Ideas for PvP from someone who hates PvP

  • I'm really not fond of PvP and try to avoid it as much as possible, BUT I do acknowledge it's a fundamental part of the game. And a common thing I hear from people who like PvP is complaining about people who try and run away, or don't put up a fight. PvP should be fun for everyone! But there are some issues currently.

    For one thing, as much as this contributes to the risk-reward style of gameplay, if you play for an hour lets say racking up loot only to get outmatched in naval combat (or worse - have your ship sunk while in a vault or shrine) it feels awful to lose everything you worked for. It honestly feels like such a waste of time. Yes, you can play more conservatively, never raising Emissary flags, stopping at Outposts to sell every time you get a small bit of loot - basically trying to be less of a target; but we've all seen players who will rock up and sink a ship that's just spawned in! 'Making yourself less of a target' isn't valid because it doesn't matter what you have - if you're playing, you're a target.

    Playing in fear all the time isn't fun. So I propose two potential changes that could spice things up a little. To be clear as well, I don't think BOTH of these should be implemented, but one or the other could be good.

    Firstly, Insurance. Imagine if you could pay an up-front cost to the Merchants or the Shipwright to get your ship Insured. The downside would be, if you don't get sunk or robbed, you bought it for nothing; but if your ship is sunk and your loot stolen, you get a percentage of gold when the loot is sold by whoever stole it, because it became insured when it was placed on your ship! I don't mean that the player who bested you gets less gold, but more like after the loot is sold by someone not on your crew, you also get some insurance money (worth a lot less, but something at least). It would mean players needn't feel so bad about losing a big haul as they'll still get something. This would also be good for the PvP seekers as their targets may well be less afraid to carry more loot, making them better targets. Also if you know you'll get some compensation if you're sunk, players who would normally avoid PvP when a ship starts attacking may feel like they can get involved, making for more rewarding combat for all.

    Secondly, Docking Privileges. This would also be provided by either the Merchant or Shipwright; the idea is when docked at an Outpost and within a limited area of the docks those NPCs are found on, you can pay to officially 'Dock' your ship. While docked, if any other ship damages yours, or any other pirate attacks you, cannons on the outpost would begin firing at the attacker. They wouldn't have pinpoint accuracy, something between a seafort and a ghost ship - just enough to make the attacker think twice. The moment you leave the set radius, your ship is no longer Docked. However, while Docked, if you fire your cannons at any time when your ship or crew have not been damaged in the last 30 seconds, the contract would terminate and the outpost would not fight for you.
    This achieves two things. 1, it offers some level of protection for players just logging in. And 2, it makes some level of sense for the Outpost to protect it's interests - if a ship is firing at another that is docked there, any stray cannon fire would presumably hit the Outpost - so why wouldn't they take the side of someone who payed for the privilege of docking there?
    If you attack a Docked ship or their crew, no NPC at that Outpost would do business with you until either the Docked ship had sunk (since there'd be nothing to protect any more) or 3 minutes had passed where your ship and crew had done no damage to any other ship or crew. However, to make the prospect more appealing, Docked ships would have an additional flag to advertise it's protection, and said flag would sell highly to the Reaper's Bones.

    I'd love to hear feedback on these ideas! Been thinking for a while about them since I just never enjoy PvP, but I wouldn't want to deprive others of doing it, and these were the compromise ideas I had.

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  • The insurance part is interesting to think about and well thought out as a feature suggestion.

  • Insurance is an interesting idea. Would love to see it expanded a little.

    But the second one? No. Attacking someone on an outpost is completly fine lore wise. The outpost would not attack someone for that.

    Both the novel and comics (they are all canon) have people killing each other and stealing stuff on outposts. It is a normal thing here in the Sea Of Thieves.

    One comic had someone literally kill 4 guys and steal their stuff in front of the shipwright.

  • For one thing, as much as this contributes to the risk-reward style of gameplay, if you play for an hour lets say racking up loot only to get outmatched in naval combat (or worse - have your ship sunk while in a vault or shrine) it feels awful to lose everything you worked for. It honestly feels like such a waste of time.

    Depends on how much Loot you decide to Rack up and hoard for so long. If it 5 chests or 20? Turn in often
    So it isn't a waste of time.

    As for Shrines, We have mermaid statue storage, so only thing you lost is a ship and w/e was on it.
    Vaults, Risk = Reward.

