It's a pirate game...

  • EVA1977
    Captain
    Insider

    This is the justification some use to abuse.
    But could it be possible that when activating certain missions your ship is practically safe from attacks? that way some people which feel the seas are unfair can have this option when going about their business without wanting to be bothered. Because of lack of friends or experience etc?

    I know the seas will be much calmer but then again its all the same when people are leaving and not coming back due to negative experiences.

    I personally don't mind the game as is but I know some do not.

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  • gatorwocky
    Captain
    Insider

    "use to abuse." That cracked me up.

    Game provided protection is not needed, IMO.

  • CaliCorsairCat
    Legend
    Insider

    I think the issue can be fixed with two changes, a visual / physical difference between ships engaged in different playstyles and increasing sloop speed to that of the brig. The first point is related to my desire for more ship customization and trade offs. I think the ability to quickly spot voyage type from a distance / ships proficiencies as a merchant ship, voyaging ship, combat focused ship etc will help clarify to others that you have no loot on board and aren't worth the time attacking on tales for example. This could come with tradeoffs like cannons, speed, etc. Sloop speed buff is another consideration to help solo players dodge combat against larger ships more easily. I would like to see both and think it would satisfy both pvp and pve players alike

  • BloodyBil
    Legend
    Insider

    I see where you are coming from but frankly I don't think the game needs safe-zones or safe modes. Not only does it defeat the game's purpose, but it wouldn't help players to get better either. Sinking is never fun, but even for new players, you learn with experience. You develop skills, strategy and an understanding of the world you are playing in. You don't learn and you don't grow if you are sheltered.

    I've always loved this quote from 'Lost':

    "You see this little hole? This moth's just about to emerge. It's in there right now, struggling. It's digging it's way through the thick hide of the cocoon. Now, I could help it - take my knife, gently widen the opening, and the moth would be free - but it would be too weak to survive. Struggle is nature's way of strengthening it."

  • AmbiguousMonk
    Insider

    It's the justification some use to exercise the freedom of action that is supposed to be, and ought to be, a cornerstone of this game. Sure, people can be jerks with that freedom, but that's part of being a pirate: not all pirates are nice. There's nothing that a crew can do that another crew can't avoid. Get attacked by a crew? Fight back and defend yourself. A crew is repeatedly hunting you down? Swap servers. A crew is spawn camping your boat? Scuttle your ship. Want to avoid being attacked at all? Watch the horizon and always be ready to leg it. Don't want to lose your items? Hide them and retrieve them later. The game gives you the tools to escape these situations whenever you like. Do you sometimes have to give up something in order to escape? Sure, but that's the price of being the worse pirate, whether it being outsailed, outsmarted, or simply overpowered

    It's up to the player to navigate the sea that's full of other, both nice and not-so-nice, players. If this isn't what someone wants from a game, then Sea of Thieves is not the game they want. This type of interaction was intended to be and should always be the main feature of this game. The voyages, tales, etc. (as great as they are in and of themselves) just serve as activities to both keep people moving around the world to facilitate player-to-player interactions and to give them something to do between player-to-player encounters. Asking the developers to change this is essentially asking them to completely remake their vision for the game

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @eva1977 said in It's a pirate game...:

    This is the justification some use to abuse.
    But could it be possible that when activating certain missions your ship is practically safe from attacks? that way some people which feel the seas are unfair can have this option when going about their business without wanting to be bothered. Because of lack of friends or experience etc?

    I know the seas will be much calmer but then again its all the same when people are leaving and not coming back due to negative experiences.

    I personally don't mind the game as is but I know some do not.

    It could be possible, but you won't find much support for it here. Too many "real pirate legend super leet scourges of the sea" on this forum would be afraid of not having people not interested in pvp being forced to interact with them.

    They know that no amount of super elite pirate legend skill will actually generate any loot in adventure mode for them to turn in. They know they need the people who aren't interested in pvp to sail around and generate loot in the world for them because they think they're above it because they've watched youtube videos and streamers highlighting the various ways the combat in the game is broken.

    They'll say blah blah its a pirate game but the truth is that even if pve servers were allowed and they opted to continue to play on open pvp servers there would be nothing to stop them from sailing around attacking every player they see. Literally nothing. The truth is they're afraid that they'd end up doing it for nothing as the only people left on the pvp servers would be people who dont want to generate loot but steal it. This is why their other favorite line is "loot isn't yours until you you sell it". Its a nice way around the fact that they don't actually generate loot in the world.

    How do I know this? Because for all the talk about how pvp is so much more respectable because its hard and yak yak yak its really about the loot. We know this because on the current open pvp servers its not PVE only at all, all the dread pirate roberts of SOT are free to sail around and attack anyone they want but many aren't happy because the loot that they are likely to get now (because they wont generate thier own) is not of value to them, they cant sell it...

    Thats why you already see threads begging rare to incentivize attacking players doing the tall tales, crying about how dry the loot is when theres a world chock full of loot all around them with more ways to get it than ever...

