Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?

  • I just wanted to ask this question, hoping a developer or someone familiar with a statement from the developers might respond.

    When Rare or Microsoft decides not enough people are playing and pull the plug on the central server, what happens to this game?

    Sure, this might be a long way off. But regardless of wether this is 1 year or 20 years away, it'd be really nice to know if there is a plan to keep this game playable in the years to come.

    To those unfamiliar with the concept, an End-Of-Life plan looks like this:

    After the developer/publisher no longer wants to support the game, they:

    1. Release dedicated server software so players can host their own games
    2. Patch the game to run offline
    3. Release the source code. The fanbase can make their own server software from that.

    Unfortunately, dozens of games that rely on central servers decide on a different option:

    1. Go screw yourself, no one is ever playing this game again

    I'm worried about this because 4) is the most popular option among publishers. It's my opinion that Sea of Thieves is a truly unique and special game, and I'd hate to see it die forever. To have all the artwork, the music, the wide world dissapear forever and only be seen in video and screenshot form, would be a tragedy.

    Now of course, Sea of Thieves wouldn't be the same without other people playing it. But even Singleplayer would be better than absolutely nothing.

    Would it not objectively be wrong to pay for a product, then at some point have every copy of it destroyed?

    As Ross Scott once said, it's the difference between putting Grandpa in a wheelchair or shooting him in the head.

    So, has anyone heard anything about any intentions toward an End-Of-Life plan?

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  • I don't believe they've ever said anything about it, and I wouldn't expect them to anytime soon. Although I think they said something about wanting to look into private servers at some point down the road, and they recently said something about wanting to look into multi-ship groups which is a potentially related issue.

    I was expecting to just blow off your thread here and say you don't need to worry about that anytime soon, but you make a good point. Considering the community that's been built up and the genuine love from the devs though, I hope they will come up with a rough plan for this.

  • I think it's little bit tooooo late to take about this yet, I believe devs didn't say anything about this.

  • sea of thieves will live forever. none of this end of life talk.

  • @enticed-malice sagte in Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?:

    sea of thieves will live forever. none of this end of life talk.

    Until Microsoft decides that dedicating their gameservers to the Sea of Thieves game instances doesn't add up financially. You'd be shocked how quickly these things happen.

    Honestly? I don't think RARE will be allowed to (legally) release server software. BF2 for instance only survived because the community kept the servers running, but they have always had the option to rent/host their own servers. This is not possible with Sea of Thieves and it will not be added for the comfort of some gamers (money talks, unfortunately).

  • The game is too deeply embedded into the XBox Live system to be released to the wild I think. Like other online only games with no self-run server software (MMOs), it will die when they choose to shut it down.

  • Well think about it. The game is doing better than ever now not only because of the recent appearance of various streamers, but because the game has managed to pick itself up from a rough launch and now has reached a point where it can keep players engaged. If this momentum continues (that is, updates continue to be released) and Rare eventually gathers funds from microtransactions to keep it running, who's to say it won't last for many years?

    Imo if it comes to the point where they have to pull the plug, it will be because they can no longer squeeze anything else out of the game and you yourself will eventually have moved on. I say don't worry about this so early and enjoy it while you can. In fact, we're at a time of celebration when the game is doing better than ever before in twitch views, please don't ruin that for your own and others' sake!

    Think of it like the Sun: sure, it's known that it'll eventually die and destroy our planet in the process, but you most likely won't be alive by then, so why place that burden on your shoulders? You enjoy the relatively tiny amount of time you spend on this Earth and time will go on regardless. It's sad, but it's our reality and it certainly shouldn't bother you to keep that thought away from your mind.

  • @theassassinoath said in Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?:

    Well think about it. The game is doing better than ever now not only because of the recent appearance of various streamers, but because the game has managed to pick itself up from a rough launch and now has reached a point where it can keep players engaged. If this momentum continues (that is, updates continue to be released) and Rare eventually gathers funds from microtransactions to keep it running, who's to say it won't last for many years?

