Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders

@watgunner

And what happens when you fall or get knocked of your own ship which is filling up with water and either can't get a mermaid at all or you find yourself in 'merm hell'?

@watgunner a dit dans Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders :

The balance and sensibility around boarding ships via ships ladder is out of whack.
No ship anywhere is going to sail around with perma deployed ladders,... except currently in this game.
I would like to see ship rope ladders that are retractable and deployable.
The only time an enemy should be able to board your ship via ladder(s) is when you made a mistake leaving them deployed.
The enemy should be required to get their ship close enough to hop on if they wish to board otherwise.
This will result in more cannon fights for loot which should be the norm while underway.
It would vastly give smaller ship crews a better chance when engaging larger ship crews who normally can allow 1-2 people to hop off and swim over and board.
If people wish to "pirate" then dont make it so easy for them to do so... make them work for it.
I dont see any other imbalance when it comes to pvp.

people will ram more often, then blunder you over the side and laugh while you you hopelessly swim in the sea while your boat fills with water. you havent really made anything better for yourself, only introduced more problems.

if youre tired of the boarding meta you should be asking for a bucket nerf. it would:
a- make the boarders absence on his own ship riskier.
b- lessen the need to disrupt the bucketing/repair mechanic via boarding.

boarders would be of more value on their own ship firing cannons and helping bail/repair.

@watgunner

And how am I supposed to get my Athena keg next to your pet chest?

Funny you don't mention any of the other unrealistic metas in this fantasy pirate game like firing ones self from a cannon then your broken ankles healing within 30 seconds for example...

@watgunner a dit dans Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders :

@wagstr said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

@watgunner

And what happens when you fall or get knocked of your own ship which is filling up with water and either can't get a mermaid at all or you find yourself in 'merm hell'?

Thats too situational.. if your sails are down you arent going to catch up to it anyway.

If they want to be as unrealistic as to having them down all the time... they can be equally unrealistic in only allowing party or even alliance members climb it.

if you go overboard in this scenario, im not sailing your boat away from you. ill be doing everything i can to keep you from spawning a merm.

@watgunner

Thats too situational..

It really isn't, there is many situations that can get similar results. I've been knocked off by the Meg, pulled by the Kraken, and countlessly yeeted by a stray cannonball on a Sloop/Brig/Galleon. The ladder happens quite a lot due to their low sides. Is a solo player doomed to just watch their ship sink while in Kraken ink after getting yanked off? The same can be said if you are fighting the Meg, if you are fighting it, chances are your sails are raised. What if you get attacked by these beasts while fighting another ship?

We simultaneously have to deal with Blundies that add range power to knock people off. I've sword dashed people off edges as well as blew them off with a mega barrel. Is it now supposed to be impossible to recover from a Mega-Keg because I can't get back on my ship? Hell, is it now strategy to Harpoon players off their own ships? You take for granted your ability to get aboard your own ship.

A change like this utterly kills stealth in this game. That is something I personally wish to keep, it just adds depth to the game. Requiring only a ship to essentially sink a ship is just dull. I could certainly keg it, but what good is a kegging if I don't follow up by guarding said holes. The player is free to bail and patch uncontested while I just twiddle my thumbs in the water.

Adjustable ladders just breaks more than it fixes. A bucket/repair nerf is much more easier to implement without breaking the game.

@watgunner

No ship anywhere is going to sail around with perma deployed ladders,... except currently in this game.

This is a videogame, not real life. It's a cartoon game with real life aspects, and this is not one of them.

The only time an enemy should be able to board your ship via ladder(s) is when you made a mistake leaving them deployed.
The enemy should be required to get their ship close enough to hop on if they wish to board otherwise.
This will result in more cannon fights for loot which should be the norm while underway.
It would vastly give smaller ship crews a better chance when engaging larger ship crews who normally can allow 1-2 people to hop off and swim over and board.

Why should cannon fights and SvS (Ship vs ship) battles be the norm? If anything making the game an SvS battle where you are required to use cannons in order to sink someone would actually damage the solo player's chances of winning. As 4 cannons vs 1 is impossible to win against, and one of the big reasons as to why people can do it as of now is because the other crew is busy trying to board you and not on cannons firing at you. If you prevented people from boarding other ships it would heavily encourage firefights, so your argument of, "It would make it easier for smaller ships," Is wrong because if there's no incentive to jump off of your boat to go for a board attempt, leaving your boat with less people to cannon, then the sloop will have an even harder time winning because there will always be at least 3 people on the cannons.

If people wish to "pirate" then dont make it so easy for them to do so... make them work for it.

