Why?

  • Menoob

    Sea of Thieves is simply a beautiful and atmospheric game. Upon loading the game, the desire to explore is beckoning. However, that desire dies within an hour. I am confused to the what and why behind the core gameplay mechanic.

    As it stands, the game like lacking the why in "Why should I play this game?". Objectively there is little to no reason to play for the vast majority of gamers. At the moment there are two main groups of players that would be interesting in jumping into the pirate life. The PvP gamers and the PvE gamers.

    PvE
    Folks who are standard PvE player would be the most disappointed of the two groups. Unlike most games that offer some semblance of adventuring the absolute lack of progression outside of a meaningless rank gives the average player no incentive to play or to continue playing. The world is full of nothing and that is not to be taken lightly.

    Why should I do these menial tasks?
    To get gold.
    Why do I want gold?
    To change my appearance.

    That is simply not a sustainable nor meaningful gaming experience for most of the gaming populous. There is truly no meaningful rewards or purpose to playing. This is the fundamentals of gaming that has been severely overly looked. I listen to the developer updates and this problem has yet to be addressed. Newer content without a solid implementation of a risk reward component is useless. I cannot understate this problem and its a problem that has been echoed throughout the internet but not much is being done to address it.

    PvP
    Pvpers are stuck in a strange place. They would like to engage in combat with other players but they are left with the burden of finding these players. This structureless PvP implementation is simply going to leave PvP players starved for an experience. Gamers shouldn't be spending unknown amounts of time to experience an encounter and hope that the encounter was worth the wait. Create an in game lobby for pirates to actively engage each other. Battle Arena island where pirates meet to part take in planned battle events. Not leave the player in hopes of finding another person and hoping that other person offers the challenge that they are pursuing.

    I know that Sea of Thieves is trying to be different. But being different for the sake of being different is not a viable strategy if the core gameplay mechanics are overlooked. I seen this similar pattern in Paragon, Lawbreakers and Fable Legends. What made it worse is the developers unwillingness to change and the small fanbase that cannot sustain the game blindly defending it.

    Sea of Thieves has the potential to be a stellar game that offers an experience unlike any other game. However, the current philosophy behind the game is not sustainable and lacks mass appeal, which the game needs in order to continue to exist in the long run. Rare, don't allow that to happen to this game.

    PS: Nothing I have stated is really new.

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  • HellHammer3571
    Marauder
    Insider

    @menoob I feel like the « linear progression » is what make this game so « Boring ». In any other game you’d play to get better gear etc and when you have it you can feel proud. You can’t feel proud about anything in SoT.
    To me, this kind of progression doesn’t fit the game.
    Just enjoy it as it is as long as you can !

  • WC MattMon
    Marauder

    It's designed this way so that everyone is on even footing from word go, I will admit however that there is a lack of "solid" content, but they themselves said this is a "casual adventure game", in other words, it's not the destination that matters, it's the journey, the game is what you and your friends/randoms make of it, though, they are planning to start bringing in content, like Hungering Deep is coming soon, they said that at launch they were going to focus the first few months of patches on almost strictly performance and bugs, honestly, I like the way they've done the "progression" system, it's made this a game that you play because you want to, not because you feel you have to else you fall behind, like in ESO, destiny or virtually any other online RPG

    If I was asked to give a review, I'd probably say something like this "Admittedly, as it stands, this game lacks solid content, so if you prefer games that give you a linear story and questlines, so that you will always have an objective set for you, you will not like this game, if, however, you enjoy paving your own way, setting your own goals, wether that be getting to pirate legend asap or just cruising along having a laugh with friends, or even sailing solo and just enjoying the quiet with the gentle rock of the sea, lapping of waves, you will enjoy it... It's essentially a choose your own adventure game on boats with a pirate theme"...

    To each their own, if you don't like it, that's fine, if you do, that's fine too, and there's always room for improvement, in all things

  • Menoob

    @xxxhellhammer said in Why?:

    @menoob I feel like the « linear progression » is what make this game so « Boring ». In any other game you’d play to get better gear etc and when you have it you can feel proud. You can’t feel proud about anything in SoT.
    To me, this kind of progression doesn’t fit the game.
    Just enjoy it as it is as long as you can !

