New hardcore mode — Wild Seas

Yes. More ways to earn high number gold. Even if it hard mode, we already play solo. :p

@drkorwind

Okay, I have a few questions:

• If this mode is oriented for hardcore players, ("no lifers") who have played countless hours, why would they need x3 on rep, gold, emissary? With over 500 million gold (there are many that have more than me!), my issue isn't finding ways to earn more, it's that I have no place to spend it. Many are already distinction 5 with all the factions (myself included), making x3 rep pointless. It's as if you're saying, "Here, play on a hardmode server that gives you even more things that are of no value to you."

• It seems as though this mode would only be favorable to sloops, since losing a crewmate (that can't return or be rezzed) can have a larger negative impact on brigs and galleons. Just kill one player, and you increase your chances of sinking that brig/galleon exponentially. Being required to spend five million gold (10 times the price) to repair a galleon to return to a server where gold and rep is pointless in the first place doesn't make sense, when hourglass lets you get right back to the fight with granted supplies as you PvP others towards that curse, and your crewmate returns if killed. Not even going to mention the fact that this feature alone will be heavily abused by trolls (kegging the ship, killing crewmates, etc.), forcing the owner to pay 5 million.

• With how many times I've disconnected, encountered black screens and had to restart my game, my game suddenly collapses to my desktop, high ping, etc. the part where you state, "If a player decides to return to the party, they'll return in the downed state in this location," does this "downed state" mean they're considered dead, unable to help the crew? If so, as of today's date, the current performance of the game wouldn't be fit for this new hardcore mode.

@europa4033

why would they need x3 on rep, gold, emissary?

Maybe they don't need it. It's just a description how this mode will differ in progression speed from High Seas and Safer Seas. Also, there are Pirate Profiles and smurfs.

And I don't think increased rewards will be a main reason to play this mode. I imagine the possible thrill of fighting to death with another crew, total annihilation of opponents and other similar 'toxic' but legal things will be the reason to play it.

Also I think it's possible to create a separate ledger for this mode, new commendations and etc.

It seems as though this mode would only be favorable to sloops

High risk — high reward. You should be a skilled player to fight a galleon while sailing a sloop. And we are assuming you would play against other highly skilled players. I expect general meta and player behaviour to change a lot in this mode. Additionally, sailing sloop means you have fewer chances to recover from mistake: one random keg explosion and both players are gone.

when hourglass lets you get right back to the fight with granted supplies as you PvP others towards that curse, and your crewmate returns if killed

I didn't mention Hourglass at all, because this is PvP mode which attract players who want just infinite naval battles without everything else. I talked above about 'toxic' actions like robbing others from their loot, sinking someone while they are doing some events... You can't do these things in Hourglass, and my idea is to siphon such players out of the High Seas to another mode.

Not even going to mention the fact that this feature alone will be heavily abused by trolls (kegging the ship, killing crewmates, etc.), forcing the owner to pay 5 million

No Open Crew. Only premades + Guild ships (and I wrote their moderation). Community will exclude bad actors.

does this "downed state" mean they're considered dead, unable to help the crew? If so, as of today's date, the current performance of the game wouldn't be fit for this new hardcore mode.

Yes. This is a valid complaint. And unfortunately, I don't have any real solution to this. Otherwise disconnecting will be abused by players.

@drkorwind

I'm just saying that this mode sounds incredibly frustrating and punishing to those who could really benefit from x3 gold and rep, namely, newer and casual players. Is that merchant rep really worth paying 5 million to repair your gally if/when you sink? Or the fact that one member died, leading to a very difficult and frustrating battle?

I really think that instead of veterans putting that much effort fighting against other ships for gold we can't spend and don't need or faction rep that's pointless and goes nowhere, they might as well save their efforts for hourglass and be rewarded (win or lose, with free supplies and with or without a crew) towards a goal they can earn, be it ghost/Skelly or gold curse.

In my opinion (and let me know if I'm wrong here), going thru that much tedium and punishment just to level up merchant, isn't worth it. Yeah, the community can exclude bad actors, but you having to pay 5 million if your galleon sinks just doesn't seem right all because someone decided to troll later.

P.S. PvP isn't toxic. Sinking a crew doing an activity, isn't toxic. You can sink any ship for any reason and that's not toxic. It's what other players say to you that's toxic in a lot of cases. If/when that happens, record and report. Rare doesn't tolerate toxicity, nor should anyone else.

