Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@entspeak 1st off, I am not the only one in here advocating for it. If I was, I would have dropped it 15 pages ago. Secondly "Why does there need to be balance there?" Because it is a game...it is entertainment, it is meant to be fun. I (as well as many others as evidenced by this thread, and others in the forum and other places) do not find it "fun" or "entertaining" to lose our progression when time has been invested (not talking about Gold). The balance I have already explained. As I already guessed you had no answers to what I stated before. There is no loss, and you were 100% correct, the attackers "loss" is irrelevant...because it doesn't exist! Poker is a terrible example, just sayin'.

The fact of the matter is, when another ship engages you, you have no idea whether or not they also have loot. In the same way, they have no idea if you have loot. That’s why what they stand to lose is irrelevant - what matters is your choices. There’s your balance. You don’t know what they stand to lose. They don’t know what you stand to lose. One of the things I constantly hear is players complaining that, when they attack another ship, that ship ends up having nothing on it, making the attack pointless. What makes this all seem unbalanced to you (and others sharing your opinion) is that you made the very bad choice to have tons of loot on your ship - that’s on you. That’s why it feels unbalanced.

So, the solution to the issue is: don’t travel with a ton of loot on your ship if you’re going to be upset at losing it. In my opinion, it’s just as bad a move to keep a ton of treasure on your ship if you’re not trying to engage other ships as it is to keep loot on your ship if you are trying to engage other ships.

But, you’re right about one thing... the fun. It is a game, after all, and I’m sure it’s no fun when you play the game poorly. But, as I said, that’s on you. The person depriving you of your fun is you. The devs are not responsible for your poor gameplay decisions. An “easy mode” to make your poor decision viable is not the answer.

To quote someone you might recognize in this forum, “Yup poo poo does occur...the beauty is much of that can be mitigated.” Very true. You should probably do more of that.

EDIT: Actually, hold up, hold up... I believe I just read that you would be okay with losing all your stuff and getting nothing if only the screen said Voyage Complete when you turned things in. Of course this means there’s really no substance to the argument, then, at all. And, I agree that it’s odd that, for OoS and GH missions, it does this - perhaps, another message is called for there. For Merchant missions, you don’t get Voyage Complete until you turn in all the items. This doesn’t mean you should get reputation before turning things in, but they should better indicate when, for all intents and purposes, the voyage is actually complete - at delivery.

I believe it is as it is because of the different nature of those two factions, which seem to be about bringing as much gold or skulls as you can and there is no set amount like you have with merchants. If you lose a chicken, you can potentially find a cage somewhere and get another chicken - even on a different island. The mission stays on the table until you deliver the goods - unlike with OoS and GH, you can’t choose another voyage without first going to an outpost. But, you will never be able to replace a lost chest or skull that you were supposed to get at a particular island, and so the voyage would never complete if you didn’t deliver. With Merchant, they eventually time out and the voyage goes away. So, yeah, it’s a clunky mechanic, so... best to take the message with a grain of salt and just know you’re going to get rep on delivery. Perhaps, what they should do is simply remove that message for those factions.

@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@entspeak I stopped reading at "when you play the game poorly". Bro, this is not a PvP argument, it is a time spent discussion. You have an elitist attitude. Your opinions have been noted, and I respect your opinions. I am simply not going to discuss this with someone that believes an open world game should be played a certain way...which happens to be his way. The ideas in this thread actually allow for a greater variety of strategy and tactics.

Don’t confuse my explaining that your decision is bad with saying you don’t have the choice to make that bad decision in an open world game. It’s just an extremely risky choice. Just because a game is “open world” doesn’t mean there should be success - or even partial success - for all choices. DayZ is an open world game. And, while a player could simply stroll down the middle of a road with military gear and tons of stuff they’ve spent hours gathering in their pack and blaring the radio, doesn’t mean that player should be rewarded for making such a poor choice when they get easily sniped by a player with virtually nothing on them except the weapon they killed the player with. “Oh, where is the balance?!” you’d say. The fact that sniper has only been in the game for 20 minutes and found a rifle would be irrelevant. What would be relevant is the fact that the player walking in the middle of the road made a poor choice... and to keep making that choice is to play the game poorly. You think that player should be able to keep some of that gear because of the time they spent gathering it? No. That isn’t elitist, it’s common sense.

But, again, you’ve already rendered your entire argument moot with the admission that, for you, the real problem is the “Voyage Complete” message. You just fail to realize that this message really only means your crew is now free to vote for another voyage if you have one available. It doesn’t mean you’ve earned anything, because the game is only set up to give rep and gold for your loot on delivery - because that’s how all the factions work and it makes sense that this is how it should work... because if you don’t deliver, it makes no sense for you to gain rep with factions that expect you to deliver them stuff.

So, perhaps, the solution is to require crews to deliver their goods on GH and OoS missions before allowing them to choose another one. Then, you’d be required to turn in that one Castaway - if that’s all there was on the voyage - before choosing another voyage. Sound fun?