    Yes, you can play more conservatively, never raising Emissary flags, stopping at Outposts to sell every time you get a small bit of loot - basically trying to be less of a target; but we've all seen players who will rock up and sink a ship that's just spawned in!

    At least you are aware and know what the best action is. But nobody said you couldnt raise a flag.
    and I have only heard of these players, never encounter those who sink you just spawned in. Like how much time has even passed? 30seconds? 5min? Why are you still at an outpost way past the set sail date.

    Playing in fear all the time isn't fun.

    Have no fear then. But fear makes you more aware.
    Fear of dying makes you take less risks. Fear of losing makes you play safer. Without fear you be playing checkers.

    Firstly, Insurance

    Ive been on the forums a long time, this isn't new. Im sure Ive seen this used before...

    Imagine if you could pay an up-front cost to the Merchants or the Shipwright to get your ship Insured. The downside would be, if you don't get sunk or robbed, you bought it for nothing; but if your ship is sunk and your loot stolen, you get a percentage of gold when the loot is sold by whoever stole it, because it became insured when it was placed on your ship

    So 1, It worthless if you dont get sunk. 2. It only works if the enemy turns in your loot. So if you ever encounter those who just wanna sink you...you earn nothing. I dont like this by the fact you lose twice.
    And it Insurance....for what? You still earn gold by playing the game, Renown and Daily Deeds/Tasks. Not much but you still earn gold.

    It would mean players needn't feel so bad about losing a big haul as they'll still get something.

    Sigh...I feel this would just make players who sink you more likely to not bother selling. Just to make you pay for something you didn't need. :/
    So you be at fault once again for not turning in often because you lost that "big load" to some pirates...and
    what this about "feeling bad"? Im confused what game were playing now. Are players getting emotional over losing loot ingame?

    Secondly, Docking Privileges.

    Oh boy...

    While docked, if any other ship damages yours, or any other pirate attacks you, cannons on the outpost would begin firing at the attacker.

    Thus making a "safe place" with NPC with AI they tend to never miss a shot...

    They wouldn't have pinpoint accuracy, something between a seafort and a ghost ship - just enough to make the attacker think twice.

    Or they just keg your ship....and never think about anything but sinking you.

    This achieves two things. 1, it offers some level of protection for players just logging in

    Or none. Because we can still sink them regardless if something else is shooting. If clever and good crew, they can sink and get away. No protection but wasted time.

    And 2, it makes some level of sense for the Outpost to protect it's interests

    Outposts or rather the factions dont care about who or what pirate turns in what. I believe it part of the lore but not really talked about much. We help out the factions but they dont care if your a good or bad player, as long you turn stuff in.

    so why wouldn't they take the side of someone who payed for the privilege of docking there?

    Why even offer such a thing to begin with.

    Docked ships would have an additional flag to advertise it's protection, and said flag would sell highly to the Reaper's Bones.

    See now were just offering more rewards to do something, allow alliance to sink us and cash in bonus stuff.

  • I like the insurance idea as well, with a few modifications:

    • Only voyages are insurable, and only for the loot collected as a result of the voyage
    • Insurance is paid out at sink, not at sell; a significant number of PvPers are in it for the lulz, not the loot
    • Insurance is purchased from the Sovereigns; they seem like a bunch of shady dudes (“shy” + “ster” is blocked, interesting) anyway.

    I’m sure there are many ways this can be abused that I can’t think of, but it seems like a cool idea nevertheless.

  • @burnbacon
    Lot to unpack here. I'll try and respond in kind.

    Nobody said we couldn't raise a flag - true, but you can't deny it does make you a more tasty target for anyone looking to sell to the Reaper's Bones. Not raising one is to try and make yourself less of a target to them.
    You may have only heard of players sinking new spawned ships but I assure it happens. And how much time passed from spawning in? What, you can't spend a little time buying stuff?

    Now, the Insurance stuff.
    Yes, it would be worthless if you don't get sunk, that's the risk/reward part of it. Players who don't want to engage in PvP but know the likelihood of it happening could opt to take the risk of an upfront payment for the potential reward of compensation should they get sunk, but that risk is taken knowing that they may not be sunk at all. Just having that would make me feel more confident when sailing, certainly I wouldn't feel the need to run every time another ship started firing on me, I would actually engage with the Pvp side of the game I normally hate! Because I'd know that I wouldn't be losing everything.

    You do raise a good point about players who'd sink you just for having sunk you. I honestly don't get the mindset of a player who'd sink another with a ship full of loot, and then just leave the loot, but fair play, they do exist. For that scenario my suggestion would be that the insurance also pays out some money (again not what you would normally have got!) based on the level of Emissary flag you lost when your ship was sunk.