    Imo if it comes to the point where they have to pull the plug, it will be because they can no longer squeeze anything else out of the game and you yourself will eventually have moved on. I say don't worry about this so early and enjoy it while you can. In fact, we're at a time of celebration when the game is doing better than ever before in twitch views, please don't ruin that for your own and others' sake!

    Think of it like the Sun: sure, it's known that it'll eventually die and destroy our planet in the process, but you most likely won't be alive by then, so why place that burden on your shoulders? You enjoy the relatively tiny amount of time you spend on this Earth and time will go on regardless. It's sad, but it's our reality and it certainly shouldn't bother you to keep that thought away from your mind.

    Yet the big streamers that tried it for a couple days have already moved on since SOT really isn’t a shooter and it’s gunplay is too simplistic to be competitive.

    Rare and MS probably have a target number of concurrent players over a time period that they consider ‘still successful’. And probably SOT is still hitting those numbers.

    The problem with SOT and new players is that those new players quickly find out this game is nothing more than three rep faction npcs and barbie dressup cosmetic rewards. The core game is 80% sailing from point A to point A, 15% PvE, 5% PvP. You can swap the pve/pvp % at times. The game has very little holding power to the average shooter, rpg, mmo gamer.

    So, there certainly should be some thoughts behind closed doors at MS on what eol looks like for SoT. Remember MS is making a big push this year in Console and Windows gaming, I would think they want long-term successful games(enter Halo franchise for MS).

  • @uberkull said in Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?:

    @theassassinoath said in Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?:

    Well think about it. The game is doing better than ever now not only because of the recent appearance of various streamers, but because the game has managed to pick itself up from a rough launch and now has reached a point where it can keep players engaged. If this momentum continues (that is, updates continue to be released) and Rare eventually gathers funds from microtransactions to keep it running, who's to say it won't last for many years?

    Imo if it comes to the point where they have to pull the plug, it will be because they can no longer squeeze anything else out of the game and you yourself will eventually have moved on. I say don't worry about this so early and enjoy it while you can. In fact, we're at a time of celebration when the game is doing better than ever before in twitch views, please don't ruin that for your own and others' sake!

    Think of it like the Sun: sure, it's known that it'll eventually die and destroy our planet in the process, but you most likely won't be alive by then, so why place that burden on your shoulders? You enjoy the relatively tiny amount of time you spend on this Earth and time will go on regardless. It's sad, but it's our reality and it certainly shouldn't bother you to keep that thought away from your mind.

    Yet the big streamers that tried it for a couple days have already moved on since SOT really isn’t a shooter and it’s gunplay is too simplistic to be competitive.

    Incorrect. I don't follow streamers, and watching twitch bores me out of my mind, so I fact checked whether they had really moved on. As of the time of this post's writing, Ninja is playing SoT, Summit1g is playing SoT and Dr. Disrespect is playing Call of Duty. Just looking up the big names I've seen play in the past few days reveals that no, they have not moved on as you've said. Also, SoT just reached most viewership on twitch of all games, above even Fortnite. Your idea of gunplay being simplistic and not competitive enough is an opinion, and you're entitled to it.

    Rare and MS probably have a target number of concurrent players over a time period that they consider ‘still successful’. And probably SOT is still hitting those numbers.

    Right you are. Although there are no numbers for current players, the recent rise in popularity and the 50% discount the game has received will probably bring in tons of new players even if momentarily. There's also Game Pass subscribers.

    The problem with SOT and new players is that those new players quickly find out this game is nothing more than three rep faction npcs and barbie dressup cosmetic rewards. The core game is 80% sailing from point A to point A, 15% PvE, 5% PvP. You can swap the pve/pvp % at times. The game has very little holding power to the average shooter, rpg, mmo gamer.

