All too often I have formed an alliance with other crews only to be betrayed. My question is why? There is no benefit to betraying an alliance. You don't get more gold, no commendations, so why do people do this so often? I think there needs to be more incentive to work in an alliance, like a bonus to gold/rep. Other things could include more alliance based commendations to unlock cosmetics. Maybe some special voyage bounties to fight ships similar to the fleet battles, but you make an alliance and hunt down a number of skele ships. I get that its "SeA oF tHiEvEs, NoT sEa Of FrIeNdS", but whats wrong with making friends? Maybe I just don't understand the appeal of playing a multi-person crew based game as a solo sloop, but that is all I seem to see in game. Just something to make even trying to form an alliance worth it.
Player alliances
Rare originally implemented Alliances as a way to increase player interaction.
Alliances have always been a point of contention. Some players feel that they go too far and others feel they don't go far enough.
My guess is that Rare aren't exactly sure exactly which way they want to go with Alliances yet? Maybe they are waiting to see how Arena Mode affects the community?
But Alliances are a useful tool for controlling social interaction. So as a mechanic it's there (and established) should Rare wish to passively affect players behaviour in the future.
Maybe people simply don't understand how alliances work and fear they will lose gold. Perhaps when forming an alliance, players in the know could clarify what happens. Maybe you could even discuss how to make the alliance work e.g. we sail together for quests or we sail independently and just have a mutual understanding that we don't attack.
@an00bus91
So that when you betray, they don't know where you are and hunt you down. I do alliance if I'm ninjaing a chest, but not if I'm sinking them.@an00bus91 i mean technically when you turn something in you get 100% and they get 50% of that item you turned in. so if they kill you and turn it in their selves they get 100% and you will get the 50% or no percent if they disband the alliance. so there is a reason to do it i suppose.
its just human nature. you gota try to read people and if you have a funny feeling be on guard. ive been in alliances i dont trust at all and if they get near my ship ill tell them to back off and if they dont i kill them. then ive been in alliances were we are like best buddies and dancing on each others ships having mutually decided on duels and all sorts of fun. i think its the pirate way to make alliances this way and have risk. and before alliances were a thing there was absolutely no reason to sail together with others. so this has made a huge difference although some may not remember the olden days or may not have been here for them.
My question is why? There is no benefit to betraying an alliance. You don't get more gold, no commendations, so why do people do this so often?
Their is plenty of reasons for both betraying as well as cooperating. The thing it depends on is short term vs. long term goals. Also adding in a factor of fun. However, their is plenty of short term benefits for betraying, take forts for an example. I could betray you, and take the whole cut, that's a 100% of all the loot, not 50% of some of the loot. I made more profit by betraying than I did for cooperating. Alliances also work as a great tracking system to steal Athena Chests, of which has a commendation attached to it. Not Alliance related, but still works great as a tool to accomplish the feat.
Long term goals is where Alliances shine, with no effort you collect on 50% of everything. I think your crazy to think that that isn't enough incentive to get people to cooperate. Sometimes people just like having a bit of fun, and conflict over loot can be quite enjoyable. I think you may be taking Alliance betrayals too seriously. Give a betrayal a try, you might just enjoy it they are quite fun.
Rare has a philosophy of Tools not Rules. That is what an Alliance is its up to the player to decide how they want to use that tool. If you put rules and more incentive with Alliances, your shifting the balance on how people will use that tool.
Alliances were never meant to make things more friendly. But rather they simply add another layer to player interactions. Cooperation will have it's benefits, but betrayal is also a compelling way to play.
By the way, it is perfectly decent to betray other crews, it doesn't mean someone is toxic or a bad person.
I would also argue that betrayal does come with it's benefits. It is actually one of the key ways to steal an Athena, considering there is a commendation based on doing just that.
You know... meet up with a non-legend crew, play nice and send them on their way to work on an Athena, watch them on the map then swoop in at the last moment to unleash some glorious piracy and claim their Athena for yourself. It's just the game pal. We're in the Sea of Thieves!
