Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers

@pithyrumble

And I currently am doing just that. However, when sailing, with bigger ships especially, it gives you better visibility. So whether you like it or not it is an advantage, as little as it would be in some peoples eyes, still counts as one :)

Just like if you have 60HZ 144HZ and 240hz monitor for FPS games.

So whenever I would play with PVP in mind, you best believe I want all the advantages available, which in this case is the DA sails. Therefore my original question.

@zig-zag-ltu

How often in PvP do you have your sails all the way down? First thing that happens in a naval engagement is sails get partially raised to improve turning ability and whatnot. Who's out there PvPing at full sails?!?

@maximusarael020 said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

@zig-zag-ltu

How often in PvP do you have your sails all the way down? First thing that happens in a naval engagement is sails get partially raised to improve turning ability and whatnot. Who's out there PvPing at full sails?!?

When you need to go full speed. Helps to avoid things in water, gives visibility.

Nobody is bashing people for wearing all black to help them fight at night. My character looks like Xmas tree I dont care. However I do enjoy the views of Sea of Thieves, and you guys make it a bigger deal for asking than it is.

My whole point, I want to buy those sails for the cut. If the cut will be changed or other sails will have it, then I dont want to buy it just yet. Maybe few years later. (Too many captaincy things to save for now)

Also if I am writing nonsense, why all PVPrs use them and nothing else?

DA sails are probably the only sails that actually have an in-game advantage.

Do they tho?

I can get the same effect by buying cheaper sails and curling them. So I think the advantage is you wasting gold on something I can do basically for free.

@burnbacon ofc they do, if you curl any other sail you get more visibility but its also slowing your ship down

@maximusarael020 said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

@zig-zag-ltu

How often in PvP do you have your sails all the way down? First thing that happens in a naval engagement is sails get partially raised to improve turning ability and whatnot. Who's out there PvPing at full sails?!?

Most of the time, yeah full sail or close to it. I don't like messing with sails too much as a solo, and I think "death spiral" is somewhat overrated. As a duo sloop it's a bit different, and also depends on what ship/crew size and skill you are against.

Back to the original question, I don’t think you’re ever going to get an answer to this question. From what I’ve seen the developers never answer questions like this.

Buy the DA sails if you like the style or the utility, you’ll have plenty of gold to buy the Next Big Thing when it comes along. I have them, I like them, I don’t miss the gold.

My hopes is that the DA and other ripped sail cuts become an option you buy and apply.

The advantage it gives is minimal. What advantage do you get from da sails? Literally you see something 2 seconds sooner than stepping off the wheel and going 2 steps down the sloop/galle stairs stairs or tiny bump on the brig. If your playing the game sitting on the wheel while your just going in a strait line, you could probably hop off that wheel and do anything else.

@goldsmen said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

The advantage it gives is minimal. What advantage do you get from da sails? Literally you see something 2 seconds sooner than stepping off the wheel and going 2 steps down the sloop/galle stairs stairs or tiny bump on the brig. If your playing the game sitting on the wheel while your just going in a strait line, you could probably hop off that wheel and do anything else.

I'm yet to see a constructive explanation of why PVP (sweats as they are called here) use them exclusively? I mean I know the answer. I just don't understand why people are arguing against the obvious.

It's obvious the advantage is minimal
Same like dressing up all black
Same like dropping loot and picking up whilst swimming
Same like many things in game and in real life.

Why do you buy football shoes to play football when you can just play it in basketball shoes? The advantage is minimal, if your Ronaldo you can play in flip flops....Thank you for your insights, I appreciate it.....

@sn0kanon The only person who actually contributed to this topic. Thank you for the insight. I guess I will get on an alliance server for them and be done with it.

@zig-zag-ltu said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

@goldsmen said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

The advantage it gives is minimal. What advantage do you get from da sails? Literally you see something 2 seconds sooner than stepping off the wheel and going 2 steps down the sloop/galle stairs stairs or tiny bump on the brig. If your playing the game sitting on the wheel while your just going in a strait line, you could probably hop off that wheel and do anything else.

I'm yet to see a constructive explanation of why PVP (sweats as they are called here) use them exclusively? I mean I know the answer. I just don't understand why people are arguing against the obvious.

It's obvious the advantage is minimal
Same like dressing up all black
Same like dropping loot and picking up whilst swimming
Same like many things in game and in real life.

Why do you buy football shoes to play football when you can just play it in basketball shoes? The advantage is minimal, if your Ronaldo you can play in flip flops....Thank you for your insights, I appreciate it.....

@sn0kanon The only person who actually contributed to this topic. Thank you for the insight. I guess I will get on an alliance server for them and be done with it.

The reason they use them is just that, they are pvp sweats, if you give them a method to increase cannon launch distance by only 3 feet, they will use it, if you give them a trick to eat a single banana a nano second faster, they will use it.