@europa4033 I'm with you on this... im distinction 5 in everything... I need 0 rep 0 gold this would be pointless to play for most long time players and veterans..... oh yes let me start a brand new character over to regrind the same commedations that I spent years working on... no thank you. I enjoy having 1 pirate profile and 1 only. There are 9999 hg levels to earn for each faction and that is what I have left to work on for Rep im not starting over for some hardcore mode. What the game truly needs is to give more distinction levels to even get me to want to play for gold or treasure besides the commedations I haven't completed yet.

@europa4033

I'm just saying that this mode sounds incredibly frustrating and punishing to those who could really benefit from x3 gold

I don't think such players should play this mode. Current progression in High Seas is already pretty generous. Become pirate legend is much easier than at the release. I want this mode to have increased gains for two main reasons:

• Make a balanced system, when you earn more, but forced to pay in case of failure, which will force less skilled players out of this mode.
• Make it fair, when you risk more and earn more.

fact that one member died

Just to clarify, you can always res them.

I really think that instead of veterans putting that much effort fighting against other ships for gold we can't spend and don't need or faction rep that's pointless and goes nowhere, they might as well save their efforts for hourglass and be rewarded (win or lose, with free supplies and with or without a crew) towards a goal they can earn, be it ghost/Skelly or gold curse.

Well, this means they should not play this mode then. And it's ok.

In my opinion (and let me know if I'm wrong here), going thru that much tedium and punishment just to level up merchant, isn't worth it.

Again. I propose this mode not for leveling merchants or earning gold, but to gather the most competitive and 'toxic' players outside of High Seas. XP and gold are just a fair and good bonus for these players.

but you having to pay 5 million if your galleon sinks just doesn't seem right all because someone decided to troll later.

You play with your friends and one of them doing it? Well, you don't play with them in this mode anymore. You find someone in discord server and they are doing it? You block them and never play with them again, additionally such servers will introduce their own ban systems. I use some LFG servers for other games, and they work extremely well with removing griefers.

Sinking a crew doing an activity, isn't toxic. You can sink any ship for any reason and that's not toxic

I agree, this is why I used quotation marks. Take Arc Raiders and Marathon, for example. Killing and looting other players is an essential part of the game. But one game introduced behavior-based matchmaking and other not, this resulted in stratification of playerbase of the first game with somewhat chill servers and very aggressive, and in the other one sweat players made the game is less fun for the rest. I just don't think Arc Raiders' approach should be used in SoT and propose for straightforward and explicit way to separate playerbase.

Ofc, it's only my personal anecdotal experience, but I encounter friendly crews much less often than several years ago.

@Elmo6842
Maybe phrasing was bad, but I don't understand why you focus on rep and regrinding. As I explained, idea behind hardcore servers is to make lobbies more balanced. If you want to play as you are already playing this game, then it's simply not for you. Hardcore severs, well, by definition are hardcore, they'll provide different game experience, and I think there are players who would switch to these servers because of this experience and it'll make High Seas less hostile.

@drkorwind

It just seems a bit backwards to me, that those who could really benefit from it, you say you don't think they should play this mode, while those who've amassed a large amount of gold and rep over the years are the ones this is intended for?

Having a "balanced" system where we earn more, is the problem here, as gold is meaningless. Also, having a mode that forces players to "pay upon failure" was something the developers looked at when the game was in beta, where they thought about charging a price to return from the Ferry. That idea was scrapped. How is "risking more to earn more" fair, when players who don't have a lot of gold can't participate, and those who can don't care about gold or rep?

XP and gold aren't good incentives for players that are maxed out, and have too much gold than they know what to do with. Unlike other games, you can't kick players from your crew. Blocking them is all fine and dandy, until it comes time for you to pay the ridiculous price for reparing your ship, in order to do PvE to earn gold and rep you don't need. No one is going to pay 5 million to repair a ship.

"To gather the most competitive and 'toxic' players outside of High Seas." So, this mode is to get PvPers out of high seas? Not sure I understand what you mean by that, since the 'most competitive' players are usually in hourglass, and usually don't bother with or care about gold or faction rep. The 'toxic' ones are banned thanks to those who record and report, which leaves the x3 gold and rep that new/casual players would love to earn, left out, and pointless for everyone else.

Let new and casual players have these rewards instead, remove the gatekeeping that's pointless anyways for the 'most competitive' players. I mean, what are they going to do, a skull fort? Dig up an X? Chase a sloop around the entire map for a captain's chest?

