@tossico94 said in Red Sea Loot:
There's no tactic, it's just as toxic as spawncamp for lulz.
Oh no... the lulz are when a ship chases us across the map and in to the red sea with NO treasure :D
Ahhh The Red Sea.... it will always bring up a good debate :D
Regardless of whether people think it's a strategy or not, there is NO REASON to not have things in the red sea drift back to the Sea of Thieves.
Red Seaing is unsportsmanlike. End of. There is no argument. It is NOT a tactic. It's you saying "I didn't want to try and defend my loot therefore we both lose". This is the equivalent of losing a football match and then attacking the winners. It's a bad mindset of "I win or nobody wins"
People keep insisting that being chased is wasting their time, so they waste the chasers time by INTENTIONALLY dumping your loot in the Red Sea. Well you "pirates" you could easily sail by outposts and drop of loot, grab a chest and jump off swim over and sell. Mermaid back and continue. Or you could do this but hide everything on and island.
Or lose them in the fog or the storm, or maybe hope they get Kraken'd.
Or you could do something a bit further outside the box! You could fight! WOW!! Turn your boat around and fight back. Don't try to tell me that "its an unfair fight they have more people", with that mindset you will never win. It's entirely possible to take out a larger crew, you just need to be smart. And deciding that you have already lost before you even try is an excellent way to never get better. If your goal is to waste their time, sink them, they'll hate that. Being the aggressors they'll think they will win, what do you think they'll feel when you sink them?
And anyways if you do sink, so what? You were gonna lose your loot in the Red Sea anyways. You got outplayed by someone better than you. Now you know what NOT to do next time. At the same time, they got rewarded for beating you and you accepted defeat like a good sport.
Red Seaing your loot is not outplaying them because you didn't come out victorious, so don't use that argument.
If you want ignore everything I just said an continue what you were already doing. Just make sure you remeber you have no hope, ever, of improving and that you are being a bad sport.
Red Seaing is not a tactic. Please make it so Red Sea loot drifts back towards the SoT.
P.S. if the chasers are yelling at you over Comms and being mean, go ahead and Red Sea. They deserve it.
The end
@lizalaroo your still failing to explain the different between the 2.
Spawncamping is against the rule since their is now end point and is only done to aggravate other players. Red Seaing loot is just done to also aggravate other players with no end point.
Neither have an end goal. Your going around the point that the only purpose to Red Sea loot is to aggravate by just saying that its a way to play the game but not explaining what is gained out of it.
@ottyman8687 said in Red Sea Loot:
If you want ignore everything I just said an continue what you were already doing. Just make sure you remeber you have no hope, ever, of improving and that you are being a bad sport.
What about this doesn't apply to a hunter that has failed to catch their prey?
Skilled hunters prevent red sea plays every day.
I agree, as much as I hate it running is a perfectly reasonable strategy and is part of the game and it should be, but essentially deleting loot so that no one can get it is lame. There is no benefit, there is no skill, there is no counter unless the crew doesn't go past the blackscreen zone. Again running is reasonable, you can run from A1 to Z26 and back but the moment loot is just deleted by the red sea it just becomes one crew thinking that somehow they won because the other didn't win but in mitual destruction no one wins.
@lizalaroo
So you are lolling because you are wasting your own free time or because you want to waste others time for the sake of your fun?
If is my second statement true, doesnt it make toxic as spawncamp?
You must have alot of free time it seems, why don't you use it for a more appropriate behavior since you are a mod? Or did I strike directly in the wound to make you so defensive?
Greetings Mr ":D"
Spawncamp (the toxic way) = killing enemy crew as soon as they respawn for no tactical gain but for personal lolz. Enemy crew has option to scuttle.
Red sea lizararoo "tactic"= Sailing into red sea with no loot for no strategic gain beside lolling. Enemy have option to stop chasing.
Beside its clear that there is no difference, 1 is considered toxic, 1 is considered a TACTIC
Totally not biased right.
@tossico94 said in Red Sea Loot:
Spawncamp (the toxic way) = killing enemy crew as soon as they respawn for no tactical gain but for personal lolz. Enemy crew has option to scuttle.
Red sea lizararoo "tactic"= Sailing into red sea with no loot for no strategic gain beside lolling. Enemy have option to stop chasing.
Beside its clear that there is no difference, 1 is considered toxic, 1 is considered a TACTIC
Totally not biased right.
One is simply spiteful, the other is quite litterally cyber bullying.