I agree, so kill them when they try to board you. You're thinking of them boarding as a curse when if you play it right, it can be a blessing in disguise. First off, always keep your boat moving faster than a player can swim, so that if they do want to board you they will have to cannon in front of your boat and if they miss the ladder there will be no swimming back and grabbing, if they miss they miss. Secondly, once the threat is gone and you've either killed them or they've missed, the galleon that once had 3 people on cannons now only has 1, maybe 2, making it much more manageable to beat them in a cannon fight. You should watch Beardageddon on youtube / twitch. He make a lot of solo/duo sloop gameplay videos and is very good at taking down galleons solo with only cannons, no boarding.

I agree that this game should be mainly an SvS game, because it is. The reason why it gravitates towards boarding other players and spawnkilling them until you can cannon them to kill them, is because most players suck at this game and allow it to happen. It is much faster and more resource efficient if you only have to use 5 cannons to kill someone and have someone on their boat keeping the buckets and repairs from happening. Instead of never boarding and using more than 50 cannonballs because the other ship can keep bailing and repairing. I've seen and played at the highest levels of arena, and there is little to no boarding going on, and when people DO board, they are killed instantly and nothing happens.

When you end up fighting good crews that don't let boarders on for free, the game becomes an SvS game and is very dependent on having better cannons and a good driver. However most people suck at this game and suck at defending ladders, so people are able to get on for free, anchor, then kill everyone and keep spawnkilling until their boat can come around and finish them off with cannons. If people were better at guarding ladders in this game then it would definitely be what you want, and SvS game where cannons come first. This game has the tools and resources necessary to make that happen, the problem is that because most players suck at the game, SvS battles rarely happen because boarding is much faster and resource efficient.

I dont see any other imbalance when it comes to pvp.

Like I said above, the downside to removing the boarding aspect of the game means that Sea of Thieves will be more of a cannon and SvS game, meaning that using a sloop and winning is near impossible since people will ALWAYS be on cannons ready to kill you, as there's no incentive to try and board. Boarding is very easy to combat, just wait for them to come up and then blunderbuss them in the face, worst case scenario they don't die but get knocked off the ship and you can finish them off because they're 5 HP. Even better, you can use blunderbombs to kill them, making it even easier to defend your ship from attackers.

And if we're talking about imbalances or downsides let's not only talk about PvP, let's talk about other things as well. If you are doing voyages and while sailing around you raise your ladders, then go to an island to dig up some chests and forget to lower your ladders back down, then what now? You now have to swim for at least 20 seconds to get a mermaid, and if you see a galleon rolling up on you then you won't be able to get back to your ship in time to lower sails and drive away before they are in cannon range. Another point of why adding retractable ladders is bad is because a sloop or brig with all crewmembers on board can bail water from 10 tier 3 holes and still survive. Meaning that at LEAST 20 cannons were used to make those 10 tier 3 holes, and they still survived and live to fight another day, meaning that your cannon prowess won't matter because they can just sail away without being boarded and keep bucketing their boat to come back for another attempt.

Adding retractable ladders would make fights last a LOT longer, and not in a good way. It removes the threat of being boarded and allows you to do whatever you want without any sort of fear of being boarded and getting anchored. Like I just said in the previous paragraph, if you weren't able to board then it would allow a sloop who just got hit by 40+ cannonballs to survive and be on their way to come back from the brink of death, because they can just bail water and survive. People who are good at watching ladders (which isn't a hard thing to do) make it near impossible to board without first cannoning them. If you tried to board a ship that has people constantly ladder guarding then you are required to put some bottom holes in them to prevent them from being able to watch ladders 24/7, meaning that the SvS battle comes first.

The developers are never going to add retractable ladders, so if you want to have more fun in the game and stop getting rolled by 4 man galleons, learn how to prevent yourself from being boarded. Listen / watch for the mermaid, listen for swimming in the water, listen for the boarding sound when they board your ladder and you will easily be able to kill them. Watch Beardageddon and see how he plays whenever people are trying to board his boat and how he kills them. Ladder guarding isn't a hard thing to do, so you don't need to give the ladder guarders more advantages since they already have all the advantages necessary to easily kill boarders 99% of the time.

@watgunner said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

@bugaboo-bill said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

i vote for having the possibility to lower the lader from the water, but it would take time, like pull 3 times the lever of the water barrel below deck and make noise.

people who fell off their own ship deserve to have a problem, mermaids will help, the crew will help.

Make boarding a skill - shoot yourself over or maneuver properly to board.
Ramming people arent a threat to me!

