I've gone days with out pvp. I've gone days where all there is pvp, and days that there was the perfect balance. Every day can be different. This is the pirates life. It's not always easy. Play, stick with it. Get better. Nothing is ever fun if it's just handed to you. Challenge yourself. Don't quit. Pirates die young man. Thats the way of the world.
What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.
@shagitall said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
I get it, PVP is a big part of this game...And I hate it.
I really want to love this game, but the PVP is killing me. While I understand and appreciate the PVP aspect, it is way too present and restrictive. My wife and I tried to play and we were very excited to start. We get a quest and jump aboard our little sloop. We examine the map and set sail. We arrive at our destination. Suddenly another ship appears. Somebody requests that we don't resist. We don't. They blast away at our little sloop and kill us. Great...
So we respawn and head to sea again. We reach our destination and start to explore. A ship pulls up and a crew blows us away without saying a word.
I'm starting to see a pattern here. And it's a pattern I'm not fond of.
So I log off and stop playing.
Now, I'm sure a lot of you reading this are going to criticize my ability or ridicule my sensitivities, but in my opinion that is terrible game experience, especially for a new player. Where is the incentive to play again or recommend this game to others if this is what happens every time I log in?
There needs to be some way to alter PVP to improve the in game experience. Because getting slaughtered and losing everything every time I log in is not fun. I know a lot of you get off on messing with noobs like me, but that type of activity is what drives new players away. The same thing happened to DayZ, once a vibrant interactive game, but then everybody turned to 'Kill On Site' strategies and it killed the player base.
You're playing a game of piracy.
When someone tells you not to resist and you comply? Is there no fight in you at all?
The best things in life are worth working for, and in this video game of piracy you're going to need to fight back!
You're entirely too soft, it's time to harden up, because online video games are a bloodthirsty place to be and that is the culture that both exists now, has existed since video games could be played on primitive LAN's and even P2P games in the modem.
Videogames have been classically competitive even back in the 80's when I got into them at the arcades, the Atari and the C64.
Competition is what motivates the typical gamer, even old guys like me.
I'll never talk trash, or insult you or berate you. Give me the opportunity however I'll send you directly to Davey Jones, loot your ship and move on with my mission to dominate the seas.
There are thousands more out there just like me, some are far better players, some are far worse, and some are right there with me in that we all enjoy PVP and PvE at the same time, that's what gives us the thrill of combat and the world to quest and explore.
If you're a PvE only kind of player, then there is something you need to do. Master the art of escape, and hyper diligence.
If you see a ship on the way too you, then pack up an make a move, get good at sailing and out run everyone.
Best of luck.
@the-sniperninja said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
Pirates who have near zero kills per day should be placed on a newbie server (or less bloodthirsty server). Paricularly lethal pirates who average maybe multiple kills per hour should be funneled into advanced servers where they face comparable competition.
If this were to happen, if you played in a pvp playstyle first you would be bumped into a 'bloodthirsty' server... at which point all you're doing is pvping.
I dont think this would be the result.
if you have bloodthirsty pirates who want to quest, they dont have to engage in PVP, they just have to evade detection if they want "quiet" missions (which is what everyone else is forced to do).
If a bloodthirsty pirate turns over a new leaf and stops rampaging, eventually their kill ratio levels off and they work their way into more peaceful tiers.
@arecbalrin said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
@khompewtur Match-making doesn't work even in games where the whole point is two teams of people killing each other. You end up with similar people playing together, but familiarity means every match is predictable. At the upper levels of play, they will default to 'the standard play' which is whatever statistically has the highest chance of winning. Where the players are all equal, all games are the same and the result is a 50/50 win-ratio.
So games often have to cheat by inserting or at least enabling inaccuracy and randomisation in match-making, so the wrong player in the right place makes things interesting. For SoT you would get the same problem EVE Online has: it has a shared space that every player is in, but a large number of safe areas. This means players are self-selecting with who they interact with and newbies leave the game because they get bored rather than because they got griefed.
There were many good suggestions for SoT but Rare ignored them.
Are you advocating a game where Pirate Legends reach competitive supremacy and operate in god mode relative to the rest of the player base? Exerting a 100% win ratio over the less experienced doesnt sound like a balanced game, it sounds more like a Craigslist ad seeking Dominant/Submissive roleplaying.
Matchmaking absolutely DOES work, and though it may not be perfect, it has a better effect than none at all. Just because having security cameras and guards doesnt end ALL shoplifting doesnt mean we scrap all security measures.
A 50/50 win ratio in which players are pushed to use the most competitive meta to retain the winning edge is absolutely what you want in a game.
