Dropping Alliance Servers

  • Alright. We all know alliance servers are a thing. We all have our opinions on them, I'm not here to debate that.

    We currently know there is

    • Requiem
    • Wasteland Mafia
    • Ashen Lords
    • Athena's Fortune

    All of these Alliance Servers are alive due to the alliance system in the game, and there is a simple fix to them.

    Suggestion: Lower the number of ships that can be simultaneously allianced to 2.

    With the current boat count of 5, this would only allow at max 4 ships to be allianced at a time and would then force non-allianced boats due to going over the 2 boat limit.

    With all the boats not getting the sell loot, this would overall hurt an alliance server process. As well, this would allow 1 boat on the server that could then be rogue, which one of them want and deter people from counting the use of the servers.

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  • You realize this was a thing before alliances were introduced right? I mean, sure, go for it. We're still gonna play the way we want.

  • I don't think we should punish alliance servers.
    Because i find them once in a while & stole their loot, so it gives me something to look forward when i'm looking for some action.

    And these servers are a PvP goldmine imo.

  • It is not just now that Alliance Servers are a problem, unfortunately many communities that are even partners organize this every day. It's past time for Rare to end this and punish those who do. Alliance Servers are killing the game.

  • My biggest gripes with Alliance Servers is:

    A) It hurts the economy of the game and reverses the loot-circle.

    B) Tend to be incredibly toxic. Behaviours such as bullying ships to leave and horrific racial slurs seems to be very common. Plus, they can and will mass report someone should they do something that goes against the Alliance Server ideology.

    That being said, organic ones are perfectly fine. I’ve never encountered nor been a part of one, but I hope I eventually will.
    Still not enough of an issue though for Rare to do anything about them.

  • Imo people often approach alliance server topics from a more personal and punishment focused approach than it needs to be or should be.

    Whatever people do with coordination and cooperation is their business imo they are simply using a feature that has never and will never make sense in this environment as long as the feature is about cheese rather than creating interesting scenarios with useful tools for creativity.

    The reward is a contradiction to everything else that has been balanced in the game and it comes at a severe cost to organic play because organic players are the ones that pay the price for the cheesing that alliance servers do. Gold related things aren't truly balanced based on the organic experience a lot of the time they are "balanced" based on what alliance servers are doing with their cheesing tactics.

    They killed off their own fresh content of commodities by over correcting based on what alliance servers were doing while never improving it after the over correction so it's pointless and wasted content for organic players that are efficient.

    The contradictions within the design and inconsistent messaging are the issue, not the people that play with the toy they were given.

    People aren't misusing or abusing the feature as it's literally designed to be nothing but a cheese tool and that's not really them doing anything wrong with the feature itself.

    The same approach alliance servers use is what server hopping pvpers do. Low risk/high reward. It's just a different flavor of cheese, both are enabled through features.

    A large majority of the alliances that lean towards wholesome happen on gold and glory/community day. Could easily get rid of the gold cheese as a day to day feature and just implement during the special days and wouldn't lose most of organic alliances at all. Then add creativity based and scenario building options as day to day alliance features

  • Do these alliances servers bother or mess with your game? No? Then why care?

    Or are you upset they won’t let you join so you want to have them removed.

  • @targasbr How are alliance servers ruining the game? Alliance servers is what made me stay. One Ship runs Athena, another one runs Gold Hoarders, Merchant, Order of Souls and another runs Reapers. We do world events together split rewards between faction. Like Gold Hoarder gets chests and trinkets, merchants get crates, oos get skulls, athena gets athena loot, reapers gets gems and reaper stuff. Socialize with others, have fun. Then on other days we are all reapers and pvp everyone in the alliance lol. Best part of alliance servers…no toxic players. Toxic players are what ruins the game.

  • @burnbacon simple, he wants prey that's not interested in fighting back

  • @requiem0fwar said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @targasbr How are alliance servers ruining the game? Alliance servers is what made me stay. One Ship runs Athena, another one runs Gold Hoarders, Merchant, Order of Souls and another runs Reapers. We do world events together split rewards between faction. Like Gold Hoarder gets chests and trinkets, merchants get crates, oos get skulls, athena gets athena loot, reapers gets gems and reaper stuff. Socialize with others, have fun. Then on other days we are all reapers and pvp everyone in the alliance lol. Best part of alliance servers…no toxic players. Toxic players are what ruins the game.

