@amendelwyr we are participating in the current discussion nothing worng with that. If you want to talk specifically about streamers server hopping there is actually a forum that's also blowing up about that hopping problem specifically. We are discussing all forms of server hopping and why it's bad, growing rapidly, and is a large issue already
Stop Server Hoppers
@d3adst1ck I already told you where to look for your evidence. Anyhow this falls into the same example with the cigarettes again, you don't know how bad something is until it gets bad. They may have been allowing this as ok for their partners up until now, but with the current questionig of it they will certainly investigate and potentially re evaluate
@expsnailer
I was posting it for the express purpose of presenting a video concerning server-hopping and stream-sniping paired together. I know of the thread specifically, but it felt to me that my expression fit better (especially the content of the video in the beginning which backed up my points I'd made earlier in the thread).I also made the distinction to avoid untoward locking of the thread because it is an argument with no real additions.
And to give @D3ADST1CK some proof of your own points as well ::
- Specific to server-hopping LFG channels and marketing on the internet to find Sea of Thieves "content" ==== https://youtu.be/XwxqjqqTHww --- Well known streamer, Sea of Thieves Partner, says that yes, this is a thing.
@amendelwyr I would argue that it does add to the discussion because there may be others with veiws he has on this subject and by discussing it they may be better informed.
@galactic-geek I added that point, the abuse of ships "not belonging" to the server.
It is something that I notice clearly with the current event, it is impossible to find experienced players, it is impossible to find ships with loot, and with it, impossible to meet the objectives.Alliances is another directly related problem, its initial objective is distorted, Rare must redesign the system (limit of ships, distances or rewards).
For example, this is from early todayWhat we all need to do is submit report tickets.
@expsnailer 538 results for the word 'hop' in the last 2 weeks on the entire official Sea of Thieves discord, which includes all LFG channels as well as chat, etc.. This picks up all variants of the word including 'hopping', and 'hopped'.
This works out to ~0.0266 requests per minute (around 1 request per hour), including duplicate copy+pastes from the same user and also includes people talking about when they did hop previously (a few messages were like this). 1 request per hour on a server with nearly 200K members is hardly an epidemic of server hopping requests or mass groups of people looking to hop servers.
@d3adst1ck That's fantastic your starting to look around and research! But I said alliance server discords not SoT official discord. Start with that them xbox SoT club lfg, and then watch some streams.
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@d3adst1ck That's fantastic your starting to look around and research! But I said alliance server discords not SoT official discord. Start with that them xbox SoT club lfg, and then watch some streams.
Those are all much smaller sample sizes. They are irrelevant. If this is an epidemic causing problems, surely it will impact much larger sample sizes like the official discord.
33 results in the same time period on Sea of Thieves Community discord, which has around 55K members. Still not significant.
ZERO groups advertising with the word 'hop' on XBox LFG right now. The majority of these groups are just looking for players to do voyages.
@d3adst1ck So I want to hop servers for an alliance, I'm going to go to the offical discord or community discord for this? No I'm going to go to the discord made for it. Your saying it's smaller sampling sizes but it's not a sample size, someone in a alliance server discord is a hopper. Their entire member list is. You've yet to investigate streamers either.
The only thing you have investigated is what I considered the cherry on top, being the people who do it for personal gain only.
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@d3adst1ck So I want to hop servers for an alliance, I'm going to go to the offical discord or community discord for this? No I'm going to go to the discord made for it. Your saying it's smaller sampling sizes but it's not a sample size, someone in a alliance server discord is a hopper. Their entire member list is.
You mean I'm going to get a higher concentration of something in a forum that is heavily biased towards that specific thing? You don't say.
Requiem ~ 13K members: 24 mentions of 'hop' over the same time period
Athena's Vanguard ~7K members: too much of a PITA to get access to the channels, so I didn't bother but this is a low member server.Highly biased, not representative of the playerbase at all and seemed to be low activity in terms of hopping activity.
You've yet to investigate streamers either.
There are only a handful of streamers that I'm familiar with that this could apply to:
- Pace22, Phuzzybond, BBXH, Alactar are larger streamers that either don't server hop, don't accept invites from random viewers for servers, or who do PvE mostly.