The argument pirates would get bored when forced to use the most efficient tactics makes no sense, anyone still has the freedom to goof around or patronize other players, just dont expect a win out of it. Sounds like you expect a pirate to have the luxury to be a goof AND still walk away with all the treasure.
Im challenging the idea more "randomness" of skill levels makes for more interesting outcomes? How? A mismatch means the overmatched player is fed false-hope and the dominant player is playing with their food. Are blowouts in sports considered more interesting than tautly contested games?
Being constantly challenged and rising to those challenges is the hallmark of a true legend.
We started on day of release and quit playing about 5 weeks in due to this mentality and the vile vitriol of the excessively pro pvp playerbase.
Nothing has abated the issue. As you can see the persistent calls for pve only servers, safe zones etc still prevail and as usual prompt the bile of the pro pvp players.
It could be fixed but it won't be.
@shinten-rai I have no idea what I have said that you are responding to.
@Khompewtur And you're inventing opinions for me which I don't have and haven't expressed. I've explained what is wrong with match-making and you've chosen to ignore what I said in favour of pretending I said something else.
Match-making just segregates the player-base the same way different game modes do, it just uses other means. It doesn't do what you seem to imagine it does and people who do want to grief make a point of circumventing it, which they do successfully in every game that uses it. Everyone else is forced to min-max and the only changes in meta that occur are changes to a new standard play that is just as min-max.
For all the platitudes you're spouting about rising to challenges, you don't seem to get how any of this works. Games DO cheat and they DO match the 'wrong' players because it works and it does catch higher-tier players out when they come up against a 'scrub' who has a well-practicsed cheese that no one tries at the top.
Suggestions like match-making for SoT are not new. Many better suggestions were made but people who don't primarily focus on PvP seem incapable of understanding them.
@stratcat51 It attracts criticism because it is very poorly-thought out and because PvPers have got absolutely nothing in 10 months. Our suggestions were ignored in favour of an Arena mode that is primarily for the benefit of people who want to encounter less PvP in the open-world. That is what instance-based mini-games and arenas do to PvP in every single game where they get introduced.
You don't get exactly what you want, but the devs keep trying to cater to you the only way they realistically can without most PvPers being aware that they're being screwed over. PvEers have taken the game hostage and of course PvPers would like something back after being ignored this whole time.
Match-making doesn't work even in games where the whole point is two teams of people killing each other. You end up with similar people playing together, but familiarity means every match is predictable. At the upper levels of play, they will default to 'the standard play' which is whatever statistically has the highest chance of winning. Where the players are all equal, all games are the same and the result is a 50/50 win-ratio.
You just described the meta of the game. In which, the players default to the standard play which is the whatever gear set gives them the best advantage. That is a meta. MMR does not make a meta. The community surrounding the game and the in game items make the meta, not a match making system.
As it is right now, you have people who are playing the "meta" and being matched up with people who have no idea what a meta even is let alone be able to tell you what gear set is the best for winning in PvP. So not having a match making system in which a MMR or a hidden MMR would be able to match people up with the same skill level you are actual making the game at that point not a equal playing field.
So are you advocating for a not equal level playing field for the players and want a 10/90 win to lose ratio? Not trying to sound snarky there with that but that is pretty much how I read that post. That you don't like having a equal playing field and having a 50/50 win to lose ratio is boring to you.
@shinten-rai It's like what I actually have said has no bearing on you.
If you're going to also deny that match-making affects a game's meta, we have nothing to talk about because we don't agree on this fundamental point, so we can't agree on anything that derives from it. You have what a match-maker is nominally supposed to do confused with what a match-maker actually does regardless of what it is intended for.
Having made it clear already that I do not believe match-making systems do what they say(and in some cases are not actually designed to be perfect, otherwise they wouldn't work at all), you're not presenting a case for the opposite but simply saying I'm wrong. Ok, I'm convinced by that.
Not really.
@shinten-rai said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
@arecbalrin They don't. Go do some research.
Brought to you by the producers of 'The response to what I said proves the point I was making' and 'Even if you're right the way you said it discredits you' at the Academy of Internet Non-Discussion.
@arecbalrin Congratulations, you have done the same thing. Cheers. You have given nothing in any of your posts to back up whatever you have said either. You have literally said a MMR makes a meta and would be boring. That's all. You have said nothing else to back up your claim that a match making system would make the games meta different. You have access to all the same items.