    For each alliance server there is one or more less common servers for people to play the game the way it was created.
    Farming on an alliance server just evades the risk/reward, making beginners have a lot more money than they can spend, so this inflates the price of items for everyone.
    Server Alliances also end up with several events where players should interact, such as the recent case of Reaper's vs Golden Sands, where it was practically impossible to see a player doing one of these missions to be able to interact.
    Alliance servers are the place with the most toxicity, try someday to attack any of their ships and you will see that racism is the most basic offense.

  • I like this idea because alliances might finally be used to making a PvP alliance, if 2 alliance ships crush a 3rd ship, that ship might form it's own alliance and retaliate.

  • @burnbacon said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    Do these alliances servers bother or mess with your game? No? Then why care?

    Or are you upset they won’t let you join so you want to have them removed.

    The same type of attitude and logic could then be applied to people wanting single ship servers/experiences. Would that bother you or mess with your game? No? Then why not let them do it?

    It's the precise reason why offline/solo/single crew servers shouldn't be a thing that alliance servers shouldn't. What compounds the alliance server issue is the extra magical 250% bonus flying at the top of each mast for the same amount of loot.

  • @burnbacon said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    Do these alliances servers bother or mess with your game? No? Then why care?

    Or are you upset they won’t let you join so you want to have them removed.

    Actually they do mess with my game. They've fostered a running mentality and a 1 death scuttle mind set. Sloops, Brigs, Galleons all the same.

    Alliance Servers have done nothing but create entitled players that can't and won't fight. Overall, it makes for a boring evening when each boat you pull up on insta scuttles.

  • @raesed-digital yeah, couldn't have anything to do with shallow fighting mechanics that got boring after the first month

  • @burnbacon said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    Do these alliances servers bother or mess with your game? No? Then why care?

    During set-up they mess up servers they don't land on with 4 of their co-setup. Imagine being on a server where during 2 minutes two or more of these enter (and quickly leave via alt-f4) your server. You might appreciate it when you want to be left alone, but for everybody else this lessens the chance of encountering a ship they want to fight or encountering one where they want to be friendly with.

    They have an effect on Emissary - they probably get rank1 in each ledger after 1 play session, while in an Adventure server it may take most people 2 sessions without getting sunk to get there. For every 1000 people playing in alliance servers, there are thus about 1000 who are deprived of the rewards for getting to rank 1 and another 1000 who are deprived of the rewards for getting rank 2.

    Or are you upset they won’t let you join so you want to have them removed.

    That's a lame accuse.

  • Also on top of hurting the spirit of the game and all, Requiem is one that completely goes against TOS with "paid slots for priority access" on their servers. I'm surprised this hasn't been dealt with sooner.

  • @gallerine5582 said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    Also on top of hurting the spirit of the game and all, Requiem is one that completely goes against TOS with "paid slots for priority access" on their servers. I'm surprised this hasn't been dealt with sooner.

    It is also the largest alliance server community, likely because rather than waiting in line like everyone else, you can pay and have a chance at getting in much sooner to bot farm that gold/rep.

  • Alliance servers are the result of tools not rules. If we start adding rules, like size limits, that would go against the ethos of the game. It's stupid, but that's the reason why the system will never change, unless the ethos changes.

  • I'm okay with nerfing the flag because I think alliance loot should be split evenly, 50/50 (or between however many ships), not 100/50-per ship.

    But this won't stop alliance servers from spiking and farming. If anything, they'll just have less of an impact on ledgers.

    If Rare wants to prevent alliance cheese, they'd have to nip it at spiking. Add some RNG/arbitrary delay (few seconds) after hitting "set sail," so that even if everyone presses it at the same time, they aren't connecting all at once.

    The issue I have with this is that it would kill smaller non-partnered communities, more than the removal of Arena did. The same methods used to create cheese servers are used to create TDMs, naval fights, races and other mini-games/competitions that have no detrimental effect on the environment, and don't devalue organic play.

