3 New Weapons!

  • Suggestion forum and all that:

    • dual pistols- just that. I think pistols should be able to be equipped as both weapons. If you right click with this loadout, it fires both. Major advantage of this one? Very little new development needed. #bemorepirate
    • Axe (boarding axe)- I've heard this a lot and it's always exciting to think about: left click swings. Right-click charges up heavy (maybe knockback empowered) swing. No block function. Give it a different combo (2 or four swings or whatever) Right-click a tree to hack at it and have a chance to spawn a plank. Right-click a hull patch and hold it (a long time, like 20 or 30 seconds) to remove the hull patch. Wrecks plant skellies.
    • Sledge- No block. No combo. Left click swings, does more damage than sword but is slower. Right click spins like barbarian whirlwind attack, dizzy after (unless you're drunk?) Damages blocking players, and wrecks gold skellies.
    • Grenades- Only hold 1 or 2 "ammo" at a time, stocked in the ammo boxes. Left click to charge your throw. Tap left-click to drop it at feet. Hold right-click for 3 seconds to "toggle" (apply) glue or remove glue to make sticky. Small explosion, capable of making 1 hole in a ship, and, of course damaging players. As the boom-barrels should, counts as source of light against shadow skellies.

    Long winded rambling:

    • Like the current weapons, these should be balanced to be different, not better.
    • Still can only equip two time, though more weapon types makes 3 at a time in the future a more viable design choice, as more options are still excluded.

    I think there should be more of this stuff and that it would enrich everyone's game at whatever level. What ideas do you have? Be specific as to the mechanics and keep it within the intention of the weapons in this game, please!

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  • I like the general idea, and have proposed some similar ideas myself in the past. For what you have here, my comments would be thus:

    1. Dual Flintlocks is a good one, and seems thematically appropriate. But it changes some of the dynamic of weapon selection in a way that I don't think is truly needed for the final result. I would, however, accept this if they wanted to simply figure out a full fledged Dual Wielding system, but again, I would rather just have some more new options as opposed to taking an existing one and letting me double it up.
    2. Boarding Axe is one that I have pushed for myself in the past, and essentially in the exact way that you have proposed here, so I am completely on board with this one as you have it. It also helps to pad out the Melee side of the spectrum to more than just the Cutlass with something that is period and thematically appropriate for the game, which helps to bring Melee up to snuff more with Ranged.
    3. Not a fan of the Sledge, as it just doesn't hit the right theme chords for me. That said, I would still personally love to see a Rapier added as another sword type. I would make it faster than the Cutlass while dealing less damage per hit. The primary attack for it would be a Thrust rather than a Slash, and the secondary attack would be a Slash instead of a Block. However, I would also add that the Slash if performed in sync against an opponent's Melee attack it would function as a Parry instead which would itself act as an immediate Knockback to the opponent similar to how the Block does when it fights off a full combo. That would feel more on theme to me, fits the having more skill means your better, and still adds some diversity when stacked up against a Cutlass or Boarding Axe.
    4. Love the idea of having some Thrown options added to the mix. I think we could actually expand it out to 3 different items so that Thrown falls in line with the expanded Melee and existing Ranged. You could have a Grenado, Stink Pot, and Daggers. The Grenado (which was a golden age of piracy version of a grenade) would function as you say - a small explosion that can damage a Hull in a single spot if it hits near enough, and can damage pirates near it as well (basically a little blast radius). As for the Stink Pot (which was another golden age of piracy thrown weapon), it could release a small radius based cloud around it that lingers for a time and anyone who steps through it will start vomitting for a period (but not get other drunk effects). Lastly for the Daggers, these could serve as a combo Melee or Thrown weapon where the primary attack acts as a Thrust (similar to the Rapier) and the secondary attack would act as a thrown weapon with a shorter range than a gun. We also already have a Dagger model in the game for voting on Voyages, so we could simply extend this and allow for skinning of it. I'd also just go ahead and let people have 5 of them (any type), just like they can with bullets for a gun.

    That gives us a split of 3 categories (Melee, Ranged, Thrown) of potential weapons, with 3 weapons per category (Flintlock/Blunderbuss/Musket, Cutlass/Rapier/Boarding Axe, Grenado/Stink Pot/Dagger), each of which can be combined in any way we like really. And, with that, I would be happy with the weapon system in this game. I'd not really need anything more added weapon wise, or any other gimmicks to it. 9 possible items available to put into combos of 2 at a time across the player base, each weapon having a slightly different function and use means we have a lot of possible interactions going on. Good enough for me.

