Red Sea Loot

  • The ability to Red Sea loot is so incredibly stupid. There is no strategy when a ship is red seaing loot or a key, it is not an actual playstyle, and contributes nothing to the game.

    Easy fix would be so that loot outside the map would drift back in and not start sinking till back within the map!

    Edit: for those saying it’s a strategy or a tactic in what way is it different than spawncamping another ship for no reason at all. Both serve to send a message, aggravate other players, and waste time. If one is bad than so is the other. There is no difference between the 2.

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  • It's an established option. Removing it is choosing one side over another. Pirates need to figure out their own server food chain without interference.

    Piracy isn't a system of honor. Ambushing a bunch of pvers that don't want to fight or know how to fight isn't honorable. Adventure isn't an honor system it's a food chain where pirates can do whatever they want to survive or eat.

    People can have personal opinions on it but their personal opinions shouldn't lead to interference.

    Red sea'ing/hiding/whatever'ing loot is also the only way prey can send a message. This game has flooded adventure with massive supplies and power from the dock. No investment for massive reward required. If pvers want to send a message that they don't want to participate in the one sided fights where enemies have no loot they can do what they can to avoid the loot going to the attackers.

    Pvpers can improve at the ambushing or work on becoming more appealing for combat. Pvers have to adapt, and so do pvpers if they want to eat.

    Many of the people that chase people around for hours or into the red sea are often done with the commendations they value and are wealthy in game. They are ego chasing as much as people are ego running. They are wasting their own time. It's their choice.

  • Why though? As spiteful as Red Seaing is, i don't think a PvPer suddenly should have the right to profit from simply setting eye on another player's loot.

  • @nitroxien "Loot is not yours until you turn it in"

    If you can't catch or prevent other ships from turning in loot, then the loot is no ones.

    Running to the Red is as valid a tactic as Chasing someone to the Red.

    No one owes anyone a fight, Sea of Thieves is a Shared World Aventure Game. You set out on an adventure and from there, the choice is yours!

    See sails on the horizon? Fight or Flight? If you want to chase someone, feel free....if someone wants to sail away...they are also free to do so!

    The wonderful (and often irritating) thing about online gaming is you can never predict how the other person will react! Other wise you may as well just play offline with Bots.

  • @triheadedmonkey said in Red Sea Loot:

    @nitroxien "Loot is not yours until you turn it in"

    If you can't catch or prevent other ships from turning in loot, then the loot is no ones.

    Running to the Red is as valid a tactic as Chasing someone to the Red.

    No one owes anyone a fight, Sea of Thieves is a Shared World Aventure Game. You set out on an adventure and from there, the choice is yours!

    See sails on the horizon? Fight or Flight? If you want to chase someone, feel free....if someone wants to sail away...they are also free to do so!

    The wonderful (and often irritating) thing about online gaming is you can never predict how the other person will react! Other wise you may as well just play offline with Bots.

    So it's a shared world adventure game, meaning I can play however I want so long as I'm not belittling someone. Then why is spawn killing bannable? They have every opportunity to scuttle yet chose not to. Seems like hypocracy to me :/

  • @el-spaniardchi said in Red Sea Loot:

    Why though? As spiteful as Red Seaing is, i don't think a PvPer suddenly should have the right to profit from simply setting eye on another player's loot.

    But they aren't? If you're stupid enough to sail into the red with the intention to just... throw your loot away rather than fight then that's on you.

  • @whitelisted8572 Question for Customer Support not me!

    https://support.seaofthieves.com/

  • It's petty, yes, but, as @triheadedmonkey said, "It's not your loot until you turn it in!"

  • @triheadedmonkey

    Definition of tactic: “an action or strategy to achieve a specific end”

    So what is the end goal of red seaing loot? Running has merit it’s annoying but there is a potential end goal what is end goal of dumping loot in the Red Sea?

    The only answer is to aggravate other players. This is arguably worst than spawncamping for no reason if spawn camping is considered toxic than by all means so is the ability to Red Sea the loot there is no actual difference if one is a tactic than so is the other.