I'm not suggesting that's the only way to play this game by any means, but it is certainly valid and decent. It makes the game more interesting.
Betrayal could be considered pirate-y but I think it's just annoying and cowardly. PvP is fun, but it's not fun when you are betrayed because an allied member can double-cross you without any penalty to themselves.
You should not be allowed to leave an alliance so easily. There should be a timer which begins when you leave an alliance, say 5 minutes. If you leave, your ex - allied members are notified that you have left the alliance, but they will still receive 50% of any gold you earn for those 5 minutes after you leave.
This also means that they will spawn closer to you, and know where you are within those 5 minutes, should you choose to kill or sink them
@RevanJStone
Just to say human nature is highly about cooperation and supporting each other.
Some children learn in their 1st year to do the opposite is better or more successfull, because someone in their family is also more successfull with not cooperating, but dictating, supressing others etc....
cooperation is allways superior to any form of competition.@an00bus91 said in Player alliances:
All too often I have formed an alliance with other crews only to be betrayed. My question is why? There is no benefit to betraying an alliance. You don't get more gold, no commendations, so why do people do this so often? I think there needs to be more incentive to work in an alliance, like a bonus to gold/rep. Other things could include more alliance based commendations to unlock cosmetics. Maybe some special voyage bounties to fight ships similar to the fleet battles, but you make an alliance and hunt down a number of skele ships. I get that its "SeA oF tHiEvEs, NoT sEa Of FrIeNdS", but whats wrong with making friends? Maybe I just don't understand the appeal of playing a multi-person crew based game as a solo sloop, but that is all I seem to see in game. Just something to make even trying to form an alliance worth it.
You already get bonus rep and gold for alliance turn ins... If you're out to PVE there is no reason to not be in an alliance. But with such a huge reward comes a huge risk, it's part of the game matey.
@an00bus91 said in Player alliances:
All too often I have formed an alliance with other crews only to be betrayed. My question is why? There is no benefit to betraying an alliance. You don't get more gold, no commendations, so why do people do this so often?
Pirate game.
@fast-bike94 sagte in Player alliances:
@bugaboo-bill it's still more fun to just sink someone and take their loot, the messages that they send you in dms also make it a nice touch
This is a game, i just wanted to point out that beeing uncooperative is not what human nature is, but something you can learn in your very first year, most learn that beeing cooperative is superior to be not cooperative.
What is more fun in a game or whatever is completely different thing.
I also like to PvP, but honestly wouldn't get much from it if people message me, except they do it politely and thank us for a good fight or whatever.
I assume you have fun reading if people get upset because you sunk them?
I maybe direct you to this post of mine of today about that ;-)
https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/92753/save-the-adventure-mode-its-dying/27@fast-bike94 sagte in Player alliances:
@bugaboo-bill yes I've seen that post and yes if I get a message saying gg I will respond and be a good sport if they send hatemail I don't responds and just sit and laugh while some guy is getting extremely mad at some pixels
Sour loosers are as bad as toxic trashtalkers. True!
Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.
And it's a game, it should be fun anyway you loose sometimes.
If i cannot get over it o just dont play.
I also had days i just quit the Session because i lost. Doesn't matter why, be it the lag, rngesus, or others just be better, or my lazy aproach...
But i dont get upset or anything, i quit and say to myself next time and thats it.
3 minutes later i sometimes want to get back and give itone more try :D
But it's also good to know when it's better to just let it go for today :)@jack3ast said in Player alliances:
@an00bus91 said in Player alliances:
All too often I have formed an alliance with other crews only to be betrayed. My question is why? There is no benefit to betraying an alliance. You don't get more gold, no commendations, so why do people do this so often?
Pirate game.