    Right again! This game isn't for everyone, but you're wrong in assuming all new players will find little to it. Hell I was a new player and while voyages get extremely tiring and repetitive, they only get to that point after you reach Pirate Legend, which gave me more hours of gameplay than any game I've played ever before. My adventures were very memorable and I had very good times sailing with friends. Besides, the way you describe percentages/aspects of SoT could make any online game sound mediocre. If I were to describe it in your terms, is Overwatch not 50% PvP and 50% Barbie dress up? As a new player I saw nothing else in it so it didn't keep me engaged. Is Fortnite not 50% PvP, 45% Barbie dress up, 5% lore sprinkled in between updates? I saw nothing else in it when I played so I was not engaged. We all like the games we like for our own reasons, and reducing that to percentages is cutting right through the complexity of a game. Obviously the above mentioned games have more to them in that the experience is always made different by other players, and no two sessions will be the same: in some you will win and feel great; in others you might do terribly.

    So, there certainly should be some thoughts behind closed doors at MS on what eol looks like for SoT. Remember MS is making a big push this year in Console and Windows gaming, I would think they want long-term successful games(enter Halo franchise for MS).

    I'm sure they would, and I would hope so, but estimating the shelf life of a game is impossible. Player's interests vary and the competitive market of video games will draw players away from certain games and if the game fails to keep up to the demand and keep those players coming back, the game will die. My argument is: why worry about the end of life now of all moments? The game is more alive than ever, and will continue to be alive thanks to its extremely supportive and loyal community. I'm not saying the conversation shouldn't be had, but this is simply not the right time for that discussion. That is simply my opinion, which I'm entitled to as well.

  • @theassassinoath I do follow Twitch and am a full time streamer.

    Doc said his piece on SoT today, he’s moving on. Ninja is playing a re-run of his SoT play last night, he’s not live. And Summit is the only one staying with it...until the Division 2 drops.

    Summit makes the pvp pirating look easy. When other streamers try it and realize how much dead timemis involved in the sneak and wait tactic, they get bored and want the BR rush back.

    People should make their own judgement on SoT, but trying to emulate some streamers pvp gameplay won’t come easy.

  • @uberkull well on the twitch topic you're clearly the expert and the authority. As you can see I only know the barebones info for Twitch. Didn't even know you could stream live without actually sitting there. 😅

    I do agree on your points. I have no idea how Summit's type of gameplay of just sitting there got people hooked in the first place. Maybe you'd know about that?

    In all honesty I don't know if Sea of Thieves will be successful with streamers when the Arena drops if they're moving on already, but maybe that'll be more along the lines of what they're looking for...

  • @theassassinoath I do agree with your views, don’t get me wrong. And I do feel this game is unique and has it’s place.

    But the lack of any progression, and meaningless cosmetics as rewards, the longevity of the game is very questionable.

  • @uberkull no I get it too. The gameplay loop was very poorly devised. Like I said before, I can't do voyages anymore because I don't have the drive, nor the time, and honestly no reason. Even the shiny pirate legend cosmetics eventually become meaningless. Do give it a chance though. The devs have always said the meaning of this game will always be in the road, not the destination. The update after the Arena certainly sounds like it'll make the road a lot more exciting, and if the destination is what you're after, PLs will eventually get their share of love too. This game has a shelf life like all others, but the choices the devs make will either shorten or elongate that shelf life significantly. It's simply too early to tell when it might all end, let alone think about what will be done about it. I'm glad we could have a sensible debate matey. You don't get that a lot these days. Cheers!

  • @theassassinoath I was a beta and ‘day one patch’ player. I see you are a Pioneer and have been there since early development.

    I had 310 hours in from launch till Kraken event release. Then I left, came back for Meg...then that was enough.

    I decided to put in another 90 hours recently to finally get to PL. Cool, but now the Athena rep grind is a reality repeat of the awful 40 to 50 grind. And for what? 500k gold sails, 500k gold hull...cmon.

    Anyways, pretty early to talk EOL, but longevity is questionable.

    Thanks for being a Pioneer and helping guide the direction.

  • @uberkull I'm only worried about EoL if that EoL happens while I'm still invested.

    Nothing lasts forever. I love SoT but eventually even Rare will reach a point where SoT has nothing more to say.

    Will I still want more at that stage or will I be ok with letting the past live on in my memories?

    Who knows?

    Enjoy it while it is here to be enjoyed. We'll have plenty of time to look at tomorrow's problems with tomorrows eyes.

