Why is the Sloop so tanky?

They were buffed a while back to give smaller crews faster respawns, and to make the sloop mast need 2 chain shots to bring down.

The consequence is that sloop vs sloop battles never end.

Sloops are really only tanky against other sloops.

Larger ships crewed by skilled players still sink sloops with relative ease.

Q: Why is the sloop so tanky?

A: Rare is trying to balance one ship for two different crew sizes, solos and duos.

I only play on sloop so I can’t say for sure whether or not all crew sizes have a super bucket right now but I know very well that 2 players sailing on a sloop have way to strong of a bucket as of s9.

It’s fine for solo sloopers but OP for duos. I bet you a duo sloop could probably out bucket having every single tier 2 hole in their sloop with the current bucket.

@scheneighnay said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

They were buffed a while back to give smaller crews faster respawns, and to make the sloop mast need 2 chain shots to bring down.

The consequence is that sloop vs sloop battles never end.

Maybe they should look into undoing the respawn timer they added to the Sloop or upping how fast they take on water

Yea sloops are the absolute best ship in the game, no competition. They also take on water slower than other vessels, are a smaller target, have the best maneuverability, stronger mast, quicker respawn time, better cannon barrel placement, and can go down wind in any sticky situation for quick get aways or baiting strats, with hardly any sail rigging input time.

If you have 4 players skilled on a galleon vs 2 players of the same skill on a sloop. With the same amount of supplies 8/10 times The Sloop WILL win.

@sandfeld2004 That Sloop did something wrong.

@grizzly2511 Imo , they should have a single person ship that has the abilities the current sloop does and nerf the sloop, its too cheezy.

So if you are actually playing solo you have your cushion.

That or make a new ship called a Dhow and it can be the new two person ship and make the sloop permanently a single person ship.

Something like this could be between the size of the sloop and the brig and take on some qualities of the two.

Just ideas. I think four ships could actually be interesting in this way, because rare buffed them with solos in mind!

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

Yea sloops are the absolute best ship in the game, no competition. They also take on water slower than other vessels, are a smaller target, have the best maneuverability, stronger mast, quicker respawn time, better cannon barrel placement, and can go down wind in any sticky situation for quick get aways or pull out strats, with hardly any sail rigging input time.

If you have 4 players skilled on a galleon vs 2 players of the same skill on a sloop. With the same amount of supplies 8/10 times The Sloop WILL win.

this already tell me that either you are deliberatly trying to mislead or realy can't see outside of your own thoughtbubble.

Let me go point by point:

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

They also take on water slower than other vessels

Because they have less people to bilge. A sloop can't have a dedicated bilge, since you only have 2 players to helm, cannon and bilge. Realisticly that means the bilge also has to do other duties, wich means the ship must be making water slower to compensate.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

are a smaller target

Partly true. The ship itself is ofcourse smaller then a brig or gally, but it's not like you can aim everywhere all the time and there is where the partly comes from.
If you broadside a brig or gally, you can't aim at the whole ship, but have to focus on the cannonline or otherwise face the deadly consequences. This means you have to shoot in the middle of the cannonline to knock everyone off the cannons. If you don't and leave one, they can shoot your cannonline (and they have more wiggleroom, since they only have 1 cannon to disable so they have a bigger range to hit to be fully effective). So in fact when in the broadside, the sloop has a smaller target to hit then the other way around. In a sloop vs. gally fight you even have the disadvantage that the gally can both shoot you of the cannon AND make holes that let you sink, while the sloop has can't do both at once, since it would only make a hole in the middle deck and that won't make the gally make water.

Those cannonlines are smaller then the sloop is, so then you have a smaller target then they have, since for them they have multiple people to shoot cannons. 1 Might need to attack the cannonline to prevent you from attacking their cannonline, but the other(s) can attack everywhere on the boat. So even though the ship itself might be smaller, often you have a bigger target.

When not seen from the broadside, the difference between a sloop and a brig is not that much. And a gally is actually smaller if you want to hit the lower deck.

And ofcourse the biggest difference is the amount of cannons you can fire. So even though the sloop (seen from the broadside) is a bit smaller, you have more cannons you can fire, the chance of hitting is bigger, since you have 2-4 times the amount of chances.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

have the best maneuverability

Partly, because the sloop is way slower and that too is maneuverability. And also you have the harpoon to help you turning, wich can significantly help overcome that part of the maneuverability for the brig or gally. So yes, but that advantage is way overstated.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

stronger mast

This is misleading, since you forgot to mention that a sloop only has 1 mast and the others have 2 or 3. In number of shots needed to demast, the sloop needs 2 chainshots, wich is the same as the brig (2) and less then the gally (3).
However: if you run out of chainshots, the problems start. Because the effect of a chainshot on a sloop has decreased a little (from 3 to 2 cannonballs of damage to masts), but with cannonballs you only need 3 to demast a sloop, 6 for a brig and 9 for a galleon. So it is only just as strong as long as you have chainshots.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

quicker respawn time

But less players. The respawn time is just to help compensate that a little. And for a sloop it is way more damaging to lose 1 person then for a brig or gally.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

better cannon barrel placement

Wich most of the time doesn't help at all, since brigs and galleons most of the time use cannonball crates or storage crates to place cannonballs close to the cannons. That completely takes away that advantage a sloop might have and turns it into a negative, since a sloop only has 1 cannon and brig and galleon multiple cannons per side.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

and can go down wind in any sticky situation for quick get aways or pull out strats, with hardly any sail rigging input time.