Pirates are thieves, not liars. Unfortunately online gaming relies on people doing the right thing. If they don’t then it’s ultimately the game and developer that suffers as players vote with their 🦶
@dadiodude
... pirates arn't liars? What do you mean it relies on people doing the 'right thing' (whatever that also is?).They made your alliance attackable for a reason, think about that. A social element to the experiance, who to trust and who not to, how much and with what? Thats the art of this feature.
There is a lot of benefit to betraying an alliance.
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More gold. Why get 50% of something, when I can get 100%.
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Gold sold after a betrayal just sells better. If you haven't tried it, you should. You sell it and its like "man, this was awesome.
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Its easy?
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It teaches players to always watch for the knife in the back.
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It makes players think twice about alliance and maybe after enough chaos and distrust is spread among the world, players will be too untrusting to ever alliance again, OR they will all still ally but will constantly try to back stab each other "I know hes going to betray me, so I'll betray him first."
I like reasons 1, 2, and 5.
In all seriousness I wouldn't betray someone in an alliance myself. However, I wouldn't say anything about anyone else doing the betraying. If they can pull it off, I would be rightly impressed.
Players have tried betraying me, but have failed everything. We got rules on my boat and we follow them. Plain and simple.
Learn and adapt.
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@jack3ast said in Player alliances:
@dadiodude
... pirates arn't liars? What do you mean it relies on people doing the 'right thing' (whatever that also is?).I didn't understand that point either
They made your alliance attackable for a reason, think about that. A social element to the experiance, who to trust and who not to, how much and with what? Thats the art of this feature.
There is already a lot of risk in the Sea of Thieves. Adding the mechanic of allying with others and then backstabbing them is way too easy. I mentioned earlier the need for a cool down when you leave an alliance. Other alliance members still get notified that you have left, and you stay part of the alliance for a set time. This way you can still double cross your alliance but it won't be as easy to get away with it
@xavier-wisde sagte in Player alliances:
Maybe people simply don't understand how alliances work and fear they will lose gold. Perhaps when forming an alliance, players in the know could clarify what happens. Maybe you could even discuss how to make the alliance work e.g. we sail together for quests or we sail independently and just have a mutual understanding that we don't attack.
Yes, maybe a pop-up text when you make an alliance for the first time tells you the benefits...or in the flag-box a description for it...
By the way...I don't know if anyone is aware of this...if this is a bug, please don't fix this:
When an alliance member sinks a skellie ship, it counts towards the athena commendation for every ship in the alliance! Even when you never even saw the skellie ship, and/or you are on the other side of the map
@Xultanis-Dragon add this ☝️ to your list
Its "SeA oF tHiEvEs, NoT sEa Of FrIeNdS" hahahaha
I agree, it's so stupid. I think people just do it because they get bored with the game and this is one of the only ways they can still have a laugh with it.
Also, even if you're in an alliance, the crew which sells the item(s) gets the biggest sum of money. So there is a little benefit when you betray them at the outpost and sell the items yourself. Not worth it imo though.
@an00bus91 "Some men just wanna watch the world burn"
Cant add pictures dont know why anyway, some players just do it for fun and its perfectly ok.
If you bothered to see the trailer of the alliance system that RARE made they clearly said in it to be careful who you trust.
Its your job to decide whenever you decide to trust them or not, and not just putting the invite flag up and believe that they would be with you just because they have accepted it and thats the beauty use your guts to decide and dont take everything for granted just because they they look friendly it dosent mean anything.
And forcing players to be something is a huge turn off for roleplay and interaction its always more fun when its dangerous.@faceyourdemon said in Player alliances:
@an00bus91 "Some men just wanna watch the world burn"
Cant add pictures dont know why anyway, some players just do it for fun and its perfectly ok.
If you bothered to see the trailer of the alliance system that RARE made they clearly said in it to be careful who you trust.
Its your job to decide whenever you decide to trust them or not, and not just putting the invite flag up and believe that they would be with you just because they have accepted it and thats the beauty use your guts to decide and dont take everything for granted just because they they look friendly it dosent mean anything.
