Legend of the Veil can be cancelled once the tornado is up, stopping PVP from having meaning.

@toxie-will-kill yeah they should consider keeping it up for a bit after it is cancelled to give other crews a chance to steal it

Far too easy to steal this IMO and if they really want it to be a player activated world event, the loot from it needs to be closer to FoF with Athena items. Replace the phantom loot with Athena loot.

As far as cancelling and it’s gone, that’s literally no different than any other voyage and therefore seems to be fair and balanced.

If a crew are on their Athena dig map but haven’t tapped the chest, and they decide to cancel because you sank them early, then you don’t get the chest. That’s part of being skilled in PvP at this game, knowing when to pounce.

Yeah definitely not a fan of it being able to be cancelled after the forts were literally attacking us, and we were part of the event.

If you become part of the event you should be able to finish the event.

They should definitely change this.

If they cannot cancel the voyage, the attacking crew will have agency over the voyage table of the ones doing the voyage as they wouldn't have the opportunity to start another voyage until the attackers have finished the forts.

Also, would work great for alarming the crew of tuckers or other close-by crews.
I can't cancel the voyage, there must be someone close - abort the mission and check for tuckers.

This voyage's finale is such weird design because players that actually have the idea that they have control of how they want the voyage to end can use that power to their advantage to deny a rowdy pirate from swiping the haul at the end. However, people treating it like a world event because the first phase can be seen from across the map is extremely attractive to very... single-minded hunters.

I can understand the upset from all parties but I dunno, I feel like people just need to think outside the box. We literally have 2 free actual hiding emotes available to players right now, rowboats exist, swimming with a sword to kill sharks exist. Like Just be good at stealing stuff when they either get the chance put the loot on their boat, or get them before they can get away, since it's very feasible to outsail someone.

Stealing isn't meant to be easy just cause you're good at direct one-on-one combat, and the thirst to steal the 10K gold Chest of Legends shows who's very pro-naval over pro-ship-less thieving.

This was pretty disheartening as we worked hard to sink them and enjoyed viewing this voyage as if it were a world event, similar to FotD.

Yeah…worked hard. XD
But it similar to Red Sea, you should of waited after they taken the loot or finished the voyage so it wouldn’t do this. Player issue.

Try again, and make it a surprise :)

It's just bad game design honestly. Rare either needs to commit to player created world events or don't.

Personally, I'm hugely in favor of player created world events, but since all the events just converge on the same old tactics of wait until the event is done, sink them, and profit, everyone is disheartened on both ends of the spectrum.

Players who would do these voyages the most, i.e. PvE players feel betrayed that the newest, best voyages have giant beacons at the end that might lead to them losing all the work they put in. So they will become discouraged from doing these. Risk is fine, I'm all in favor of risk/reward, but they don't feel rewarded at all for being the ones to actually do the voyage, might as well just steal them when you see them.

Players who would do these voyages the least, but steal the most, i.e. PvP players will get bored waiting for people to do these events, i.e. like waiting for someone to do the FoF, will get bored waiting and hiding for it to finish, and might even get nothing at all if they do attack before it is completed since the voyage can be canceled.

So it will be a toss-up, sometimes these voyages will have nobody attacking, other times, everyone. But that means these voyages will basically never feel compelling or offer the right risk/reward because sometimes it will be too easy with no attacking ships, and other times way too frustrating with constant ships. I think it's sad that basically everything in the game can be described this way. Here was a chance to make something different. And sure, the actual voyage and event itself is novel, but the destination feels all too familiar. It is half-baked, and reflects on Rare's desire to appease both crowds, but not execute on either.

Rare really needs to start making events that encourages everyone to participate if they want a cut of gold. Then once everyone has a little something on their ship, let them fight it out if they choose to stay to try and get more.

But they keep making events where everything good comes at the very end, and usually, it is too risky to let any other ships be in the vicinity. Poor game design because it really oversimplifies what is otherwise an excellent sandbox game. The best type of events would almost be a king of the hill type where loot is proportional to the amount of time / waves you finish while at the event, similar to how flameheart loot drops throughout, and which there is enough to do and a large enough area that ships can coexist within the event. Then PvP and PvE prowess are both rewarded, and there is some strategy with how and when you attack other vessels. Flameheart did this better than any other event, and I hope it will return with even better mechanics that lean in further on world events which encourage a kind of "uneasy cooperation."

@nex-stargaze said in Legend of the Veil can be cancelled once the tornado is up, stopping PVP from having meaning.:

I can understand the upset from all parties but I dunno, I feel like people just need to think outside the box. We literally have 2 free actual hiding emotes available to players right now, rowboats exist, swimming with a sword to kill sharks exist. Like Just be good at stealing stuff when they either get the chance put the loot on their boat, or get them before they can get away, since it's very feasible to outsail someone.

Stealing isn't meant to be easy just cause you're good at direct one-on-one combat, and the thirst to steal the 10K gold Chest of Legends shows who's very pro-naval over pro-ship-less thieving.