And here it is where i think you are deliberately trying to mislead, because:

• you know very well that it is only in that very precise direction and thus that the sloop will be slower in the rest.
• you know very well that that speed difference is very small and compared to a brig almost useless.
• you will run out of room to run eventually, because you will face an island or eventually the red sea.
• you know very well that the speed difference in favour of the other ships in every other direction is significantly more in their favour

So you can't run with a sloop (unless the brig or gally crew doesn't know what they are doing, but we were comparing same skilled crews, so that won't be the case then). Even if you run into the wind, the wind will chase eventually, so you have to make a turn. The speed increase the gally or especially the brig will get from 'cutting' that corner will be enough to gain on you. Eventually you will be overtaken if a brig or gally is determined to get you. You can only get away if they give up.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

If you have 4 players skilled on a galleon vs 2 players of the same skill on a sloop. With the same amount of supplies 8/10 times The Sloop WILL win.

Misleading and false. Misleiding because they won't have the same amount of supplies, since a galleon start with more then a sloop. And also if that starting amount is low enough that a galleon will (almost) run out, that galleon will only have extra manpower to bilge or board. But most of the time the galleon will already have sunk the sloop before they run out of supplies.
A sloop crew has to be significantly better to win against a galleon. A galleon crew that is at least decent and has crew management will even sink sloops with players that are individually better skilled as them. The sloop crews needs to be significantly better to stand a chance.

@Super87Ghost

Because they have less people to bilge. A sloop can't have a dedicated bilge, since you only have 2 players to helm, cannon and bilge. Realisticly that means the bilge also has to do other duties, wich means the ship must be making water slower to compensate.

Yea you have less people to bilge because it's a smaller ship, you shouldn't get your hand held because a galleon can have four people.
It's my opinon. Its needs tweaking.

Partly true. The ship itself is ofcourse smaller then a brig or gally, but it's not like you can aim everywhere all the time and there is where the partly comes from.

Not party true this is 110% true its smaller. lol Also you can aim almost everywhere because the turn radius and manuverability are better than all the other ships. LOL

If you broadside a brig or gally, you can't aim at the whole ship, but have to focus on the cannonline or otherwise face the deadly consequences. This means you have to shoot in the middle of the cannonline to knock everyone off the cannons. If you don't and leave one, they can shoot your cannonline (and they have more wiggleroom, since they only have 1 cannon to disable so they have a bigger range to hit to be fully effective). So in fact when in the broadside, the sloop has a smaller target to hit then the other way around. In a sloop vs. gally fight you even have the disadvantage that the gally can both shoot you of the cannon AND make holes that let you sink, while the sloop has can't do both at once, since it would only make a hole in the middle deck and that won't make the gally make water.

Meaning less if you have a brain and can maneuver a sloop properly. Litterally. I can maneuver the sloop to never be in that situation with those ships.

Partly, because the sloop is way slower and that too is maneuverability. And also you have the harpoon to help you turning, wich can significantly help overcome that part of the maneuverability for the brig or gally. So yes, but that advantage is way overstated.

Not partly it is literally the most maneuverable its not a debate, the sloop being slowing going against the wind is part of the strategy of maneuvering the sloop properly lol.

This is misleading, since you forgot to mention that a sloop only has 1 mast and the others have 2 or 3. In number of shots needed to demast, the sloop needs 2 chainshots, wich is the same as the brig (2) and less then the gally (3).

It's NOT misleading WE all know the sloop has one mast. What? That is the natural disadvantage of being on a smaller ship.

However: if you run out of chainshots, the problems start. Because the effect of a chainshot on a sloop has decreased a little (from 3 to 2 cannonballs of damage to masts), but with cannonballs you only need 3 to demast a sloop, 6 for a brig and 9 for a galleon. So it is only just as strong as long as you have chainshots.

The effect of any of these ships losing even 1 mast has its efffects quickly felt by the opposing team. No matter what, who ever get the first mast down is like the one who is losing. That goes for Sloop VS Galleon aswell, ive seen it hundreds of times.

But less players. The respawn time is just to help compensate that a little. And for a sloop it is way more damaging to lose 1 person then for a brig or gally.