The thing about the stereotypical pvp sweat, they will use every little itty bitty thing to their advantage even if it doesnt even actually advantage them enough to be worth using. You cant explain why pvp sweats think having only 2 seconds faster wheel response time is worth destroying a ships look, they just do it. So... let them do it!

For the record, I’m no sweat (unless you’re talking about the sweat that forms on my index finger from repeatedly mashing “R” to go to the Ferry in a typical PvP encounter).

The sails are handy when you’re helming a brig with a crew that’s more interested in twirling fire batons and swapping out clothes than looking for rocks. And no I’m not gonna tell them to pay more attention, they’re having fun and that’s what we’re here for.

@goldsmen

I honestly do not understand what is the issue with using any advantage possible if your goal is to compete against other people, it is not cheating or exploiting, it is only using all available tools to overcome your competition.

If you leave yourself at a disadvantage on purpose and overcome something against odds, then my respects to you, this is a lot more glorious.

Also intimidation is a very powerful psychological effect and not everyone can see through it.

P.S. Imho, people who use the term 'pvp sweats' - Either do not like PVP and hate people who wont leave them alone. Or they like PVP they just don't want to improve and everyone who is better is a 'sweat' or cheater.

@zig-zag-ltu said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

I'm yet to see a constructive explanation of why PVP (sweats as they are called here) use them exclusively? I mean I know the answer. I just don't understand why people are arguing against the obvious.

It's obvious the advantage is minimal
Same like dressing up all black
Same like dropping loot and picking up whilst swimming
Same like many things in game and in real life.

Why do you buy football shoes to play football when you can just play it in basketball shoes? The advantage is minimal, if your Ronaldo you can play in flip flops....Thank you for your insights, I appreciate it.....

So let's break this down.

First, no, Ronaldo could not play competitively in flip flops. The advantage cleats, and even just actual shoes, give over flip flops while playing soccer is not minimal. Ronaldo would most likely injure himself very quickly if playing a professional match in flip flops. Have you ever played soccer??

"PvP Sweats" use them exclusively for several reasons:

1. There is a perceived advantage. Even if there was no advantage or if it were very minimal, the fact that this idea has infected the player base is the main reason people do it. Same reason people put the Chest of Tears on the very top of their bow or tried playing it shanties. Rumors, hearsay, etc. This can be seen in that even people on sloops use them for PvP, even when it's been stated there's basically no advantage to them on a sloop.

2. They are the "PvP" sails. They mark your intention and perhaps intimidate people because they see your sails and think "Uh oh. PvP Sweat! I'm doomed!" People use them because that's the meta, regardless of actual advantage.

3. They are expensive. People wanted something to spend their millions and millions of gold on, and Rare gave something so that people could really flex their wealth. Pirate Legend title doesn't mean as much as it used to, and having DA sails and other stuff signifies that you are experienced. You've been around a while and know what you are doing. That's the impression anyway.

The fact is, there's no competitive matchmaking or anything, so the people you PvP against are not likely to be your same skill level. They will either be better or worse. In 99 percent of encounters, having the slight advantage of the DA sails will not make the difference in the battle. It is a poor substitute for good crew communication and is something that people who lose encounters think "If only I had the DA sails I would have won!" It's a placebo, and with the DA sails vs a good crew that communicates, the good crew will win every time. Helms-pirates should never be glued to the wheel, those on cannons or bucketing should be communicating what they see.

@maximusarael020

Was not talking about Ronaldo playing in flip flops professionally, was talking about him playing in flip flops against guys like you or me. They have best gear to give them the best competitive advantage. I never played soccer very seriously, only with friends, but I did play basketball. And I could school anyone who is not an athlete or played basketball in flip flops when I did and I was never a pro. So imagine what 'best in the world' could do to you in any sport.

The rest of what you wrote gave me mixed feelings. I agree with the most part, but you made it too simplistic (with all due respect)

1. The comparison to chest of sorrows is not a good one. The DA sails do have a small advantage in visibility as the sails are cut. In real life your ship would be slower, because of it. It is not like some sails with some random holes, the most crucial part when going full speed gives you a lot more visibility. So, shoulda coulda woulda, I'd rather rely on myself than somebody else for hazards. If your crew is a well oiled machine, then obviously you will pick whatever sails look the best for the crew. Where as chest of sorrow myths are just that - myths.

2/3. I would not call them PVP sails as they are not from Reapers Bones faction, they are from Athenas Fortune (just my opinion).
Also, I would not call them meta if they had no advantage. as meta is all about current competitive advantage in every single game.
The more suitable word would be ''prestige'' (like you described, something that costs a lot), but at the same time they have an advantage, so therefore people see them as meta.

Also minimal does not indicate by any means ''If I only had DA sails I would have won''.

But you can certainly say that they might have helped you to see a guy with a keg in the water, or just a floating one. Especially if your crew is busy fighting/boarding. Which indicated that the advantage is situational or as I have originally called it - minimal. I don't think this is a wrong statement.