  • @ubersnail-prime and @RedEyeSith These be great idea's Lads. As for the Boarding Axe Which is one i be personally wanting meself which has it's own tread in the link provided. These Idea's would go great amons't the growing Community Ideas List here. Would you like to this post to be listed?

  • I would love grenade's but they should be pure anti-personnel weapons as grenades of that era simply weren't powerful enough to cause damage of any kind to the hull.

  • @ubersnail-prime dual pistols and the boarding axe I want in game

  • @RedEyeSith Nice additions. I'm not 100% on the maul yet either. People did use heavy blunt items back then and it would have been more likely for a pirate to have a sledge than a mace, for example, but the mechanics could use some work. I would just like something that is slow but deals with blocking/ gold skelly's more effectively, at other expenses. love the stick pot.

    @ENF0RCER Of course. Add them to anything you like. I know the axe has been requested a lot, but I also would feel dumb posting a list and not mentioning it.

    @Crazed-Corsair What you say makes sense, but I also would want them to occupy a unique niche in the game, so maybe just having the right-click be something like "wedge the bomb in between some boards" or something slower and less ranged like that.

    @ClosingHare208 I love the idea of dual pistols and would gladly sacrifice having another weapon equipped for the videos and screenshots alone.

  • I like everything but the dual pistols. I just don't like dual guns at all. Whenever you think pirate you think of swash buckling pirate with a sword. Personally I think that the cutlass should be mandatory for one of your two weapons.

  • @nofears-fun
    a pirate we all know

    :)

  • @ubersnail-prime True, but he still has a cutlass on him. Not sure what a good answer is. I will still always have a cutlass. Too much risk not having one.

  • @nofears-fun I agree. I was just showing that dual weilding pirates is a solid part of the fantasy.

    Honestly, I think that if they added 3 or 4 new weapon types that all had different roles, they could bump it up to 3 being carried (like it was in the beta) and you would still be excluding meaningful choices ("I brought my sward for fighting and my ax for ship-breaking and my 'buss cause I'm scared, but I still can't kill that guy in the water!")

  • @ubersnail-prime yes

  • Thanks for sharing your ideas. I really want to see a dagger next. I made a post about it at this link which is on the Community Ideas List.

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/75318/usable-dagger-plus-dagger-and-gun-targets

    I would like to see it used as a thrown weapon and a tool to cut and pry open things. I would like to see it throwable at skeletons, players, and targets. Also suggest a dagger mini game.

    The other weapon I think we need like you mention is a boarding axe or iron crow. It is a very common request.

  • @ubersnail-prime The dual pistols must absolutely not be added to the game. That's a 1-shot kill if they both hit, since a normal pistol does 50% damage. If they make it not a one shot kill (e.g. each pistol does ~40% damage), then why not just use the Eye of Reach? Same damage, but longer range and with a scope. Despite being thematically cool, it doesn't have a balanced place in the game, and thus, I'm against it

    The boarding axe is a great idea, although I'm against making it a literal weapon. To have the power to reopen holes on a ship personally, it should just take up a weapon slot, but not be usable as a weapon. That's an insane amount of power to be carrying around with just the hole-opening ability. Additionally, until boarding as a tactic becomes less strong/mandatory, I'm against adding this in (although I would like to see it added eventually). Boarding doesn't need any help right now