    So until Rare gives us private servers, removing the ability to spike would do more harm than good imo.

  • @theblackbellamy said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    I'm okay with nerfing the flag because I think alliance loot should be split evenly, 50/50 (or between however many ships), not 100/50-per ship.

    But this won't stop alliance servers from spiking and farming. If anything, they'll just have less of an impact on ledgers.

    If Rare wants to prevent alliance cheese, they'd have to nip it at spiking. Add some RNG/arbitrary delay (few seconds) after hitting "set sail," so that even if everyone presses it at the same time, they aren't connecting all at once.

    The issue I have with this is that it would kill smaller non-partnered communities, more than the removal of Arena did. The same mechanics used to create cheese servers are used to create TDMs, naval fights, races and other mini-games/competitions that have no detrimental effect on the environment, and don't devalue organic play.

    So until Rare gives us private servers, removing the ability to spike would do more harm than good imo.

    Time to finish ironing those out. I have seen partners using them and they seem fine and even work with six ships currently (way better than regular servers handle 5 right now)

    Sure they can add functionality later if they want but I think they serve a myriad of players right now as-is.

  • They should do this when they do a "war" again. They really ruined Lost Sands. Sure, I think Merrick would still win without them but they remove the whole purpose of the so called "war".

  • @like-500-ninjas, Dropping Alliance Servers içinde yazdı:

    @targasbr said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    It is not just now that Alliance Servers are a problem, unfortunately many communities that are even partners organize this every day. It's past time for Rare to end this and punish those who do. Alliance Servers are killing the game.

    How???? HOW is that possible?

    Can you not log into the game and play Adventure? Oh wait...you can.

    How does it PERSONALLY affect you? What damage does it PERSONALLY do to you? Or can you just not stand it that someone else in this game may:

    *Have more gold than you
    *Be playing how THEY want and not how YOU want
    *Not want you ruining their experience with forced PVP

    Saying "Alliance servers are ruining the game" has got to be the dumbest thing someone could say. Nobody is being harassed, like the Reapers do on EVERY server to everyone, and they literally have no effect on others playing the game.

    I've never played on an Alliance server. I log in, play my solo sloop session, and log out. Not once, at any point since this game launched, have I sat there and said, "You know....if those Alliance servers didn't exist I would be having so much more fun. They are going to kill this game." Never. But I have definitely felt that way about Reapers since day 1, and that's exactly what they've done.

    "Killing the game". Seriously? Absolutely not.

    Them ruining Lost Sands is a great example. Sure, Merrcik proably would still win without them but they remove the whole purpose of the so called "war".

    They fill the emisarry ledgers. Not a big problem but still annoying.

    They removed FOTD battles from the game. People only do FOTD in those servers because they dont want people attacking them. FOTD was put in for crews to fight over them. Not for people to grind them without even checking the horizon and selling the loot at gold rush.

    Risk VS reward system is out of the window because of these servers. We dont have any good wars with them existing too.

  • I can see arguments on the both sides of this debate, yet what counts is only one thing and I invite you to think on this: Are these alliance servers against the rules? If yes which rules do they violate and if no, why even bother?

    In the end you can get the same result with a normal LFG, you can invite a group of people and start an alliance server in max 30 mins. Should we be done with LFGs, alliance system and game invites in one breath?

    I don't think so!

  • One of the group is called Ashen lords?
    That name kinda suck, anyway
    what you suggesting won’t stop or do anything to restore true balance since they have existed long before Alliances flag was added but obviously it would make it harder to earn a lot of gold which all I care about mostly.

    Let the Devs decide what to do with them.

  • @like-500-ninjas, Dropping Alliance Servers içinde yazdı:

    @thorumsu said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @like-500-ninjas, Dropping Alliance Servers içinde yazdı:

    @targasbr said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    It is not just now that Alliance Servers are a problem, unfortunately many communities that are even partners organize this every day. It's past time for Rare to end this and punish those who do. Alliance Servers are killing the game.

    How???? HOW is that possible?

    Can you not log into the game and play Adventure? Oh wait...you can.