And forcing players to be something is a huge turn off for roleplay and interaction its always more fun when its dangerous.We really need PVE PVPVE and arena!
All people who “need” danger and risk and untrustworthy can we’ll all sail around in a server tryna Rob eachother whilst no one is doing anything so nothing to Rob! But hey it’s PVP and it’s not arena.PVP players will use arena to fight
And friendly explorers and people wanting to experience the content and the enviroment will have a world without hassle.
“PIRATE” often games try to be too realistic which is a problem, in this game realism is something far and few between as real pirates were The fewest ships on the sea compared to the game where they are the only ships on the sea, pirates often teamed up and rarely had fights with eachother instead would understand they are in the same boat ;) not literally, and would use this to their advantage! In this game pirates fight pirates and Rob other pirates! Their is no other ship on the sea, players are the merchants and bounty hunters not just pirates having a game where we can be free to role play as a merchant or as a bounty hunter well is pointless and less fun when they isn’t anyone else role playing just killing and stealing, being pirates you could argue everyone is role playing pirates but then who are we stealing and killing when in reality most pirates targeted merchant ships, with that being said is this games whole idea that majority of the community would all bully the small part that wants to role play other ways in this game ie being a merchant! If your the only one out of 10 ships to be a merchant then the game is pointless and should just delete adventure mode and make it a PVP arena with no chests!
The point is I would love a SEA OF FRIENDS one were me and my alliance are the merchants fighting skele ships and megs/ kraken to ensure we get our cargo delivered and times when we are the good guys on the seas getting rid of bounty’s! I Think it’s unfair that the way the community see this is that if ur not killing your there to be killed, yerp u either kill and steal or be killed! Don’t be the guy that was to take in the game form all different angles nope u only get to kill that’s it!
@faceyourdemon said in Player alliances:
@an00bus91 "Some men just wanna watch the world burn"
Cant add pictures dont know why anyway, some players just do it for fun and its perfectly ok.
If you bothered to see the trailer of the alliance system that RARE made they clearly said in it to be careful who you trust.
Its your job to decide whenever you decide to trust them or not, and not just putting the invite flag up and believe that they would be with you just because they have accepted it and thats the beauty use your guts to decide and dont take everything for granted just because they they look friendly it dosent mean anything.
And forcing players to be something is a huge turn off for roleplay and interaction its always more fun when its dangerous.We really need PVE PVPVE and arena!
All people who “need” danger and risk and untrustworthy can we’ll all sail around in a server tryna Rob eachother whilst no one is doing anything so nothing to Rob! But hey it’s PVP and it’s not arena.PVP players will use arena to fight
And friendly explorers and people wanting to experience the content and the enviroment will have a world without hassle.
“PIRATE” often games try to be too realistic which is a problem, in this game realism is something far and few between as real pirates were The fewest ships on the sea compared to the game where they are the only ships on the sea, pirates often teamed up and rarely had fights with eachother instead would understand they are in the same boat ;) not literally, and would use this to their advantage! In this game pirates fight pirates and Rob other pirates! Their is no other ship on the sea, players are the merchants and bounty hunters not just pirates having a game where we can be free to role play as a merchant or as a bounty hunter well is pointless and less fun when they isn’t anyone else role playing just killing and stealing, being pirates you could argue everyone is role playing pirates but then who are we stealing and killing when in reality most pirates targeted merchant ships, with that being said is this games whole idea that majority of the community would all bully the small part that wants to role play other ways in this game ie being a merchant! If your the only one out of 10 ships to be a merchant then the game is pointless and should just delete adventure mode and make it a PVP arena with no chests!
The point is I would love a SEA OF FRIENDS one were me and my alliance are the merchants fighting skele ships and megs/ kraken to ensure we get our cargo delivered and times when we are the good guys on the seas getting rid of bounty’s! I Think it’s unfair that the way the community see this is that if ur not killing your there to be killed, yerp u either kill and steal or be killed! Don’t be the guy that was to take in the game form all different angles nope u only get to kill that’s it!