    Like @RedEyeSith said, the sledge just doesn't really fit the game. I'm not a fan either. The rapier idea is great though, although I would tweak it slightly from RedEyeSith's suggestion. I would like to see it become a dueling superiority weapon, more tactical than the cutlass in a 1v1, but less able to deal with multiple attackers than the cutlass can in terms of defense. The parry-on-attack mechanic is creative, but sounds too strong. Given that all numbers are arbitrary and subject to change, I suggest something like this: I like the thrust as a primary attack. Have it do less damage than the cutlass (e.g. ~7 hit kill), be a two thrust combo (e.g. two consecutive thrusts before recovery) that's slightly quicker and with slightly longer range than the cutlass and no knockback at the end of the combo. After a primary attack, if the primary button is held, then the rapier user will prime their weapon for a timed parry (e.g. 0.5 second duration). This can be cancelled into a dodge by pressing space and a direction. If they are struck in this period, it knocks back the attacker and cancels their combo (note: a player cannot parry by holding a secondary attack, only primary). If the rapier user is not struck or otherwise takes damage (cannonball, bullet, cutlass lunge, etc), they are put into recovery. I also like the secondary horizontal slash. Have it as a one combo attack doing the same damage as the thrust, slightly faster than the cutlass primary, but with the same reach, although with a wider arc. Have the primary and secondary attacks be chainable into a three hit combo (e.g. thrust-thrust-slash, thrust-slash-thrust, slash-thrust-thrust). If the third attack in a three hit combo is a slash, it knocks back like the last cutlass slash if it is parried. Lastly, if the secondary attack is held, it performs a lunge attack similar to the cutlass, but with a horizontal slash instead of a thrust. This does less damage than the cutlass lunge (e.g. ~3-40% health), but would naturally cover a larger AoE. This gives a rapier user a huge variety of control strategies to use against a defender, including some ability to fight multiple defenders (the slash and lunge-slash), although the rapier user relies mostly on dodging for defense as their block can only be performed after a thrust and only blocks one attack, making it ineffective against multiple attackers at once. This means that despite it's advanced tactical capabilities, it is still best suited for engaging opponents one at a time

    (NOTE: the only problem I have with my idea for the rapier is that is doesn't currently have a way to dodge without first attacking and priming the parry. However, this could be solved by adding a separate button in the game for dodging with any weapon, meaning blocking first is not longer necessary. This also opens the door for possibly another move to be added to the cutlass)

    Throwing weapons would definitely be a cool addition, although Rare has to be extremely careful about what they implement in this regard, since the potential for radical imbalance is huge with these. They especially don't want to add anything that will increase the effectiveness of boarding right now, which is the biggest hamper to adding in new weapons. The grenado idea is awesome, but I feel like it does add to much power to boarders (much like the boarding axe) in this current iteration of the game, by virtue of basically being a pocket cannonball. The Stink Pot actually sounds like a benefit to the enemy team, since puking can be advantageous (puking on an enemy blinds them). It's just the drunken effect of being drunk that is the disadvantage. If it's made so it does somehow impair the victim, then I think that'd be almost too strong

    I do really like the idea of the daggers though, although I'd change them like so: dual daggers as a melee weapon. The primary attack is a very fast, low damage (lower than the rapier from before, maybe ~9-10 hit kill) cut with shorter range and smaller arc than the cutlass with an endless combo (daggers alternate cutting). Any cut in the combo can be cancelled into a shorter (e.g. half distance) dodge by pressing space and a direction. The secondary attack is a a fast, no windup, double dagger stab, same range as the primary, but with a forward hop (e.g. a quarter to third of a lunge distance), puts the player in recovery but without exhaustion (unlike the cutlass lunge), is blockable, does twice the primary cut damage, and knocks back the opponent if it connects with their block. Like the rapier and cutlass lunge, this move requires 'feet on the ground'. This can be performed after any hit in the primary combo, as long as the cut strikes something. Holding the primary button primes one of the daggers for throwing (short windup), which is thrown upon releasing the button. Getting hit during the windup cancels the priming. After throwing, the dagger is gone (a.k.a player only has one dagger left). The primary combo becomes half as fast and the secondary does half damage and doesn't knock back anymore. Both daggers can be thrown one after another, at which point the player can't attack without switching weapons. The throw is unblockable (like a bullet) and does something like a cutlass slash worth of damage (in other words, both throws are a little less than half health combined. This makes them ideal for finishing, but not for initiating). Using an ammo box restores the daggers (e.g. a dagger user has two 'shots'). Pressing the secondary button while a throw is primed cancels the throw. Lastly, holding the secondary button performs a block identical to the cutlass block, except any attack that causes knockback (third cutlass hit, rapier slash as third hit in a combo, double dagger stab) puts the player in exhaustion instead of the knockback (meaning they become vulnerable to being hit). This block can be dodged out of just like the cutlass' can. This makes daggers both extremely aggressive and versatile with their ranged option, but without the area control, raw single hit damage, or reliable defense of either the cutlass or rapier; a specialized weapon like the rapier, but focused on aggressive play rather than tactical play, but arguably even less well equipped to deal with multiple attackers. The daggers do have a block as well as dodge, but not one that can be heavily relied on as it is less responsive (holding the button instead of pressing the button = slight delay) and cannot block a whole combo without becoming vulnerable. This makes them both less defensive than the cutlass and less evasive than the rapier, since it's dodges are also less responsive (must attack or use less responsive block first)