  • @wolfmanbush than should pvpers be able to also send a message by spawn camping ships to no end? There is no difference of one is toxic than so is the other. They both server to aggravate others.

  • @el-spaniardchi run for all you want never said not to. But why Red Sea else than to aggravate other players.

    Red Seaing loot is just done to aggravate other players like spawncamping. If one is deemed toxic than so should the other.

  • @nitroxien Goal: Avoid conflict and deny loot to others? 🤷‍♂️

    Spawn Camping is an entirely different beast with several grey areas..... if you do it to prevent repairs, give yourself time to offload their loot/supplies etc...fair enough.

    If you are doing it 'just for luls' with no intention of sinking the other crew, maybe not so much.

    Again it is something that is beyond my remit and a question for CS. Each case is viewed and ruled on individually.

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    @wolfmanbush than should pvpers be able to also send a message by spawn camping ships to no end? There is no difference of one is toxic than so is the other. They both server to aggravate others.

    One would be a malicious violation of the rules and one is people using their freedom of choice to potentially escape an attack/avoid pvp/whatever their personal reason is.

    Rather than going to extremes maybe a pirate can just improve their strategies/performance and accept that sometimes they get away.

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    @el-spaniardchi run for all you want never said not to. But why Red Sea else than to aggravate other players.

    Red Seaing loot is just done to aggravate other players like spawncamping. If one is deemed toxic than so should the other.

    You do realise there are PvPers who do relatively the same thing? The guys who are only after the "sinks" and leave loot to rot in the ocean? Yet i see nobody making a fuss over those guys' play styles.

    Plus the Red Sea has a use. If someone is being racist, but they are more skilled at pvp than you, you can dump the loot so they get that extra salt in the wound, along with a redbeard

  • @triheadedmonkey you can quit the game to avoid conflict or just scuttle.

    The act of denying loot is done either to send a message or to aggravate the players chasing. These are the same reasons players choose to spawn camp another ship it’s to send a message or aggravate the other players. These reasons are considered toxic but why is only one of them frowned upon?

  • @el-spaniardchi that’s gameplay going to sink ships in a pirate game… are you telling me that going to Red Sea loot is gameplay that’s why people do it? People go to Red Sea loot since it’s the game?

    No it’s to aggravate other players and send a message the exact same reasons spawncamping is done!

  • @nitroxien you could also choose to quit chasing someone....no one is forcing you to!

    Most folks don't choose to get chased.

  • @wolfmanbush why is spawncamping against the rules?

    It’s because it’s sole purpose is to aggravate other players which is the same thing Red Seaing the loot does! Neither have an end goal, purpose, or strategy!

    There is no reason never to Red Sea loot else than to aggravate other players or send a message. Which is why spawncamping is also frowned upon.

  • @triheadedmonkey this is not about chasing the ability to run is part of the game and I encourage it. Run till you tire the other ship out, drop sell, hide loot to come back to, row boat it!

    So many options in this game that have a potential end goal. What is the end goal of dropping loot in the Red Sea than to aggravate other players…

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    @el-spaniardchi that’s gameplay going to sink ships in a pirate game… are you telling me that going to Red Sea loot is gameplay that’s why people do it? People go to Red Sea loot since it’s the game?

    No it’s to aggravate other players and send a message the exact same reasons spawncamping is done!

    The people who spawncamp, however, often target newer players and that behavior makes the newer player drop the game, and then the game eventually dies (was partially why Arena died).

    The people who Red Sea are generally just average PvE players who refuse to make themselves easy prey for the skilled PvP crew. Both parties ate still gonna play the game regardless of the interaction.

    That's why we ban spawncamping, but leave Red Seaing alone

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    @wolfmanbush why is spawncamping against the rules?

    It’s because it’s sole purpose is to aggravate other players which is the same thing Red Seaing the loot does! Neither have an end goal, purpose, or strategy!