    Well you see there is nothing to enjoy at the moment. There is no purpose in exploring or adventuring at the moment. Every hidden path, cave or uncharted island leads to the same results. Nothing. Added to the lack of meaningful rewards is the dead world.

    @wc-mattman said in Why?:

    It's designed this way so that everyone is on even footing from word go, I will admit however that there is a lack of "solid" content, but they themselves said this is a "casual adventure game", in other words, it's not the destination that matters, it's the journey, the game is what you and your friends/randoms make of it, though, they are planning to start bringing in content, like Hungering Deep is coming soon, they said that at launch they were going to focus the first few months of patches on almost strictly performance and bugs, honestly, I like the way they've done the "progression" system, it's made this a game that you play because you want to, not because you feel you have to else you fall behind, like in ESO, destiny or virtually any other online RPG

    If I was asked to give a review, I'd probably say something like this "Admittedly, as it stands, this game lacks solid content, so if you prefer games that give you a linear story and questlines, so that you will always have an objective set for you, you will not like this game, if, however, you enjoy paving your own way, setting your own goals, wether that be getting to pirate legend asap or just cruising along having a laugh with friends, or even sailing solo and just enjoying the quiet with the gentle rock of the sea, lapping of waves, you will enjoy it... It's essentially a choose your own adventure game on boats with a pirate theme"...

    To each their own, if you don't like it, that's fine, if you do, that's fine too, and there's always room for improvement, in all things

    I think you are missing what I am talking about. I am not saying that the game should have some clear linear path for the player to participate in. I am talking about meaningful engagement with the world. At the moment there isn't. There is a lack of purpose and meaningful play. There are many games that are just fun to soley explore and the reason they are fun to explore is because the game gives meaningful feedback and rewards to the players. Rewards comes in many form factors ranging from newly discover locations being added to your map to unlocking hidden treasures.

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    I'm sorry but there are plenty of games that have horizontal progression and cosmetic only reward systems that are doing fantastically well.

    This is a weak argument to say that SoT will die because of this route. It is short sighted. The game is far from dead.

    SoT may not be for you if you require power progression. You will not be getting it with SoT.

    Bye Felicia.

    Can you share these games you speak of?
    Also I never mention anything about a specific progression system or a power progression system.

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    You are talking about meaningful rewards, aka power and upgrades which SoT will not be having.

    Clearly you have not heard of Fortnite, PubG, Path of Exile, Guilds Wars 2, just to name a few. All of those games are cosmetic only.

    People need to quit coming in here and think that SoT is going to be Black Flag or PotCo, it isn't.

    It is a casual game, with a pirate themed sandbox that will drip feed us content over time.
    Firstly I am not talking about rewards being power or upgrades.

    Fortnite and PUBG has structured PvP Sea of Thieves doesn't. This was mentioned in my original post.
    Path of Exile and Guild Wars 2 have so much systems for upgrading and are both traditional MMORPG and does not fit into the formula of cosmetic only. In fact Guild Wars 2 world exploration is possibly the best on the market for any MMO. So, just to make it clear Path of Exile and Guild Wars 2 are NOT cosmetic only games. That is simply an incorrect statement.

    You seem to missing the point that the game lacks meaningful engagement. The world offers nothing to the player. Exploration is factually meaningless because it gives the player absolutely nothing. You reference Guild Wars 2 which sports so much world elements that adds so much progression free gameplay that it amazes me that you try to bundle it in the same category as Sea of Thieves.

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob They are all still cosmetic only and those cosmetics do not do a thing.

    What you are arguing is that SoT just needs more mechanics to add depth to the gameplay and more things to make the world feel alive and I agree.

    I will never agree with buying upgrades or power in any fashion.

    Path of Exile and Guild Wars 2 have a traditional progression system. Why are you trying to state they are cosmetic only games when they are not?

    If you agree with what I am saying why are you arguing things that are incorrect and not related to what I am saying?

  • Viejvs
    Marauder
    Insider

    The sandbox spirit of this game is the essence, the most purist sandboxes are like that. The content will arrive. Apart I do not know any game that has the features of SoT.

    It will seem silly but the first thing I look at a Sandbox is if it allows me to drop items on the floor, and without levels or history. That freedom and those details are what I'm passionate about.
    It seems the world upside down, does not it?
    Instead there are people who look for something like MHW.

