Solution against griefers in Adventure Mode.

  • FakkeJoe

    I'm pretty new to the game (a month) and just found this forum today. I've seen plenty of people complain about griefers in Adventure Mode, some reply with the obvious "git gud" type of comments and some reply that they feel their pain.

    I've played my fair share of games and this game is nice but I do play it only when I can sail a Galleon to scare of most people with bad ideas. To tackle the griefers issue I propose to take a look at how the "skull-system" -works/or used to work- in an old MMORPG named "Tibia".

    I would have to go back and read up on how it works nowadays but it gave players who attacked other players a certain coloured skull, depending on who initiated the fight the colour would be yellow for the attacker and white for the person who took damage first.

    In case the attacker succesfully killed the player who didn't look for a fight he will receive a red skull for a certain period. This was 15 minutes for the first agressive kill and this incrementally increased when he killed more players after that.

    In case the defender was able to kill off his attacker he would receive a green skull for a certain duration. This would show other players that he was not the agressor of a fight but won it. Other players who attacked the green skulled player received a yellow skull themselvers for being aggressive towards an at first non-aggressive player.

    The outcome of that fight will again result in a red skull for the guy who received a yellow skull from attacking the non-voilent player with a green skull (which he received after a previous fight).

    In case both parties with yellow and white skulls stop attacking eachother the skulls would wear off after a certain period of time as well.

    In case someone who already had a red skull goes on a killing spree and accumulates a certain amount of kills he would even get a darker red skull (or black) which made him a target free to attack by anyone without receiving a skull for trying to kill this black skulled guy.

    So this concept could be taken over to Sea of Thieves with some adjustments. Make the skulls become flags like there now is a certain flag to show that u are into PVP and the whole server can see you.

    The duration of the penalties could be higher because sailing takes longer than distances were being travelled in Tibia.

  • Login To Reply
    66
    Posts
    39.4k
    Views
  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @fakkejoe

    I stopped reading after you proposed some thing from some other MMORPG. Sea of Thieves is new and unique, and what makes this game special really can't be compared to the concepts of other multiplayer games.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    This idea, while an interesting one, is flawed on 2 levels:

    1. It removes the unknown from the equation. For example, if I see a red skull, I immediately know that they're dangerous.

    2. This takes all of the mystery and fun out of the game by immediately influencing your actions before ever actually engaging with the other ship. For example, if I see a red skull, I'm more apt to attack 1st despite the fact that they have yet to actually do anything to my own ship or crew. This also weakens the alliance system, which was already tenuous at best (by design).

  • CantusAvem
    Seafarer

    @fakkejoe a rep system wouldnt be bad i like the skull next to name idea maybe add it for like a hour. in RL if you killed someone you would get renown for killing so people would stay with you or go with you depending i think the more people you kill should add time to the rep thing as you get more renown for "people" knowing you

  • FakkeJoe

    @chronodusk I get what you are saying but this is a concept I haven't seen in other games either. It marks players who make a sport of killing others for mostly no reason. It also gives other players a visual warning to avoid that player.

    In Sea of Thieves u can implement this system (in their own way) so people who want to PVP but are not brave enough to sail under the PVP flag are still marked on the map in this system. Giving those who want to retaliate a chance to find the aggressor and in case that aggressor is just a griefer he'll be attackable by other players without risking to get a skull theirselves.

    This is just an anti-griefing system, how is this bad?

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    I don't want the game to influence my actions; I want to influence my actions.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @fakkejoe said in Solution against griefers in Adventure Mode.:

    @chronodusk I get what you are saying but this is a concept I haven't seen in other games either. It marks players who make a sport of killing others for mostly no reason. It also gives other players a visual warning to avoid that player.

    In Sea of Thieves u can implement this system (in their own way) so people who want to PVP but are not brave enough to sail under the PVP flag are still marked on the map in this system. Giving those who want to retaliate a chance to find the aggressor and in case that aggressor is just a griefer he'll be attackable by other players without risking to get a skull theirselves.

    This is just an anti-griefing system, how is this bad?

    I've already explained why...

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @fakkejoe

    Because your suggestion essentially creates consequences for choosing to sink another ship.

    One of the best things about Sea of Thieves and one of the biggest things that makes it what it is, is that the game is not designed to suggest certain player behaviors. It simply gives you the tools and you act as you please. @Galactic-Geek hit on that point as well, took the words out of my mouth.