    There is no reason never to Red Sea loot else than to aggravate other players or send a message. Which is why spawncamping is also frowned upon.

    You said "to no end" implying clearly trying to ruin a person's experience maliciously

    You appear to feel pvpers are entitled to something they are not. Imo that one of the reasons why your comparison is flawed. Another reason being that's one is clearly trying to harm others and one is people running away from conflict.

  • @el-spaniardchi so should you be able to spawn camp experienced players?

    If the person you are spawncamping is an experienced player and not new is it than acceptable?

  • @wolfmanbush stop trying to say I am against running. I encourage people to run!

    Try to drop sell loot, rowboat it, hide the loot, try to make some sneaky board/keg plays! The game is full of amazing tools to use! The ONLY reason to Red Sea loot is for malicious intent being to aggravate other players. You are not answering what you gain out of Red Seaing loot else than aggravating others which is the same reason to spawn camp. Both have no reason but to aggravate, both net both teams nothing as a result both are malicious.

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    @el-spaniardchi so should you be able to spawn camp experienced players?

    If the person you are spawncamping is an experienced player and not new is it than acceptable?

    I'm saying that these players that often brag about how they're so good at "Spawncamping" are often just beating down unexperienced or lower skilled crews (or solos).

    The main point I was trying to make is spawncampers aim for the weak and vunerable new players, while Red Sea-ers simply annoy the stronger veterans

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    @wolfmanbush stop trying to say I am against running. I encourage people to run!

    Try to drop sell loot, rowboat it, hide the loot, try to make some sneaky board/keg plays! The game is full of amazing tools to use! The ONLY reason to Red Sea loot is for malicious intent being to aggravate other players. You are not answering what you gain out of Red Seaing loot else than aggravating others which is the same reason to spawn camp. Both have no reason but to aggravate, both net both teams nothing as a result both are malicious.

    People run into the red sea and have no idea what the red sea is daily.

    People run against the wind and that's where it takes them. They just run.

    People try different things before eventually hitting the red sea. The skill gap is significant, expecting piratical competency in a situation where many lack experience and combat related skill is unrealistic.

    The people that know exactly what they are doing are sacrificing all of their own potential profit. Everyone loses.

  • @wolfmanbush are you saying players hit the Red Sea by accident… if so than my proposed change would make no difference for these players.

    Players who choose to Red Sea loot on purpose do so sine they want to aggravate the players chasing them.

    Choosing to do an action just to aggravate other players is considered malicious that is why spawn camping is malicious.

  • @triheadedmonkey said in Red Sea Loot:

    @nitroxien "Loot is not yours until you turn it in"

    If you can't catch or prevent other ships from turning in loot, then the loot is no ones.

    Running to the Red is as valid a tactic as Chasing someone to the Red.

    No one owes anyone a fight, Sea of Thieves is a Shared World Aventure Game. You set out on an adventure and from there, the choice is yours!

    See sails on the horizon? Fight or Flight? If you want to chase someone, feel free....if someone wants to sail away...they are also free to do so!

    The wonderful (and often irritating) thing about online gaming is you can never predict how the other person will react! Other wise you may as well just play offline with Bots.

    I love it when triheadedmonkey enters the room, utters his words of wisdom then mic drop style leaves. BOOM! lol

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    @wolfmanbush are you saying players hit the Red Sea by accident… if so than my proposed change would make no difference for these players.

    Players who choose to Red Sea loot on purpose do so sine they want to aggravate the players chasing them.

    Choosing to do an action just to aggravate other players is considered malicious that is why spawn camping is malicious.

    What stopped a crew from preventing red sea'd loot?

    Performance. Pvpers can sink anyone they want, an opportunity not an entitlement. Performance prevented securing the loot. That's not at the feet of the devs or those that are running against/with the wind, it's at the feet of the pirates that want the loot.

