Brig Discussion - Suggestions on How to Change the Brig

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    Hello everyone,

    We've all seen the feedback and negativity surrounding the brig and how it's being used, however most is a lot of criticism with no constructive elements or ideas for Rare to build off of.

    Now in this thread, we're not going to discuss what is wrong with it and why, however we are going to provide ideas on how to fix the issues at hand.

    Rare is fully aware that the brig is not being used the way that they had originally envisioned it to be used and is causing a lot of concern within the community and game, lets move past this and focus on fixing it for the future.

    Would you like it removed altogether and have no way of eliminating a player that you don't want in your crew? Would you like a 'vote to kick' system that would just remove said person from the crew immediately? Will 3-man crew selection work to fix the idea?

    Please be constructive and think about what can help fix the issue and not simply state that there is an issue.

    Also a reminder to keep to the Pirate Code and respect others' opinions and thoughts. If you disagree with another opinion and cannot have a civil discussion about it, leave it and move on to another one.

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  • Captin1080ti

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi 5-10 min back out the brig
    and a way to take a enemy as prisoner

  • LogansDadToo
    Founder

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi
    I can see having a 3 man crew option or 'locked' crews helping the situation a bit, but unfortunately due to the way some players are, it will never fully solve the issue!
    Getting rid of the brig & having a vote to kick option wouldn't help either! I suppose getting instantly booted from a game isn't as bad as being locked in the brig & being forced to quit, but after you've been insta booted 10 times for no reason, that would be an issue then too!
    The main problem isn't the brig or the mechanic, it's the certain type of players who don't appear to have any morals, & unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about them! (Mod Edited)

  • kinggZANGA
    Founder

    3 man crew selection before entering, whether that be on a seperate vessel designed for a three man crew or three men taking command of a galleon would be an immediate fix. Being able to make your crew private or not so you can have a friend join later would put a stop to crews getting unwanted players. However that leaves the brig with no purpose other than to have a laugh or annoy your fellow pirates you're playing with. So my suggestion is to make the brig a place you can store chests and simply scrap the 'kick to the brig' option. Thank you for listening to the community, I haven't been here long but I can see a lot of players are tired of the griefing that is currently plaguing SoT.

    I've seen a lot of players suggest a vessel that is designed for three man crews, one that is in between the galleon and the sloop in terms of performance and cannon number, to maintain balance. This would add so much more to the game as a whole, in my humble opinion.

    Better matchmaking or a ready up phase where you can talk and see if your fellow pirate pals have microphones (not sure whether you can do that or not as I always party up and play, my apologies if you can already do that) would quickly make up your mind whether or not you wanted to play with certain players. That way you can back out, search and attempt to find a more compatible group. This would combat the need for a 'vote to kick' or 'kick to the brig' mechanic entirely.

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @logansdadtoo Still leaves the question, how do you lessen the impact these players have on the game with the system in place?

  • LogansDadToo
    Founder

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi
    That's the million dollar question, & unfortunately i don't have the answer!

    I suppose improving the matchmaking options would help quite a lot towards reducing the brig abuse.
    If players could specify the amount of players, whether or not they had mics, specify region, specify console or pc etc.

  • DonnyDanger78
    Captain
    Founder

    Hmmm vote to kick is good ....but the same issue could happen as with brig. The option for 2 and 3 man galleons maybe well be the answer.
    Maybe an option to buy out the brigg after a certain amount of time?
    Some how to "break out" of the brigg in the sense of maybe you have to solve a puzzle.
    Maybe have both the brigg - if you want to give them another chance or
    walk the plank - vote to kick from game.

  • Valegor
    Seafarer
    1. Implement a time limit on the brig.
    2. a) Implement a maximum number of times to be sent to the brig, before being auto kicked. (No vote kicking)
      b) Implement a minimum number of brig lockups before allowing the option to kick manually.
    3. Allow people to "lock" their crews to invite-only.
    4. If possible, make it so that chests track which crew members existed when it was found, and only those members get rewards. Whether they've left for the match for any reason or not.

    This promotes proper use.
    With a time limit, players cannot be penalised indefinitely, reducing the trolling there.

    With a number of lockups required for either auto or manual kicking, this means players CAN be removed if they're being nuisance.