- HitboTC does take invites from other users, and he usually averages around 800 viewers. Less than 100 of these viewers are actively hunting servers for him, I'd be surprised if it was more than 10 to be honest.
Other streamers I'm not familiar with but likely do not have the viewer counts of these ones.
@D3ADST1CK
An important thing to note is that players who are hoppers are also already friends. They've got crews and group Discords which they fill slots with all across the globe.This won't usually appear as "hop" either. That's an extremely low variant of word usage concerning their objective. Additionally, SoT official discord is, as @ExpSnailer points out, an extremely small sample already.
There are 15 million people who play Sea of Thieves in a month across console and PC. That's not insignificant in size. So, if an entire thread, or goodness me, two threads specifying some aspects of Server Hopping and the problems associated with it get as much attention as they are now on the Feedback/Suggestion channel, you've got to examine it with a new perspective. (Because Forums aren't what they used to be back in my day...)
"Maybe there is something that I haven't seen, haven't experienced, which they have."
@ExpSnailer, I would go and get more pictures of these Alliance Servers' and Hopper things, but I'm out of time to make my responses today. Could you provide links/pictures/gifs for DeadStick to get closer to?
This image was originally used to detail "Ship Naming" and how it'd be cool that way, but that is a server that is made up completely of a community of server-hoppers that bullied/bought every other ship:
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.
1: Pace22 - Only PvP, only hops. As soon as he gets "content" he leaves and looks with his friends for "content." - He is among the highest targets in my list who encourages this kind of playstyle.
2: PhuzzyBond states often that he sits on the server, because it is organic. And he also answers questions from his community that server-hoppers are looking for FoTD active, which brings PvP to him, because naturally those people are jumping servers for PvP... He doesn't hop, and plays the game as it does. The video I linked earlier is classic server-hopping madness (doubled-up with stream-sniping).
3: Summit1G - Doesn't sail often enough now, but earlier and in my YouTube watching of him, he was tucking and swapping servers to get "good tucks".@amendelwyr said in Stop Server Hoppers:
There are 15 million people who play Sea of Thieves in a month across console and PC. That's not insignificant in size. So, if an entire thread, or goodness me, two threads specifying some aspects of Server Hopping and the problems associated with it get as much attention as they are now on the Feedback/Suggestion channel, you've got to examine it with a new perspective. (Because Forums aren't what they used to be back in my day...)
LOL, this is completely false. There are not 15 million players in a month, that is the total players over the LIFE of the game. If you can't even get that simple fact right I'm certainly not going to trust your inflated server hopper figures.
@amendelwyr said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@D3ADST1CK
An important thing to note is that players who are hoppers are also already friends. They've got crews and group Discords which they fill slots with all across the globe.So small groups of people at best then? I fall to see how this is a significant impact on the game.
This won't usually appear as "hop" either. That's an extremely low variant of word usage concerning their objective. Additionally, SoT official discord is, as @ExpSnailer points out, an extremely small sample already.
Right, but I also listed a community discord and the Xbox lfg listings at the time neither of which were advertising hopping. Most lfg requests in all instances were just looking for people to do voyages or events of some kind.
There are 15 million people who play Sea of Thieves in a month across console and PC. That's not insignificant in size.
Nope, but that's also not active players. Those are lifetime numbers of players who have ever stepped foot in the game even if they never played again.
1: Pace22 - Only PvP, only hops. As soon as he gets "content" he leaves and looks with his friends for "content." - He is among the highest targets in my list who encourages this kind of playstyle.
2: PhuzzyBond states often that he sits on the server, because it is organic. And he also answers questions from his community that server-hoppers are looking for FoTD active, which brings PvP to him, because naturally those people are jumping servers for PvP... He doesn't hop, and plays the game as it does. The video I linked earlier is classic server-hopping madness (doubled-up with stream-sniping).
3: Summit1G - Doesn't sail often enough now, but earlier and in my YouTube watching of him, he was tucking and swapping servers to get "good tucks".
play this game anymore.Not sure what list is trying to prove. It can basically be summed up as:
- Maximum of 4 players hopping. The largest SoT streamer in terms of viewer count doesn't use his viewers to find servers.
