Arena Tournament Scuttling.

They're taking a risk by loosing time so I think it's kinda fair.
What Rare could do is giving all the players planks, cannonballs and food in their inventory right from the start of the match.

@papy-pitch said in Arena Tournament Scuttling.:

They're taking a risk by loosing time so I think it's kinda fair.
What Rare could do is giving all the players planks, cannonballs and food in their inventory right from the start of the match.

As seen on tournament the risk was 0, 100% of ships that got first place scuttled at start.

It is a good strategy, that said it doesn’t feel like a good thing to keep around. Up until it’s fixed though use it smart plays.

A team really quit the tourney because of it?

@emerald-hyper

I like the option in the first reply, players start with full pockets. Gives you a bit more and takes away any reason to scuttle, issue here is if they ever want to introduce Brigs into Gally arena or if the crew isn’t full on players that team starts with less supplies.

Idk interesting fix to consider though

@kendo7008 a dit dans Arena Tournament Scuttling. :

@papy-pitch said in Arena Tournament Scuttling.:

They're taking a risk by loosing time so I think it's kinda fair.
What Rare could do is giving all the players planks, cannonballs and food in their inventory right from the start of the match.

As seen on tournament the risk was 0, 100% of ships that got first place scuttled at start.

They didn't win because of that. They clearly won because they played better than the other crews. Having more ressources doesn't make you better, it just opens a little more options but if the opponent is too strong, it's not 40 more cannonballs, 20 more planks and 20 more coconuts that will save you.

The winners also are Pace, Cobbobles, Beers and Chop... This is an excellent crew and they've managed very well during those rounds. Ressources aren't everything. Their own personnal skill made them won.

@papy-pitch said in Arena Tournament Scuttling.:

@kendo7008 a dit dans Arena Tournament Scuttling. :

@papy-pitch said in Arena Tournament Scuttling.:

They're taking a risk by loosing time so I think it's kinda fair.
What Rare could do is giving all the players planks, cannonballs and food in their inventory right from the start of the match.

As seen on tournament the risk was 0, 100% of ships that got first place scuttled at start.

They didn't win because of that. They clearly won because they played better than the other crews. Having more ressources doesn't make you better, it just opens a little more options but if the opponent is too strong, it's not 40 more cannonballs, 20 more planks and 20 more coconuts that will save you.

The winners also are Pace, Cobbobles, Beers and Chop... This is an excellent crew and they've managed very well during those rounds. Ressources aren't everything. Their own personnal skill made them won.

Well Sir if you payed so much attention, you maybe noticed the fact that the first arena only one team(Thunder Beards) scuttled, and won leaving Pace's team in second place.

Fact 1: more resources can make you win, yeah thats strategy that everyone can do.

Fact 2: Skill matters, Trashcan Elites start to scuttle at start from match 2 to the end and won every single game except the first one.

So you being a good observer can notice that more resources=better.

The point of this post is not discuss about who is better, is to prevent the scuttle practice at the beginning of every arena. People gonna start doing that for the same reason the player on tournament did.

Scuttle is a strategy, ok, im fine with that, BUT the fact of everybody doing that on every arena is stupid, and thats gonna happen bc people gonna copy other people just to have same supplys.

@hieroglyphe7
You fill your pockets first then scuttle then your boat spawns with full supplies again...

@kendo7008 a dit dans Arena Tournament Scuttling. :

Well Sir if you payed so much attention, you maybe noticed the fact that the first arena only one team(Thunder Beards) scuttled, and won leaving Pace's team in second place.

Actually the reason they lost the first round was because they spent too much time trying to join the fight and actually... Fight. They lost precious time by just sailing and not shooting, killing or hunting.

Fact 1: more resources can make you win, yeah thats strategy that everyone can do.

Well, yeah if we're talking about equal skill level.
While I agree that starting a match this way is not... How can I say it ? Well, "beautiful" or "appealing" ?
So while I agree that starting a match this way is not appealing, this is something everyone can do pretty easily. If someone doesn't want to do it, that's on them.

Fact 2: Skill matters, Trashcan Elites start to scuttle at start from match 2 to the end and won every single game except the first one.

Yup ! I just don't think that them having more ressources is the sole reason they won, especially since they weren't the only ones doing this at the start of the match.

The point of this post is not discuss about who is better, is to prevent the scuttle practice at the beginning of every arena. People gonna start doing that for the same reason the player on tournament did.

Scuttle is a strategy, ok, im fine with that, BUT the fact of everybody doing that on every arena is stupid, and thats gonna happen bc people gonna copy other people just to have same supplys.

I agree !

I'd be on board for the mechanic to be changed (maybe only possible after the first 3 minutes) or to incur a penalty of some description if used in Arena.

That said while it's in the game it's in the game and if it stays in then that's fine, the sample of 5 rounds is too small to be a definitive example of it being a 100% winning strategy but while it's there and if it matters that much I take the stance of if you can't beat them join them.