    Variety is the spice of life.

  • Tyburn Ketch

    And variety is what is sorely missing in SOT right now.

    I’m hopeful that changes - in a way the community would like.

  • TwiZteDKarrTooN
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    Same with everygame, why rank up to earn points why points to buy new cosmetics and items. You just dont like how hard it is to beat the game, its the same as all the others and really good too. Not boring at all sep alliance missions. Thanks for the hate tho. Pretty sure hate is jealousy

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob said in Why?:

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob They are all still cosmetic only and those cosmetics do not do a thing.

    What you are arguing is that SoT just needs more mechanics to add depth to the gameplay and more things to make the world feel alive and I agree.

    I will never agree with buying upgrades or power in any fashion.

    Path of Exile and Guild Wars 2 have a traditional progression system. Why are you trying to state they are cosmetic only games when they are not?

    If you agree with what I am saying why are you arguing things that are incorrect and not related to what I am saying?

    Mate, the end game of these games is Fashion. It is ALL about the cosmetics. I forgot another one while I'm at it. Warframe.

    It is also a cosmetic only game.
    You are confusing end game and the existence of cosmetics to cosmetics only. Path of Exile and Guild Wars 2 are factually not cosmetic only games. Why do you continue to argue something that is factually incorrect?

    Cosmetic only games are Fortnite, PUBG and Overwatch. They succeed because the game mechanic facilitates structured meaningful engagement which Sea of Thieves currently lacks. A player doesn't need to find things to do in these games. They are immediately place in a hostile situation with other players creating quick and meaningful engagement.

    Sea of Thieves not only lacks that feature on the PvP front but has nothing of substance for PvE.

  • Menoob

    @viejvs said in Why?:

    The sandbox spirit of this game is the essence, the most purist sandboxes are like that. The content will arrive. Apart I do not know any game that has the features of SoT.

    It will seem silly but the first thing I look at a Sandbox is if it allows me to drop items on the floor, and without levels or history. That freedom and those details are what I'm passionate about.
    It seems the world upside down, does not it?
    Instead there are people who look for something like MHW.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    You say variety is the spice of life but Sea of Thieves currently lacks variety. This a game with one humanoid enemy type, snakes, sharks and if you are lucky Kraken. That's it. The average player would be killing more skeletons than snakes, sharks or Kraken.

    If they game is to be truly sandbox then it should look at games like Breath of the Wild.

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob No one cares mate. You're not getting power progression and upgrades.

    Have you realise that you are the one that stated power progression and upgrades? I have not. Yet like you falsely state Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile are cosmetic only games you are falsely stating things that I have not. If you do not care then you can ignore this thread otherwise you are contradicting yourself.

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob Breath of the Wild is not a sandbox game. It is an Open World, Adventure, RPG.

    SoT is not this kind of game. You are to take the tools and mechanics Rare gives you and make your own goals and fun.

    THAT is a sandbox.

    No goals, no directive, no objectives.

    You are wrong again. This game has objectives. This game has quests. You are told what and where to go when given a quest. Please do not try to rewrite the game to fit your agenda.

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob You are talking about meaningful upgrades and items. That translates to power progression and upgrades.

    Nope. Please re-read.

  • Menoob

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob said in Why?:

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob Breath of the Wild is not a sandbox game. It is an Open World, Adventure, RPG.

    SoT is not this kind of game. You are to take the tools and mechanics Rare gives you and make your own goals and fun.

    THAT is a sandbox.

    No goals, no directive, no objectives.

    You are wrong again. This game has objectives. This game has quests. You are told what and where to go when given a quest. Please do not try to rewrite the game to fit your agenda.

    Breath of the Wild is still not a sandbox game.

    It is more of a Sand Box game than Sea of Thieves. :)

  • Viejvs
    Marauder
    Insider

    @menoob The content will arrive. And Breath of the Wild is not a sandbox, It is an Open World RPG Action. By the way, an overrated game, a dead and empty open world.

    Compare a single player game like Zelda with an online multiplayer sandbox is As different as chalk and cheese

  • Menoob

    @viejvs said in Why?:

    @menoob The content will arrive. And Breath of the Wild is not a sandbox, It is an Open World RPG Action. By the way, an overrated game, a dead and empty open world.