- Doesn't hop but sometimes runs into people that might be server hoppers.
- Doesn't play game but bad man bad
Not very compelling arguments.
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@wolfmanbush Your point about open crew is valid.
After that tho you've lost me, do me a solid, rent a game server and have people constantly connecting and disconnecting from it then tell me it dosn't hurt performance.
And no I don't like server hoppers probably not for the reasons I'm assuming your thinking. My first reason is the above mentioned server issue and my second being that this is a game where nothing is guaranteed. Hoppers are exploiting the game to get the experience they desire all the while damaging servers stability. Servers shouldn't have to struggle because hoppers can't get what they want in a game where nothing is guaranteed.
Also about waiting around doing nothing lol how about playing the game, you know the one where nothing is guaranteed. Play instead of waiting for your perfect hand to be delt.
Rare should take the Negan approach this one and "Shut that **** down, no exceptions" ❤️
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Renting a game server and having people connect and disconnect is not even close to being a real representation of Rares server structure. Even if you did rent a game server and tried it out, i doubt you'd see any noticeable performance issues. You should test it, since you're the one claiming that there's a stability issue, with no source or evidence pointing to it.
With over 15 million players over SoTs lifetime Rare doesnt just have a "game server", they have thousands of them, and probably different servers that handle connections, so even if connecting and disconnecting to a server did cause performance issues, it would take care of that.
Another great example of finding some random thing you know nothing about and using it to make your point valid. Come back with a source or test it yourself before you claim that connecting and disconnecting to a server degrades performance.
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@thecobra7191 I have stress tested DayZ servers I've rented. Biggest issue is when alot of player connect in short spans of time, this is simulated by hopping in large numbers...
And did you by chance also have a load balancer or a matchmaking server in place? If not, your "test" proves nothing much less backs up the hokum you are spewing.
Look through the list of discord servers, note the ones purly for server alliance/fleets aka hoppers. Their online player counts should be considered, along with how many players are actually in the discords.
Ones like "Legends of the seas" "Ashen alliance" "fleet of the damned" and "fleets of fortune" already debunk your theory of it only being a few hundred with there online player count alone.
@dlchief58 as I've explained befor these programs are not made for such larg masses of players moving around constantly. They work for normal online game flow not constant hopping. The same reason that servers struggle during new updates, just to many players to often.
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
Ones like "Legends of the seas"
Less than 400 members online. Likely much less than that actually playing the game.
"Ashen alliance"
1300 members online. They set up fleets between 2 hours according to their description. There are currently 5 active voice channels, which means they are occupying maybe 2-3 servers.
"fleet of the damned"
113 online. LOL
"fleets of fortune"
1600 online.
Online player count includes people with their discord app open and connected, not actually playing Sea of Thieves. From the servers I could get into, none of them had nearly the same number of players in the game as they did online in the discord.
These are all smaller than the official or community discords. They are going to contain a higher concentration of players looking for alliance servers, but are they generating any excess server hop traffic? No - because they set up the servers and then manage slots. They are not hopping all day, and as Rare has already said it's not worth policing Alliance servers because they are a small percent of a percentage point of the active players so server hopping from these places is also negligible.
@d3adst1ck That list is over 2500 online players alone, not to mention discords for different languages and discord that are not soly for server alliances. You wanted proof you got it, you misrepresented number is already debunked with those 4 alones online counts, again that's just the people online, what about the ones showing offline or busy or do not disturb or the thousands of players not on atm. Everyday literally thousands of players are server hopping, if each online player server hops twice ONLY twice you already have the stress load of 5000 load ins. It gets worse the more times each person trys. You wanted proof you got it.
I told you so ❤️
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@dlchief58 as I've explained befor these programs are not made for such larg masses of players moving around constantly. They work for normal online game flow not constant hopping. The same reason that servers struggle during new updates, just to many players to often.
LOL, you [Mod edited] have no idea what Rare enables. And you think your dinky DayZ server is any comparison to the Azure servers Microsoft employs is truly rich, much like your dismissal of FACTS that counter your claims.