    So yea unless Rare ever decides to actually reward pvp for its own sake you can definitely expect all the "real pirates" of this forum to rabidly oppose letting those not interested in pvp out of being forced to "interact" with them.

    Edit: oh yea, I almost forgot, the other reason (and both of these apply to ad hoc pve servers "bought" or whatever as well) is that many also have a hard time telling what actually affects them vs what they are just trying to use to try to feel elevated over others. Boo hoo, if its only pve then someone else could get the same virtual cosmetic item or title that I have that has no effect on anything whatsoever besides my feelings of being somehow better... its the same mindless drek that lead to the "real pirate legend" talk about the time that letters of commendation came about. Too much destination and not enough journey.

  • BloodyBil
    Legend
    Insider

    @natiredgals Ah, like clockwork, on queue for your iconic "You won't get much support here" post. With a thread title like this it was to be expected though right?

    They know that no amount of super elite pirate legend skill will actually generate any loot in adventure mode for them to turn in.

    Again, what makes you think that people who engage in PVP don't do PVE as well? If I am doing a voyage, don't I have the right to attack another ship in between two islands if I please? Is that prohibited by the (trigger warning) Pirate Police?

    How presumptuous to think that people spend all their time hunting for you. Most of the time PVP encounters aren't different from a meg or skalleon encounter. One more potentially lucrative step along the journey.

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @bloodybil said in It's a pirate game...:

    @natiredgals Ah, like clockwork, on queue for your iconic "You won't get much support here" post. With a thread title like this it was to be expected though right?

    They know that no amount of super elite pirate legend skill will actually generate any loot in adventure mode for them to turn in.

    Again, what makes you think that people who engage in PVP don't do PVE as well? If I am doing a voyage, don't I have the right to attack another ship in between two islands if I please? Is that prohibited by the (trigger warning) Pirate Police?

    How presumptuous to think that people spend all their time hunting for you. Most of the time PVP encounters aren't different from a meg or skalleon encounter. One more potentially lucrative step along the journey.

    Well when its debunked I'll stop, as nobody has...Its not like I'm wrong here are the same smoke and mirrors arguments as always.

    And lol yea had you read the whole thing before kneejerking to that factual truth, you'd seen I answered that question, if the REAL PIERATS of SoT were happy to PVE for loot they'd not be on this forum moaning about how dry the loot is due to Tall Tales.

    And I mean, when people try to argue the fact that the pve players who generate the loot in adventure mode are really the ones risking loss when PVP starts they always cite the time spent trying to find and sink a good target so its not like NOBODY is out there just for pvp and ignoring the pve.

    Edit: (in response to yours.) Who said you weren't allowed to do whatever you want? I certainly didn't. Of course you're allowed to do whatever you want its open pvp just like I like it. And again had you actually read my entire post you'd have read the part where even if there were pve only servers, you (and I) would still be allowed do what ever we want on the pvepvp servers we'd be playing on. right?

    So if thats the case, ,who cares if the people who arent interested in PVP go away and do their own thing???

    Answer: the people who aren't interested in PVE.

    Also its funny to me how much you dislike it when I make fun of the silly pIErAT GAEM!!!!1111!!!! nonsense.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @eva1977

    That will be open to abuse a lot.

    Let's say merchant runs will be such a kind of mission, and you're doing an Order of Souls.
    Another crew comes by, says hi, sends you to the ferry, take your skulls and then put on a merchant mission. They now have your skulls and you cannot get them back.

    Yeah, that's gonna be loads of fun ...

  • HARRISONtheFOGO
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @eva1977 Im not going to use the excuse its a pirate game but what this game does provide is equal opportunity. You can put a voyage down and know the risks that follow and strategize and finish the voyage and sell all of your loot or someone can come steal it. The game also lets you steal from others so its not like you are only the one getting killed and raided. Thats why strategy is so important in this game. But to conclude the fact of the matter is Rare made this game a certain way and changes most likely won't be made to put people in a little protective bubble and take away from everyone else playing the game. Just strategize and figure out different ways to overcome obstacles and you will be able to enjoy this amazing game even more! Good luck and have fun!

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @natiredgals i mean from what i see the best crews at pvp are just the best crews across the board at the game, the kos pvp hungry empty ship type of player is easily sunk imo.

    And i can almost say with certainty that i have done more pve and all available non pvp content, resulting in more pve obtained loot than anyone who would accuse me of being afraid to pick up a shovel for going out of my way to pvp and sink them.

    A passive mode is just a cop out sales pitch like it is in gta, pve servers would be better than this.

    Even the loot less tall tales are allowed to be lost and stolen because whether some like it or not the player interaction with the scales tilted toward pvp is just how the core loop of this game is designed.

    If people arent supposed to do this type of stuff or be judged for it, this game is just a self fulfilling propechy of failure because of the design and “it being a pirate game”. Its a hilarious catch 22 where playing like a pirate in a pirate game is frowned upon, because of how pointless/risk free they designed it to be, while also being the main ingredient in the games formula with most endgame and middle of pve activity involving the travel and sale of stealable items.

