and cater to the casual crowd. This had a instant effect on my friends list. I had a good 30 friends who played regularly and then a dozen or so who I played with personally. Overnight they were ALL gone. There were many posts on the forum about how yes some of those commendations could use a nerf, but NOT ALL OF THEM!.

    And then the Barrels 2.0, the previous system was amazing but now we have this clunky interface when in reality it could have been held off until the Anniversary update which would have gave them a whole heck of a lot of time to polish this system to something where we still had the older smooth mechanics and then a new option like holding X or something to go into the barrels menu.

    And then the Cursed Cannon balls, eh I could take them or leave them.

    So with all this being said, what does the community think? If Rare had time travel abilities would they change some of these decisions? And does the community think they should if they could?

    I personally see Rare as the stubborn donkey who sticks to their guns and to preserve their vision they would rather let their game sink and burn than give in to making changes they don't see eye to eye with. What do you all think?

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  • contentzilla
    Ship Mate

    Oh and I forgot to mention the Arena. Another awesome step forward but also in a way two steps back. I just think what if they never changed the combat mechanics. Maybe some of those top streamer would have stuck around. Then lets say they dropped the Arena but instead of the focus being on digging up/stealing and then turning chest, they focused on giving out big points for PvP kills, landing hits on ships and sinking ships. This would have given the streamers exactly what most of them wanted. The PvE only server crowd would have loved the result in how it would have pulled most of those players out of Adventure mode. But because of the streamers they would be pulling in more and more new players who some would be pulled toward Arena and then others towards Adventure mode. I know this is all wishful thinking but I still have the feeling this game has so much potential. Keep up the good work Rare and thanks for a great game!!

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @contentzilla
    Totally agree with you on the nerving of commendations. Speaking as someone who has those overachiever sails but because I had some commendations above the new one, not close to the old one.

    They should have started with Barrels 2.0 :).

    They should have handled the double-gunning way sooner; even have cutlass as mandatory weapon or something until it was fixed properly.
    They probably thought they couldn't be against double-gunning and invite a streamer who uses it almost constantly. Well they could, but it would have been awkward, the Rare employee waving, followed by an instant kill by the streamer :).

  • contentzilla
    Ship Mate

    @lem0n-curry said in If Rare could go back in time and do some things different do you think they would/should?:

    @contentzilla
    Totally agree with you on the nerving of commendations. Speaking as someone who has those overachiever sails but because I had some commendations above the new one, not close to the old one.

    They should have started with Barrels 2.0 :).

    They should have handled the double-gunning way sooner; even have cutlass as mandatory weapon or something until it was fixed properly.
    They probably thought they couldn't be against double-gunning and invite a streamer who uses it almost constantly. Well they could, but it would have been awkward, the Rare employee waving, followed by an instant kill by the streamer :).

    Yes if they started with Barrels 2.0 then none of us would be the wiser and then they would have had a lots of time to polish it and maybe evolve into a hybrid of the current and old system.

    The double gunning as far as what I could tell was not rampant but yes it should have been addressed. I don't agree with the forced cutlass scenario but yes something to combat that exploit but still allow people to have double guns if they so choose

    And I love the vision you just gave me! Rare employee with one of the top streamers like says Ninja. Rare employee all nice and cheerful, Ninja blast the poor newb LOLz!

  • treefittymonsta
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    I wish they never introduced alliances and cursed cannonballs.

    I wish they would have had fire with the devil's roar update.

    I wish they had more cosmetics since the game is based on cosmetics.

  • Joe Krakatoa
    Commander
    Insider

    Yet the game is more popular now than ever.

    At every step, from development to launch, and beyond the last update, SoT has exceeded expectations by both Rare and MS.

    Looking back at last year, I dont see where Rare has to anything to regret.

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    I dont watch streamers, but i agree this was a missed opportunity.

    They should have fixed the double gun long ago. It never bothered me personally. If you are good at ship combat, you dont see much up close pvp.