You are right about struggles after updates, but that is because there are a huge amount of people trying to get back on at the same time (with many of those hopping to find the new content, that I will give you). But all this other server hopping that you and others are railing against is truly an insignificant number and a non-issue....and in no way comparable to update day issues.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of server hoppers myself - either for PvP action, setting up PvE/Alliance servers or even trying to get specific content. But it is very disingenuous of you and the others to try and represent it as some huge issue when it is absolutely nothing of the sort, nor has it had any affect upon server stability as you claim without proof (and then when confronted with this fact you change the story to it WILL be at some time, LOL!). If it were an issue, I could get behind some sort of limiter in place...but it isn't nor will it be at any time, thus is a waste of time, resources and money to be devoted to a non-issue. If it were an issue, Rare would have the data to see that and would implement some sort of fix....but as we've seen nothing of the sort I feel it is safe to say you and the others are doing nothing more than barking at shadows - you seem to do a lot of that.
@dlchief58 said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@dlchief58 as I've explained befor these programs are not made for such larg masses of players moving around constantly. They work for normal online game flow not constant hopping. The same reason that servers struggle during new updates, just to many players to often.
LOL, you [Mod edited] have no idea what Rare enables. And you think your dinky DayZ server is any comparison to the Azure servers Microsoft employs is truly rich, much like your dismissal of FACTS that counter your claims.
You are right about struggles after updates, but that is because there are a huge amount of people trying to get back on at the same time (with many of those hopping to find the new content, that I will give you). But all this other server hopping that you and others are railing against is truly an insignificant number and a non-issue....and in no way comparable to update day issues.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of server hoppers myself - either for PvP action, setting up PvE/Alliance servers or even trying to get specific content. But it is very disingenuous of you and the others to try and represent it as some huge issue when it is absolutely nothing of the sort, nor has it had any affect upon server stability as you claim without proof (and then when confronted with this fact you change the story to it WILL be at some time, LOL!). If it were an issue, I could get behind some sort of limiter in place...but it isn't nor will it be at any time, thus is a waste of time, resources and money to be devoted to a non-issue. If it were an issue, Rare would have the data to see that and would implement some sort of fix....but as we've seen nothing of the sort I feel it is safe to say you and the others are doing nothing more than barking at shadows - you seem to do a lot of that.
You literally insulting me but then turn around and say it's true that the server struggles because of hopping but I'm wrong. 🤔 Bizzar.
You're confusing and combining several things into what you think is proof.
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
That list is over 2500 online players alone
- This means on discord, not in game.
- I imagine several of these higher number discords will have an overlap of members, so the number of unique users is likely less than the total amount
not to mention discords for different languages and discord that are not soly for server alliances.
Now you're including players who might not even be hopping into your numbers. These are all "Sea of Thieves" discords, and as I've shown the number of people specifically hopping for content in the largest of these is extremely small.
again that's just the people online, what about the ones showing offline or busy or do not disturb or the thousands of players not on atm. Everyday literally thousands of players are server hopping, if each online player server hops twice ONLY twice you already have the stress load of 5000 load ins.
Offline or busy players don't count - they aren't playing the game. If we're counting those, then might as well include the full 15M players in Sea of Thieves which makes these numbers even more laughable: 5000 out of 15,000,000 is less than 0.001%. Oh No!
Even if we take your numbers at face value, you have 5000 connection requests which are sent to the matchmaking system before ever seeing a game server. Those 5000 requests are probably also spread out across several regions, so they get directed to regional matchmaking. The spread of these connection requests makes them easily handled and likely barely a blip on their infrastructure because even if you server hop twice, your individual requests are spread out by a few minutes simply due to the time it takes to go from the main menu, to the ship selection screen and finally loading into the server.
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@dlchief58 said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@expsnailer said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@dlchief58 as I've explained befor these programs are not made for such larg masses of players moving around constantly. They work for normal online game flow not constant hopping. The same reason that servers struggle during new updates, just to many players to often.