I mean, the system of doing that makes sense for Merchant, because you can opt not to do a voyage for 2 White Feathered Chickens. But, I don’t think it would work for the others, because you don’t know what’s t kind of loot your getting from the start.

Frankly, there’s nothing really wrong with the system as it is. The problem really lies with those who want to make leveling work so that they can be like that guy stupidly strolling down the middle of the road with all their gear in DayZ.

@enpixelate Hate to break it to ya, but you are still over a month or so away. 42-50 is longer than 1-41.

This is why a change like is being proposed here is vital for the game's health and longevity. The grind + very unrewarding mechanic like total exp loss = players leaving the game.

I know the hardcore PvP griefers will hate the change because they "want to watch the world burn", but if changes dont happen they will be in servers by themselves wondering w*f went wrong.

@touchdown1504 Well, stating that I’m wrong without providing any explanation as to how or why is a weak way to approach an argument. So, I’ll just leave it there. Better things to do with my day - especially if you’re going to behave like a 5 year old and resort to name-calling. Enjoy your gameplay... or not, less... care... cou-

@touchdown1504 I have read the thread. I read where you quote the devs out of context to make it seem like what they’re saying supports your argument. I read where you deny that what your asking for is an “easy mode” simply because you never used those exact words - despite the fact that it is exactly what you’re asking for no matter how you phrase it. I read where you have the seemingly startling revelation that “Voyage Complete” actually doesn’t mean what you think it means... which I already said. Yep, the rep is based on the individual item being turned in and not “Voyage Complete.” “Voyage Complete” simply means your desk is empty and you can now select another voyage.

The problem with what your asking for is that it diminishes an important aspect of the game - one that is mentioned as being important in the article you selectively quoted: paranoia. If Rep is given at “Voyage Complete,” that paranoia is diminished because you care less if you lose a chest. That is not what the devs are looking for and the paranoia is what makes the game fun for people who are into that sort of thing - like me. (It’s also why PvE only servers make no sense for this game.) I like that I have to consider how much time I can spend on an island solving a riddle, how much time I can spend fighting waves of skelies, or looking for the one damned red speckled chicken that seems not to have spawned on this island full of every other kind of chicken. Why do I have to be paranoid about that? Because another crew may have spotted my ship and I may lose the stuff I have there (which is also why I never load things onto the ship, but tuck them away on the island until I’m ready to leave.) And, even then, I have my head on a swivel while sailing. If I see a galleon or sloop in the distance in the direction I want to go, I plot a course around - even if it’s a long way around. I use islands as a means of confusing other crews about the direction I may be heading. But what makes all this exciting is that paranoia... the fear that someone may take what I’ve spent a long time gathering. Now, you may say that this is great for me, but you want to be able to play a different way... or that casual gamers should just be able to hop on get some gold and progress without having to deal with that paranoia... but that’s just not the game. And, the good thing at least is that, since you’ve been making this argument since before release and the devs haven’t changed it, they aren’t likely to change it now.

This game is similar to DayZ in that it’s an open world game where your decisions impact whether or not you keep your current spoils. It’s nowhere near as punishing as DayZ because, as the devs point out in that article you picked from, you aren’t set back to complete zero - you keep the gold, reputation, and any purchases you’ve already gained. The point being that you haven’t earned the gold, reputation or the ability to make further purchases until you deliver. So, you only lose the potential to progress further with the loot currently on your ship.

Now, people may find the idea of losing their stuff to be not fun... they may not enjoy having to deal with the paranoia. But, then, I don’t find games where I throw down cards with monsters on them to be fun... so, I don’t play those games.

You keep childishly name-calling - calling me arrogant, elitist... but I’m really just a guy who enjoys the game that was designed with that aspect of paranoia. And you’re suggestion would diminish that enjoyment for me. It reduces the paranoia, it reduces the need to be careful, it makes one care less about the effort put into a voyage because you still get some reward for effort just by digging up a chest - which is only half the battle... the other half is keeping it safe until you get to an outpost.

It makes no sense for a faction that hinges on delivery to give any reward for not delivering. You do get some rep for participating in voyages and gathering things (just not much). But Pirate Legends are those who can deliver - either by doing the voyage and turning in the goods, or stealing it and turning in the goods.

That’s the game. Your suggestion is about how to make the game easier at the expense of an important element - paranoia. It’s about an easy mode where paranoia doesn’t have to play as much of a role, because at least you’ll get something. No. It’s a terrible idea.