Yes, boarding should be a skill. And great idea on the lever from water.. and with unmistakable noise. That would help on them over zealous moments when whole ship crew has a Leroy Jenkins moment and jump ashore at same time without putting ladder down first.

Boarding is a great skill when the other crew are remotely vigilant, it's a great part of the game.

@wagstr

Boarding is a great skill when the other crew are remotely vigilant, it's a great part of the game.

It simultaneously becomes next to impossible to board a well guarded ship without actually doing a ram, but rams are stupid and provide little to no strategic advantage that you simultaneously give to your opponent. Also getting a lucky cannon-board, it takes seriously long time to perfect that, which is hardly accessible to most people. The more you play the game the more you realize that repelling boarders is quite easy. I mean look at that guy on the ladder, what exactly can he do when he curves over the top only to have the end of a barrel pointed at them? Its not as if they can fight back while climbing either.

If we are going to sit here and lecture how things should be a skill, then one should learn the skill of defending your ladders. My crew rarely gets boarded, because we grasp how to properly defend from boarders. Only bad crews get boarded, and in my experience, only bad crews make OP's suggestion.

@watgunner @Bugaboo-Bill

Yes, boarding should be a skill.

Make boarding a skill - shoot yourself over or maneuver properly to board.

Boarding is a skill. If there is someone guarding ladders and you can't aim correctly and get good shots off then you will die before you reach the top. In this video I board a ship where 2 people who are pretty decent are guarding ladders, I'm able to use my SKILL at boarding to 2 tap the first ladder guarder, and even though I outplay the 1st person, I still die to the second and die.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa9YRCTyE3Q&feature=youtu.be

The act of grabbing a ladder and climbing doesn't require skill, but killing the person who is guarding the ladder does. And even though I completely outplayed the first guy, I still died because guarding ladders isn't a hard thing to do. Boarding does require skill, the problem is the people who are guarding the ladders, or should I say, "Aren't." The amount of times that I've boarded a ship after swimming up to it for 5 seconds with mermaid popping up and I board with no resistance even though there are 4 people on the boat is astounding. We don't need to nerf boarding ladders, we need to get the people who are guarding ladders to become better. It is very easy to kill someone on the ladder, just because most people suck at it doesn't mean that it's OP.

That's like being on a 4 man galleon, and having only 1 person on cannons. Then complaining and saying, "The galleon needs to have a faster shoot time and more damage done with their cannonballs, because when I'm shooting solo against a brig they can shoot more than me." That's a stupid argument because you have tools and resources to use, put more people on cannons. That's why the galleon has 4 cannons and that's why it has 4 people, so that you can shoot with multiple people. Same thing with guarding ladders, just because you don't hear the cannonshot, see the mermaid, hear the mermaid, hear the swimming, or hear the unmistakable ladder board sound effect, doesn't mean that boarding is OP, it means that the ladder guarders aren't doing their job correctly and suck.

i think the people that ask for retractable ladders (and there have been many) arent finding it difficult to defend the ladders, they are simply oblivious to the fact they are even being boarded. i will bet they have no idea they have been boarded until the are at the wheel getting shot in the back while hearing their anchor fall.

@watgunner

Retractable ladders would make it that nobody ever lowers one side if any at all, mermaids, harpoons and rowboats can get you on a ship or even death. The whole concept is based around that there is a limited amount of spots to get aboard a ship and that they are easily defended. Yet there are multiple ones, so you still have a chance as a boarder! If I have retractable ladders, why would I ever have both down?

Balanced.... you say, no you are seeking an imbalance because you are failing at simply guarding your ladders, killing them before they reach the anchor or because you are simply undermanned. All ships including the sloop have enough people to have someone attempt to board enemy vessels, unless they are not running a full crew. If you are not running a full crew, you are choosing to not have the full capability of your vessel unlocked and it means you have to compensate by being better!

This is coming from someone that picks fights when they are solo and want to be somewhere, I don't care if you are a galleon, brigantine or sloop. If I want to be at an island I am going to that island, you are parked there and doing something... I will claim it by force. It is more difficult to fight alone, it is more frustrating to fight alone, a single mistake can mean your demise and yet I can force fights into naval combat, I can if the crew I am facing isn't great even let my ship go in circles and board myself!

If you want retractable ladders, Rare will give us another means to get on the ship and trust me if that happens it will be harder to defend yourself against as it isn't limited to predictable spots. Think about the much asked for boarding axe or grappling hook.

If you want to be an undermanned crew size / a solo... #BeMorePirate and outclass your opponents. Want a larger crew, the option is yours to pick it! If you want to have a naval battle, simply guard your ladders or learn to sail properly... it is a skill and an option. All the tools are given to you to achieve this.