    Red sea loot dumping is grandfathered into the environment. That means changing it is making a choice to cater to the chaser and nerf the runner. When the devs start picking and choosing rather than allowing it to work itself out pvpers will end up worse off. The game gets more casual by the update, people that like less intensity are growing in numbers. If you value how you enjoy playing I'd take into account that your style might end up on that chopping block once you try to nerf the choices the others.

  • Agreed: if spawncamping is "griefing" or toxicity or whatever, then so is this "pro strats red sea running"

    If your mindset is in the place of red sea-ing the loot to make sure I don't get it, the attack isn't about the loot anymore. If I see your ship go down, I'm satisfied, and twice as much knowing you did it yourself out of spite instead of logging off and forgetting it even happened.

  • @nitroxien said in Red Sea Loot:

    The ability to Red Sea loot is so incredibly stupid. There is no strategy when a ship is red seaing loot or a key, it is not an actual playstyle, and contributes nothing to the game.

    Easy fix would be so that loot outside the map would drift back in and not start sinking till back within the map!

    Edit: for those saying it’s a strategy or a tactic in what way is it different than spawncamping another ship for no reason at all. Both serve to send a message, aggravate other players, and waste time. If one is bad than so is the other. There is no difference between the 2.

    There is a way around it although annoying, get a harpoon rowboat and watch them sink/try to escape then go hunt for it.

  • for those saying it’s a strategy or a tactic in what way is it different than spawncamping another ship for no reason at all.

    Yet both are a thing players are “free” to do. But one is more a silly thing to do while the other is simply cruel and unfun.

    I’m sorry you chased a ship and they decided. “If I can’t have it. Nobody can” and you failed to stop them.
    Ur because you failed doesn’t meant it’s bad. Heck a good crew would realize they can harpoon or even rowboat far enough before you take damage and retrieve the loot.

    In the end. It’s not bad to say, let it remain as it is. Because it doesn’t ruin anything. Just makes kids like yourself unhappy they failed to sink a ship and chased them for # hours :p

  • There's 2 different forms of "red sea'ing" loot. There's taking it to the red sea (which I don't feel needs any alterations), and then there's bailing and repairing your ship until you get to the despawn boundary. That latter mechanic is what I feel is an exploit. It's defeating a mechanic to get loot into an unintended location. If clipping loot/fort keys/etc. into walls/rocks/unintended locations is a reportable offense with consequences (source: Falcore), taking loot beyond the boundary of the game should be as well.

    I had proposed an alteration a while back that would effectively make use of the quest board when loot was taken beyond the boundaries of the red sea.

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/143269/red-sea-mechanic-change?page=1

    While it may need some minor tweaks, I feel that proposal would be the most fair approach as it would give the runner the advantage in that they would be more willing to go re-collect their loot...and if neither party wants to go collect it, then at the very least the quest board gets an addition since it's just collecting dust at this point.

  • @sweetsandman

    If clipping loot/fort keys/etc. into walls/rocks/unintended locations is a reportable offense with consequences (source: Falcore),

    Where did he say this and what code of conduct did he cite?

  • @lackbarwastaken Oh gosh it was a while back during one of his streams. He was actually going on about the red sea when he mentioned it. I wish I had clipped his entire rant on it but I didn't.

  • @nitroxien Its been in the game for so very very long, red seaing is tradition really. Also people don't do it very often at all so its not a major problem. People typically want to hold on to their loot and so they put themselves in positions where they lose it before they can red sea it. I don't think they will ever change it personally.

    I do agree that its not interesting gameplay, throwing your loot overboard would be at least actively playing the game. Give the pursuers a choice to keep going or pick up loot. The person being chased has to either run against wind while dumping loot and then risk the chaser being able to harpoon it or the runner has to turn in order to try and leave the loot in places the pursuer cant grab while still chasing.

    So umm to sum up I guess I don't care but I would if everyone did it. If I could change it I guess I would.
    Maybe make it so the loot doesn't come all the way back but it comes just out of the despawn zone so ships still have to be in the red to grab it. Or maybe make it so half the loot is despawned but half comes all the way back. The anticipation wondering whether or not the athena was lost to the red or will come back.

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