I’d much rather the devs fix the bad chest/skull RNG so that doing a difficult voyage doesn’t feel pointless because you get a cheap chest/skull as the reward. That is what makes the voyages not fun. I found the Merchant voyages much more rewarding - though, at times more difficult when trying to dodge other crews and deliver on time. I’m willing to do that knowing that I’ve got $3k worth of animals on board. It’s harder to feel that way about five hard earned chests worth less than $1k. The idea that the lowest tier chicken is worth, sometimes, 3x as much on a voyage as the lowest tier chest is preposterous. That’s the area the devs need to focus on with regard to voyages... not some easy-mode because people want to be able to play casually and sail through the game (pun intended). There are ways to, as you’ve said, mitigate losses. People should focus on finding those.

@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@entspeak I agree the way payouts are done (chest vs animal, etc.) also needs fixing. So does the feeling of progression for time spent. I only skimmed your wall of text, because truthfully I still feel your attitude is that of an elitist (call it name calling I really don't care) it is what it is. Going through the thread again I sure don't see many that have the same opinion you are espousing. The devs quotes are not out of context...I posted the article link specifically to cover for that...but, perhaps you know what they meant to say and can enlighten all of us. I heard you, I have read your stuff, opinion noted.

Go read post #548. This is the exact reason I blow off your arguments. You will see this argument is not about PvP, PvP is simply an element that effects the system currently in place for progression.

Gold, at the end of the day, is meaningless to gameplay because having it or spending it doesn’t advance you in the game at all. The one thing that is important and, therefore, the loss of which would actually give you the “low low” that the article refers to is tying the loot to your progression - your experience points. Otherwise, you’ll never get that low low; you won’t experience that paranoia. Losing your loot will only mean you can’t buy that fancy spyglass, rifle, or bucket that will work exactly like the one you have now and will have zero influence on your gameplay or progression.

The difference they mention - what sets this game apart - from games like DayZ is that you are never set back to complete zero, so the “low low” is not as punishing. You don’t lose any gold, items or reputation you have already earned. But, you will still have to deal with the paranoia - the “high high” - part of which is achieved by the fact that you have spent so much time and effort - and strategize about how to get your stuff to the outpost without losing it. And that’s what the devs want players to do: strategize.

“There's a reason there's no fast travel, there's a reason you have to sail everywhere. It's because a ship isn't just going to come out of nowhere unless you've let it come out of nowhere. You've not paid attention, an enemy ship has literally just snuck up behind you because you've left your lights on at night. That's the kind of thing we'd love players to strategize over.”

This is what makes the game exciting... that need to be constantly vigilant, the need to strategize about how to deal with other crews. If you split the rewards and provide the only important reward - experience - to when you’ve finished digging or killing vs giving it upon delivery, you lose that. See sails on the horizon - just keep digging, just keep killing, at least we’ll get something and they’ll only get the least meaningful thing in the game from us - our gold. The only way to achieve the “high high” the devs are looking for players to hit emotionally in the game is to attach the “low low” to something meaningful in the game... and that is reputation. What makes a ship valuable is that you need it in order to deliver the loot. If you split the rewards, screw the ship, we’re going to get the only thing really worth getting anyway. That’s ruins the vision of the game.

I don’t see post numbers on my phone and I’m not going to count 548 posts, so if there’s something there that refutes what I’ve just said, then quote it or post a link to that post.

Yeah, it’s literally name-calling - care or don’t care. Such arguing tactics certainly don’t give you credibility as it is usually what is resorted to when you can’t actually rebut an argument. Enjoying one of the vital aspects of the game is hardly elitist. Perhaps, you should examine what that word actually means, because I don’t think it means what you think it does.

@touchdown1504 Yep. Just had a scenario actually play out not even 20 minutes ago.

I was going for the 20 chest achieve. I had 18 chests. Successfully fought off another crew. Ran from another. Weathered a storm. Killed countless skeletons.

I disconnected. Zero progression made due to the disconnect after 2 hours of work.

Its a horrible feeling.

This had nothing to do with git gud or scared of PvP or anything else about being a bad player. Its has everything to do with an extremely unforgiving system that needs to be fixed.

@skyewauker said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@touchdown1504 Yep. Just had a scenario actually play out not even 20 minutes ago.

I was going for the 20 chest achieve. I had 18 chests. Successfully fought off another crew. Ran from another. Weathered a storm. Killed countless skeletons.

I disconnected. Zero progression made due to the disconnect after 2 hours of work.

Its a horrible feeling.

This had nothing to do with git gud or scared of PvP or anything else about being a bad player. Its nothing but a s**t system in place.

Nope. Had everything to do with a server issue or a bug. It happens. The bugs need to be fixed and server stability addressed... but, you don’t alter a fundamental aspect of the game because of a bug.

@entspeak

So a server issue or bug should lead to 100% of a play sessions progress loss. You just confirmed it.

There is no arguing or reasoning with stupidity and ignorance.

I am adding you to the list with coconut and will be returning to get my 7 chuckles once they fix this, because believe me, they will.

And losing progress goes AGAINST the fundamentals of any progression based game. It is like losing experience in WoW due to getting ganked in PvP.

Like I said, ignorance. It's really hard to continue discussions when someone thinks that this is okay.