SoT's Player Support is AWFUL

  • CityKitty4238
    Castaway

    Hey everyone,
    I just wanted to drop by to share my story as of late with my experience with SoT's / Rare's player support system.

    To make a long story short, I got a 2 week enforcement action after an argument with another pirate on Xbox chat. It was well deserved, I admit it, so I patiently waited the 2 week period to end so I could get back in the seas with my crew.

    2 weeks pass and my enforcement action is lifted from xbox/microsoft. So I attempt to log in SoT and I get the redbeard error message. I didn't understand. I've done nothing in game to deserve a soft-ban, let alone a perma-ban. I immediately contact SoT support through their support system and let them know that I still cannot play after my xbox ban has been lifted. They reply saying I've been permanently banned from SoT as a result of breaking the Pirate Code of Conduct. As I have not done something in game to receive a penalty over, and as my xbox suspension for that offense is already lifted, I asked them when and where did I break their Code of Conduct. They refuse to give me a straight response, and just say that "their decision is final" and the reason for the ban is the comment that got me the xbox suspension. Again, this was something that happened fully in Xbox, and not in SoT. I created another ticket or two trying to get an agent that would actually give me some real answers, as I have over 1700 hours in this game, and loads of content that I cannot retrieve anymore via a new account. Such as LSD and old season passes. They now threaten that all new tickets will go unanswered and marked "resolved" and that they will suspend me from the support site if I continue to question them.

    I'm really fed up with how awful their player support system is. I've contacted xbox and microsoft and both have ensured me that a suspension on xbox CANNOT and SHOULD NOT leak into in-game unless there was a separate offense made in game as well - which there was none, or at least, if I did something wrong, I would like to see some proof of it as I am genuinly confused how I can lose my account that I've been playing since 2019 without even as much as a warning.
    If you have managed to read through my story, and have any suggestions on what other actions I can take to get some real answers, I would really appreciate this as I'm downright upset with how Rare treat's their player base.

    Thanks for listening,
    CPT Skalywags

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  • SweetSandMan
    Commander
    Insider

    I mean I'm not sure what was said, but I can only assume that what was said was a result of something that happened in Sea of Thieves...right? It's not like you were playing COD, messaged someone, and Rare banned you...right?

    Also...inB4lock

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    I sympathize as I have also likewise been banned from Support (due to an alleged Insider NDA violation on these here forums, where they wouldn't explain to me which post it was, when I don't recall ever making such a post), though luckily I have not yet been banned from SoT itself. I remember that message all too well too. The very idea that they say that their decision is final and "resolved" when they leave the individual in question with questions and without direct answers is baffling. Very automated and unfriendly, IMO - and that is precisely what a Support should not be...

    There is a difference between Support and Enforcement, and Rare needs to learn that. They have to. One helps; the other punishes. An individual is seeking help in understanding and gets punished instead? That is just all sorts of wrong.

    Enforcement, if needed, needs to be clear in EXACTLY why it's happening, and SHOW the accused the evidence levied against them. Otherwise, what you get is an unfair system where the alleged violator gets absolutely no recourse. It's a zero-tolerance and closed system, and those are, quite simply, the worst.

  • CityKitty4238
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek Thank you for your understanding. 100% getting what I'm trying to say here. I just wish they would communicate better. And maybe explain what action I took to deserve a straight up permanent ban when in xbox it was only 2 weeks. At least I would have liked a warning? On top of that, Microsoft is telling me that an xbox ban cannot lead into any in-game bans.

  • CityKitty4238
    Castaway

    @sweetsandman Ofc it was Sea of Thieves related. So I can't talk / argue with someone on facebook over Sea of Thieves because Big Brother is Watching?

  • CityKitty4238
    Castaway

    On top of all this, I never got an email or notification from SoT even stating I have been red-bearded. I assume this is because I never broke the Pirate Code that I agreed to when I purchased the game.

  • SweetSandMan
    Commander
    Insider

    @citykitty4238 said in SoT's Player Support is AWFUL:

    @sweetsandman Ofc it was Sea of Thieves related. So I can't talk / argue with someone on facebook over Sea of Thieves because Big Brother is Watching?

    There's a difference between talking about/debating Sea of Thieves versus taking an in-game quarrel to a different platform.

    The latter is definitely a no-no. Again, not sure what you said and don't care what was said, but if it was bad enough to get you 2 weeks on Xbox AND a SOT redbeard, I struggle to sympathize. Do I think permabans for first time offenses (assuming this was a 1st time) are harsh? Yeah...but I don't make the rules.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Champion
    Insider

    @citykitty4238 said in SoT's Player Support is AWFUL:

    @sweetsandman Ofc it was Sea of Thieves related. So I can't talk / argue with someone on facebook over Sea of Thieves because Big Brother is Watching?

    Perhaps it was a violation of article 3:

    Disputes Are Settled upon the Waves: None shall quarrel or overly dissent against another crew, but let every engagement be settled by sword, pistol and good seamanship

  • CityKitty4238
    Castaway

    @sweetsandman @Lem0n-Curry The player continued insulting me via xbox, rather then me taking the conversation to a different platform.

    It was also my first offense in SoT since I started to play in 2019. Again, I'm not saying I didn't deserve the xbox ban. I would have even taken a 2 week SoT ban. And that's saying alot since Microsoft/Xbox agrees that it should not have leaked into in-game. I do have screenshots of which I've already sent to Player Support of Microsoft's response.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Champion
    Insider

    @citykitty4238 said in SoT's Player Support is AWFUL:

    @sweetsandman @Lem0n-Curry The player continued insulting me via xbox, rather then me taking the conversation to a different platform.