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @eva1977 In fact, this is the justification we use to show why this game is like it is. Of course, there are people who abuses, yes, they exist, it's common for people to find themselves invincible when behind an avatar or nickname on the internet, but I believe this is not the point here.

    The truth is, this is a pirate game, where the only pirates are the players who are online, pirates are never safe. Many may think that the seas are unfair, but the truth is that it is all very simple to understand: When we are alone, the risk is greater. If a player is peaceful, just keep an eye on the surroudings, the seas are huge, the chance to see other players is very small. If someone "came out of nowhere and attacked you," the only to blame is who was attacked. He knew the sea was hostile, he knew that some other player might "come out of nowhere and attack", he knew.

    I don't believe that the problem is a lack of friends, because it is very simple to get friends to play, sometimes the person only wants to play alone, and this choice has its risks (as I mentioned above). Lack of experience? Maybe, but it's simple to get experience. This is a simple game.

    If people are quitting because of a bad experience, this may not be the game for them. I for example didn't play Dark Souls, not because of its difficulty, but because I didn't like the game, and at no time did I go to their forum to ask for changes.

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @targasbr said in It's a pirate game...:

    @eva1977 In fact, this is the justification we use to show why this game is like it is. Of course, there are people who abuses, yes, they exist, it's common for people to find themselves invincible when behind an avatar or nickname on the internet, but I believe this is not the point here.

    The truth is, this is a pirate game, where the only pirates are the players who are online, pirates are never safe. Many may think that the seas are unfair, but the truth is that it is all very simple to understand: When we are alone, the risk is greater. If a player is peaceful, just keep an eye on the surroudings, the seas are huge, the chance to see other players is very small. If someone "came out of nowhere and attacked you," the only to blame is who was attacked. He knew the sea was hostile, he knew that some other player might "come out of nowhere and attack", he knew.

    I don't believe that the problem is a lack of friends, because it is very simple to get friends to play, sometimes the person only wants to play alone, and this choice has its risks (as I mentioned above). Lack of experience? Maybe, but it's simple to get experience. This is a simple game.

    If people are quitting because of a bad experience, this may not be the game for them. I for example didn't play Dark Souls, not because of its difficulty, but because I didn't like the game, and at no time did I go to their forum to ask for changes.

    hurr dur pirate game
    hurr dur dont ask for changes.
    It boggles the mind you need so many words to say so little. Edit: sorry, thats not fair, you did also manage the classic "git gud" as well.

    people can ask for whatever they want regardless of how many examples games you don't play that you give, lol.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @natiredgals you arent wrong that people are allowed their opinions but imo the passive mode idea shouldnt be the hill you die on, crossplay ally. Lol. Private servers would be a much better addition/solution for everyone and people can hide behind “its a pirate game” to justify actual toxicity, but people can also hide behind real world morals as if they apply to in game actions when we are playing a game about piracy.

    Both are bad ways to approach playing this game, and having fun doing it. And bad attitudes to have when giving or responding to feedback.

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @a-cranky-eskimo

    I'm not into passive mode, myself but I'll rebut every single person who tries to tell someone its not feedback they should give.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @natiredgals i completely agree with that but with the title of the post acting as if all piracy is to be frowned upon based on the forums general consensus on the pve response to “its a pirate game”, what can the OP expect? It is a pirate game lol. I know i know, but rare has said no to safe zones and said its a matter of when not if for private servers. So i dont really think this thread is any more productive for fixing the OP’s issue as it just argumentative against people who choose to pvp and are allowed to.

    A more productive thread would be making tall tales designed to be less easily “griefed” if thats what intentionally making quest items physical is in rares eyes, an oversight and a mistake. But i think this again aswell as “no safe zones” (yes “no ai ships” i know its not set in stone) this is an intentional part of their design so there is risk of failure due to pvp.

    No safe zones, except when you decide to make the entire map a safe zone and take up a slot on a server? No thanks. Private servers please.

    By all means give the feedback, and the OP usually gives good feedback, but this post isnt actionable or much of anything except an advertisement that the Op like pve more than pvp, atleast with things like tall tales.

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @a-cranky-eskimo said in It's a pirate game...:

    @natiredgals i completely agree with that but with the title of the post acting as if all piracy is to be frowned upon based on the forums general consensus on the pve response to “its a pirate game”, what can the OP expect? It is a pirate game lol. I know i know, but rare has said no to safe zones and said its a matter of when not if for private servers. So i dont really think this thread is any more productive for fixing the OP’s issue as it just argumentative against people who choose to pvp and are allowed to.

    A more productive thread would be making tall tales designed to be less easily “griefed” if thats what intentionally making quest items physical is in rares eyes, an oversight and a mistake. But i think this again aswell as “no safe zones” (yes “no ai ships” i know its not set in stone) this is an intentional part of their design so there is risk of failure due to pvp.

    No safe zones, except when you decide to make the entire map a safe zone and take up a slot on a server? No thanks. Private servers please.

    By all means give the feedback, and the OP usually gives good feedback, but this post isnt actionable or much of anything except an advertisement that the Op like pve more than pvp, atleast with things like tall tales.