    Tools, not rules.

  • AmbiguousMonk
    Insider

    I'm with the others that feel that this system doesn't jive with the general ethos and design of SoT. Really, all that needs to be done is the introduction of real risks to initiating combat, so attacking another player becomes an actual calculated decision, rather that the "eh, sure why not" scenario we see now. We don't necessarily need whole new systems in the game to do this.

    Even increasing the distance at which the details of a ship can be made out (type of sails, hull, flag, etc) would help to this end, as it would allow players to identify previously-encountered ships much easier and thus, be able to respond to them sooner. I would love if this was somehow tied to being in the crow's nest, to make it more commonly useful to have someone up there regularly. Right now, the crow's nest is really only very useful for navigating through fog

  • FakkeJoe

    @ambiguousmonk

    Is receiving a certain skull that shows you on the map for a certain time not a risk you have to calculate if u can survive griefing a sloop and after that may get attacked by nearby vessels or be avoided at the same time. It makes you appear as a victorious pirate but maybe also as a person u would like to avoid with your little sloop doing your stories in Adventure.

    Also your idea of increasing distance so you can make out details of a ship sooner to identify an previous agressor is what this "skull-system" does for you.

    I get that it's a pirate game and adventure mode needs it's fair share of risks, but I see alot of people sailing sloops grinding to become the highest level and finish the story who get destroyed for no reason by a bigger boat.

  • AmbiguousMonk
    Insider

    @fakkejoe said in Solution against griefers in Adventure Mode.:

    [...]
    This is just an anti-griefing system, how is this bad?

    There are numerous problems that crop up with a system like that in a game that's as free-form as SoT is. Namely, how does the game algorithmically determine who the aggressor was? The first one to land a hit? Then you remove the possibility of preemptive defense. It's also lets aggressors bypass the system through use of just boarding. Whenever a ship sinks another? This prevents defenders from sinking their aggressors without being marked as an aggressor. Additionally, how does the game handled situations of 3+ ship battles and/or friendly fire?

    It's a neat concept, but not only does it not fit within the SoT ethos, but it also introduces way too many problems that are not easily deal with from the programmers point of view. Besides, a system to avoid 'griefing' already exists. It's called switching servers

    @fakkejoe said in Solution against griefers in Adventure Mode.:

    @ambiguousmonk
    Also your idea of increasing distance so you can make out details of a ship sooner to identify an previous agressor is what this "skull-system" does for you.

    Introducing a new system to mark players isn't what I meant by details. The tools needed to identify a ship already exist. We don't need more, and especially not one's that will be too difficult to actually make functional

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @ambiguousmonk You can already see how many sails a ship has or whether it's crewed by players or skeletons from virtually any distance. This is all the information you need to decide whether or not to approach, ignore, or flee. Everything else is just superfluous and open to interpretation.

    The crow's nest is more useful than I think people give it credit for. Ironically, having said that, it's never done me any good in the fog...

  • ItsKingBertie
    Marauder

    Like the idea but most players who aren’t new only have PVP to do in terms of content, so basically u alienate all of the pirates! (Proper ones that play the game and arnt greif) and anyone who was a greifer just gets a mark to say “I’m a bad man “ which they will like but won’t stop them hopping server to try wipe said mark or still just going around griefing so wouldn’t actually stop anything only if the other players on the server notice his mark on the map and actively avoid them!

  • FakkeJoe

    @ambiguousmonk

    You could adjust this system to see whoever fired a shot in the general direction of a ship that is close enough (determined by devs not me) to trigger the skull system. About the boarding part it's pretty clear, set foot on another teams boat and you are seen as an agressor unless that other ship has an alliance with you.

    In case 3 boats fight which are not in an alliance and thus not working together the skull system works just as I described it. Whoever initiates the fight will be seen as the aggressor (yellow skull) while the one who takes damage first will get a white skull, in case a third party fires after that the same rules apply. Attack a white skull you get yellow, attack a yellow skull you get a white skull for helping out the person who did not initiate the fight.

    And switching servers while doing Tales isn't an option unless the game switches you automatically, you would have to leave your boat and all loot behind to start over.

  • ItsKingBertie
    Marauder

    @galactic-geek said in Solution against griefers in Adventure Mode.:

    I don't want the game to influence my actions; I want to influence my actions.