LOL, you (an internet nobody with very little computer and networking knowledge based by the laughable things you've posted) have no idea what Rare enables. And you think your dinky DayZ server is any comparison to the Azure servers Microsoft employs is truly rich, much like your dismissal of FACTS that counter your claims.
You are right about struggles after updates, but that is because there are a huge amount of people trying to get back on at the same time (with many of those hopping to find the new content, that I will give you). But all this other server hopping that you and others are railing against is truly an insignificant number and a non-issue....and in no way comparable to update day issues.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of server hoppers myself - either for PvP action, setting up PvE/Alliance servers or even trying to get specific content. But it is very disingenuous of you and the others to try and represent it as some huge issue when it is absolutely nothing of the sort, nor has it had any affect upon server stability as you claim without proof (and then when confronted with this fact you change the story to it WILL be at some time, LOL!). If it were an issue, I could get behind some sort of limiter in place...but it isn't nor will it be at any time, thus is a waste of time, resources and money to be devoted to a non-issue. If it were an issue, Rare would have the data to see that and would implement some sort of fix....but as we've seen nothing of the sort I feel it is safe to say you and the others are doing nothing more than barking at shadows - you seem to do a lot of that.
You literally insulting me but then turn around and say it's true that the server struggles because of hopping but I'm wrong. 🤔 Bizzar.
No insult, just a logical observation based on your own replies. And I in NO way backed you up, only pointed out that the servers after a monthly update are hammered because nearly every active player is trying to get back into the game in a short period of time - not because of server hoppers. Those that are server hopping in that time frame are present, but are not the root of the issue like you make it out to be (especially since new content is generally running at a higher percentage than other events, negating the need for a lot of hopping). The issue then is EVERYONE trying to get back in to play the game at once, not the few who are hopping in that same time period (though they probably don't help in that one instance).
So not sure how you came to the conclusion that I somehow supported your pet rant of the week, but does show that you are lacking in some analytical skills (relying on taking things out of context and ignoring all logic that counters your view to bolster your own weak argument) and that you cannot be taken seriously in subjects like this.
@dlCHIEF58 Please refrain from personal attacks against others when posting on the forums. It is a violation of our forum rules, and your post has been edited accordingly.
@d3adst1ck
Don't take things too far down the line for just one aspect that we believe is a potential cause of Hit-Reg! (One of the reasons Rare has a Feedback/Suggestion forum and not a "I know better than you" channel.) You might believe that everything is fine and dandy with Rare's servers or Microsoft's Azure platform services, but the reality is that sometimes things aren't. They won't tell you that, only we, the players, can feel that something is off, and we're talking about how Hopping is creating servers with more emptiness, less organic play, and less good to the game as a whole.I believe that Hit-Reg issues appear more often and of worse nature when hoppers are doing their activities in or near peak-hours. Is it honest to goodness, doggone fact and true? I have no idea, but I believe it to be.
Honestly, all this research you're bringing in from your side of the table is showing is that "Yes, people are server-hopping and building huge communities dedicated to it," and, "Yes, people that are hopping are circumventing the game's mechanics," and "Yes, people are cheesing things and not playing the game as it should be and/or emphasizing an aspect of it to get their perfect game session." -- That's what we first wanted to show you.
Will getting rid of Server-Hopping fix Hit-Reg? Who knows? Only Rare can definitively identify whether this is truly a part of that ever-present problem for a low tickrate server setup.
@amendelwyr said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@d3adst1ck
You might believe that everything is fine and dandy with Rare's servers or Microsoft's Azure platform services, but the reality is that sometimes things aren't.I never said this.
Honestly, all this research you're bringing in from your side of the table is showing is that "Yes, people are server-hopping and building huge communities dedicated to it," and, "Yes, people that are hopping are circumventing the game's mechanics," and "Yes, people are cheesing things and not playing the game as it should be and/or emphasizing an aspect of it to get their perfect game session." -- That's what we first wanted to show you.
I never denied any of this either. There are clearly people hopping and communities built around creating server alliances, etc...
All I'm saying is that these communities have very little effect on the game as a whole. There is no difference between a new player that logs onto your server vs. one that hopped from a different server.