@europa4033

Before answering to your specific points, I want to repeat my key takes:

• Older games tend to have more competitive and hostile playerbase, because chill players are driven out and there not so many of new players.
• Extraction games (SoT is very Extraction-like game) are very competitive by its own gamedesign and you need to prevent players from being constantly outperformed (check /r/Marathon to see an extreme case of it).
• Safer Seas works as a haven low-skilled players, which affects population distribution in High Seas and screws it for medium-skilled players.
• I propose a way to fix it with a separate mode for high-skilled players.

It just seems a bit backwards to me, that those who could really benefit from it, you say you don't think they should play this mode, while those who've amassed a large amount of gold and rep over the years are the ones this is intended for?

Yes. Current progression is good. You can easily get 50 ranks in 3 different factions.

Having a "balanced" system where we earn more, is the problem here, as gold is meaningless.

Gold is not meaningless in this mode, because you are forced to pay after the failure. It's balanced in a sense this mode will be occupied only by the crews which can sustain earn/lose ratio.

How is "risking more to earn more" fair, when players who don't have a lot of gold can't participate, and those who can don't care about gold or rep?

It's fair for the latter. Even if you are don't care about gold, it's fair to reward you for participating in a hardcore mode.

XP and gold aren't good incentives for players that are maxed out

It's not incentives. As I said, it's just a nice bonus.

in order to do PvE to earn gold and rep you don't need

Again. It's not for the gold and rep, it's for hardcore experience.

No one is going to pay 5 million to repair a ship.

I changed my mind. You pay gold to participate in this mode. Each player should pay it. Whole team wiped? You pay again.

So, this mode is to get PvPers out of high seas?

There is a difference between people who want just to PvP in somewhat equal and sanitized Hourglass and players who will chase you all across the map for several hours or sink zero cosmetics sloop just for fun.

Let new and casual players have these rewards instead

I frequently check twitch to see how new players navigate in this game. Earning gold and rep is super easy. They don't need any additional ways to do it. They generally do it slowly because they tend to ignore emissary system and farming events or dives and prefer to play just casually.

I mean, what are they going to do, a skull fort?

Yes, especially if there will be a new separate ledger for this mode.

Chase a sloop around the entire map for a captain's chest?

Yes. They already do it in High Seas.

@drkorwind said in New hardcore mode — Wild Seas:

@europa4033

It's fair for the latter. Even if you are don't care about gold, it's fair to reward you for participating in a hardcore mode.

Not exactly "rewarding" when it rewards you with meaningless currency you don't care about and rep that doesn't increase.

XP and gold aren't good incentives for players that are maxed out

It's not incentives. As I said, it's just a nice bonus.

A nice "bonus" that would be better appreciated by those who can use it. Not by those who have too much of it.

in order to do PvE to earn gold and rep you don't need

Again. It's not for the gold and rep, it's for hardcore experience.

Hardcore experience for earning gold? Earning rep? As you've already said, gold and rep is easy to earn already. Correct?

No one is going to pay 5 million to repair a ship.

I changed my mind. You pay gold to participate in this mode. Each player should pay it. Whole team wiped? You pay again.

So gatekeeping the best gold/rep for those who it doesn't mean anything for.

There is a difference between people who want just to PvP in somewhat equal and sanitized Hourglass and players who will chase you all across the map for several hours or sink zero cosmetics sloop just for fun.

...and they don't need this pointless 'hardcore mode' to do that.

I frequently check twitch to see how new players navigate in this game. Earning gold and rep is super easy. They don't need any additional ways to do it.

Not all new players are Twitch. If earning gold and rep is super easy, it makes this hardcore mode pointless.

Yes, especially if there will be a new separate ledger for this mode.

That's up to Rare to create, which they're currently not interested in doing.

Chase a sloop around the entire map for a captain's chest?

Yes. They already do it in High Seas.

And they'll continue doing it here, again, making this mode pointless, only more restrictive and punishing for worthless gold and rep.

I don't need gold. I don't need rep. Convince me to play this server.

I specifically prefer Sea of Thieves gameplay because my success isn't as strongly tied to staying alive as it is to staying afloat.

Players are not penalized if they choose to board and fight once they're skilled enough to keep their vessel relatively safe and within distance to their objective. Having no respawn would completely change the gameplay such that leaving your ship to fight on an island / fort / other ship would be super risky and ultimately you'll be bound to your ship as it provides cover, and you'll be in close proximity to your teammates for revives.

Ends up hurting the vibe. Hard no.