    How does it PERSONALLY affect you? What damage does it PERSONALLY do to you? Or can you just not stand it that someone else in this game may:

    *Have more gold than you
    *Be playing how THEY want and not how YOU want
    *Not want you ruining their experience with forced PVP

    Saying "Alliance servers are ruining the game" has got to be the dumbest thing someone could say. Nobody is being harassed, like the Reapers do on EVERY server to everyone, and they literally have no effect on others playing the game.

    I've never played on an Alliance server. I log in, play my solo sloop session, and log out. Not once, at any point since this game launched, have I sat there and said, "You know....if those Alliance servers didn't exist I would be having so much more fun. They are going to kill this game." Never. But I have definitely felt that way about Reapers since day 1, and that's exactly what they've done.

    "Killing the game". Seriously? Absolutely not.

    Them ruining Lost Sands is a great example. Sure, Merrcik proably would still win without them but they remove the whole purpose of the so called "war".

    They fill the emisarry ledgers. Not a big problem but still annoying.

    They removed FOTD battles from the game. People only do FOTD in those servers because they dont want people attacking them.

    Risk VS reward system is out of the window because of these servers. We dont have any good wars with them existing too.

    Some people don't want to fight. I also don't. But just as there are Alliance servers, I've seen servers with nothing but grade 5 Reapers working together. Not sure how this is an issue.

    I still don't see the problem. Nobody wants to pour work into FOTD just to have some lazy person take their loot at the end. That, I believe, is where you see the biggest conflict of opinions. Some say, "That's just pirate!" while others say, "That's griefing".

    IMO, it is definitely griefing as you are stealing someone's time and effort. Not the popular opinion here, obviously, because "pirate game". But obviously the popular mindset overall as over 30 million unique people have played the game, but only 200k-ish are left playing online at any given time.

    A deaf ear has been given to separate servers. Thus, the community has solved it on their own. Disable Alliance servers and you'll see all those players leave. That exodus could be fatal to the game, and I think Rare knows that as well.

    Better decisions on Rare's part could have prevented the need for Alliance servers altogether.

    So you are saying that stealing a fort that was designed to be fought over is griefing and lazy???

    How? If they were not designed to be fought for, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE A GIANT CLOUD

    Ahem. Also, Dont get this topic of course and to private servers to anchor it please.

  • People just can't live well without trying to ruin the game for someone else huh?

  • @like-500-ninjas there is zero evidence that the 75k players (numbers just from the groups mentioned in the OP) would just leave the game if the ability to lock down whole servers was patched.

  • @kommodoreyenser

    Are you Seriously arguing with someone who thinks stealing is actually griefing? You wont get any result from it.

  • @thorumsu said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @kommodoreyenser

    Are you Seriously arguing with someone who thinks stealing is actually griefing? You wont get any result from it.

    Lol, learned not to do that with this person several threads ago. This is a statement. Just want to see the evidence they have seen that the rest of the community has yet to learn about.

  • @raesed-digital said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    Actually they do mess with my game. They've fostered a running mentality and a 1 death scuttle mind set. Sloops, Brigs, Galleons all the same.

    Alliance Servers have done nothing but create entitled players that can't and won't fight. Overall, it makes for a boring evening when each boat you pull up on insta scuttles.

    So you want to take down alliance servers so that even more players who are uninterested in PvP will fill regular servers? Where's the logic in that?

    @targasbr said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    It is not just now that Alliance Servers are a problem, unfortunately many communities that are even partners organize this every day. It's past time for Rare to end this and punish those who do. Alliance Servers are killing the game.

    They're not killing the game for me. I'm still able to play adventure mode and complete voyages, I'm still earning the same amount of money, I'm still getting commendations. Nothing changed for me. Maybe it's only your problem, deal with it on your own without ruining the game for other people.

  • @like-500-ninjas said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @targasbr said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    It is not just now that Alliance Servers are a problem, unfortunately many communities that are even partners organize this every day. It's past time for Rare to end this and punish those who do. Alliance Servers are killing the game.

    How???? HOW is that possible?

    Can you not log into the game and play Adventure? Oh wait...you can.

    Those who play in Server Alliances can too, but unfortunately they bypass the game's matchmaking system to "farm in peace".