This is not as big of a problem as the amount of complaining it is generating and the number of active in-game players compared with the active in-game numbers of players on all of those discords prove that they are a very small number of the total active population.
Will getting rid of Server-Hopping fix Hit-Reg? Who knows? Only Rare can definitively identify whether this is truly a part of that ever-present problem for a low tickrate server setup.
If your stance is that joining a server somehow effects hit registration, then you might as well advocate for single player because players join servers all the time (whether they hopped or not) because that's how the matchmaking works.
@d3adst1ck Actually you haven't shown anything, we have. You just been saying things. Also no I'm not adding to my numbers, there are clans/discords that are in different languages other than english that are for this same purpose no doubt. And there are larger clans/discords that host other content but also host server alliances aka hopping. They fit in the figure..
Sure the online counts represents who's online in discord, my point is that those online counts are high showing high demand. The full player count of online/offline players is even larger. The online count also is only representative of who's online at the time of searching. Does that mean they are all hopping right now? No. Does that mean they do hop? Yes. Why else join a server alliance discord.
Also your argument that the players offline or on do not disturb don't count is moot. I show offline all the time, even on the forums here and yet, oh wow, I'm talking and playing. I know many, many players that show offline for many, many different reasons.
Fact is you don't know how many of those players are on everyday hopping, but one things for sure they do hop and there is more than just a few hundred. Chances are if they took the time to be in some group, they do it often.
@d3adst1ck said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@expsnailer Rare has already stated that alliance servers are a small percentage of players, and not an issue worth dealing with, so you've just confirmed that players hopping for alliance servers are a minority.
GG
AFAIK they only said that in relation to reaching Emissary rank #1 at the end of the month, not in general terms.
@lem0n-curry That might be, but even then the effect of alliance servers is small considering you can get into the top 25% for most ledgers by reaching grade 5 a few times.
And players grinding in alliance servers have zero effect on server hopping once they are set up since they don't tend to leave that server.
@d3adst1ck said in Stop Server Hoppers:
I never said this.
Sorry, that's on me. I got mixed with dlChief58 saying while we're talking about server connections:
... you think your dinky DayZ server is any comparison to the Azure servers Microsoft employs...
And my list from earlier is showing a behavioral "normalization" to the practice of hopping, ship-slot buying, and other methodologies. It shows that 6 months ago, this was still something that happened/occurred even then. Largest SoT streamer makes Server-hopping "normal" and "you get loot." Encouraging it with people who aren't always social, connected, part of these groups, etc.
@d3adst1ck said in Stop Server Hoppers:
@lem0n-curry That might be, but even then the effect of alliance servers is small considering you can get into the top 25% for most ledgers by reaching grade 5 a few times.
And players grinding in alliance servers have zero effect on server hopping once they are set up since they don't tend to leave that server.
How do you think they maintain 24/7 alliance servers. By hopping 24/7, some of these groups have thousands of players wanting to be in these reserved servers. Pluse serves have to reset at some point, so a server can't be held don't indefinitely. Last of all the ship count restrictions, thousands of players and only 20 player slots maybe 24, not sure if it 5 or 6 ships per server seeing alot of conflicting results on this information, but anyways even if it is 24 that's not gonna make thousands of players satisfied. Much like you don't want to wait in a timeout screen for hopping servers these player don't wanna wait to get in these servers. Thus they start hopping with a group of others wanting a server. By. The. Thousands. 😔
@amendelwyr said in Stop Server Hoppers:
And my list from earlier is showing a behavioral "normalization" to the practice of hopping, ship-slot buying, and other methodologies. It shows that 6 months ago, this was still something that happened/occurred even then. Largest SoT streamer makes Server-hopping "normal" and "you get loot." Encouraging it with people who aren't always social, connected, part of these groups, etc.
You can server hop as much as you want but unless you're able to beat the person with the loot, you can't just "get" it. Server hopping has been going forever, back when people hopped servers looking for forts because they only appeared every 3 hours.
There is no difference to the players on the server where the other player came from, only that they are there. Unless you can provide a reason that someone who hopped from a server is somehow different from one that just started playing for the day, I fail to see why it would be a problem.
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