Most people who deal with Red Sea-ers are PvPers who have more than enough gold. A bit of loot chucked into the blood water won't hurt them at all. I guarantee you, me, and everyone else will still play regardless of the loot being dumped there.
The toxic kind of spawncamping, however, is targeted at newer, solo, or lesser skilled players, and leads to them quiting the game, sometimes forever. We need these players to keep the game alive, and so the Devs can continue to work on this amazing game.
I myself don't Red Sea, but i will never agree to removing other players' playstyles, be it portal hopping, server hopping, Red Seaing, Server Alliancing, or Tdming. The Seas are for all to play one, as a Pirate's life is free. (Excluding of course racists, sexist, e.t.c.)
@tossico94 said in Red Sea Loot:
Spawncamp (the toxic way) = killing enemy crew as soon as they respawn for no tactical gain but for personal lolz. Enemy crew has option to scuttle.
Red sea lizararoo "tactic"= Sailing into red sea with no loot for no strategic gain beside lolling. Enemy have option to stop chasing.
Beside its clear that there is no difference, 1 is considered toxic, 1 is considered a TACTIC
Totally not biased right.
Rather than people taking a loss from time to time and self reflecting to come up with a strategy to improve to catch the next one (which is what we all are regularly required to do to succeed)...this is all we are still getting from those that are passionately opposed to red sea plays?
Fighting for the right to spawn camp in an intentionally malicious way rather than just tucking better, hiding better, ambushing better, etc lol.
Like I say to pvers all the time, focusing on the end result and trying to nerf others doesn't solve the issues that lead to the result.
Be kind and please rewind the scenario. Before they ran and escaped there were strategy and performance failures that can be improved upon to get different results in the future. Stealth can be improved, naval can be improved, close combat can be improved. Strategy can be improved. Pvers gotta adapt and improve, I gotta adapt and improve, everyone that wants to consistently get different results has gotta do it, including pvpers.
and the spawn camping punishment thing is overblown from everything I've seen in my massive amount of hours played. Camping happens all the time in all sorts of scenarios and with all sorts skill levels and rarely does it go beyond that, people figure it out and move on typically. The only times I've ever seen people get in trouble over it were because they knew what they were doing and played with that fire and got burned. Some people get away with it but the ones that do get in trouble are knowingly taking it too far or regularly playing with fire from what I have seen. It's really easy to just play the game without needing to worry about having issues when someone isn't trying to be a meanie about it.
@lizalaroo said in Red Sea Loot:
@tossico94 We're each entitled to play the game the way we want, that's the brilliance of this game.
And dumping treasure in the red sea has nothing to do with toxicity and can't really be compared to spawncamping, unless it is accompanied by a malicious violation of the rules and some pretty awful potty mouthing.Mods calling sailing to red sea a tactic is hilarious.
Hilarious, but it works :)
Doing something for the sole reason of making other players angry and trying to ruin their day by wasting time and grief them is, last I checked, against the rules and bannable isnt it?
Arent these the exact same arguments used to justify the bans for spawncamping?
Why are people trying to defend this?
It's ridiculous.
Spawn-camping is bannable. Sitting on a guys ship and killing him over and over is "against the rules". Literally done just to anger someone.
Red Seaing is just done to spite someone. It's unsportsmanlike and it is NOT A TACTIC OR A PLAYSTYLE.
It's you being a selfish "pirate" who refuses to try and fight back.
Make Red Sea loot float back towards the sea. It is such an easy addition and that way everyone's happy. The PvP players get their loot and the runner gets to sink their ship and ragequit (for whatever reason).
We have scuttling to negate the effects of spawn-camping.
Let's introduce something to negate the effects of Red Seaing
Because both are unsportsmanlike, malicious and completely wrong for a game that is focused on the loot.
Stop being selfish and fight back. It's the only way to improve
@alienmagi aren’t you doing exactly the same by chasing people for hours? Making them upset and angry?
@brunokuz said in Red Sea Loot:
@alienmagi aren’t you doing exactly the same by chasing people for hours? Making them upset and angry?
No. PvP is one of the core mechanics of the game, going after someone to fight them is not griefing.
@alienmagi said in Red Sea Loot:
@brunokuz said in Red Sea Loot:
@alienmagi aren’t you doing exactly the same by chasing people for hours? Making them upset and angry?
No. PvP is a part of the game, going after someone to fight them is not griefing.
So is the Red Sea! 😉
@el-spaniardchi said in Red Sea Loot:
@alienmagi said in Red Sea Loot:
@brunokuz said in Red Sea Loot:
@alienmagi aren’t you doing exactly the same by chasing people for hours? Making them upset and angry?