    You've got me all wrong.
    I love piracy. I steal valuable items from players too.
    I just hate the "its a pirate game" cop out.
    And I explained why I think its disingenious. because even if people could pve only on another sever whats to stop all these "true pirates" from remaining so on regular servers?

  • ViperishEmu2992
    Marauder

    I have been advocating a PvE mode for some time now. I wouldn't play it myself. But there is obviously a large demand for it and the more players this game has the better for Rare and the better for everyone (from a business perspective). We all win when the player base is bigger. Arena wins, Adventure wins and a Passive Mode wins.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    I completely agree, but i also dont want adventure to be arena mode either, but we all know my stance on rep and gold gains in pve/private servers by now lol.

    A passive mode in regular servers is just bad design and is all i really was here to say at first.

    But i also think compared to a lot of the feedback and actual heart of a lot of pve suggestions, “its a pirate game” isnt such bad reasoning to reply with lol. But as an excuse for trolling or whatever it is what it is.

    Still all about perspective, and what rare allowed with their design, combined with it being a video game and not real lol.

    Imo those people who message you after a loss or even if you interfere with a tale, are worse or looking at it the wrong way compared to someone who enjoys being successful at pirate actions in a pirate game, which arent nice actions by most standards. This game should abide by more pirate standards and people should accept that imo.

  • EVA1977
    Captain
    Insider

    There is a difference between "pirating" and kicking someone when they are down. Even pirates had some honor.
    To translate in today's modern world. Even COD, a war game, has rules.
    Not saying i want restrictions on everything but sometimes unwritten rules are not respected and technically there is no fixing that aside from in game restrictions.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @eva1977 said in It's a pirate game...:

    There is a difference between "pirating" and kicking someone when they are down. Even pirates had some honor.
    To translate in today's modern world. Even COD, a war game, has rules.
    Not saying i want restrictions on everything but sometimes unwritten rules are not respected and technically there is no fixing that aside from in game restrictions.

    Which unwritten rules ? Genuine question, but there doesn't seem to be any .... and if there are ... where to find them ... and how to communicate them to the 6 crews on the server ?

    Don't get me wrong, you won't catch me stealing or hiding someone's artifact from a Tall Tale (well, unless that crew is attacking me obviously ;)), I never saw the fun in 'double-gunning' (and what's a pirate without his cutlass anyway), spawn kill or leave an alliance just before turning in loot. Double gunning seems to be fixed but the other things can happen and nobody told me not to do them, you cannot expect the other crews on the server to adhere to these (or perhaps other) rules you sail by on the seas.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @eva1977

    A passive mode with a game that allows a max of 6 ships that are active per server would drastically change any balance in the game world of the styles and abilities of people to play according to their style as people will be restricted of alliance and betrayals, being attacked, attacking, sneaky plays, etc. in addition be really predictable to notice whether someone is 'doing something and cannot be attacked' or going to fight cause well they aren't in that mode. Not to mention the ways these things can be abused, removes the largest threat in the world and all that jazz.

    @NatiRedGals

    I am a pirate that is very vocal about being against any PvE mode that offers the same experience as the Adventure mode due to the reason that it diminishes the styles of play you will encounter in the seas. For the majority people will not take risks when doing PvE if given the chance, 'cause why risk it if you don't need to... it isn't going to be just the diehard PvE never battle, instant scuttle pirates. Therefore affecting the hostility on the PvPvE servers in a negative manner. If you want a PvE experience, make a new one, a new faction a new reward with its own challenges. A watered down version of the game is just bad for quality.

    I for one am doing PvE for the majority of my times on the seas and even tend to be a pinata that would make most PvP hunters relish upon and yet for some reason by experience and knowledge I rarely get caught. The rest of the time I tend to go out and interact with people, I head out (mostly as a solo) to crews that I spot and see how they respond: Battle, Friendly, Truce, Sneaky, Friendly with bad intentions and what not. I have been told that I cannot just roll up to galleons as a solo while they try to kill me, been shot at, been greeted with fear, paranoia, friendliness and in any way imaginable. This is the mystery of the sails that draws me in and without a single doubt in my mind a passive / PvE adventure mode will affect this style of play as well based on is the ship passive or not or am I on a PvE or PvPvE server will be predictable.

    I am a legend and I do not hunt players down as my main goal pretty much ever. Please stop trying to depict anyone that enjoys the game for what it has to offer and doesn't stand behind the notion of a PvE or Passive mode to be some bloodthirsty hound. There people like that and I have met them, but it is far from the majority or only people that oppose your notion of a stripped down mode would be good for the quality of the game.

    For both of you and for the others reading this:

    The majority of battles are made by opportunity, is it nearby, are they standing still for longer periods of time, are they anchored, did they guard their ladders, did they notice I boarded them, did they have a gun powder lying in their hull (it happens), are they stacked with treasure, etc. Most pirates aren't bloodthirsty hounds, they are opportunistic scheming pirates that will take any situation that is to good to be true, seems like fun and roll with it or their own paranoia kicks in and they choose to just get rid of all other crews, cause lets face it we are all pirates here where trust is hard to earn.