I can agree with ya on this but it needs to be tweaked, its a bit too quick imo.

And here it is where i think you are deliberately trying to mislead, because:
Im not misleading anyone.

• you know very well that it is only in that very precise direction and thus that the sloop will be slower in the rest.

What are you even saying? You can turn quicker into that direction than any other ship. Checkering tactics can keep you in a favorable position on the sloop at all times if you know how to naval combat well.

• you know very well that that speed difference is very small and compared to a brig almost useless.

It's not useless to a brig, a brig cannot catch a sloop going against the wind. This is a fact.

• you will run out of room to run eventually, because you will face an island or eventually the red sea.

BRO have you not learned this strategy yet? If you focus on keepin leeway between you and your chaser knowing your distance to the red sea you can use the leeway for sailing back to the center of the map. Then by the time they catch up to you again, you go back with the dead wind with more space between you and red sea each time. ITs super EZ.

• you know very well that the speed difference in favour of the other ships in every other direction is significantly more in their favour

So you can't run with a sloop (unless the brig or gally crew doesn't know what they are doing, but we were comparing same skilled crews, so that won't be the case then). Even if you run into the wind, the wind will chase eventually, so you have to make a turn. The speed increase the gally or especially the brig will get from 'cutting' that corner will be enough to gain on you. Eventually you will be overtaken if a brig or gally is determined to get you. You can only get away if they give up.

Litterally false, my above statement proves it. You can run on a sloop forever and ever. You clearly don't actually know all the subtle sailing methods to battle navigation.

Misleading and false. Misleiding because they won't have the same amount of supplies, since a galleon start with more then a sloop. And also if that starting amount is low enough that a galleon will (almost) run out, that galleon will only have extra manpower to bilge or board. But most of the time the galleon will already have sunk the sloop before they run out of supplies.
A sloop crew has to be significantly better to win against a galleon. A galleon crew that is at least decent and has crew management will even sink sloops with players that are individually better skilled as them. The sloop crews needs to be significantly better to stand a chance.

Not misleading and not false........Galleons are trash.

@sandfeld2004 Having a galleon use all of its cannons at once almost never happens , only at the very beginning , very end or if the crew were stationary and defense rotating , and even then a sloop can slip up on your nose or stern, and even quicker if the galleon is parked at an island. Then you have another person dedicated to harpooning in time so the sloop doesn't get the slip on you.

@GiftstoLarinna

It’s fine for solo sloopers but OP for duos. I bet you a duo sloop could probably out bucket having every single tier 2 hole in their sloop with the current bucket.

Yea i agree totally, even that alone might fix something.

It's even crazier when you have these sloops that gather like 500+ of all materials , LIKE COME ON RARE! XD That ship can't even fit all those supplies! lol that's another thread.

@captaintibbz said in Why is the Sloop so tanky?:

If you have 4 players skilled on a galleon vs 2 players of the same skill on a sloop. With the same amount of supplies 8/10 times The Sloop WILL win.

Idk what game you have been playing, if you mean 'equal' as in both crews on the sloop/galleon are low skilled then sure, the sloop wins because the Galleon Bilge sucks and the flex can't grate bucket, The helm can't keep an angle and the Main Cannon role doesn't have an angle to apply pressure back.

But take two cracked sloop duos and 4 cracked players on a galleon, that is flipped where 9/10 the galleon wins by a far margin.
A bilge can almost out tank lower pressure from a sloops solo cannons.
If I can bilge against some of the best Galleon teams in Hourglass for a good amount of solo time, then the sloop's 1 cannon ain't going to do much unless my 3 crewmates above are doing absolutely nothing to gain pressure back or at least mitigate it.

The galleon can triple raise sails and literally rotate on its axis and have 2/3 players shoot non stop cannons on a sloop, demasting them without chainshots.
Having an extra cannon firepower that is hitting counts as a lot.

The sloops advantage would be keeping distance and having a big target to hit, that being said, hitting mid decks on a gally isn't going to result in anything unless you pair it with a ballastball + other curses.

EVEN if the sloop manages to out-angle a galleon, their firepower isn't much neither is hitting the same 3/4 holes on repeat going to sink a equally GOOD galleon crew.

I genuinely cannot remember for life of me the last time I sunk to a Gally vs Sloop outside of being ganged on by the whole server of 3 ships against my gally crew while shooting curses and having boarders 24/7 on ourship. Those battles are hella fun. But unless they are good crews, we normally steamroll each ships 1 by 1.
The Galleon is broken against sloops, but it is balanced when it comes to Galleon V Galleon imho.
(If all crews are equally good and not equally average where they are prone to make a lot of mistakes)

Obviously you are entitled to your own opinion, but having played with both & against the best players in the game, pretty much everyone at that level agrees with this statement.