    By allowing us to lock our crews, then the leading cause of brig usage is removed. We can simply make it so that somebody cannot take our friends spot and they will be able to matchmake into a game, that actually has an open spot.

    By having chests track crew members when acquired, people will not lose out on their efforts to find them by having a crew lock up and subsequently remove them from the game before selling them, likely to try and have an absent friend profit.

    As far as I can tell, this covers all bases. There should be very little room for complaints or abuse.

  • ArentIALilShort
    Master
    Insider

    I like the idea of a 3 man crew.
    How about an option to play with the brig turned off? This could work 2 ways. With the option to play with the brig turned off, you could be made to match with other players who also have this option turned off. In a way, this means that all players enter the game with no intentions of 'griefing' as some people put it.
    Or, you could simply be matched with players who have this option switched on, however they can't vote you in. This might be frustrating to those players that have it switched on though and wish to use it fairly, if someone is 'being a pain'!
    Regardless of having this option switched off, you should be able to get enemy players into your brig, perhaps an item should be available that allows this, however there is a maximum time (2-3 minutes?) the player stays in the brig before being returned to their ship or being thrown in the water. Perhaps a little cut scene showing them walk the plank lol.
    The time limit could apply to all situations.

  • Mage OvK

    Agree with Valegor - auto kick, time limit.
    Have only had to brig annoying/troll players so far and why should we be stuck with them if they want to squat in the brig indefinitely.

    Also invite only crew would be handy, for accidental disconnections of existing crew.

    Three goes in the brig should be enough for auto kick.

  • FPSRUSSIA70
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    I think the brig is fine but I have seen people randomly putting people in it without them doing anything

  • Valegor
    Seafarer

    Also have to agree with @LogansDadToo
    More specific matchmaking options would go a long way, especially in the case we want a 4 man crew, but get stuck with somebody unsuitable because in that situation, we are right back where we started. Locking them up until they can be kicked.

    Mic Required | Y/N
    Region: ????
    Playstyle: Voyages/PvP/Exploration/Starting a drunken band/Other (Each one should have it's own tickbox for crossover)

    I don't think Console/PC should be an option though. Cross platform play is a great selling point and seems backwards to give the option to not do it.

    I'm sure there are other options people might want to see on that one.

  • Gulpee Rex
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    I'm also use the brig to kick players, or using it to scuttle the ship (if someone is in the brig you need 3 votes, instead of 4). To fix this problem we need:

    • A filter before joining/creating a crew. Microphone (Y/N), Language etc.
    • Vote to kick system. People are using the brig as a kick system. With a 'vote to kick' system it's easier to kick someone who is trolling.
    • Private crews. If you only can invite your friends, the problem of a 4th random player (or troller) is also solved.

    I think a 3-man crew is also interesting but I think we need another ship for that. The small ship will be overpowered with 3 players. For a large ship you need 4 players, 3 players would be too difficult to handle (it's possible yes, but there's a lot of tasks to do).

  • Mage OvK

    Definitely private crews - not sure why there isn't 4 friend crew option? Or have I missed it? Why does the 4th player need to be a random if I have 4 friends i want to play with?

    First time I used the brig was to play a joke on our captain [close friend] and we didn't realise you couldn't get out. If you are only playing with friends the brig can be used for fun [it was fun until we figured out he was stuck in there].

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @mage-ovk you should be able to invite 3 other friends (4 total) to sail on one ship, or are you meaning 4 friends plus you? (5 total)

  • HuntingFalcon99
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @mage-ovk you can vote to let them out, same way you put them in

  • J4dio
    Commander
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    It's already been suggested by many, but to throw my pointless opinion in, I like the brig, but not in the way it has been used by many. I personally have used it for fun, with people I know, and we've had a good laugh with it. The main thing that I think the game needs is a private crew option, so that will help with both disconnects, and if you have say a crew of 4 but one of them will be 20 mins before they can get on. You can still start your voyage, and they could join when they are ready.

    Edit: This also goes for the sloop, many a time I've ended up sailing solo, knowing I have a friend coming on in say half hour, and had to leave then rejoin, just to be back on another empty sloop with them.