    This is an open world, a shared experience where we are provided with all the tools required to play the way you want. Want to be a friendly pirate go for it, want to be cutthroat go for it, want to be sneaky go for it, want to be a mystery go for it... in the end pirates do not appear out of thin air, awareness is a key skill to learn in this game and once you learn to watch those horizons you will have time to decide how you want to respond to those sails: Flee, Stand your ground: try to Negotiate or Battle. That is what it means to be a free roaming pirate, you decide how you respond to the threats out on there in this online shared world multiplayer.

    Nobody said that being a pirate is an easy life, this is a game where loss and winning go hand in hand and where session progression is always on the line. It is what makes this game have replay ability, the mystery, the unknown, the risks and the interactions... why take away from that by adding rules or choices made at the menu screen? Learn from your experiences, create your own code and above all just try to enjoy regardless of whether you made nothing in the end or hundreds of thousands in treasure, tons of reputation or finished off those last commendations it is the risks we take on the seas. A pirate life is about living in the moment.

    The main design principle is: Tools not Rules and the mantra of the development team is: be more pirate. That does not mean be more cutthroat or bloodthirsty, it means use those tools to be the type of pirate that suits you and become more of it by experience, knowledge, wit and stubbornness.

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @cotu42 said in It's a pirate game...:

    @eva1977

    A passive mode with a game that allows a max of 6 ships that are active per server would drastically change any balance in the game world of the styles and abilities of people to play according to their style as people will be restricted of alliance and betrayals, being attacked, attacking, sneaky plays, etc. in addition be really predictable to notice whether someone is 'doing something and cannot be attacked' or going to fight cause well they aren't in that mode. Not to mention the ways these things can be abused, removes the largest threat in the world and all that jazz.

    @NatiRedGals

    I am a pirate that is very vocal about being against any PvE mode that offers the same experience as the Adventure mode due to the reason that it diminishes the styles of play you will encounter in the seas. For the majority people will not take risks when doing PvE if given the chance, 'cause why risk it if you don't need to... it isn't going to be just the diehard PvE never battle, instant scuttle pirates. Therefore affecting the hostility on the PvPvE servers in a negative manner. If you want a PvE experience, make a new one, a new faction a new reward with its own challenges. A watered down version of the game is just bad for quality.

    I for one am doing PvE for the majority of my times on the seas and even tend to be a pinata that would make most PvP hunters relish upon and yet for some reason by experience and knowledge I rarely get caught. The rest of the time I tend to go out and interact with people, I head out (mostly as a solo) to crews that I spot and see how they respond: Battle, Friendly, Truce, Sneaky, Friendly with bad intentions and what not. I have been told that I cannot just roll up to galleons as a solo while they try to kill me, been shot at, been greeted with fear, paranoia, friendliness and in any way imaginable. This is the mystery of the sails that draws me in and without a single doubt in my mind a passive / PvE adventure mode will affect this style of play as well based on is the ship passive or not or am I on a PvE or PvPvE server will be predictable.

    I am a legend and I do not hunt players down as my main goal pretty much ever. Please stop trying to depict anyone that enjoys the game for what it has to offer and doesn't stand behind the notion of a PvE or Passive mode to be some bloodthirsty hound. There people like that and I have met them, but it is far from the majority or only people that oppose your notion of a stripped down mode would be good for the quality of the game.

    For both of you and for the others reading this:

    The majority of battles are made by opportunity, is it nearby, are they standing still for longer periods of time, are they anchored, did they guard their ladders, did they notice I boarded them, did they have a gun powder lying in their hull (it happens), are they stacked with treasure, etc. Most pirates aren't bloodthirsty hounds, they are opportunistic scheming pirates that will take any situation that is to good to be true, seems like fun and roll with it or their own paranoia kicks in and they choose to just get rid of all other crews, cause lets face it we are all pirates here where trust is hard to earn.

    This is an open world, a shared experience where we are provided with all the tools required to play the way you want. Want to be a friendly pirate go for it, want to be cutthroat go for it, want to be sneaky go for it, want to be a mystery go for it... in the end pirates do not appear out of thin air, awareness is a key skill to learn in this game and once you learn to watch those horizons you will have time to decide how you want to respond to those sails: Flee, Stand your ground: try to Negotiate or Battle. That is what it means to be a free roaming pirate, you decide how you respond to the threats out on there in this online shared world multiplayer.

    Nobody said that being a pirate is an easy life, this is a game where loss and winning go hand in hand and where session progression is always on the line. It is what makes this game have replay ability, the mystery, the unknown, the risks and the interactions... why take away from that by adding rules or choices made at the menu screen? Learn from your experiences, create your own code and above all just try to enjoy regardless of whether you made nothing in the end or hundreds of thousands in treasure, tons of reputation or finished off those last commendations it is the risks we take on the seas. A pirate life is about living in the moment.

    The main design principle is: Tools not Rules and the mantra of the development team is: be more pirate. That does not mean be more cutthroat or bloodthirsty, it means use those tools to be the type of pirate that suits you and become more of it by experience, knowledge, wit and stubbornness.