    Hated the new barrels at first, but im used to it now. Still clunky and takes to long to load everything in them on xbox one x.
    I understand the reason they added them, so im just tryin to deal with it until its optimized better.

    Wholly agree on the commendations.
    In the name of Ramsey Singh can we please stop making EVERYTHING easier.
    I dont play enough to hit those previous commendations, but catering to casuals is getting out of hand. The game has always lacked content, and some of those commendations were insane (1000 bannana crates), but players need things to do. Some were prolly even on their way to reaching those unrealistic commendations. Why pull the rug out from under them?

    Hated cursed cannonballs. Still do. It adds to much randomness. Yes they give smaller crews a fighting chance against bein outnumbered, but i feel it took away some of the skill from ship combat. Every ship already had its strengths and weaknesses. Never had a problem sinkin a gallly in a sloop cause i took the time to master each ship.
    Now i can easily disable a galleon and fill them full of holes with almost no effort.

    The only one i dont agree on was arena. I didnt want it in the first place. After hearing why it was added i was ok. I dont play it because its not pvp orientated. And i dont wanna hold my crew back just tryin to kill ppl.
    I worry if it was pvp based there will be less threats in adventure mode. Its already so hard to find a good crew to fight on the seas. I guess with 24 players on a server my fears are probably unfounded anyway.

    But it seems you will get your wish eventually with a pvp based arena. In the live Q&A the other day with the arena devs, they said they are gonna be adding new modes. Im sure a pure pvp mode will be one. It would be an easy way to ease the pvp in adventure and make pve players happy like u said.

    Sorry about writing a novel, but u asked for it

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @treefittymonsta
    And i with treefitty on alliances.
    Dont think they were needed.
    Just made it easier for players to progress without puttin in the work.
    So i use it to my advantage. I pvp all alliances i see, and look at it as more players for me to sink at once.

    I have so many commendations and dabloons i will never earn cause i cant be bothered to alliance up. But thats my fault so dont take that as a complaint

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @contentzilla said in If Rare could go back in time and do some things different do you think they would/should?:

    I started with the open beta for SOT and even though it was bare bones I could see the potential. So I took the risk and purchased the game at full retail price on launch and have no regrets about it but always felt some of their steps forward were then two steps back.

    For instance when the mega streamers jumped on the bandwagon with this game and made it one of the top games being streamed for a month or two. When this was happening it was during a break I was taking from the game but was super excited about how this could pump more players into the game and by the time I planned to come back when the anniversary update dropped.

    But then what did Rare do? Did they embrace the streamers? No they never invited them to a official SOT stream or supported them in any way that I could see except to stop their name tags from showing during streams. The community sure didn't embrace them as seen by the many complaint threads that popped up at the time. In fact they instead blamed streamers for the double gun exploit that had been in the game for almost a year since launch. Even tho the streamers were using the double gun legitimately. But because most if not all were on PC they had such great accuracy that they rarely missed so most players died to them within seconds. So what does Rare do? They then put in forced animations to stop the double gun cheater yet made the gun combat more clunky and slow! This then seemed to cause a mass exodus of the streams that have for the most part never returned.

    Then there was the infamous update about 6 months after the game launched the introduced Barrels 2.0, Cursed Cannon Balls for players to use and the Nerf of Commendations that some of us had already completed. Now the nerfing of the commendations I think was a huge mistake. I mean there's gotta a person or persons who thought up those commendations. I bet they must have some sort of background in coming up with commendations. And I think they must still be in charge of commendations because a lot of commendations since the nerf seem to be similar like the sink 500 Skellie ships. Now instead of Rare celebrating players who were willing to grind and put in insane hours to complete those commendations. They instead nerf them and cater to the casual crowd. This had a instant effect on my friends list. I had a good 30 friends who played regularly and then a dozen or so who I played with personally. Overnight they were ALL gone. There were many posts on the forum about how yes some of those commendations could use a nerf, but NOT ALL OF THEM!.