For sure, now that I know how it works, I'll use a different approach. But I stand by my initial point. It was incredibly fun fighting amongst the battlements and phantoms, with the vortex adding so much atmosphere and aesthetic to the battle. I would have loved to see that type of approach to stealing this voyage encouraged, considering we can tuck on literally every other voyage in the game.

I agree entirely on it defeating the purpose of it. All it really does is encourage camping just outside.

I'm going to add this on to the list of features that exist to help people give up and refuse to try and fight.

The only issue is that if you didn't remove it, then in theory you could end up with 100s of tornados going at once. I could end my voyage, and then start a new one. Then there would be 2 tornadoes, and so on

So yeah. Stupid feature that removes meaning, but not really a way to fix it

bahahahahahahahahahaaaaaahahahaaaaahahahahahahbaaaahhahhahaaaa

deep breath

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA

To quote Wilder: YOU GET NOTHING!

I canceled one last night because a galleon was lurking in the vacinity. Fort FX stopped,but the garrisons and main fort were still shootable. Don't give pvp a handout. Cancel your voyage and sell/hop.

Ha. I love it.

Sorry to be the one to tell you this friend, but PVP stopped having any meaning in this game long ago. Rare insists this is a "shared world adventure game" and that "it has PVP in it, but isn't a PVP game". The game has had hit registration problems mentioned in the patch notes in every single update since I started playing, and you can't have any decent PVP in a game that can't even accurately detect when you hit somebody. They've removed the arenas, reduced the number of ships on a server decreasing the frequency of player encounters, provided new ways to avoid other players or do single player instanced content, and otherwise crippled any PVP content in the game while adding gobs of PVE focused material for several seasons now. Even contentious threads on the forums that offer feedback or suggestions related to PVP are now often shut down, citing recent podcasts where the devs made it clear they don't care about us PVP players. I think Rare is just starving PVP players of content and hoping we will all go away.

@wolfmanbush said in Legend of the Veil can be cancelled once the tornado is up, stopping PVP from having meaning.:

@artibyrd said in Legend of the Veil can be cancelled once the tornado is up, stopping PVP from having meaning.:

Sorry to be the one to tell you this friend, but PVP stopped having any meaning in this game long ago. Rare insists this is a "shared world adventure game" and that "it has PVP in it, but isn't a PVP game". The game has had hit registration problems mentioned in the patch notes in every single update since I started playing, and you can't have any decent PVP in a game that can't even accurately detect when you hit somebody. They've removed the arenas, reduced the number of ships on a server decreasing the frequency of player encounters, provided new ways to avoid other players or do single player instanced content, and otherwise crippled any PVP content in the game while adding gobs of PVE focused material for several seasons now. Even contentious threads on the forums that offer feedback or suggestions related to PVP are now often shut down, citing recent podcasts where the devs made it clear they don't care about us PVP players. I think Rare is just starving PVP players of content and hoping we will all go away.

Strongly disagree with some of the sentiment here.

1. Hopping pvp has just flat out been catered to for a long time, for content.

2. It's actually impressive how friendly devs have been towards all types of pvp within the rules. How strong they have been on allowing the grittier pvp within a world where they are not bringing in gritty pirates in any sort of significant numbers.
   I don't think the catering has been healthy for the environment at all at some points of the game but sticking to their guns on really letting people pirate how they want is impressive.

3. Many pvpers/content creators in this game have a lot of pvp ideas that are very short sighted for immediate reward. It's understandable why but just because the devs haven't catered to all of their preferences doesn't mean pvp has been neglected. Healthy pve is healthy pvp, that's how this game is designed.

All they are doing right now is a self preserving move to balance. As it should be. Why? because pirates were killing off everything in unsustainable numbers. Killing the organic experience through low contribution slaughterfests that were amplified with server hopping.

Pvpers have more than ever to hunt right now, they will just have to earn it sometimes. It shouldn't be handed to them for content and highlights. People aren't content pawns. Nobody is entitled to these massive numbers that people bring in by hopping around for quick sinks.

None of your words make sense.

1. "Tools not rules" means people wanting to avoid PVP can use the same tools PVP players use to find PVP. Portal hopping is not a PVP specific mechanic and in no way was designed to "cater" to PVP players - I wouldn't disagree that PVP players take advantage of it more frequently.
2. I don't know what you're talking about here, maybe a more specific example will help elucidate your point?
3. Not sure what you mean by short sighted content creator PVP ideas here or whatever either. But the larger point is the PVP/PVE balance you mention is not currently preserved, it's strongly leaning in favor of PVE content. No new PVP-centric events, no new PVP rewards, the Arenas were completely removed... meanwhile all the new PVE content they've been adding have some neat ways to reduce your risks of PVP. Even just reducing the number of ships on a server was a blow to PVP and a benefit for PVE players. I still think it's fair to say PVP in this game is neglected and there is not any semblance of balance between PVP and PVE like you seem to believe.

