Attacking Allies

  • I think there should be repercussions for attacking allies. Maybe not for just attacking (a friendly broadside to the hull never hurt anyone), but definitely for killing/sinking.
    this game could be so much better if people were disincentivized from acting dickish.
    How are we supposed to create great interactions between us players if we never can trust anyone?
    If there are no consequences for betrayal or just generally for behaving like a pos that only benefits the worst among us.

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  • Risk is a part of the game and the feature

    I personally abstain from betrayal and dishonesty in gameplay but it's within the freedom of people to make those personal decisions for themselves

  • @wolfmanbush
    personal freedom has no meaning if there are no consequences for your actions.

  • @gemmakat said in Attacking Allies:

    @wolfmanbush
    personal freedom has no meaning if there are no consequences for your actions.

    Betrayal and the chaos of that situation isn't for everyone but it's a strategy just as stealth is and just as ambushing is,

    People are aware that there is a risk which is the important part, as long as people are aware that there are no obligations with alliances they are choosing to take the risk for the reward.

  • An alliance betrayal could be considered a great interaction. We're pirates!

  • I think there should be repercussions for attacking allies.

    How do you know they were allies to begin with? Because they joined that alliance under a flag? Silly.
    Everyone knows that just a cover up for "Pirates" to sneak aboard your ship and steal from under your nose...

    Sounds like Spy vs Spy, since you can do the same thing yourself.

    this game could be so much better if people were disincentivized from acting dickish.

    You mean acting like Pirates? Or any form of Espionage.

    If there are no consequences for betrayal

    If you fail, you lost connection to that group.

  • @gemmakat said in Attacking Allies:

    @wolfmanbush
    personal freedom has no meaning if there are no consequences for your actions.

    There are plenty of consequences.

    1. You made an enemy who's more angry at you than usual
    2. You lost an ally
    3. You lost your chance at gaining more shared profit
  • Guy probably got all his achievements and commendations from alliance servers.

    I love how differ Mind sets in this game are.
    If i see an alliance i am like a wolf frothing from the mouth and will stop whatever i am doing to either sink and destroy them or sink and destroy them as part of the alliance.

    Whatever floats your boats or sinks your ship.

  • @hadtodoit said in Attacking Allies:

    Guy probably got all his achievements and commendations from alliance servers.

    I love how differ Mind sets in this game are.
    If i see an alliance i am like a wolf frothing from the mouth and will stop whatever i am doing to either sink and destroy them or sink and destroy them as part of the alliance.

    Whatever floats your boats or sinks your ship.

    Being dishonest in a situation where someone may not be experienced enough or even old enough to fully understand the arrangement is more personal than other strats for thievery.

    It's understandable that some take issue with it.

    It might not be personal to the one engaging in the betrayal but it's reasonable that the people on the other end of that interaction view it as personal.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Attacking Allies:

    @hadtodoit said in Attacking Allies:

    Guy probably got all his achievements and commendations from alliance servers.

    I love how differ Mind sets in this game are.
    If i see an alliance i am like a wolf frothing from the mouth and will stop whatever i am doing to either sink and destroy them or sink and destroy them as part of the alliance.

    Whatever floats your boats or sinks your ship.

    Being dishonest in a situation where someone may not be experienced enough or even old enough to fully understand the arrangement is more personal than other strats for thievery.

    It's understandable that some take issue with it.

    It might not be personal to the one engaging in the betrayal but it's reasonable that the people on the other end of that interaction view it as personal.

    Honesty in a pirate game would be your first mistake. The second would be taking it personal in a video game are we a very young age?

    Tools not rules my friend.

    Whatever floats your boat or sinks your ship.

  • @hadtodoit said in Attacking Allies:

    Honesty in a pirate game would be your first mistake. The second would be taking it personal in a video game are we a very young age?

    Tools not rules my friend.

    Whatever floats your boat or sinks your ship.

    There is self preservation within reading a room

    organic activity is not high, retention is not strong

    people get discouraged and quit often

    we get to do what we want but everyone benefits by looking at a situation from the view of "I can do this, but in this specific situation is it worth it?"

    There will be situations where the damage is minimal as is the sacrifice of another's experience
    and there are situations where that moment of self-gratification leads to someone abandoning the game and within that all of the activity they could have created here.

    no requirement or obligation to consider that or to hesitate but there is self preservation within it

    The betrayal and the dishonesty have a far more significant impact on random organic alliances than they do on coordinated operations.

  • A great interaction can come from a bad situation, getting betrayed, tho not a situation of people being friendly, can be a great interaction if done creatively. This game is designed with the intent of being able to approach anyone any way you see fit, be it friendly, as an enemy, to betray, or just to meme.

    When rare dropped alliances, they designed it with betrayal as an intended part, and even warned people not to be too trusting. The consequence for betrayal is losing out on an ally and possibly still losing. If your too trusting thats not on the person who betrayed you.

  • @gemmakat said in Attacking Allies:

    How are we supposed to create great interactions between us players if we never can trust anyone?

    Not being able to ever fully trust anyone, to me, is the single most important feature the game has to make it all feel like a pirate world.