  • When MS new console eventually releases they will probably remaster SoT and re-release it.
    And after a few years they will shut down the servers on the Xbox one.
    That’s my guess anyway.

  • I feel it can be confidently said when the time comes, the servers will be shut down and that will be the end of the game. We can only hope that time is far off. Possible a sequel or remaster could be a thing someday too if MS sees money in it.

  • i have a dream.sea of thieves 2 on the next xbox console generation :)

  • @weedstar-deluxe I believe it will be like Minecraft. They will remaster and port it over to next hen consoles and probably upgrade the graphics ect... and just keep adding to it.

    I personally don’t see the logic in SoT2 because it will essentially be the same game anyway so I would rather then just continually add to there existing frame for many years to come. :)

  • @knifelife yes true, thought the same when i clicked on send

  • Battlefield 1943 on the xbox is 10 years old in July and still has multiple servers and 100’s of players online 24hrs a day 365.

    I wouldn't worry about SoT.

  • @aclassali sagte in Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?:

    Battlefield 1943 on the xbox is 10 years old in July and still has multiple servers and 100’s of players online 24hrs a day 365.

    I wouldn't worry about SoT.

    Calm down everybody, every online game will be available forever since Battlefield 1943, a game made by a different company that is not owned by Microsoft, maintains its servers.

  • Ummm, ok.

  • A lot has been said about this and there are examples of what happens.
    You are not the owner of content on their servers.

    Enjoy the seas (and other things in life) while you may, there is no guarantee of tomorrow.

  • Jezus , you startled me and almost brought tears in my eyes ...End of Life ...Oooh, i get the shivers again...i think that Rare loves all their franchises and this one is slowly growing out to one of their most popular ones...It may have known a slow start ,thanks to premature reviewers who barked in the same direction, but the game and it's playerbase keeps growing. New Pirates joins our Massive Fleet day after day , wich is good...

    Now, i too , am afraid that Microsoft owns Rare and their games they develop For Microsoft but letting Sea of Thieves die a silent death would be like shooting with a bazooka in their own Microsoft feet...

    Sea of Thieves may look like a Casual game but it has a serious depth that needs to be found in the emotions region...That's one of the reasons that this game has so much succes...You can talk in many games but how many people do speak from the first moment they see someone ?...

    Another thing i have a bit fate in is the fact that Mr Spencer likes how Rare works, he doesn't seem to interfere with how Mr Duncan runs his team and Mr Spencer knows that meddling would only interrupt that great vibe Rare has ...Their atmosphere is unique and another silent key to their succes...And if Mr Spencer would pull the plug , then i will ask all your help and raise a small army of 10.000 Pirates and walk to this man's doorstep...i wonder if he will have the guts to keep the plug unplugged then...

  • @spazthemax

    Frist off don't you think it's a bit to early to be discussing EOL plans. I know a lot of members always bring up the untimly death of this game ,but thats normally in the context of nobody wanting to play it. I think this is a bridge left to be crossed when we get to it. This game is on a 10 year plan it would make no sense for the devs to release a plan for the end of this game so early assuming they even tought about it. It's just bad optics. Even if they had good intentions to assure there player the message could be taking as a lack of faith in their own product. It would be a bad buisness decision.

    Now to address your given options.

    1. Releasing dedicated Servers Software - This is typically not a practice done due to Legal reason over ownership of IP. Microsoft owns all the rights to the servers and what runs on them. So to give out the software would not only jepordize there owner ship to the SoT IP but they would also be given away all the technology that there servers use to run the game. This would Lose Microsoft countless amounts of money in IP Rights so that not going to happen. This is also assuming that a 3rd party has the server inferstructure to support the game to begin with. It's not as simple as downloading and installing some software on a machine configured into a server.

    Now one possible option would be to allow private entities to rent server out space but they defintly wont let you host your own server.

    1. Patching the game to be played offline - This option is not aviable as it is simple not a game that can be run locally. It was never designed to do that as most of the core funtion of the game are handled by the server and not the client. For example all the islands are streamed in by the server if you were to try to play with out the server there would be no islands for you to land on all you would see is the playdoe mess that you somtimes see when the lag causes a delay that makes the island take to long to load in.
      Other things that wouldn't work are.