The long term consequences of this is that rewards in the game will lose their value after players realize there is reduced risk involved with getting them - people will become bored of this game more quickly and move onto other games. I agree with you that a PVP/PVE balance is needed for the overall health of this game. That's not what we have right now at all though.

Players who cancel it after getting sunked is just so awful, what do you expect? Players coming to give a nice welcome and not expecting to take your loot, Terrible PvE Players.

It is a shame to miss out on a steal, I belive the best methods to prevent this are:

1. Make the crew quit before they cancel the Voyage. You get 10 minutes to finish it for them before the Voyage is automatically canceled. (Note that the final fort will not attack you, nor will ghost ships spawn during this method)

2. Spawnkill the crew till you finish the voyage. If they quit see option 1 (don't forget you can use their shop for 10 minutes before it despawns)

I feel like this is just the red sea debate but with a different façade.

It comes down to if you think forcibly despawning loot fits with the "vision" and "ethos" of sea of theives.

It's equivalent to the kid on the playground taking his ball back because his team is losing.

@wolfmanbush the metaphor doesn't have to be about sport. It applies to literally any game. Once you quit the game you shouldn't be able to influence the game. Like imagine you're playing scrabble and you quit so take all your tiles you put down with you.

You're free to play scrabble however you want - if you feel that making as many swear words as you can is a "win" you can do that, but the key underlying fact is noone is entitled to the pieces and that includes you.

@wsurftvveeds said in Legend of the Veil can be cancelled once the tornado is up, stopping PVP from having meaning.:

@wolfmanbush the metaphor doesn't have to be about sport. It applies to literally any game. Once you quit the game you shouldn't be able to influence the game. Like imagine you're playing scrabble and you quit so take all your tiles you put down with you.

You're free to play scrabble however you want - if you feel that making as many swear words as you can is a "win" you can do that, but the key underlying fact is noone is entitled to the pieces and that includes you.

This is really nothing akin to red sea loot despawn. This is much more like getting attacked during the last stage of a traditional legendary voyage and choosing to not dig up the athena chest until it is safe or canceling the voyage. In either case, the unskilled attackers get nothing because they didnt have patience or intelligence enough to get some intel on how far along the voyage was before attacking.

If we are gonna have a big green neon sign in the sky and it be open to anyone to attack and steal from the moment the 4th stage of the voyage begins and it be impossible to cancel, they really need to buff that athena loot pile 2x+ to equal FoF or better. Even still at that point, many crews will just do stage 1-2 and cancel loop to use the veil stones as a athena rep boost to 5 for emissary quests.

@wolfmanbush you haven't really explained why the metaphor isn't valid.

But to answer your question, there's absolutely nothing wrong with pushing back, but there's a right and a wrong way to go about it (or rather for the game mechanics to let people go about it). Like running for example, rather than a cheap everyone loses button.

That being said, while the mechanics allow it, it's a valid thing no matter how much I dislike it. The same way x-cancelling was a valid thing people could do, until the devs decided they didn't like it and removed it. Irrespective of if you want to label it an exploit or not.

@kommodoreyenser It's an event that takes a fraction of FoF's time, that you are prepared for it to spawn, with very limited tucking options - I'd say half of a fof is generous.

@wsurftvveeds
I would think its more like a kid popping a hole in his ball because the local bully keeps stealing it. That way neither gets it. So neither wins. I don't see a problem with those that want to steal the loot just as I don't have a problem with those who want to prevent them from stealing the loot. Everyone has an equal chance to see the Event is happening and they can go and try to steal it. If they make their presence known and the "prey" cancels the mission who's fault is that? I would think the strategy would be to either wait for the event to be completed and battle for the loot, or to try and sneak on the base and steal it as they finish. I don't see why this is a problem. If that seems unfair, then those that want the chest so badly can always do the mission themselves.

@ram2k14 I think you, and quite a few people are missing the point I had made. It's not about how to steal it, it's about the fact that this could have been a chance to create a world event centered around naval combat. We have so many voyages where the strategy to steal boils down to hiding and waiting, even the current world events support this strategy, as does the legend of the veil.

The issue I find with this is that well, that's the only supported strategy for stealing voyages.
This one being centered around naval combat made for an interesting and refreshing change of pace. And I find it unfortunate that the naval approach will result in the voyage being cancelled, leaving people that want to steal resort to hiding and waiting, again.

This mechanism doesn't stop people trying to steal it, it just reduces the methods of approach. Personally, I think that is a shame.

Seems like there's never going to be agreement on this, two polar extremes that the majority gravitate towards.

@ram2k14

@ram2k14 said in Legend of the Veil can be cancelled once the tornado is up, stopping PVP from having meaning.:

@wsurftvveeds
I would think its more like a kid popping a hole in his ball because the local bully keeps stealing it.

Loot isn't yours until you sell it.

In that case it's like popping a hole in a ball that you don't actually own....