  • HuntingFalcon99
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    i think just have a invite only option, only times ive used it is when the matchmaking split us up or when a rando joined while we were trying to get a late party member in

  • mich2mars
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi Maybe by making the "leave" unavailable in the menu while in the brig, so people uses it as it was originally intended, and not as a way to force people to leave.

  • Lasikuu
    Founder

    If and when you add the three man crew and a private crew that only your friends can join, you'll have fixed the vast majority of the issues people have with the brig. I feel like it would also make the random matchmaking experience a lot better, with people using private voip staying in their own crews and random matchmakers matched with each other.

    The remaining problem with the brig would be the people that grief could keep on griefing by staying in the brig and not leaving the game, taking one spot from the crew. I don't know how to fix this however, as there is still a chance that people can brig the person who has been working hardest, in which case he should be allowed to wait until the people cash in his work before leaving.

  • ScoobyWRX555
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    Invite only
    Make a 3 man ship
    No kick vote. Unless there is ability to track gamertags to chests. I'm sure no one wants to spend 4hrs collecting them only to be kicked right before handing in.

  • Entinome
    Lord
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    As other people have suggested, I think a private crew option will help solve a lot of the grief.

    It also seems a lot of people don't know that you can be voted out of the brig. So, overall I think there needs to be more emphasis on that component. You put someone in the prison, you can't just ignore them you have to decide what to do with them no? The developers also talked about the brig being a way for someone to make-up with their crewmates, but as of right now there's no incentive for them to consider you as a "valuable" crewmate once you've been locked in the brig. Without using a mic, there's also no way to convince them that they should hear you out.

    That's another problem, there are a lot of people that get locked in the brig for not using their microphone. Rather than going for a Y/N mic option, I think the brig should (as planned?) include that feature through which you can contribute to the crew. Like, peeling bananas to ease the eating, for example. And after a doing a certain amount of useful things, the crew is in some way notified of their locked-up crewmate positively contributing. I realise this would interfere with the limited hud, but I think voting someone in the brig is important enough to warrant an appearance.

    Just being able to lock someone in the brig and forget about it works, to some degree. It works with trolls and toxic players, as you can ignore them and not adress them. But they can also just stay in there and do nothing, prohibiting a more positive member of joining. So, my last suggestion would be to add some sort of time limit to the brig. A candle in-front of it, that lasts something like 10 minutes after which the crew is prompted in some way to make a decision?

    IDK, I'm just spitballing.

  • Drachmul
    Master
    Founder

    Simple fix. Make a vote kick option or make it so that people can lock their parties and wait for their beloved sea dog to join them! This way you remove the situation where a new player just wants to join a crew and gets immediately sent to the brig but as the same time you let the option available for the crews that want to teach a troll. Don't remove it...it's a very nice addition .

  • DonnyDanger78
    Captain
    Founder

    @scoobywrx555 fair point.

  • LogansDadToo
    Founder

    @erinom3
    Peeling bananas????
    What is this sorcery you speak of??

  • Entinome
    Lord
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @logansdadtoo
    I know, I had to think of something absolutely b*****s

  • PoppaSquids
    Ship Mate

    Brig Timers

    • Set a timer on how long someone can stay in the brig. Also set a timer for when they can be thrown back in. That way someone cant just send someone straight back after they have been in for 5 minutes. I think that would be very fair.

    Also, a Vote to Kick option

    • Allow us to kick crew members after they have had a brig sentance. Theres times a random joins and doesn't contribute or will troll by things like dropping anchor randomly, blowing up our own ship with GP Barrels, wasting supplies like shooting cannon balls randomly. Allow us to put them in the brig so they can learn to contribute, and if they didnt learn, allow us to remove them from our game. Personally I don't want to continuously put someone down there if they are only going to be a distraction. I'd rather remove the player in hopes of another player who wants to contribute.

    My $.02

  • KattTruewalker
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi

    Right, I'll throw my penny in as well. I think we have to look at the reasons why people are being sent to the brig, not that the brig in itself is a bad thing. If we can solve the problems, then perhaps the brig might not be abused.

    I played PotCo - a pirate mmorpg created by Disney. Whatever else you can say about the game, they had very good social and crew management systems.