No. PvP is a part of the game, going after someone to fight them is not griefing.
So is the Red Sea! 😉
Yes and so is spawncamping, but spawncamping and throwing loot into the red sea are griefing while PvP is one of the core mechanics of the game.
Rare added a solution to spawncamping which is the scuttle option. Throwing loot into the red sea is an unfixed griefing mechanic.
@ottyman8687 said in Red Sea Loot:
Why are people trying to defend this?
It's ridiculous.
Spawn-camping is bannable. Sitting on a guys ship and killing him over and over is "against the rules". Literally done just to anger someone.
Red Seaing is just done to spite someone. It's unsportsmanlike and it is NOT A TACTIC OR A PLAYSTYLE.
It's you being a selfish "pirate" who refuses to try and fight back.
Make Red Sea loot float back towards the sea. It is such an easy addition and that way everyone's happy. The PvP players get their loot and the runner gets to sink their ship and ragequit (for whatever reason).
We have scuttling to negate the effects of spawn-camping.
Let's introduce something to negate the effects of Red Seaing
Because both are unsportsmanlike, malicious and completely wrong for a game that is focused on the loot.
Stop being selfish and fight back. It's the only way to improve
asking for literally a participation prize by suggesting that the loot comes back out after having already been established as a risk but keep going on about improving. Everyone that chases knows the risk, lost time and lost loot if they don't perform better than the one with the loot.
If attackers performed better there would be very little red sea'd loot in this game. That's not an opinion it's a fact. Performance prevents red sea'd loot and for some reason hunters that have failed at hunting are repeatedly refusing to take responsibility for that.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is failing at performance and then looking to blame others and then nerf others rather than taking responsibility for a performance that was not enough for victory.
People running away and sacrificing their loot isn't unsportsmanlike conduct because they don't have obligations and they are playing within the rules. This being a game based on piracy only amplifies that sentiment. People aren't obligated to oblige the preferences of others in gameplay where the environment is freedom of play, not obliging is not unsportsmanlike.
You know what else Redding does? It keeps a hunter busy and the rest of the server is left alone.
You couldn't stop me before I got there it shouldn't just be handed to you. That's what all of these types of suggestions are. 🙄 I chased you so I automatically get your stuff.
I'm gonna make the same suggestion I always do when people cry that they couldn't catch me:
Make the despawn wall further out, increase ship damage in the Red so I can't make it to the despawn wall. Loot stays where it floats. Now you can get the loot. Maybe...heh heh.
@alienmagi said in Red Sea Loot:
@el-spaniardchi Yes and so is spawncamping, but spawncamping and throwing loot into the red sea are griefing while PvP is one of the core mechanics of the game.
The term "Spawncamping" seems to be used in abundance in thus whole thread.
Spawncamping is fine, unless it is to bully another player. A.k.a Spawncamping for lolz
You aren't being bullied if someone Red Seas their loot.
@el-spaniardchi said in Red Sea Loot:
@alienmagi said in Red Sea Loot:
@el-spaniardchi Yes and so is spawncamping, but spawncamping and throwing loot into the red sea are griefing while PvP is one of the core mechanics of the game.
The term "Spawncamping" seems to be used in abundance in thus whole thread.
Spawncamping is fine, unless it is to bully another player. A.k.a Spawncamping for lolz
You aren't being bullied if someone Red Seas their loot.
The scuttle option exists.
Time machines dont exist.
So what form of "bullying" is worse:
having to respawn your ship in mere seconds due to losing a fight?
having 30 minutes of your time wasted because someone cannot emotionally process getting attacked in a PvP (vE) game?
You chose to chase 30 minutes.
When after 5 it should have been obvious you weren't gonna catch them...
Exactly. But when a mod does that you realize it's a lost fight. The game has become so easy that even a 2 years old child can do it,and it seems like that peoples adapted to it and want it even more easy.
It's all about being selfish, peoples cry because they lose fights but they never try to improve themselves fighting back. They like to stay at noob level because they're too lazy to put any effort and the result is toxic behavior being called a tactic, and when they get caught because running didnt work, they try to report or they call the enemy a toxic player.
Hilarious but also pretty pathetic if you ask me.
@lizalaroo @pithyrumble I'm sorry are you guys telling us that it is malicious and toxic to chase a ship for more than 5 minutes...
Dam someone better go tell all the SoT partners that they are clearly malicious spiteful toxic and evil people since last I checked a bunch of streamers do nothing else than chase and PVP players paired with of course them having a community of server hoppers.