@tehstepford said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

i think the people that ask for retractable ladders (and there have been many) arent finding it difficult to defend the ladders, they are simply oblivious to the fact they are even being boarded. i will bet they have no idea they have been boarded until the are at the wheel getting shot in the back while hearing their anchor fall.

I'm completely deaf in one ear so can attest to that sometimes!

@tehstepford

i think the people that ask for retractable ladders (and there have been many) arent finding it difficult to defend the ladders, they are simply oblivious to the fact they are even being boarded.

Not to just argue semantics, but knowing when you are getting boarded is an equal part of defending ladders. Its 2 parts, first the actual practice of removing them off ladder, then the other part of knowing when they will be there. Anybody can shoot someone off a ladder, but what defines the good from the bad crews is knowing the situations someone will board before they even touch that ladder. Those range from not only visibly seeing them but seeing the mermaid, spotting the rowboat, seeing the cannon-shot, witnessing them sword dash from their ship, and hearing the tell tale splash audio queue.

@nabberwar a dit dans Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders :

@tehstepford

i think the people that ask for retractable ladders (and there have been many) arent finding it difficult to defend the ladders, they are simply oblivious to the fact they are even being boarded.

Not to just argue semantics, but knowing when you are getting boarded is an equal part of defending ladders. Its 2 parts, first the actual practice of removing them off ladder, then the other part of knowing when they will be there. Anybody can shoot someone off a ladder, but what defines the good from the bad crews is knowing the situations someone will board before they even touch that ladder. Those range from not only visibly seeing them but seeing the mermaid, spotting the rowboat, seeing the cannon-shot, witnessing them sword dash from their ship, and hearing the tell tale splash audio queue.

youre preaching to the choir, trust me. we both know full well who the people are asking for retractable ladders!

@watgunner said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

@bugaboo-bill said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

i vote for having the possibility to lower the lader from the water, but it would take time, like pull 3 times the lever of the water barrel below deck and make noise.

people who fell off their own ship deserve to have a problem, mermaids will help, the crew will help.

Make boarding a skill - shoot yourself over or maneuver properly to board.
Ramming people arent a threat to me!

Yes, boarding should be a skill. And great idea on the lever from water.. and with unmistakable noise. That would help on them over zealous moments when whole ship crew has a Leroy Jenkins moment and jump ashore at same time without putting ladder down first. Else you just got outplayed!

Boarding is a skill, it is you that fails to make it difficult on them. If you get boarded it is more a reflection on either their skill or the lack of yours... board attempts should be met with either a naval positioning to keep them splashing, a full stop at the ladder or a quick death after they hit the deck.

@bugaboo-bill

i can makro this

Good for you.

these quick tapping on the ladder is in no way good if you ask me and not much skill compared to a boarding shot.

Your first argument was that boarding requires no skill, so I made a video showing you that it does require skill, and then you change your argument to, "Oh... Well... It doesn't take as much skill as a boarding shot," Not only that but you didn't respond to any of my arguments I put forth. So stop trying to pretend that you care about change and talking with people when you don't put in the effort to have a conversation. You don't have the mental capacity to have a conversation where we can actually talk about things and I answer your questions and you answer mine. Because you only look at irrelevant points or only respond to arguments that you think you can win without taking into account anything else.

For people reading this, I've tried to have a conversation with Bugaboo Bill at least 4 times all across the forums, and all 4 times he ends up repeating the same arguments and not bringing up any new ones. He doesn't respond to most of my questions or arguments that I put forth even though I answer every single one of his. He only argues points that he thinks he can win even after I've already addressed the same point previously. And he ends up just something like, "Well, this is my opinion" And doesn't give any valid points as to WHY, or doesn't defend his opinion when I question it.

@bugaboo-bill

Famous Dex - "Hoes Mad" (Official Music Video)

@everyone else

If you want to talk with me about WHY I won't argue with Bugaboo Bill feel free to @ me or DM me. If you look at the first post I made in this thread you can see I state my points pretty well and respond to all of OP's arguments and questions. I'm not unjust, and even if someone doesn't to respond to EVERYTHING I say I'll still have a conversation with them and try to talk with them so that we can come to an agreement on something. I have many reasons for why I just troll Bugaboo now and don't give him any respect anymore.

I'm 44 btw, a little respect, thanks!

I'm from the south, I'll give you the same respect you give me. Just because you're older doesn't mean that you will have my respect always and forever.

@WATGunner

You might think my earlier 'keg next to the pet chest' comment was trolling so I'll give you some context.

I solo sloop a lot. I get chased sometimes and enjoy it. I'll often stop at a fort and pick up a keg or two in anticipation of this depending on how much valuable loot I have onboard. Risk vs reward..