    The game influences everyone actions - stay the F*%£ away from everybody cus everyone wants to pvp and not have a bounty system or one like this idea above^^

    This game is designed to be about the player interaction so basically this game is - a unbalanced PVP where the general game mechanics can’t stop players abusing the systems. In its current community status that is!

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @fakkejoe So, I get marked as an aggressor for firing a warning shot? No thanks!

    Your idea inherently limits options and overcomplicates matters.

    If you didn't lose everything during a server switch, the game would break due to balance issues. The ONLY time this is allowed is if you are forcibly server-merged unwillingly because there is no more competition left in the previous server.

  • AmbiguousMonk
    Insider

    @galactic-geek You're not wrong, but I still think it'd be good for players to be able to discern the specific cosmetics on a ship from a longer distance so they can determine the 'identity' of individual ships. Players can determine the type of a given ship from a long distance, but not whether that ship is the same individual ship they encountered previously. If anything, this also helps legit pirates to avoid mashing on the same ship over and over again.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @ambiguousmonk If you were attacked by a brigantine previously, it's generally good practice to avoid all brigantines going forward. Also, remember what I said about being superfluous? The appearance of their ship doesn't matter because they can always change it to disguise it (props if they change it to look like another ship they know you consider friendly). Even the holes you left in it during their attack don't matter, since they have the option to scuttle and remove them...

    This also increases the importance of using social interactions and learning the actual names of aggressors and alliance members - that is something that they can't hide (unless they're swimming or emoting 😅).

    If they are truly griefing, and not just playing pirate, this gives you the power to report them - either via XBL's reporting system, or by submitting a support ticket to Rare. If you feel you are being griefed, get a screen capture of their name or a video capture of them in the act as evidence.

  • AmbiguousMonk
    Insider

    @galactic-geek I would argue that's it's not superfluous at all. It's not like there's any additional systems or algorithms being added. It's simply tweaking the current systems. A ship can change their cosmetics anytime they like, if they're willing to travel back to an outpost after every encounter to do so. I say that they ought to retain the element of mystery if they're willing to do that.

    I think the argument that if you're attacked by one type of ship, you should avoid all ships of that type is counterproductive to the livelihood of the game. We want people to interact as much as possible. If a crew is attacked by a brig, then they are free to choose to avoid all brigs, but they should also have the means to possibly meet a different brig and start an alliance for protection or other reasons. Increasing the possibility of identifying previous aggressors only helps with this

    Remembering names and alliances is definitely important, but you typically don't get to see the name of a player until it's already too late for you to avoid them. All I'd like to see is a way of possibly (but not assuredly) be able to identify crews from a larger distance

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @ambiguousmonk The developers recently increased (doubled) the range at which you can see the names of your own crew, while simultaneously decreasing (halved) the range at which you can see the names of rival pirates. There was a reason they did this.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @itskingbertie

    You are so wrong.

    I see posts about people crying because they got sunk, and equally I see people complaining they aren't seeing ships, and others complaining that all of the hostiles have gone to The Arena and Adventure is full of people screwing off to go do stuff by themselves in peace.

    Me? I managed to solo all of my Tall Tales commendations over the course of about 6 or 7 days and did not get attacked or approached in a hostile manner one single time. I was in an alliance for two of those sessions.

    This melodramatic nonsense about getting attacked every time you see a ship or every time you log on even is just that - melodramatic nonsense.

    To me it looks like there's probably a good mix of varied player interactions and a bounty system is unnecessary, nay - detrimental to the way this game works.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @chronodusk While I have yet to complete all of the TT yet (feel free to help a guy out), my experiences thus far have largely mirrored that of @Chronodusk; I rarely, if ever, get attacked since the Anniversary update.

  • xIx ZeNo xIx
    Master
    Insider

    Trying to come up with a way to solve the issue with "griefers" is truly a mission in itself that all the dev teams im sure realize is also quite a task to tend to. Playing for only a month tells me that you're unconfident and inexperienced about and with pvp interactions while trying to complete your voyages there for suggesting a way for there to be some sort of pre-caution of warning of how much another player/crew is aggressive or not.