    You say Breath of the Wild is dead and empty yet you have no quibbles with Sea of Thieves? There is no arguing BOTW is overrated but don't try to argue that its dead and empty while we play Sea of Thieves.

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob said in Why?:

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob You are talking about meaningful upgrades and items. That translates to power progression and upgrades.

    Nope. Please re-read.

    No thanks, it's all the same stuff that's been on the forum for months and months. Stuff that has come up in development paths multiple times over and Rare has told the lot to basically shove it, except they are being all professional about it and they still persist.

    It is nothing new. It is the same tired arguments that have been covered countless times over.

    It's time to go back to complaining about PvE servers and Solo Modes.

    You constantly keep mistating my point. I am not sure why. You keep saying something I did not say. You also keep stating false statements even when you are corrected. As I have mentioned earlier blindly supporting a game is dangerous for the longterm support of an online only game.

  • Viejvs
    Marauder
    Insider

    @menoob be patient, the content is on the way. But for now there are many things to do with friends, you can mark your own achievements, such as taking 50 chickens and 50 barrels of gunpowder and crashing into a galleon, it is truly beautiful with classical music background.

  • Menoob

    @viejvs said in Why?:

    @menoob be patient, the content is on the way. But for now there are many things to do with friends, you can mark your own achievements, such as taking 50 chickens and 50 barrels of gunpowder and crashing into a galleon, it is truly beautiful with classical music background.
    I have other games to play so there is no need for patience on my end. However, the people who are needed to keep this game alive would not have the time or care for patience when there are other games to play. Thus the reason I am voicing my concern.

    I am an explorer type so stashing chickens and barrels are not my kind of fun. :)

  • SLOWFOSHOW
    Seafarer

    The huge difference with Fortnite and PUBG is that they have seperate modes for PVP and PVE, they have far more content and as @Menoob said it is set up so that players get straight into the action as soon as they are in the game, there are quests, daily quests, weekly quests, the visual upgrades are superior to anything in SOT, there are rewards and visual progression from everything that you do, and this is from a free to play game, nevermind a game that we have paid $60 for.

  • Viejvs
    Marauder
    Insider

    @slowmonutkick dijo en Why?:

    The huge difference with Fortnite and PUBG is that they have seperate modes for PVP and PVE...

    Better say that the only thing that looks like it is that they are videogames too.

  • SLOWFOSHOW
    Seafarer

    @viejvs said in Why?:

    @slowmonutkick dijo en Why?:

    The huge difference with Fortnite and PUBG is that they have seperate modes for PVP and PVE...

    Better say that the only thing that looks like it is that they are videogames too.

    SOT is clearly taking ideas from Fortnite and Pubg and adding its own twist, the problem is that it just didn't work, the cosmetics which should be the main source of progression and income in the future, leave a lot to be desired. Imagine the Fortnite map with 12 players in it and without the end game scenario and you have what SOT is, big, empty, boring and quite frankly there is no excuse for it, severely lacking in content.

  • Bearcubbin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @menoob You could not be more wrong about this. Sorry.

  • Nefrit Od
    Master
    Insider

    @menoob написал в Why?:

    @personalc0ffee said in Why?:

    @menoob You are talking about meaningful upgrades and items. That translates to power progression and upgrades.

    Nope. Please re-read.

    Dude you'r talking to "walls" they don't read what you saying )))

  • Viejvs
    Marauder
    Insider

    @slowmonutkick dijo en Why?:

    @viejvs said in Why?:

    @slowmonutkick dijo en Why?:
    SOT is clearly taking ideas from Fortnite and Pubg and adding...

    Well we have to be playing different games because I do not see any resemblance.

    That you do not see more ships is temporary, there is no infrastructure to add more population, but they will add it later. the servers support many more players than you see. Rumors point to 100 simultaneous players or more. but as is logical with only one event and 20 islands still can not.

    I mainly see that part of the community does not understand well the sandbox genre.

    For me the Fortnite and the Pubg are garbage for automata.
    but this is just my opinion.

  • Boldgame
    Captain
    Founder

    I realy like the way Rare made it, the freedom it gives. No level grinding stress, no carracter progression so no desissions to make in witch you get good and witch you have to let fall. Perfect pvp pve ballance. Never know what a playsession will bring. For me it's the game I've been waiting for since I started playing mmo like games in 2013.