    One last thing to keep in mind with weapon balance is lunge surfing. Using the cutlass lunge to traverse through water is a key mechanic in the game now. My iteration of the rapier also allows it to lunge surf just as well as the cutlass, however the daggers, while having a faster (no-windup) 'lunge' and thus be able to lunge surf more responsively (no delay), will not have the sheer launch power that the cutlass and rapier do because of a shorter lunge. This makes them better at getting off a ship or travelling short distances, but worse at boarding a ship or travelling long distances

    Given that I literally just thought through both these weapons literally as I wrote this, I'm sure there are a plethora of balance problems. That being said, I think the general concept behind each of them is solid and, if implemented, would expand the melee combat considerably. Also, seeing as I've given the rapier and daggers moveset four different options (pressing primary/secondary and then holding primary/secondary), if these were to be implemented, I would also like the cutlass to gain another unique move geared towards it's general purpose/defensive style

  • @ambiguousmonk said in 3 New Weapons!:

    @ubersnail-prime The dual pistols must absolutely not be added to the game. That's a 1-shot kill if they both hit, since a normal pistol does 50% damage. If they make it not a one shot kill (e.g. each pistol does ~40% damage), then why not just use the Eye of Reach? Same damage, but longer range and with a scope. Despite being thematically cool, it doesn't have a balanced place in the game, and thus, I'm against it

    That is a super long post, and I am flattered that you took the time to write it. I am sure I have not thought through all the balance implications and that they could be tweaked for balance. Off the top of my head: maybe you can't fire them both at the same time, making it essentially a cool-looking (important) 10 shot pistol, at the expense of having a secondary weapon. Regardless, I have no power in implementing it or not. That's all Rare. I just think holding 2 pistols would look cool.

    The boarding axe is a great idea, although I'm against making it a literal weapon. To have the power to reopen holes on a ship personally, it should just take up a weapon slot, but not be usable as a weapon. That's an insane amount of power to be carrying around with just the hole-opening ability. Additionally, until boarding as a tactic becomes less strong/mandatory, I'm against adding this in (although I would like to see it added eventually). Boarding doesn't need any help right now

    I would prefer that it function as a melee weapon, but not as good at maneuvering as the sword is currently (hence the no-blocking, no-lunging caveat). The whole idea behind all of these is not to be more or less powerful, but to change you loadout/ specialty. So, using an axe most of time would put you at a disadvantage, as you can;t block or lunge with it, but in return, you would have the ability to do some manual damage to a boat, albeit very slowly. It's designed so that if you have complete control of an enemy ship, and you have killed them all, you can work on sinking them in a more fun/ intuitive way. I don't see it as an "insane amount of power" because switching it for the sword would be a distinct disadvantage against someone using a sword.

  • @ubersnail-prime said in 3 New Weapons!:

    That is a super long post, and I am flattered that you took the time to write it.

    I'm super into game design and I love SoT, so it was well worth it to me! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

    @ubersnail-prime said in 3 New Weapons!:

    I am sure I have not thought through all the balance implications and that they could be tweaked for balance. Off the top of my head: maybe you can't fire them both at the same time, making it essentially a cool-looking (important) 10 shot pistol, at the expense of having a secondary weapon. Regardless, I have no power in implementing it or not. That's all Rare. I just think holding 2 pistols would look cool.

    If it's just for aesthetics, then I'm sure they could implement a cosmetic that has a pirate holding two pistols, although, for balance, it'd still only have five shots and have the same fire rate as a regular pistol (with each pistol alternating). Although, even then, a pirate might have a psychological advantage against anyone who doesn't know how it works lol

    @ubersnail-prime said in 3 New Weapons!:

    I would prefer that it function as a melee weapon, but not as good at maneuvering as the sword is currently (hence the no-blocking, no-lunging caveat). The whole idea behind all of these is not to be more or less powerful, but to change you loadout/ specialty. So, using an axe most of time would put you at a disadvantage, as you can;t block or lunge with it, but in return, you would have the ability to do some manual damage to a boat, albeit very slowly. It's designed so that if you have complete control of an enemy ship, and you have killed them all, you can work on sinking them in a more fun/ intuitive way. I don't see it as an "insane amount of power" because switching it for the sword would be a distinct disadvantage against someone using a sword.