    We also used to come across the issue of .... let's call them 'unwelcome' crew members. The problem could be solved in a number of ways.

    • Crew management within game allowed you to not only create a crew, but also to manage your ship availability by setting it as Public, Friends, Crew or Guild.
    • If unwelcome people boarded your ship and were a nuisance, or the ship was full and you needed space for friends etc, you docked your ship, changed the setting and the extra person could no longer board.
    • If you were taking part in SvS - which was the ship combat part of the game, there was an actual animation of an unwanted crew member being booted off the ship. Literally. - they would then find themselves back on the starting island.
    • You launched your ship via a dinghy on one of the main islands and you could also see ships which were available to join, who had open settings or needed more crew, or who were on your friends list, or in your Guild, depending on those settings.
    • You also had the option to set sail solo.
    • There was a max number of Crew per ship who shared in increased percentage of the plunder you brought back.
    • You owned the ship, were responsible for upgrades etc and for Crew management, but I see no reason why these couldn't also be a democratic vote.

    The system worked very well indeed.

  • Drachmul
    Master
    Founder

    @poppasquids i honestly think being able to lock in your party would be the better option... i can see the vote kick system produce more griefing and stupid negative situations like the brig does.

  • esbenesa
    Founder
    • Remove the brig on the sloops.
    • Customization of where the different barrels / stuff stands(or at least a few options).
    • Beds? Or furniture
    • Maybe for players of a higher grade or something a small ladder on the lower deck should me avalible
  • JetOrchidee97
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder
    • 3 players crew option.
    • An option to lock and unlock a crew in the game.
    • Add a tool to escape the brig (I think I read somewhere that it has been prototyped), which would make the experience a bit funnier and also would require someone to survey the brig.
    • Add mechanics to put ennemies in the brig (instead of dying and going directly to the ferry of the damned, players should first be unconscious and either be revived by crewmates, put in the brig by ennemies or sent to the ferry after a while).
  • ScoobyWRX555
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    A lot of this makes good sense. Wonder how this in particular can be implemented. A 3 man pre-partied ship would do it.

    @katttruewalker said in Brig Discussion - Suggestions on How to Change the Brig:

    .

    • If unwelcome people boarded your ship and were a nuisance, or the ship was full and you needed space for friends etc, you docked your ship, changed the setting and the extra person could no longer board.
  • DonnyDanger78
    Captain
    Founder

    @katttruewalker the 2 main reason as iunderstand is 1 - they only want to play with 2/3 man crews on a big ship and 2- because of no mics. Technically there is a 3rd reason but i don't think those troublesome players will be around come launch and i don't think they will buy a game just to be a***s 😁
    One hopes at least!

  • PoppaSquids
    Ship Mate

    @drachmul I disagree. What if I want to play on a Galleon, but I have no friends online? What if I join a good Galleon crew with 2 other good players, and one is constantly trolling us, or is basically AFK? I think a vote to kick system would be much less grief. Why should I not be allowed to play with and meet new people on the ship I want to play with, if I can't get rid of people who don't care to contribute to the cause? Why should I be forced to leave game and join a new crew if 1 of 4 of the crew members isn't helping VS removing the 1 player? Not everyone can be happy. If 3 votes pass to kick someone, then they probably deserved it.

    HOWEVER, I think there should be rules in place. Such as say the person getting kicked was the one that placed the voyage - then gets kicked. I think the voyage should be returned to the players inventory, and that voyage should be cancelled so players can't have someone join the crew, place a voyage and kick them only to get a free voyage

  • Yuckiesnow

    You will never get away from rude people on the net. I don't know how hard it would be to rework the ship with no brig.
    Or if it would just be easy to lock parties or friends only can join.

    As for vote kicking I don't know or keeping the brig to lock trolls or rude people up. As for picking any of the above, we need something to kick or lock up toxic people. Out of the 6 times playing with 3 people in beta, our 4th random person was a huge D***. Loud music, dropping the anchor and running us a shore or driving away with the ship. I am sure they thought it was funny. til they went to the brig and muted. Then they would send us text on xbox live. So before you pick what to do please see both sides of the fence.

    PS. love the game and cant wait to see it go live.

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