    Also your question "Insurance....for what? You still earn gold by playing the game, Renown and Daily Deeds/Tasks. Not much but you still earn gold."
    You said it yourself - not much. Certainly not a meaningful amount. You're insuring that your time spent doing voyages is safer than without insurance because you'd still get something.

    "Sigh...I feel this would just make players who sink you more likely to not bother selling. Just to make you pay for something you didn't need."
    While this is a fairly negative outlook, it is a point, which again makes me like the idea of insurance covering lost emissary flags.

    Lastly, Docking Privileges.
    Is there an issue with there being a "safe place" in this game? Should there really be nowhere that you can actually relax and feel you don't have to lookout for enemies every five minutes? Every other non-outpost island and all the sea in between is still fair game, I'm confused as to why you have a problem with there being safe havens. Not every player wants to get heavily involved in PvP and for them, fleeing is an option. But many players will chase you down to the ends of the earth, which often makes fleeing a not useful option at all. So having a destination to aim for helps that and puts pressure on the chasers to get their prey before they reach safe harbor. And even if they reach the outpost, the chaser can still attack! Which brings me to your next point:
    "NPC with AI they tend to never miss a shot..."
    You did read where I said they wouldn't be pinpoint accurate, right?

    The gunpowder keg is certainly something attackers could use as a loophole. However if they wanted to avoid being shot at by the outpost they'd have to initiate with it, and the crew of the target ship could be more prepared since they wouldn't be under a barrage of cannon fire. Yes, if the attacking crew is clever and experienced, they could sink and get away. But will every crew so that? Every single crew that wants to sink a ship is going to do the exact same thing are they? No. Therefore, you do get some protection.
    And it's not foolproof! The Outpost would not be super accurate! It's just a little help given to the docked ship who, I'll add, could not and did not initiate!

    "Outposts or rather the factions dont care about who or what pirate turns in what."
    That isn't the point I was trying to make. If a ship fires on a docked ship and misses, where is that cannonball going to go? The Outpost. Now I know in game it's not going to actually damage anything, but when you think about it from a more realistic perspective, why wouldn't the Outpost frown upon that? Therefore if the already docked ship had acquired some right to dock, it would make perfect sense for the Outpost to try and deter the attacking ship.

    "See now were just offering more rewards to do something"
    Yes! Risk/reward, remember? This time for both sides. By docking, the risk is making yourself a juicier target but the reward is added protection. By attacking a docked ship, the risk is increased hostility but the reward is better loot for the Reaper's Bones. Sounds pretty good to me from both sides.

    I do appreciate the feedback - sincerely. But I would ask, if you read my responses, could you let me know why you think these concepts are bad? Not my exact implementations of them, but just the concepts - they could be implemented differently for certain, I'm not saying my interpretation is perfect, but rather, what's wrong with the general ideas in and of themselves? Thanks.

  • @sn0kanon
    Thanks for the feedback! I think insuring voyages makes a ton of sense.
    The only reason I said for pay out to be at the sell is because theoretically, it's possible for you to recover your lost loot after you're sunk by another player - precisely because of the PvPers who just sink you for the lulz. In that case you'd get additional payout; not sure the best way to implement it but it's a good point.
    Sovereigns make sense, also it probably makes more sense for Insurance to only be available for Captained ships anyway.
    Cheers!

  • I really like the insurance idea. I would propose:
    5% for 5k Gold (Applicable to the whole ship, anyone can purchase)
    10% for 10k Gold. (Per crew member - available only for captains)
    25% for 25k Gold.(Per crew member - available only for captains)
    50% for 50k Gold.(Per crew member - available only for captains)
    ***75% for 150k (Per crew member, available only for captains who own legendary ships)

    You loose insurance as soon as you sink. Perhaps insurance could have a real world time limit as well, let's say lasts only for 2-3 hours(Average longest voyage duration). So treasure hoarding would not be the best idea.

    Then again, a lot of ideas seem great, however proper brainstorming would be required by Developers in order to avoid loop holes that would be classified as exploits and community could potentially face punishment for those flaws.

  • Do it per voyage, collect it at the Sovereign tent once (so if you sink mid-voyage and give up in disgust you can get a partial payout) and mark insured loot so that you can’t resell it once you’ve collected the insurance (that’s fraud, y’all 😉)

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