If I can't outsail them or run out of sea i'll point into open water, drop of the back with a keg and try to board and pop it below deck for them as a prezzie. Sometimes works out, sometimes not.

They are chasing me to steal, sink and kill, I'm way outnumbered and it's one of the best defences I have. Remove the ability to board and it makes life a whole lot harder and less fair..

Wait until this dude finds out that you can shoot yourself out of cannons, and use a special sword technique to jump incredible distances that are otherwise unachievable by any known life form.

@bugaboo-bill said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

@cotu42 sagte in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

@watgunner said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

@bugaboo-bill said in Deployable and Retractable Rope Ladders:

i vote for having the possibility to lower the lader from the water, but it would take time, like pull 3 times the lever of the water barrel below deck and make noise.

people who fell off their own ship deserve to have a problem, mermaids will help, the crew will help.

Make boarding a skill - shoot yourself over or maneuver properly to board.
Ramming people arent a threat to me!

Yes, boarding should be a skill. And great idea on the lever from water.. and with unmistakable noise. That would help on them over zealous moments when whole ship crew has a Leroy Jenkins moment and jump ashore at same time without putting ladder down first. Else you just got outplayed!

Boarding is a skill, it is you that fails to make it difficult on them. If you get boarded it is more a reflection on either their skill or the lack of yours... board attempts should be met with either a naval positioning to keep them splashing, a full stop at the ladder or a quick death after they hit the deck.

@CotU42 again mate, stop suggesting i have problems shooting someone at the ladder.

so tiresome to argue with some of you, because all you do is prejudice someone with wrong assumptions because of another meaning.

Are you not the one claiming that boarding is not skillful?

• Positioning yourself in the water by means of jumping off, naval positioning or cannon alignment in order to grab the ladder is not skilled?
• Able to bypass the people guarding the ladders is not a skill?

The removal of options, removing elements of skill on both ends: Defending your ladders and boarding by means of a ladder is not an improvement of the game.

There is skill in boarding, whether you like it or not. I never stated that you don't may I add.. I simply stated that boarding is also a skill and it is countered by a crews own skill. That the game doesn't need to remove those skill elements, because one fails at it. If you are good enough to defend... the retractable ladders are not required.

Having people in the water is a negative aspect in naval combat, it is something I abuse a lot when I am fighting larger crews. The moment they are in the water the odds on the ship even out more, as they have less people on the cannons, below deck, at the sails, at the steering wheel...

You still want the game to limit us to achieve the feat of boarding a moving ship by the ladders. How often do you go board? How often do you manage to land a shot straight onto their deck? How often do you manage to get on their ship - meaning grabbing the ladder, getting on the deck and anchor them and provide enough time for your ship to land at least a full salvo of cannons on them? I try often to land a shot straight onto their deck, it is by far the best way to board... yet somehow it is really really hard and has the benefit that it is nearly impossible to counter. I thought you were for casual players, not only die-hard tactics and skill requirements? Where is that element when it comes to boarding... just because you don't like it lets remove the lesser option that is more casual friendly.

You lay judgement on a tactic because you don't like it, while frankly it is not always the best tactic that one can use. If a crew is good enough to guard their ladders, the attempts to board without cannon cover is actually a detriment to your crew and benefits the crew that focuses on naval combat.

You have such double standards, you claim to like the easier simpler skill elements of the game as it makes it more casual friendly... unless it is a part of the game you don't like I guess. Then you want the hardcore skill gap options only!

@bugaboo-bill

ah ratneck - no respect from cologne

Really Bill? I get it, forums can get heated, but if you are going to demand respect you should display it first. Comments like that are just uncalled for.

@bugaboo-bill

@nabberwar i dont have the mental capacity - sorry orange neck gets censored, dont know why its not an insult its translated as a farmer from south USA.
So i used ratneck as it sounded similar - i'm german you know

I'm aware your German, and I knew exactly what you were trying to actually say. For a person whose native language isn't English you are acting way too confident on your assertion of what that name means and implies.

It isn't just a name for farmers in the south, it is in fact an insult. Its a term that is mostly used in a condescending way. There is also connotations with that name pertaining to low class, oafishness, racism, and being a laut. There is no question its a derogatory term. It is also synonymous with "Caucasion (the color) Trash" "(Hill to die on)Billy" While certainly some call themselves that, but its usually within communities as a self deprecating joke. Its one of those "Only we can call ourselves that." While it certainly isn't the worst someone can be called, still doesn't change the fact you are throwing insults with the expectations of still receiving respect.