Alliances were setup to be shakey and unstable by nature where the manner in which the crews approach the situation ensures a good cooperation or a turn for the worse. The joint effort to achieve a goal in the game usually is not required and also contributes to the ability to have a betrayal to happen, which is why usually establishment of a alliance around an objective such as Skull Forts are more likely to happen. Why share when one can have it all.
Alliances are a form to increase income and reputation gains if approached properly over the longer term. They can be extremely profitable, especially if the crews go their separate ways after joining forces.
Alliance betrayals are short term gain and usually a result of opportunity or the end of a session of one of the parties.
I for one have a strict code of pirate interaction which keeps my interests and ship safe in a lot of cases or at least makes a betrayal of the alliance more difficult and provides me the opportunity to react to the situation. Sometimes my code also escalates a situation that results in battle as the other party tests my limits by not following the rules I set out regarding my ship.
Though I will give you that pirates now a days are less likely to be willing to join an alliance, a proper approach can still work.
A couple of tips:
- Communication is key and I will never leave my ship unattended till a proper trust base is established and even then I tend to keep a keen eye on the waters around my ship.
- Keep your ship safe, this is sacred
2.1 Gun Barrels are not permitted within the premise of my ship and will without exception be met with a bullet.
2.2 Canon fire will be returned in kind.
2.3 My ship will never stand broadside to the other ship for them easily to start an engagement and I always have my sails up and anchor raised when parked anyway. Preferably I will be in such a position to open fire on them without them being able to return the favor or on the other end of the island.
2.4 Non crew members may not board my ship without permission and an escort (biggest challenge to establish). - Be willing to forgive mistakes and pirate deaths.
- NEVER fully trust a non crew member, pirates are opportunists at best and if you provide a situation that is to good to be true... they will capitalize on it. Trust your crew and own gut feeling.
Good luck on the seas.
@itskingbertie You are so wrong in so many ways, most people who are against PVE server in most cases want to interact with other players other then pure chaos but the whole point is that it can change.
And your whole theory on pirates are laughable, pirates werent that common in the seas but they were horrible people to innocent and to themselves, they were banned almost from every port.
I wont describe their deeds because the forum wont allow me.
And yes that argument about the name is valid you all keep arguing about something that it should be obvious so we will keep laughing and as i said million times PVE or private servers can be a great thing but ONLY if you wont be able to transfer your progress to your main character the one that we use now.
And the negativity towards that great fair idea proves the true colors of PVE side that all they want is easy mode to grind loot.Personally, I have never been in an alliance that didn't end almost immediately with a betrayal. Based on that, I don't trust anyone and won't join any alliance. I feel that now with most of the PvP players moving over to Arena, it leaves a bunch of d-bags who use alliances to pull you close and then immediately attack. Funny thing is each time, my ship was completely empty so even if they did sink me, they would have gotten nothing from it. I just find it annoying that it is being used as a lure.
@itskingbertie so there would be PvE, PvEvP, Arena and all of that with optional crossplay...NO, please not, the game wouldn't survive a community split like that
@schwammlgott said in Player alliances:
By the way...I don't know if anyone is aware of this...if this is a bug, please don't fix this:
When an alliance member sinks a skellie ship, it counts towards the athena commendation for every ship in the alliance! Even when you never even saw the skellie ship, and/or you are on the other side of the map
@Xultanis-Dragon add this ☝️ to your list
That might be a bug then. That or its been changed since before. I know I've tried doing that and it was always spotty. Dude if that is true I'm going to force everyone into my alliance lol.
Thanks for the heads up man.
@faceyourdemon I want a pve server where it’s hardcore mode and nothing can be transferred! No cross server grinding no reason for anyone but PVE and roleplay on that server just hardcore mode where u have start fresh to join that adventure mode! U keep everything now in the PVPVE mode but I’d u want to play OVE then u start fresh!