    Thank you Rare for making this game and all the desissions you made.

  • Puddlez69
    Ship Mate

    @boldgame amen. Well spoken. I agree with everything you just said. I love that my whole career in this game is basically pirating other players and doing skull forts. I hate linear style grindy mmos that you basically have to play non stop to keep up with the hardcore players.

  • MacDoland
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @menoob I get your concerns. Exploration is a part of the game I hope they flesh out because it's the part of any game I value the most. It's a difficult challenge for a game like this, it's definitely been designed in a manner in which things to do are not exhausted (repetition focused) so liner story lines and one time things are absent.

    What I would say is the game in it's current state is like the stage they have prepared for the show. Reasons to do things and things to do should hopefully improve as the weekly events and updates occur. The game at its core is trying to get you to interact with other people, be it your crew or other crews and as more things are added to encourage that, the better.

    Don't take that as me defending the game or anything, I'm merely stating what I think it is. I'll leave it to you to judge whether or not you feel that's an okay thing to have after release.

    I think it's important to have an avenue to provide feedback, I just think a number of people are getting tired of reading the same feedback. That in itself is sign enough that there is some work to do, regardless if what is being asked for will or will not improve the game.

    I wouldn't place myself in either PVE or PVP camps, as I participate in both regularly, and I find reasons to play nightly and have fun every session. So I may already be coming at this from a different point of view from you, but I do agree that more stuff to do is very welcome. Further reasons to explore. More reasons to be out there for encounters to occur.

    Personally, my concerns around the future of the seas were alleviated somewhat during the content road map video. I think if you really don't enjoy whats on offer now, by all means offer feedback, but I would recommend not struggling on with it. Take a wee break and come back once the weekly events begin and give it a go, see if it's more your cup of tea. I mean that in the least dismissive way possible.

  • SteelRoots55
    Marauder
    Insider

    PVP players should be a lot more disappointed. This is not a pvp game.

  • SLOWFOSHOW
    Seafarer

    I don't believe that SOT is a bad game, I was in awe when I first played it, I believed that I had found my next everquest/wow, one of those games that I would play for years.

    Microsoft/Rare should have waited for all of the daily/weekly quest systems were up and running before release, the cosmetics should also be more inspiring instead of being a different colour scheme on the same boat, or a few hats that don't, I want to stand out as a pirate, I want things that glow and are shiny, something thats so hard to get that only I have it.

  • Wicked Ez 71
    Marauder
    Insider

    Seeing as this thread is named why?

    Why is there an imagined even playing field where a noob player is on par with a legend? what kind of reward is cosmetics?
    Of course cosmetics should be a part of the game and a progression for them is right on the money...
    However real gamers want to get better weapons armors skills health etc as a reward for all the time they put into character progression...
    It also stands to reason that it should be so, because as players progress the monsters get more difficult while the character remains the same. This is regression your player although growing in level gets weaker against the environment the game subjects you to.
    This is an exercise in futility and really is quite an insult and only adds to the disappointment of those playing a game which could and should be more than it is...

    As you know many have left the game because of it...

    Why was crossplay implemented in a game striving for a level playing field?

    This is the biggest joke of all... Subjecting xboxone users to play with PC players whom themselves admit hold a great advantage over console users. Then to further add insult to injury console users also have to contend with PC players using hacks. Why???

    There is no level playing field!!!
    Give it a burial nice idea no way it's possible..
    Unless you want to eliminate crossplay atleast by choice...

    Rare has made a game for PC players who are the minority to walk over console users...

    Why is there no npc content on islands and at sea aside from the same boring skeletons?

    How many pirates fought skeletons?

    Pirates were not all equals on a ship...

    Why does Rare think all are equal in a crew?

    How many Pirate ships had no real Captain?

    This leads to some other real problems of crew griefing making it so you can't even play the game... Have the server recognize the character with the greatest completion of game and also track reputation. Keep track of treasure thrown away, damage to own ship, number of times thrown in brig etc... Use that to assign a Capitain and gain some control over a crew with real consequences for behavior and rewards for diligence...

    I'm going to stop here I guess...
    But could go on and on and on...

    I, like the the author of the thread...
    find my self asking why?
    why??
    why???

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