    HHAHAHAHAH I deleted it but I called it Tools vs rules....

    Oh so many words and none of it really addresses the crux of the matter which is that if the people not interested in pvp are allowed a pve server the rest of us like you and I will continue to play the same as we do now on a regular.

  • BloodyBil
    Legend
    Insider

    @natiredgals said in It's a pirate game...:

    @bloodybil said in It's a pirate game...:

    @natiredgals Ah, like clockwork, on queue for your iconic "You won't get much support here" post. With a thread title like this it was to be expected though right?

    They know that no amount of super elite pirate legend skill will actually generate any loot in adventure mode for them to turn in.

    Again, what makes you think that people who engage in PVP don't do PVE as well? If I am doing a voyage, don't I have the right to attack another ship in between two islands if I please? Is that prohibited by the (trigger warning) Pirate Police?

    How presumptuous to think that people spend all their time hunting for you. Most of the time PVP encounters aren't different from a meg or skalleon encounter. One more potentially lucrative step along the journey.

    Well when its debunked I'll stop, as nobody has...Its not like I'm wrong here are the same smoke and mirrors arguments as always.

    There is nothing to be debunked, this is a pirate game, where people are allowed, and even encouraged to play as such. Saying an argument isn't valid because you can't rebuke it won't make it less valid.

    And lol yea had you read the whole thing before kneejerking to that factual truth, you'd seen I answered that question, if the REAL PIERATS of SoT were happy to PVE for loot they'd not be on this forum moaning about how dry the loot is due to Tall Tales.

    Ok? There was what, 1-2 threads at best about tale loot worth? Mostly in reply to the dozens of threads of people crying about losing their tale stuff in various attacks. Doesn't mean they don't do PVE as well.

    And I mean, when people try to argue the fact that the pve players who generate the loot in adventure mode are really the ones risking loss when PVP starts they always cite the time spent trying to find and sink a good target so its not like NOBODY is out there just for pvp and ignoring the pve.

    I never said NOBODY out there does only PVP, you are the one that implies that anyone that attacks another ship never do any PVE at all and simply wait for ships to rob. I don't care about your "risk" or time spent poking dirt. I don't care about the time required to heist an athena, or stumbling by luck on a ship going to sell and engaging them. Neither activities are worth more than another. PVP isn't more important or risky than PVE. PVE is not more important or risky than PVP. You are not special because you dug up a chest. You are not special for stealing it either.

    Edit: (in response to yours.) Who said you weren't allowed to do whatever you want? I certainly didn't. Of course you're allowed to do whatever you want its open pvp just like I like it. And again had you actually read my entire post you'd have read the part where even if there were pve only servers, you (and I) would still be allowed do what ever we want on the pvepvp servers we'd be playing on. right?

    You keep separating PVE and PVE like people only do one or the other. The only examples of PVP you mention are people camping or waiting for people with loot. I tried to explain that most people do both, and that it's not because you engage in one activity, that you aren't in the middle of another. That concept seems strangely hard to understand.

    So if thats the case, ,who cares if the people who arent interested in PVP go away and do their own thing???

    Answer: the people who aren't interested in PVE.

    Lots of people care apparently. Clearly you don't since you aren't bothered about spreading the community as thinly as possible in as many player pools as possible.

    Also its funny to me how much you dislike it when I make fun of the silly pIErAT GAEM!!!!1111!!!! nonsense.

    Oh I don't dislike it, I find it endearing really. Makes me reminisce of a time where we would parrot eachother in silly voices to make a point in the schoolyard. Still not very effective, but carry on!

    I'm not into passive mode, myself but I'll rebut every single person who tries to tell someone its not feedback they should give.

    How noble. Who exactly says people can't give their feedback? OP gave his, people are giving theirs. Too bad if it's not the answers desired.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @natiredgals

    Clearly you didn't read it properly or really didn't get the message:

    1. PvE servers is more rules and would result in it being a menu choice on how you want to play
    2. It removes the mystery from the game as not only die-hard PvE people will use the option?
      2.1 Why risk the session progress if you aren't out to interact with others?
      2.2 The world will just become more battle focused than it already is because of it and therefore more predictable based on a menu choice.

    It removes the mystery of the seas and the variety of people you will meet. Want a PvE mode, be more creative than to create something that just takes away from adventure mode by offering the same with just the biggest risks and interesting aspect removed aka other players as a threat.

    For me it would make the seas a predictable place and removes my way of playing, the aspects that keep me playing. I doubt I will stick around for long after something like this is introduced due to boredom by mere predictability.

    Edit: btw PvE people can already play PvE if they just learn to use the Tools at their disposal, all PvP can be avoided by proper awareness and sailing.