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  • @hadtodoit sorry, took me a while to even figure out what you were talking about with alliance servers since i wasn't familiar with that term or concept.
    i have been in an alliance 3 to 5 times by now and every time it started organically, i don't use discord or whatever to organise.
    almost all of my progress towards achievements/commendations was done solo slooping and i'm only in a crew like every other week for a few hours.

    i only remember 3 occasions of me being in an alliance, but i'm sure i have been in an alliance before those three times once or twice.

    one time i was invited by a crew who were already in an alliance with two other ships, we all went to do our voyages for an hour and that was that.

    another time i was solo slooping and saw a reaper galleon fighting the ghost fleet. was actually doing tall tales at the time but thought i'd go over ask if they needed assistance, i then helped them clear the fleet.
    out of experience i was kind of expecting they would turn on me after the ghost fleet was done and was ready to hit it, but they actually created an alliance with me. we chatted a bit and then i drove off to complete my tall tale and they sold the loot from the ghost fleet before quitting the alliance, which ... fair given that i too sunk some ghost ships, but as i was doing tall tales wasn't contributing anymore.

    the last time and which grinds my gears was me again solo slooping, just doing voyages and general treasure hunting. i just cleared a shipwreck when i saw a brig approaching. i hailed them, but also made preparations to quickly escape if they would start hostilities or if they just came to close without replying, but they did, asked how i was and as i had the LFA flag up they joined up with me. since we were in communication and they created an alliance with me, i dropped my guard and thought it'd be nice to have a friendly chat, they parked their ship next to mine and then proceeded to blast it into smithereens. 3v1 and breaking an alliance. i have no respect for people like that.

    i don't play this game for the PvP, i don't care for that, but i am okay with it being a part of the game and i am okay with being sunk generally. what i don't appreciate is backhanded behaviour like what i described above (can also live without the name-calling and usage of slurs which is unfortunately pretty common, especially among the types of players who engage in backhanded acts).

    anyways, sea of thieves is not just about PvP, it combines all sorts of multiplayer facets. thing is actions like those of the brig crew only sow distrust among the players and without trust communities generally don't fare so well in the long run. i don't say "make it impossible", but i say "find ways to disincentivize them".

    and no, me being angry at them isn't a meaningful consequence, neither is them missing out on shared loot if they weren't even looking for that in the first place.

    i really liked those reaper guys, pretty sure if we had met some time later they would have tried to sink me and that could have led to an exciting chase, but stuff like that are what i would call wholesome community interactions.
    PvP is fine, but i can honestly say that for the vast majority of times that my ship was sunk by other players it was through instances like above or while docked at an outpost (not being chased there and already sold off all loot, not usually, but every single time). so, dunno maybe they don't really care about PvP either come to think of it.

  • @gemmakat

    Hope to see you on the seas some time sailor, cheers.

  • @gemmakat I remember a maxim from the art of war

    Offer one hand in peace but arm the other for war

  • it is very tasty to steal alliance XD

  • @gemmakat said:

    I think there should be repercussions for attacking allies.

    You think there aren't? Because there are! If you attack allies, they'll likely fire back. 😉

  • @gemmakat said in Attacking Allies:

    @wolfmanbush
    personal freedom has no meaning if there are no consequences for your actions.

    You think there aren't consequences, but oh there are... There are...

  • The answer is simple = create your own repercussions.
    Vengeance on the seas.

  • I think the disparity with people that like to genuinely form alliances is that the benefits of teaming up heavily outweigh the lack of it. Most people would rather tackle PvE in larger teams because as much as we call the PvE easy, it isn't, it's tedious as hell and challenging as a single crew, especially if inexperienced. Personal attachments to alliances are only caused by one's misunderstanding of the functions and the chances someone is trying to betray.

    Obviously people are going to go full espionage and disguise their intentions fully to get what they want, and that will be inevitable, but it's always important to be on your guard regardless. Once loot is in play, all bets are off and it's up to your crew to make the right decisions before things go foobar.

    The best decision is doing the PvE as a single crew and defending against all potential threats, but because most players consistently approaching the idea of an alliance are in a pacifict mindset, this kind of vicious cycle is going to keep going. This is no flaw to the alliance system, but this is a major flaw to the mindsets of players trying to skip a tedious grind with friendship and "fun".

    Also you want a punishment for betrayal? Just... fight back and kill them. If you don't want people to betray, show them that you have no hesitation blowing them out of the water and making them take a bag of ice to the Ferry of the Damned. Teaching a lesson is a lot more than just calling the police so they can wag the finger and say "don't do this" (The game/game moderators punishing players for doing this). Matters are going to have to be taken into your own hands (fighting back as a strong crew), should you think taking the easy route would prove no throats.

  • @gemmakat alliances, by design, are tenuous. They are meant to have the potential for greed to turn the tide and suddenly be at your throat. Thus the reason the game is firstly PvPvE.

  • @salt-sands Certamente

  • @gemmakat trust no one ever if you join an alliance raise flags then go off and do your own thing turn in a small pile of loot if they don’t by the time you got a large pile of loot drop alliance also never take your eye off them always keep track of where their at easy side note most crews are either out for blood or want to be left alone I rarely see alliances anymore

  • I play this game using the advice of General Mattis. "Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill every person you meet." Just because you form an alliance doesn't mean you should let your guard down. Keep on eye on them and their crew, keep your ship in a safe spot, and always make sure that if the things go south you'll have the upper hand.

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