    Items loading in barrels

    Purchasing of quest

    Purchasing of cosmetics

    Skull fort and other events

    Players rep, stats, gold, ect.

    All these things all require the server. The client merely renders in the assets and loads them into the game engine when requested by the server. As the client does not house all these components. To do so the client would be multitudes larger and require exponationaly more resourses. It simply can't be done on a technical level.

    1. Giving out the Source Code - Once agian this falls under Legal IP Rights but i think it would be under Rare's Discretion as Microsoft is known to take more of a hands off approach in matter of development. Instead given the devs full creative control of there title and releasing source code to player for the purpose of community design and development may fall under that catorgory. But the dev so far do not seem to believe in this practice as they spent alot of time and resourses blocking 3rd party software. So mods are definitely out of the question which would include community made server software.

    2. This is less of an option and more of the general stance. Which is to say when a multiplayer game is dead it stays dead.

  • @l4chsfps said in Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?:

    @aclassali sagte in Does Sea of Thieves have an End Of Life plan?:

    Battlefield 1943 on the xbox is 10 years old in July and still has multiple servers and 100’s of players online 24hrs a day 365.

    I wouldn't worry about SoT.

    Calm down everybody, every online game will be available forever since Battlefield 1943, a game made by a different company that is not owned by Microsoft, maintains its servers.

    Please provide me with a list of every Xbox 360 AAA title released by a Microsoft owned studio that has had its servers shut down in the last 10 years.

  • @aclassali If you're interested in such a list then I suggest you do your work yourself. I'll help you start

    • Forza Motorsport 2 (made by Turn10 Studios, owned by... Microsoft)
    • many of the Kinect services
    • Project Spark (Server taken down 2 years after release)

    Microsoft, like every other company, will abandon game services that do not make sense to support financially.

  • You seem to enjoy making sarcastic comments to people for apparently no other reason but to appear superior.

    Please stop.

  • @aclassali There was no sarcasm at all. I'm dead serious. SoT servers will be going down as soon as Microsoft decides that there is no reason to kepp 'em online. Happened before, will happen again. Nothing sarcastic about it, right?

  • At this point in time I really hope SOT will be there, for ever.

    But, once upon a time, I had the same feeling about 'World of Warcraft', or even before that 'Rubies Of Eventide', and sure I would love to play some of those games again. But only for nostalgic reasons just to get 'the good old days' feeling back. I wounder if its the same with SOT. For now it's my number one game and I love it. SOT has almost everything that I ever dreamed of in it. So yes, I hope it will be there till the day I die.

    But...
    What if in the future there comes a pirate game 2.0 much like SOT. Just like SOT in a sandbox style with all it's freedom. A true MMORPG server with unlimited population. With an huge arsenal of procedural generated islands to be discovered on an empty map to start with, each with a rich and unique flora and fauna (like in 'No Mans Skye' planets are generated), witch gradually change in climate over distance. With player driven economic, and trade. And a deep and rich crafting system witch are the best items in game, which can be obtained by everybody if you have the money. And player/guild owned land/islands to protect for trade and resources.
    I wounder if I jumped over and put SOT on the shelf with my other nostalgic games.......

  • Before that will happen we'll see Sea of Thieves 2 ;)

  • in the beginning of this thread I said sot doesn't need an end of life plan. Now, after the latest decisions made by rare, it might be a good idea to have one.

  • @boldgame There is a game that meets alot of the things you listed in your comment.
    That game is called Pirates of the Burning Sea (Potbs).

    It is a kinda old game (it just marked its 11th birthday) but is still running. It is an MMORPG with a deep economical system, and player/society owned ports. Even port battles between the different nations/fractions. Different ships (like 30+) from level 1 to level 50. If you are looking for that kind of game, maybe Potbs is the thing for you.

    PS:
    Sorry for naming another game on these forums. I dont know if this is allowed or not. If not, please just delete this comment.

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