  • ChaosLord10
    Sailor

    I’ve seen a lot of these arguments in several different threads. I am about 90% PvE player. I will usually fight a fair fight. It can be exciting and fun. But there are times when I just want to go dig up a chest or two, maybe hunt down a skelly captain, and move on with my day. Not enough time in my very busy life to sit for hours and get better. What would be the harm in adding a PvE server really? Less easy targets for PvPers so they actually have to take their own advice? There was a post in another thread where a guys kid wanted to play, but sometimes when he gets on there is nothing but violence and profanity being shouted on game chat. That’s sad when you have to tell your kid no because you simply don’t want them subjected to all of the negativity and can understand how to deal with it. There are lots of legitimate arguments for a PvE server and only a few against. Most of the arguments against it are “get better and learn” or something along the lines of the original intent of the game. “It’s a pirate game, get used to it.” Those aren’t legitimate arguments.

  • SquaZ05
    Captain
    Founder

    @natiredgals said in It's a pirate game...:

    @cotu42 said in It's a pirate game...:

    @eva1977

    A passive mode with a game that allows a max of 6 ships that are active per server would drastically change any balance in the game world of the styles and abilities of people to play according to their style as people will be restricted of alliance and betrayals, being attacked, attacking, sneaky plays, etc. in addition be really predictable to notice whether someone is 'doing something and cannot be attacked' or going to fight cause well they aren't in that mode. Not to mention the ways these things can be abused, removes the largest threat in the world and all that jazz.

    @NatiRedGals

    I am a pirate that is very vocal about being against any PvE mode that offers the same experience as the Adventure mode due to the reason that it diminishes the styles of play you will encounter in the seas. For the majority people will not take risks when doing PvE if given the chance, 'cause why risk it if you don't need to... it isn't going to be just the diehard PvE never battle, instant scuttle pirates. Therefore affecting the hostility on the PvPvE servers in a negative manner. If you want a PvE experience, make a new one, a new faction a new reward with its own challenges. A watered down version of the game is just bad for quality.

    I for one am doing PvE for the majority of my times on the seas and even tend to be a pinata that would make most PvP hunters relish upon and yet for some reason by experience and knowledge I rarely get caught. The rest of the time I tend to go out and interact with people, I head out (mostly as a solo) to crews that I spot and see how they respond: Battle, Friendly, Truce, Sneaky, Friendly with bad intentions and what not. I have been told that I cannot just roll up to galleons as a solo while they try to kill me, been shot at, been greeted with fear, paranoia, friendliness and in any way imaginable. This is the mystery of the sails that draws me in and without a single doubt in my mind a passive / PvE adventure mode will affect this style of play as well based on is the ship passive or not or am I on a PvE or PvPvE server will be predictable.

    I am a legend and I do not hunt players down as my main goal pretty much ever. Please stop trying to depict anyone that enjoys the game for what it has to offer and doesn't stand behind the notion of a PvE or Passive mode to be some bloodthirsty hound. There people like that and I have met them, but it is far from the majority or only people that oppose your notion of a stripped down mode would be good for the quality of the game.

    For both of you and for the others reading this:

    The majority of battles are made by opportunity, is it nearby, are they standing still for longer periods of time, are they anchored, did they guard their ladders, did they notice I boarded them, did they have a gun powder lying in their hull (it happens), are they stacked with treasure, etc. Most pirates aren't bloodthirsty hounds, they are opportunistic scheming pirates that will take any situation that is to good to be true, seems like fun and roll with it or their own paranoia kicks in and they choose to just get rid of all other crews, cause lets face it we are all pirates here where trust is hard to earn.

    This is an open world, a shared experience where we are provided with all the tools required to play the way you want. Want to be a friendly pirate go for it, want to be cutthroat go for it, want to be sneaky go for it, want to be a mystery go for it... in the end pirates do not appear out of thin air, awareness is a key skill to learn in this game and once you learn to watch those horizons you will have time to decide how you want to respond to those sails: Flee, Stand your ground: try to Negotiate or Battle. That is what it means to be a free roaming pirate, you decide how you respond to the threats out on there in this online shared world multiplayer.

    Nobody said that being a pirate is an easy life, this is a game where loss and winning go hand in hand and where session progression is always on the line. It is what makes this game have replay ability, the mystery, the unknown, the risks and the interactions... why take away from that by adding rules or choices made at the menu screen? Learn from your experiences, create your own code and above all just try to enjoy regardless of whether you made nothing in the end or hundreds of thousands in treasure, tons of reputation or finished off those last commendations it is the risks we take on the seas. A pirate life is about living in the moment.

    The main design principle is: Tools not Rules and the mantra of the development team is: be more pirate. That does not mean be more cutthroat or bloodthirsty, it means use those tools to be the type of pirate that suits you and become more of it by experience, knowledge, wit and stubbornness.

    HHAHAHAHAH I deleted it but I called it Tools vs rules....

    Oh so many words and none of it really addresses the crux of the matter which is that if the people not interested in pvp are allowed a pve server the rest of us like you and I will continue to play the same as we do now on a regular.

    Look at a game called Elite Dangerous
    they have private servers and open servers
    a while back you could do everything in private servers, including gaining faction, trading, mining etc without being bothered... so much that no one would play on open servers except 1 group of people. The ones going around killing new players in starter systems (default is open)

    go on their forums and look at their main concerns
    hint: Devs are trying everything to get people to play on open servers
    They had to change some game mechanics to FORCE people to join the open servers. And more changes are coming.