And then when people reply to you and tell you that the in game meta has no bearing on whatever the match making is, cause having a match making system doesn't suddenly and violently change ALL THE ITEMS IN THE GAME. You just say it's like you aren't even listening. When you are failing to see that there is a meta in the game right now and there is no match making system. Howaboutthatthere.
Just go google it. I am not going to hand hold someone through basics of game development.
Cheers. Now I am not going to respond to you again in this thread.
@khompewtur I agree, but only for the Arena mode where you will always face resistance.
The adventure mode is about the question, what do we do about these other players near us?
If you can't win fights, try diplomacy.
@shinten-rai I have just told you what I thought. You've shown zero curiosity as to why I think it, so why would I bother trying to explain when you aren't listening? I'd be wasting both our time. I have literally NOT said what you have said I 'literally said', you seem utterly uninterested in what I've said. I can explain why I think match-making affects meta(which is not the same opinion you keep misrepresenting it as) but as we do not agree on several points that it relies on and you're not giving me much to work with, we'd get nowhere.
Not going to respond to me again? You haven't responded to me once yet.
@new-world-clogs I can say the same thing about the lonely sloop guys at the launch of Sea of Thieves they were very easy target for the galleon crews.
@genuine-heather I really like your opinion about what the game is about. A 2-3 years ago when RARE started to make the game I was very excited and I have the same mind as you about what the game will and should be. Too sad that not many people appreciate that. But I am glad to hear that your are and I believe there are more people like you in the game. :)
@je0rgie-p0rgie said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
@knifelife, I'd be honored to sail with you! I might be a bit busy the next couple of nights due to school but my crew and I sail pretty frequently, heck even if it's just me I'm always down to sail. Add me over Xbox Live and we'll set something up!
For some reason I never got this notification. 🤔
Fortunately happened to stumble across it as I was browsing. 😂
Ive also been pretty busy these past couple of weeks, so I’ll throw you a friend request and we can take it from there. :)I cant agree with you on this. The game allows you multi options to ensure you don't get blown away. This game allows you to be tactical and be aware of whats going on in the area. Having to use the wind, have a guy on, guard, keeping it real when it comes to getting treasure and getting out as fast as you can. When you start complaining about that it ruins the game for most. If your looking to set sail and just granny around with out a worry what fun is that? Find the right crew and learn from them. There are times I am sure all of us cant stand losing loot, or being blown away but that's the fun of the game. Kind of boring if you had nothing to worry about but AI.
@shagitall This game can be brutal. I've been playing since Alphas and still get owned semi regularly. I am of the "elite PC caste", although I also play XBone sometimes. Still argue this point regularly because I don't notice the disparity myself. Love playing on XBone but that's my partners machine when we play.
The learning curve is going to be changing your habits.
Keep a good eye out all the time you sail.
Regularly check in on your boat.
Hand in often.
Only use your anchor in an emergency. You can stop at an island without it and turn your boat for a quick sail drop and run.
As mentioned, if your server feels particularly hostile, move to a new server.
Join a clan/discord server and find some other players to play with, they can help you learn the ropes and get to know what you need to keep an eye out for. Essentially friends make this game better.There are more, check out the guides section of the forums, some great stuff there. Please don't give up based on a rough session. There is so much to love about this game. Hopefully double gunning will be sorted soon and that will make survival a little easier against those type of players too.
@galactic-geek said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
For those of you who are arguing over meta-this and matchmaking-that, I have a suggestion for you: stop endlessly arguing, and just go play the game!
I don't own the game any more and have no intention of coming back to it until Rare gives me some hope as a PvP-player. As it is, they have listened pretty much exclusively to people who hate that PvP happens in the open-world. Even though they don't get exactly what they want, every new feature Rare has introduced or talked about has been sculpted exactly to serve the needs of those people and not open-world PvP.
@arecbalrin said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
@galactic-geek said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
For those of you who are arguing over meta-this and matchmaking-that, I have a suggestion for you: stop endlessly arguing, and just go play the game!
I don't own the game any more and have no intention of coming back to it until Rare gives me some hope as a PvP-player. As it is, they have listened pretty much exclusively to people who hate that PvP happens in the open-world. Even though they don't get exactly what they want, every new feature Rare has introduced or talked about has been sculpted exactly to serve the needs of those people and not open-world PvP.
Um, PvP enhancements and Arena mode isn't enough for you?
@galactic-geek For the reasons I've very specifically laid out, the Arena mode is not a feature that is for benefit of PvPers, whether Rare intended it to be or not. The people most looking forward to it are people hoping that it will draw PvPers out of the open-world, which it likely will as there are no substantial extrinsic rewards for open-world PvP, but the Arena will have some.