    How does it PERSONALLY affect you? What damage does it PERSONALLY do to you? Or can you just not stand it that someone else in this game may:

    *Have more gold than you

    When people have more money than they can spend it affects the game's economy, thus affecting everyone in the game. Have you ever thought about why the Dark Adventures set cost almost 80 million and the Emissary Ledgers are a total mess?

    *Be playing how THEY want and not how YOU want

    They don't play the way the game design proposes, which consequently isn't the way RARE created things to be. So, it's not the way I want it, but the way the COMPANY THAT DEVELOPED THE GAME WANTS.

    *Not want you ruining their experience with forced PVP

    PvP is not forced, it's part of the game. If the person doesn't want the full gaming experience then this might not be the ideal game for the person.

    Saying "Alliance servers are ruining the game" has got to be the dumbest thing someone could say. Nobody is being harassed, like the Reapers do on EVERY server to everyone, and they literally have no effect on others playing the game.

    Saying that "nobody is being harassed" is a myth. Alliance Servers are one of the reasons the game is so empty. Alliance Servers make players achieve a lot more in a lot less time, causing many to rush everything and leave the game prematurely. Everything in the game is thought to take time to do, cheating that kills the game more and more each day.

    I've never played on an Alliance server. I log in, play my solo sloop session, and log out. Not once, at any point since this game launched, have I sat there and said, "You know....if those Alliance servers didn't exist I would be having so much more fun. They are going to kill this game." Never. But I have definitely felt that way about Reapers since day 1, and that's exactly what they've done.

    If you've never played on an Alliance Server I don't think you're fit to talk about it. Before giving your opinion, play in one, and not only that, try to attack any boat of one of these alliances. You will see that these servers are the hotbed of racism, homophobia, etc. And the funniest thing, they do it precisely because "we're not playing the way they want". Ironic.

    "Killing the game". Seriously? Absolutely not.

    Well, I'm based on facts, you're based on personal opinions. I suggest researching a little more.

  • @raesed-digital said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @burnbacon said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    Do these alliances servers bother or mess with your game? No? Then why care?

    Or are you upset they won’t let you join so you want to have them removed.

    Actually they do mess with my game. They've fostered a running mentality and a 1 death scuttle mind set. Sloops, Brigs, Galleons all the same.

    Alliance Servers have done nothing but create entitled players that can't and won't fight. Overall, it makes for a boring evening when each boat you pull up on insta scuttles.

    That was happening without server Alliances because guess what? Some people just really don't want to fight. Taking away alliance servers is not going to magically make everyone want to fight you. You'd see a lot more of the behavior you don't like because they wouldn't all be tucked away in a corner...

  • @necronikolai13 said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @raesed-digital yeah, couldn't have anything to do with shallow fighting mechanics that got boring after the first month

    Shallow? You are wholly ignorant to how deep that rabbit hole actually goes.

  • @pithyrumble said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @raesed-digital said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    @burnbacon said in Dropping Alliance Servers:

    Do these alliances servers bother or mess with your game? No? Then why care?

    Or are you upset they won’t let you join so you want to have them removed.

    Actually they do mess with my game. They've fostered a running mentality and a 1 death scuttle mind set. Sloops, Brigs, Galleons all the same.

    Alliance Servers have done nothing but create entitled players that can't and won't fight. Overall, it makes for a boring evening when each boat you pull up on insta scuttles.

    That was happening without server Alliances because guess what? Some people just really don't want to fight. Taking away alliance servers is not going to magically make everyone want to fight you. You'd see a lot more of the behavior you don't like because they wouldn't all be tucked away in a corner...

    All of this, well said. I get how the concept of Alliance Servers dont sit well with the PvEvPers who play the game as intended.... but they need to realise that without AS the vast majority of those players probably wouldnt be playing anyway, meaning they have almost no impact on our experience, beyond providing the opportunity to net a huge haul of loot should we stumble into one by mistake....

  • I think a better adjustment is where you get a max of 50% extra from your alliance meaning if there is 2 ships in an alliance then they get 50% of each others profit, if there are 3 then they get 25% of each otherrs profit, 4 is 16.666% and 5 is 12.5% that way adding more people to an alliance does not imcrease profits by 50% for every ship

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