    In the end, you won't be able to do much in private servers, if you want to run missions or community goals or wtv they are called now after numerous changes, you will need to go on OPEN.

    Sea of thieves should learn from the issues a similar type of game is having. Private servers in an open pvpve sandbox game does not work.

    question: Why would I run an Athena voyage in open when I can do it risk-free in a private server? or in passive mode?

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @chaoslord10 said in It's a pirate game...:

    I’ve seen a lot of these arguments in several different threads. I am about 90% PvE player. I will usually fight a fair fight. It can be exciting and fun. But there are times when I just want to go dig up a chest or two, maybe hunt down a skelly captain, and move on with my day. Not enough time in my very busy life to sit for hours and get better. What would be the harm in adding a PvE server really? Less easy targets for PvPers so they actually have to take their own advice? There was a post in another thread where a guys kid wanted to play, but sometimes when he gets on there is nothing but violence and profanity being shouted on game chat. That’s sad when you have to tell your kid no because you simply don’t want them subjected to all of the negativity and can understand how to deal with it. There are lots of legitimate arguments for a PvE server and only a few against. Most of the arguments against it are “get better and learn” or something along the lines of the original intent of the game. “It’s a pirate game, get used to it.” Those aren’t legitimate arguments.

    It is a Shared World Multiplayer Game! Why must your style come at a sacrifice of mine? Learning to play the game is part of gaming, losing is part of gaming... if you want to sit back and have a care free entertaining experience... are you sure you want to be playing a multiplayer game, where yes you have to play against and with other people?

    One of the biggest things about playing games is to be challenged, to learn, to improve, to lose and to win... especially in a multiplayer shared world environment. It is what you bought.... a PvE server decreases the quality of life for those wanting to experience that, so yes... those are legitimate arguments.

  • ChaosLord10
    Sailor

    @cotu42 There are lots of games like that. Destiny for example. You are playing with people on a server and have the option to play against. Adding a PvE server means it would be separate from PvP worlds. The only thing you would lose is looting a ship whose captain is yelling “WE’RE FRIENDLY!” while you shoot him/her and the whole crew in the back.

  • ChaosLord10
    Sailor

    @cotu42 That means you would be able to fight to your heart’s content with other gamers that are in the game for the same reason and would give you the challenge you are seeking so you can improve your gameplay and so on.

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @cotu42 said in It's a pirate game...:

    @chaoslord10 said in It's a pirate game...:

    I’ve seen a lot of these arguments in several different threads. I am about 90% PvE player. I will usually fight a fair fight. It can be exciting and fun. But there are times when I just want to go dig up a chest or two, maybe hunt down a skelly captain, and move on with my day. Not enough time in my very busy life to sit for hours and get better. What would be the harm in adding a PvE server really? Less easy targets for PvPers so they actually have to take their own advice? There was a post in another thread where a guys kid wanted to play, but sometimes when he gets on there is nothing but violence and profanity being shouted on game chat. That’s sad when you have to tell your kid no because you simply don’t want them subjected to all of the negativity and can understand how to deal with it. There are lots of legitimate arguments for a PvE server and only a few against. Most of the arguments against it are “get better and learn” or something along the lines of the original intent of the game. “It’s a pirate game, get used to it.” Those aren’t legitimate arguments.

    It is a Shared World Multiplayer Game! Why must your style come at a sacrifice of mine? Learning to play the game is part of gaming, losing is part of gaming... if you want to sit back and have a care free entertaining experience... are you sure you want to be playing a multiplayer game, where yes you have to play against and with other people?

    One of the biggest things about playing games is to be challenged, to learn, to improve, to lose and to win... especially in a multiplayer shared world environment. It is what you bought.... a PvE server decreases the quality of life for those wanting to experience that, so yes... those are legitimate arguments.

    The idea that you would have to sacrifice anything is still false. You could still play on the same servers as you do now with the people who like the game as it is like you and I.

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @chaoslord10

    You're making a mistake engaging on that level. Its not really about any of that, its about two things.

    1. being afraid of not enough people generating loot to steal in the game.
    2. being afraid that people will get some meaningless cosmetic or title easier than they did.
  • EVA1977
    Captain
    Insider

    @lem0n-curry That's why it's called an unwritten rule, basically common sense. Even though it is a game, there is a big difference as mentioned from playing and abusing and if you can't tell the difference then that is why programmers are forced to create these "tools" rules.

    But you do understand (double gunning, artifact stealing from the tall tales)
    Some people do just that, just for the heck of it.

  • ChaosLord10
    Sailor

    @natiredgals Other people not generating loot once again goes back to the original intent argument. If you want loot, you have two choices: Steal it or find it yourself. It’s buried all over the place. Go find it. And if the titles are meaningless, then why is there even an argument. I have been playing this game since it launched in 2018. Because of lack of time and extremely aggressive gamers when I DO have time to play, I am STILL not a legend. I think by now, I have had a hard enough time to deserve a chance at one of the meaningless titles. I’m sure I’m not the only one that feels this way or these threads wouldn’t exist.

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