    How can you tell they're "aggressive"? They could be on their own voyage and you could be on the island they need to be at to complete it as well. Some ppl, like myself, dont trust any other crew. So, if I see your ship where I need to be, prepare to be boarded or sunk bcuz i will attempt to get rid of you if i find your presence to much of a threat to me.
    But, before I do, you'd better notice me coming in and get on that megaphone and start using all sources of communication towards me so I can tell whether or not you're friendly, bcuz I'm on xbox and most of the time, I'm in a party, and like I've said before in other threads, xbox doesn't have the luxury of listening to both party AND game chat at the same time like how PC players can. Otherwise i will always automatically assume you're hostile and attempt to sink you.

    You shouldn't have to know how dangerous the person is in the server, you're pretty much suggesting they have the same mechanics from gta 5 where the more you kill ppl online, the more red your player dot gets on the map.
    QUIT TRYING TO TURN THIS GAME INTO ANOTHER, IT IS ITS OWN GAME! You should just assume right away the capabilities of another crew are quite possibly dangerous enough to take you and your crew out regardless of how aggressive they are.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    I find it interesting that the title of this post insinuates that this proposal is trying to prevent griefing, when every detail just describes a player simply attacking another player. Since when is playing the game in an intended way of play griefing? I get the fact that some people here don't like to attack other players, but your playing a game that allows it. This whole skull system is trying to make villains in a game where their are none.

    This feels like another thread trying to label the simple act of attacking a ship as griefing. Ya'll need to realize that if getting attacked bugs you, maybe this game isn't your thing. People playing the game in this capacity isn't griefing.

    That rant aside, this system is flawed. Attacking first isn't always imply you are the aggressor. Theirs warning shots, and also quite a few ways to circumvent this systems to not be labeled with a red skull. I could simply sneak aboard and steal, use kegs, or just outright ram you. You could try to include attacking players into the equation, however you run into just as many problems and ways to circumvent the system.

  • EllisGoodenough
    Master

    Why is everyone using the term "griefers" to talk about people who PvP on this game ?

  • xIx ZeNo xIx
    Master
    Insider

    @ellisgoodenough bcuz apparently ppl can't tell the difference in between players killing for no personal reason and players killing for the sport of the game.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @xix-zeno-xix There is a way to "hear" game chat while in party chat on Xbox - simply turn on the speech to text accessibility function in your Xbox settings, and any in-game chat in SoT will appear as a text message on your screen. I use it to spy on others all of the time, or to pick up on their presence before ever seeing them. 😉

  • Archangel Timmy
    Legend
    Insider

    @galactic-geek I too use the Speech to Text feature, but I think it may be limited to Xbox One X? I have a few friends who do not have the option to enable this on their OG Xbox, not sure about the S.

    Also, I sent you a PM!

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @archangel-timmy It's an accessibility option - I'd be surprised if it wasn't available on all platforms. PM received and responded to. 😁

  • xIx ZeNo xIx
    Master
    Insider

    @galactic-geek wait what really!? Well geez lol and here I've been just thinking there is no way. Thank you man I'll try to figure that out when I get home. 😂

  • RK1 Turbulence

    This is rich. First of all there is no griefing in this game, none. There is nothing you can do to another ship or it's crew that isn't within the intended gameplay. Ironically, your proposed solution would change that. How do you suppose the game would determine the agressor in a fight in the first place? First shot? First hit? First boarding? There are so many factors at play that it would be impossible to implement a 100% accurate way for the game to know who "started it", and I can guarantee that you would be right back here complaining when players game the system to make the game mark you as the agressor even though you were just defending yourself. Apart from that, making the ships visible on the map is a bad idea. Sure, it would make it easier for you to avoid PvP by playing on the other side of the map, but PvPers are players too and this game is advertized as having PvP in it so it's detrimental to everyone else's experience. It also takes away the mystery of another ship's intentions that adds a lot of suspense to the game and has been a main selling point. Not to mention that it's easy to keep your distance from other ships in the first place, with how far away they are visible compared to their speed.

    I love your remark about being brave enough to fly the reaper's mark though, btw. Lately I find it works best to scare off other players when I'm solo slooping, you can play for hours on end without seeing a soul.

  • Cobboobles
    Marauder

    @archangel-timmy this option is available on all platforms

  • xIx ZeNo xIx
    Master
    Insider

    @fast-bike94 wait do I have to find it in xbox settings or the game settings?

  • Cobboobles
    Marauder

    @xix-zeno-xix xbox

  • xIx ZeNo xIx
    Master
    Insider

    @fast-bike94 thanks bro. :)

Login To Reply
66
Posts
39.4k
Views
3 out of 66