    I'm just thinking of all the different ways it could be utilized and how powerful it could end up. For example, take a galleon crew of four. Three have normal fighting loadouts and one has an Eye of Reach and a boarding axe (Reason being: one EoR shot and one axe hit would be a kill, plus EoR is great support for the rest of the team and also great at camping the open hole). They put a single, bottom level hole in a galleon and then get a boarding attempt to hit the anchor. Say the anchor sailor eventually successfully hits the anchor and it lands. The others board asap and attempt to kill off the crew. If they do, then the ship is essentially guaranteed to sink. Once the attacking team has control of the ship, they just spawn camp the defending team and protect the single hole until the ship sinks. None of the attackers even need to be on their own ship. The defending team won't be able to counterboard if the attacking team is camping appropriately and if the attackers have no treasure, it doesn't particularly matter if their ship sinks anyway, it's just annoying. Especially if they or the defender has a rowboat. If the ship already has boarded holes, then landing the first shot isn't even necessary. A team could completely cut out the cannon combat entirely. Given, this still requires an attacking team to establish control of a defending ship, but with all four players on the job (three at the least), it isn't as hard as normal boarding attempts. Trying to come back from being attacked with a boarding strategy like that would be even more difficult. The thing that I feel would make it bad for the game in it's current state is how much stronger it would make the already very strong boarding strategies. I personally want to see ship vs ship cannon and sailing fights be more prominent and have boarding just be a specific niche strategy. Right now, at least in my experience (on both attacking and defending), it's the other way around

  • @ambiguousmonk That's good teamwork.

  • @ubersnail-prime I agree, but that's not a mitigating factor. The attack still needs good teamwork, but the defense requires so much greater teamwork to overcome. My crew and I already do basically this (without the boarding axe, obviously) nonstop, since it's nearly always the most effective tactic. The main issues are that 1) the defense against it is so much more difficult than the attack itself, 2) it reinforces boarding as the dominant attack strategy, and 3) it allows cutting out the ship vs ship combat altogether. What the game needs right now is making ship vs ship combat the dominate strategy, with boarding being a specific niche tactic, rather than the be-all-end-all strategy it is now. Once that happens, the boarding axe could be a great addition. My argument is that the game doesn't need it right now, but should have it eventually. There are other issues that need to be addressed before it has a reasonable place in the game

  • @ambiguousmonk I agree with a desire to balance a little more toward ship-to-ship, though I really like the boarding play in the game now.

    I think the axes could add a lot of gameplay variety, so, while I think balancing them is important, its worth exploring. Some simple balance ideas to address your concerns:

    • the axe does less damage than the sword- this makes it easier for a defeated team to stack up their return and re-take the ship
    • the axe takes longer to remove a plank patch- this makes it a legitimate question as to how best to spend your time.

    Finally, I agree with you that the axe should not be top priority right now. FISHING!!!!!

  • @ubersnail-prime If this game wants to get more spicy, then personally, I feel like they need to bump up the max amount of weapons to carry.

  • @ubersnail-prime great idea! Don’t you think they should add expensive jewellery too? Upvote my post on my profile if you think they should.

  • I think a rapier would be cool. And an axe and possibly a scoreless eye of reach. So basically an eye of reach without the eye. The rapier has quicker attacks that do like 20 damage rather than the current 25 per hit the cutlass does. And I think the concept of the axe and blunt weapon should be mixed. Like a slow swinging axe that does like 30 per hit would be a meta changer. This is coming from someone who purposely chases and fights other pirates on the daily. Also the scope less eye of reach has the zoom in of the flintlock but does the same damage of the original eye of reach in the current meta. Also I’ve seen discussion that the axe can be used to climb ships without use of the ladder

  • @ubersnail-prime

    more choices more imbalancies, exploitable loadouts, exploitable mecahnics.

    i'd like a reducion to flintlock with 2 bullets only and cutlass only.

    remove blunder and EoR!

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