    Report and/or ignore; someone insulting you might be someone who is trying to trigger you into worse (or bannable) insults. Them inulting you is not an excuse to throw insults back.

    It was also my first offense in SoT since I started to play in 2019.

    It's harsh, don't get me wrong: I understand that.
    But nowhere (AFAIK) it is stated that there should be warnings first or lesser sentences handed out. I guess some offenses are bad enough to warrant a direct and permanent ban.

    Them not informing you on the ban and what it's for is bad form on their side and they definitely should change that policy.

  • SweetSandMan
    Commander
    Insider

    @citykitty4238 Again, not knowing the details, do I think the punishment is harsh? Yeah. I do.

    But, believe it or not, none of us forum-goers can unban you. On top of that, making a complaint post on the forums talking about how you're fed up with support is most certainly not going to put your account in a better light.

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    Hey ! Regardless of the cause of your ban, I can sympathise with your sentiment.

    Imo what happened is that the person you've been talking to reported you to both Microsoft and Rare and they both took different punishments (despite both being owned by microsoft, they are different companies).

    You wouldn't be banned by Rare if the argument took place on any other platform but they do indeed ban players for offenses performed through Xbox chat app. And when Rare ban players (as their terms of use allow them to do at will), they never inform the player.

    Probably what happened.

  • MaximusArael020
    Master
    Insider

    Yeah, I'm with @grog-minto here.

    You didn't get banned from Sea of Thieves because of your ban from Xbox. So when Microsoft says that bans/suspensions from Xbox Live or whatever shouldn't leak into the game, that is correct. If you got banned/suspended from Xbox Live for something you did in Call of Duty, Bioware shouldn't ban you from playing Dragon Age or whatever. However because it was Sea of Thieves related, and it was directly opposed to Rare's code of conduct specific to Sea of Thieves ("All conflicts should be settled on the waves", meaning in-game and never using out-of-game communication or platforms to harass players), that player reported you to Rare and you got a separate ban from Sea of Thieves.

    Additional communication would of course be nice from any company taking these kinds of punitive actions. However, in this case it seems Rare does have full right to have banned you from the game for specifically violating their terms of service.

    Additional transparency is always appreciated in situations like this, however if you don't engage in activity that, by your admission, was worthy of enforceable action, it is really a non-issue. Reminds me of my four-year-old when I tell her not to do something and she does it anyway and I say she can't have ice cream. "Can I earn it back?" No, I specifically told you not to do something and you did it seconds later knowing full well it was something you were told not to. Sometimes there aren't "warnings" or "second chances". Do it right the first time and there's no issue.

    In the case of @galactic-geek, it would nice if they were a lot more transparent about what happened. But in the OP's case, they know exactly what they did.

  • WolfManbush
    Lord

    The lack of transparency is always unfortunate

    I dunno the details but what I have observed with people is that they are creatures of habit even if they genuinely don't fully see it themselves.

    I dunno what was said but if it was rough it probably wasn't the first time. Maybe you didn't think there was evidence out there, maybe you didn't fully remember something you said. People that have a certain way of talking tend to do it repeatedly.

    Not saying a perma-ban and lack of transparency is how I would have handled it but you do acknowledge some rough communication, maybe there was more of it out there.

    Writing something and sending it takes a bit more thought and focus than just reacting vocally, if you'll write it and send it while knowing there is going to be a record of it there is a pretty darn good chance it's been said vocally/on a mic quite a bit in some form.

  • MaximusArael020
    Master
    Insider

    @galactic-geek said in SoT's Player Support is AWFUL:

    Enforcement, if needed, needs to be clear in EXACTLY why it's happening, and SHOW the accused the evidence levied against them. Otherwise, what you get is an unfair system where the alleged violator gets absolutely no recourse. It's a zero-tolerance and closed system, and those are, quite simply, the worst.

    I agree transparency is best, and anyone receiving punishment, especially any kind of permanent ban, should receive notification as to what they did to incur such a punishment. I think disclosing what kind of evidence they have would be beneficial, however showing exactly the evidence they have would in many cases reveal the accuser and potentially invite retaliation. 99% of times I'm sure it would be fine, but it only takes that 1% to be extremely upset about losing access to a game they have thousands of hours in and take their retaliation too far into violent territory.

    But I think on everything regarding transparency and communication with people who are receiving bans/suspensions I agree with you.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Captain
    Insider

    The thing is. When someone is claiming innocence and complaining about unfair punishment, normally I would expect a straight forward, honest story with facts and leave up to the rest or community to decide if we should offer our "thoughts and prayers" to you. However your whole explanation of a permanent ban - argument with a player. If I had to guess you used many "no no words" and here you put your whole capability of decent english to make it seem Rare was unjust and unfair...I might be wrong tho and if I am I do apologise

  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    As your post goes against the Forum Rules, it will be locked.

    Discussing Disciplinary Actions

    Discussion of disciplinary actions taken against individual players is not permitted on the Forums. Topics and posts with this content will be locked, deleted and the users involved warned. Ignoring the warning will result in a temporary ban from the Forums and a final warning. If the action continues, a permanent ban from the Forums will be issued.

    If the person involved wants more information or to appeal then they would need to contact Support as it is not something that can be discussed on the Forums.

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