I'm wondering what the PvP enhancements are that you mentioned.
@arecbalrin said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
I'm wondering what the PvP enhancements are that you mentioned.
I don't think Arena mode will draw out as many players as you might think... In any case, I was referring to the combat changes that Joe has already been publicly hinting at.
@galactic-geek Every online game with open-world PvP that introduced new modes, mini-games, arenas, separate from the open-world has harmed or outright killed PvP outside of those new features. You'd think at this point that is precisely the reason why they get introduced, the result is so predictable after 15 years.
I'm going to check what Joe said specifically, but I see people celebrating things like crossplay changes and an unspecified adjustment to 'double-gunning' and I'm immediately suspicious.
@arecbalrin said in What do you want me to do? PVP is too restrictive to enjoy.:
@shinten-rai I have no idea what I have said that you are responding to.
@Khompewtur And you're inventing opinions for me which I don't have and haven't expressed. I've explained what is wrong with match-making and you've chosen to ignore what I said in favour of pretending I said something else.
Match-making just segregates the player-base the same way different game modes do, it just uses other means. It doesn't do what you seem to imagine it does and people who do want to grief make a point of circumventing it, which they do successfully in every game that uses it. Everyone else is forced to min-max and the only changes in meta that occur are changes to a new standard play that is just as min-max.
For all the platitudes you're spouting about rising to challenges, you don't seem to get how any of this works. Games DO cheat and they DO match the 'wrong' players because it works and it does catch higher-tier players out when they come up against a 'scrub' who has a well-practicsed cheese that no one tries at the top.
Suggestions like match-making for SoT are not new. Many better suggestions were made but people who don't primarily focus on PvP seem incapable of understanding them.
arecbalwin - you keep asserting matchmaking doesnt work in any construct across any game, which I dont agree with. Perhaps examples can be cited where matchmaking was done in a flawed manner, but theoretical matchmaking means an achieved state of evenly balanced competition, an optimal state for gaming.
the PVP skill imbalance is a broken game mechanic that will continue to fester and act as barnacle drag on overall game participation rate. the only motives I could see for advocating not fixing it fall into two categories:
-Im an existing expert player, and i dont want matchmaking fixed because I'm exploiting the predatory game mechanic by preying on weaker players.
-Im a troll from a rival software or gaming platform, and have economic interest in preventing Real from improving.
I suspect most users who swear off PVP were initially intrigued by it, and want to participate, but have been turned off due to their complete ineffectiveness when matched against experts. a significant portion of this group will attrite.
Explain how any player would be able to circumvent a kill/per timeframe ratio?
-this would detect effective players from any platform, so an xbox player who has "figured it out" would still record a high lethality ratio.
-players with a "sure gambit" would be detected. they might know some secret techniques, but if they use it too frequently their kill ratio will rise.
kills/time measure how statistically any pirate represents as a hazard to their environment.
for crews you could average the score of all pirates joining together.
statistically there would be little discernable difference in the "hazard ratio" of a Ben-Kenobi (highly lethal dude, but just wants to be left in peace), vs. keystone cops (always aggressive but totally bumbling).
But to a pirate placed in the same seas with either, they represent environmental threats of equivalent lethality.
I want to point out that personally I'm super eager to participate in PVP, but I'm being totally boxed out of this game due to the near Terminator effectiveness of my opponents.
PVP is essentially a 1shot-1kill game so more than half my opportunities to "train n got Gud" are gone because I'm dead from an opponent who has crept up on me and dispatched my pirate before I even understand there's a threat.
This isn't helping me learn to be a better combatant, just improving my paranoia. the separation of classes happens here, the predators & the prey.
And then when I do manage to survive an engagement long enough to recognize I've entered mortal combat, the opposition shows such a dazzling demonstration of unreal marksmanship that I strongly suspect that some of the game aiming mechanism may not be human driven at all, and that image recognition bots might be in use.
I've been practicing the double gun, shooting for hours every day, its still a jumpy quick moving platform. but when I'm the target Im hit from these CRAZY shots. I was in a sloop the other day chased by a brig, with both boats racing along the ocean and the sloop like 3 or 4 boat lengths behind. While moving around, and just my head peeking over the top deck, I got 1-shot from full health, to dead (I know 1 shot is not enough to kill at range, so either it was a double-shot that was spaced so quick it felt like a single shot, or two pirates said "one.. two.. three. Go! and shot me at the exact same time).
Everyone wants to try PVP I expect, but a large portion are getting turned off when they realize there's no competitive space for them.
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