@zig-zag-ltu

Shrug I guess it doesn't really matter. You aren't looking for opinions on if they give an advantage or not. You're just asking if they will come out with other sails with the same cutout or if they will patch those sails to not have the cutout. And I can't answer that. One thing I will say, in a game that 90 percent of the time or more you are just doing things on your ship and not doing PvP, my suggestion will always be buy what makes you happy, what you think looks good. But that's me, and I'm garbage at PvP so I'll never be looking for anything that gives a "slight" advantage because for me it will never matter.

With how little they update cosmetics in-game, my guess is any new "cutout" sails come in the Emporium, so don't worry about saving gold, just hunt ancient skellies and do Plunder Pass stuff so you're ready when the "New PvP sails" hit the Premium Emporium.

I’d rather the DA sails get patched up tbh. I think introducing a sail like that was a bad idea because that’s obviously what the sweats will use because they believe it gives them an advantage in combat. I’ve sunk enough DA ships to know that’s not the case.

And the argument that they can patch them up because they’re 8 mill gold is dumb. The figurehead and hull are also 8 mill gold and the figurehead has been visually broken since it released. The hull is also nothing special so it wouldn’t be an issue in my eyes.

@ninja-naranja Either patch them up or make it so other sails can have that shape. Introducing a one of item with a quality of life feature is just weird in a cosmetics focused game.

@zig-zag-ltu Here’s my argument.

There’s three types of sailing in this game.
Traveling, Battling, and Fine-Tuning

When Traveling, you want the most speed, meaning your sails should be fully lowered and you should be constantly checking your sails, map, and horizon. You only need to be on the wheel to adjust course. Otherwise, you should be walking around to maintain sails and checking back on the map. While doing these things, you can be looking where you’re going and making sure you’re steering clear.

When Battling, you want to maintain cannon angles and stay in a good firing range for yourself, and a bad one for your enemies. You should have a sail or two raised so your turning isn’t impacted and you don’t fly past your target. With those sails raised you can see where you’re going as well.

When Fine-Tuning, you want to get precision maneuverability, for threading between obstacles or for parking neatly.** You don’t want speed and you don’t want to turn wide for this, so the more sails up, the better.** You should be able to see clear if you’re properly doing this.

If you follow these mindsets, you won’t ever need DA sails, as the only advantage they give you is the ability to be lazily glued to the wheel and make your crew raise/angle sails slower and park less effectively because you won’t need to leave the wheel to help them.

I'm amazed at some of the replies here. DA sails DEFINITELY have an advantage and they are worth every penny.

Putting aside the arguement about whether there's an advantage or not......... I just hate the fact that 9 out of 10 fights i get involved in is against DA sails........ it's boring. I'd like to see the cutout option for every sail, even if it costs another 8.4m - at least then we'd maybe see a bit of variety on the seas.

@animeowl0807 said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

We should be able to use the cutout on all sails, but make it free, please. Pay the 8mil if you like the look of the sails, not for the tactical advantage.

TBH, I don't think tactical advantages should be free or even available at all.

We all use the same weapons, have the same hitboxes, run at the same speed. Our cannons all deal the same damage. There shouldn't be an advantage to any piece of equipment, on your pirate or on your ship.

My vote is for remove the cut out entirely.

@galactic-geek said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

@tenriak said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

@animeowl0807 said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

We should be able to use the cutout on all sails, but make it free, please. Pay the 8mil if you like the look of the sails, not for the tactical advantage.

TBH, I don't think tactical advantages should be free or even available at all.

We all use the same weapons, have the same hitboxes, run at the same speed. Our cannons all deal the same damage. There shouldn't be an advantage to any piece of equipment, on your pirate or on your ship.

My vote is for remove the cut out entirely.

I agree with your vote, but I think that your stance is a bit naive - there are tactical advantages with certain guns and cannon cosmetics, over others, for example. These sails are just following a trend that has already preceded them. They are just the most prominent example.

None of the iron sites are zero'd really. I don't think they are an advantage over a cosmetic that doesn't have them and you can get just as good without them. The visibility from the DA cut out makes the sails feel required. I just don't feel that way about any of the iron sites in the game.

Can you give an example of other cosmetics?

I would say the barrel emote is really good too. But it doesn't feel required.

@tenriak ehh not really, they look like they have an advantage but really they don't. the V cut out is such a minor "advantage" that you won't really notice.

I'll still buy them but it's cause i think the set is neat

Alternative idea would instead be to create "cut" options for sails and allow people to modify sails to fit different cuts so that people can have the DA sail cut if they want to pay DA sail prices for their favorite sail design.

@shady-espresso said in Dark Adventurer sails - Question for developers:

@tenriak ehh not really, they look like they have an advantage but really they don't. the V cut out is such a minor "advantage" that you won't really notice.

I'll still buy them but it's cause i think the set is neat

I wholeheartedly disagree. The extra visibility is noticeable and useful to the point I run them instead of the sails I like.