So what is it SoT Partners are not toxic and malicious or are they also all awful people?
@alienmagi said in Red Sea Loot:
The scuttle option exists.
So does not chasing a player who obviously doesn't want to fight
Time machines dont exist.
Agreed!
So what form of "bullying" is worse:
having to respawn your ship in mere seconds due to losing a fight?
having 30 minutes of your time wasted because someone cannot emotionally process getting attacked in a PvP (vE) game?.
Nobody forced you to chase them. Also try to look at your post from this angle.
having 30 minutes of your time wasted because a PvPer cannot emotionally process not wanting you to have their loot in a PvP (vE) game?.
@nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:
@lizalaroo @pithyrumble I'm sorry are you guys telling us that it is malicious and toxic to chase a ship for more than 5 minutes...
Dam someone better go tell all the SoT partners that they are clearly malicious spiteful toxic and evil people since last I checked a bunch of streamers do nothing else than chase and PVP players paired with of course them having a community of server hoppers.
So what is it SoT Partners are not toxic and malicious or are they also all awful people?
Nobody said it was malicious, it's about choice, YOU choose to chase them, THEY choose to not hand you their loot on a platter. Deal with it! Not every chase will end the way you want it to. Either catch them or cut away if they obviously are heading to the red sea.
@pithyrumble said in Red Sea Loot:
You know what else Redding does? It keeps a hunter busy and the rest of the server is left alone.
You couldn't stop me before I got there it shouldn't just be handed to you. That's what all of these types of suggestions are. 🙄 I chased you so I automatically get your stuff.
I'm gonna make the same suggestion I always do when people cry that they couldn't catch me:
Make the despawn wall further out, increase ship damage in the Red so I can't make it to the despawn wall. Loot stays where it floats. Now you can get the loot. Maybe...heh heh.
You know what else is a good way to make sure a hunter does not automatically get the loot...
And many many more and in ALL of these scenarios you improved at the game and had a fighting chance to save your loot!
Just deleting loot did nothing for anyone, a ship just sailing in the direction away from the reaper where there ship is the fastest than hitting the Red Sea is not a skilled thing.
To be honest at this point they should just bring Arena back.
Judging by recent posts on this forum, it's removal seems to have just done loads of harm.
This whole Red Sea argument, along with other complaints about PvP Portal-Hopping, Server-hopping, Reapers being Toxic, etc. All seem to have taken over the forum ever since the removal of Arena.
And I can only assume it's because there has been a sudden influx of players who want to fight in a world that in its current state, it's greatly skewed towards PvE.
This update seems to have done more harm than good.
And I genuinely believe, that Arena, or some other way of bringing PvP players together is the best way to single-handedly solve all these problems.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. You know when you're getting outrun. Why keep going? Or are you just that bad of a sailor?
You're mad someone got away from you. If you hadn't botched the approach and ambush you wouldn't have thought twice about Redding.
What matters for rare is emporium, streamers and new content for new players.
Streamers bring new players, new potential emporium users and rare make new easy content for them.
It's all a circle, it's not a fair game, none is interested in making it balanced.
End game content, hard content still doesn't exist after 4 years.
@ottyman8687 said in Red Sea Loot:
To be honest at this point they should just bring Arena back.
Judging by recent posts on this forum, it's removal seems to have just done loads of harm.
This whole Red Sea argument, along with other complaints about PvP Portal-Hopping, Server-hopping, Reapers being Toxic, etc. All seem to have taken over the forum ever since the removal of Arena.
And I can only assume it's because there has been a sudden influx of players who want to fight in a world that in its current state, it's greatly skewed towards PvE.
This update seems to have done more harm than good.
And I genuinely believe, that Arena, or some other way of bringing PvP players together is the best way to single-handedly solve all these problems.
It's a few threads with a few topics that are tales as old as time, where hobby posters participate.
Forums and other platforms where people socialize about the game are bubbles. In general people do fine on the seas. They get to do what they want when they want as long as it is within the rules and it largely works itself out.
@pithyrumble It baffles me how you think that turning in the direction your ship is fastest and booking it to the red sea means you outplayed lol.
I will chase someone to the end of the map since inevitably they have to turn around or red sea and fortunately there are still players in this game who realize that Redding loot gains nothing and they better try something else.
Gonna be honest I'm surprised to see that this hasn't been locked yet. It's beating a dead horse, and at this point a salt farm between the same 2 points going around in circles.
It sucks to be the chaser, and it sucks even more when the runners are more toxic than 90% of the PvP-based community, but there's not much you can do about it.