I don't think it was the sole reason for the outcome of the matches yesterday. Example; if you put me and my crew in there and allowed us to scuttle and banned it for everyone else we'd have still gotten absolutely rinsed in all likelihood :)

@xultanis-dragon It is an exploit. In a game mode that has been changed so that cannon hits can mean winning the game, having more cannonballs means extra points.

I think Pace is right, you should be able to go into negative points for scuttling.

I actually reacted towards that as well...... :P

@xultanis-dragon

Excellent take, was thinking about that myself the chest does seem like it should be more important

@xultanis-dragon This argument that cannonballs don't equal points is just absurd - it's specious. Do you get points for hitting a ship with cannonballs? If you have more cannonballs than another team, do you have the potential to get more points? The answer to both of these questions is yes. That's why it's an exploit. If you have more cannonballs, firebombs, chain shot, and blunder bombs, you have an advantage. That's just common sense.

You do not lose significant time at the beginning of the match by scuttling. The team that won the first round was the one who scuttled - and they were the only ones who did.

Just make a scuttle result in negative points. Problem fixed.

As for focusing on it: The whole game mode is ridiculous now, but this particular thread is about scuttling.

@d3adst1ck Flawed - you're misreading the stat. Every ship that took first place scuttled at the start, ergo 100% of ships that got first place scuttled at the start. If he'd stated that 100% of ships that scuttled got first place, you'd have a point... but that wasn't the stat.

@d3adst1ck No. because there can be only one winner. So, obviously, if everybody except one ship is scuttling, only one of the four who did will win a particular match. But, while it is true that only one ship can win, it’s irrelevant to this particular conversation except to say that the one ship that did win scuttled at the start.

@xultanis-dragon Did watch the match. All you can say is that almost everyone started using the exploit so that there would be no advantage. Doesn’t mean it isn’t an exploit... just means almost everyone used it.

Repeating the same debunked argument will not suddenly make it valid.

We aren’t making a correlation equals causation argument. Numbers don’t lie. More cannonballs equals the potential for more points. That’s the definition of an advantage. You can’t escape that.

@d3adst1ck At that point, everyone was scuttling, so no ship had the advantage of the exploit because everyone has used it.

@xultanis-dragon Live the dream. Numbers do not lie. Logically, if a ship has more cannonballs at the start, they have an advantage. Can really good players overcome someone using an exploit? Maybe, but this match gives no indication of that because with the exception of the crew that withdrew, after the first match everyone was doing it. But, just because good players are still good even if they are using an exploit, doesn’t make it less of an exploit.

The argument that, somehow, more cannons doesn’t give an advantage in a ship battle is so incredibly moronic it is no longer worth engaging with. Like I said, live the dream... live the dream in which that isn’t just true. I mean, if it doesn’t then why would Pace have said it’s stupid, but if everyone else is doing it...? Because it was a cool fad? Why do it when you think it shouldn’t be done if not because you don’t want to be at a disadvantage? Seriously. Wow! This is so obvious, it’s exhausting reading your posts.

@d3adst1ck What other ships?

@entspeak said in Arena Tournament Scuttling.:

@d3adst1ck No. because there can be only one winner. So, obviously, if everybody except one ship is scuttling, only one of the four who did will win a particular match. But, while it is true that only one ship can win, it’s irrelevant to this particular conversation except to say that the one ship that did win scuttled at the start.

He’s right it creates an inaccurate picture, let’s imagine that every boat scuttled at the start of every arena match ever like automatically without player input. Then of course a ship that scuttled would win that doesn’t mean however that scuttling caused the win.

Overall it’s a weird strat and I’m definitely not into it becoming meta but saying players are winning because they are scuttling is inaccurate

@cosmicglitch said in Arena Tournament Scuttling.:

@entspeak said in Arena Tournament Scuttling.:

@d3adst1ck No. because there can be only one winner. So, obviously, if everybody except one ship is scuttling, only one of the four who did will win a particular match. But, while it is true that only one ship can win, it’s irrelevant to this particular conversation except to say that the one ship that did win scuttled at the start.

He’s right it creates an inaccurate picture, let’s imagine that every boat scuttled at the start of every arena match ever like automatically without player input. Then of course a ship that scuttled would win that doesn’t mean however that scuttling caused the win.

Overall it’s a weird strat and I’m definitely not into it becoming meta but saying players are winning because they are scuttling is inaccurate

As I stated quite clearly and repeatedly, if everyone is exploiting, the advantage goes away. But, the fact remains that it provides an advantage to scuttle at the top of the match - that’s simple mathematics. There is a reason everyone else started doing it despite calling it stupid, and why Gothalion left. If you didn’t do it, you were going to be at a disadvantage. It’s an exploit, and the fix is to allow the points to go negative by the point value of the resources if you scuttle. And, if they can’t fix that before the end of the tournament, Sea of Champions should take that into consideration when tabulating the points.