    And then the Barrels 2.0, the previous system was amazing but now we have this clunky interface when in reality it could have been held off until the Anniversary update which would have gave them a whole heck of a lot of time to polish this system to something where we still had the older smooth mechanics and then a new option like holding X or something to go into the barrels menu.

    And then the Cursed Cannon balls, eh I could take them or leave them.

    So with all this being said, what does the community think? If Rare had time travel abilities would they change some of these decisions? And does the community think they should if they could?

    I personally see Rare as the stubborn donkey who sticks to their guns and to preserve their vision they would rather let their game sink and burn than give in to making changes they don't see eye to eye with. What do you all think?

    i would have to say if they banned double gunning when summit discovered it

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    I disagree with their approach to handling the double-gun exploit, as well as the sword buffs - I think they took it too far, and some great mechanics were unintentionally sacrificed as a result. I still lament not being able to do a running sword slash with a speed boost by blocking first (nerfed with movement speed increase to sword) as well as the firearm quickdraw, which allowed you to quickly draw and aim down sights while blocking with your sword (perfectly balanced as it required the sword and could only be fired once unlike the DGE, and great for counter attacks after a successful block). The change to sword combat and its offense over defense was also an odd choice - you shouldn't be punished for successfully blocking an attack and being rooted in place as a result.

    Otherwise though, excellent game!

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    No progression System, no Factions except Merchants.
    No Reputation, only Gold.
    Only messages in a bottle and random stuff at the beaches.
    People get money from opening chests, cracking skulls or delivering stuff from Merchants to Merchants.
    Nothing gated behind reputation (btw the whole debate about jealousy about cosmetics to get easier etc would be obsolete), only gold!
    This is what you have when you PL A10 and have done all Events and Tales.
    But it should be this way from start.
    A session and gold based PvP sandbox game with loot here and there.
    A place to roam the Seas, fight the environment and use the tools provided to interact with it and other players.

    Instead we have people gaming the system for progression, whining to no end because of progression and effort lost and we have people beeing bored who start bullying others for no other reason than bullying.
    That's not a PvP sandbox!
    That's people dont get the design of the game or focus on things that unfortunately made it into it.
    I tell you this is only for marketing purposes and to sell more copies to addicts and grinding achievement hunters.
    Do you see SoT as a game for achievement hunters or a open sandbox world with PvP?
    All the problems in the community are based on progression, jealousy about it and a common reluctance to PvP.
    Developed as a Sandbox PvP game with loot in the world and only about getting gold to buy cosmetics there would be only playwrs playing who understand this gameplay and design.

    But we need lurk sheeps to wolfs and distract a good portion of players from interacting and roleplaying by make them addicts to grind levels and get nuts over loosing some pixels.

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @bugaboo-bill
    Well said.
    When can u start making that game so i can play it?

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @nwo-azcrack

    I'm waiting since late 90ies and Ultima Online for a developer make a good open sandbox PvP MMORPG with zero or at max horizontal progression with cosmetics only and for gold only.
    For a rich setting this can also be about reputation, but honestly should never gate content or give advantages what create a power gap between players by a gamemechanic.
    Reputation to have NPC react to you different only.
    Only atmosphere and fluff stuff. It's cool when all NPC talk to you as the hero, go respecfully out of your way instead treating you like a bigger you were at start. Stuff like this.
    The power of the players should always and only be about playerskill and player organisation and even this need to be flatten to give progamers not too much power and drive the generous player away or you have a game only for pro gamers. Everybody should be able to contribute to the world and feel important. Like you know without a cleaning woman nobody in a surgery room is gonna do some surgery. I often told my Professors so when they treated the cleaning personal like 3rd class humans.
    A rich gameworld with plenty of gamemechanics/ tools to roleplay and interact.
    You maybe even hate roleplay and think it's swollen speak carebears, but i recommend to watch or play with bloodclan Orcs in UO for example. Roleplaying PK's who enrich the world instead of beeing jerks and bullies.
    I only one time met a Galleon Crew what did this and i was until unable to find likeminded players, but i have for sure a good and fun crew.
    To RP and enrich the world it need a special aproach and also participants willing to interact on that (improved) level.
    Not for everybody, i have a lot of understanding that this is not for everyone, but good games and gamemechanics make you slightly RP without to know.
    Think of the speaking trumpet and the hungering one event.
    I heared many crews make fun RP when asking for cooperation and such.

    The world and every encounter in SoT should be this way and it wold be a lot more fun and improved social experience for everyone.
    People playing, interacting and roleplaying for fun and immersion.

    Progression systems, even this horizontal one with no impact at all distract so many gamers from playing, but make them only game the system.
    And when they have done it they get bored and ask for more to work off, put effort in and such or they quit or become bullies for no reason other than being bored and have a bully character by nature.
    What it does is only segregate from each other, shine with pixels, create jealousy for others who dont have it.
    I do it too. I just switched my Tattoo from Bonecrusher to the Hungering one, because it fits so well with the Hunter of the Shrouded Ghost Title ^^ and with my day one eyepatch, founder sails and some other specials i can feel more epic than everyone else, or?
    But honestly i would give it back in no time for more players roleplaying and less gamers gaming the system, but interacting and keep it civil and fun for everybody. Also or especially for the loosers.
    Snuck upon 2 Ships yesterday, stole some fish, didnt kill them although i could. I was on their Ship for minutes when they stocked up and didnt see me sleeping behind the maptable or standing just a few meters away behind the brig when they put stuff in their barrels.
    When they saw me and start shooting i jumped of from the stern and screamed you met the Klabauter today, be lucky you haven't sunk and how much is the fish? XD

  • contentzilla
    Ship Mate

    @nwo-azcrack said in If Rare could go back in time and do some things different do you think they would/should?:

    I dont watch streamers, but i agree this was a missed opportunity.

    They should have fixed the double gun long ago. It never bothered me personally. If you are good at ship combat, you dont see much up close pvp.

    Hated the new barrels at first, but im used to it now. Still clunky and takes to long to load everything in them on xbox one x.
    I understand the reason they added them, so im just tryin to deal with it until its optimized better.

    Wholly agree on the commendations.
    In the name of Ramsey Singh can we please stop making EVERYTHING easier.
    I dont play enough to hit those previous commendations, but catering to casuals is getting out of hand. The game has always lacked content, and some of those commendations were insane (1000 bannana crates), but players need things to do. Some were prolly even on their way to reaching those unrealistic commendations. Why pull the rug out from under them?

    Hated cursed cannonballs. Still do. It adds to much randomness. Yes they give smaller crews a fighting chance against bein outnumbered, but i feel it took away some of the skill from ship combat. Every ship already had its strengths and weaknesses. Never had a problem sinkin a gallly in a sloop cause i took the time to master each ship.
    Now i can easily disable a galleon and fill them full of holes with almost no effort.

    The only one i dont agree on was arena. I didnt want it in the first place. After hearing why it was added i was ok. I dont play it because its not pvp orientated. And i dont wanna hold my crew back just tryin to kill ppl.
    I worry if it was pvp based there will be less threats in adventure mode. Its already so hard to find a good crew to fight on the seas. I guess with 24 players on a server my fears are probably unfounded anyway.

    But it seems you will get your wish eventually with a pvp based arena. In the live Q&A the other day with the arena devs, they said they are gonna be adding new modes. Im sure a pure pvp mode will be one. It would be an easy way to ease the pvp in adventure and make pve players happy like u said.

    Sorry about writing a novel, but u asked for it

    No no, plz continue to write novels! Wow I did not know that the Devs confirmed new Arena modes!! This is awesome and I can't wait! It's almost like they realize if they could go back in time and change how Arena was launched they would but in this case they've done it after the fact since they don't own a Delorean.

  • Ironuzuka
    Master
    Insider

    they would add toilets to the game!

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