Double Gun Discussion

  • Xirinorox
    Seafarer
    Insider

    Greetings!

    Well i thnik they DG as it is, is just to Strong because i have the feeling that as a Sword user you have no chance to get even close to a DG user and i want to talk about how to Actually Balance Stuff.
    My Idea is to Give Guns that have the same Ammo type (Sniper/Blunder/Pistol) a shared ammo capacity and and Kinves and Blowpipe have their own ammo type to give Player a reason to actually use these.

    Would love to hear you opionios on this Topic, and maybe some Ideas how you would Handle this?

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  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    @xirinorox

    There are plenty of ways to get close to a double gunner, you just can't hold W and run straight at them.

    You can ENAS/bait shots, use cover, pre-eat their shots. You can stack naval pressure on them until they have no choice but to bucket. You can swap to your secondary ranged weapon and fight them like that, then move in while they eat.

    Swords are brokenly strong and stacked with utility, guns are almost balanced against them.

  • Jon Sea Nah
    Master
    Insider

    How is double gunning broken?

    I’m not throwing shade but those of you asking for Dblgun to be removed, do you count the opponents shots, when they eat, what they eat, etc?

    I generally run sword/EOR ever since the blunder “busting” nerf. I generally won’t push you until I land an EOR shot and if a pineapple comes out I wait. I reserve sword for when I am forced up close or can close the distance myself. You can watch very prominent and high level streamers running sword.

    HG is generally dblgun only, but it’s widely accepted in that community that the sword and blunder and viewed similar to the “noob tube”.

    Sword is a very OP weapon if you know how to leverage it.

  • DerMasterBob
    Commander
    Insider

    I dont like the idea of nerfing pistol/sniper/blunder dublegunn, in order for other weapons to be used more.
    The sword is already good enough, if you know how to use it, in combination with the secondary weapon.
    The other weapons should rather be buffed, so theres an actual reason to use them.

    Leave dublegunn alone.
    Its been messed with to much already, we are currently still recovering from the previous removal of QS and all the problems that change brought to the game.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    because i have the feeling that as a Sword user you have no chance to get even close to a DG user

    There a big topic on the forums talking that Sword is too powerful and needs nerfing.

    Majority of the replies here will be how DG is fine and not the issue but. “Skill issue” but second DG is messed with. Skill is no longer the issue it’s the game. XD

  • EligibleEel6171
    Marauder

    It felt like for a while, a lot more people were using the sword. After recent changes, it seems to be going back to more people double gunning.

    For me, it's not so much about balance, or who's winning the fight. I don't think I was winning any more fights against sword users. I just really enjoy having sword fights (regardless of whether I win or lose), and I'm sad that it's not happening as much any more.

    I can't help but wonder how many people choose their weapons based on what they find most fun, vs what makes them most likely to win.

    I think what I'd really like to see is for there to be no meta. I'd like there to be no objectively best weapon choice that most people use, so when someone boards me (or vice versa) I don't know what I'm coming up against.

    Maybe instead of trying to balance all the weapons perfectly, there could be a kind of "rock paper scissors" type balancing where X is good against Y, Y is good against Z, Z is good against X? Then you board someone, kill them because you've got loadout X and they've got loadout Y, but then they switch their loadout on the ferry to Z and suddenly it's much harder for you. I think this would add an additional element of strategy and encourage exploring and getting good with all weapons.

  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    @eligibleeel6171

    I can't help but wonder how many people choose their weapons based on what they find most fun, vs what makes them most likely to win.

    People like different things, nothing beats the dopamine of hitting a clean tap imo. Sword fights to me are boring and seem like a coin flip of whose block actually registers.

    The resurgence of double gun is probably more due to people that quit over frustration with the qs removal, coming back to the game, vs sword users swapping to double gun.

    Maybe instead of trying to balance all the weapons perfectly, there could be a kind of "rock paper scissors" type balancing where X is good against Y, Y is good against Z, Z is good against X? Then you board someone, kill them because you've got loadout X and they've got loadout Y, but then they switch their loadout on the ferry to Z and suddenly it's much harder for you. I think this would add an additional element of strategy and encourage exploring and getting good with all weapons.

    This was already how it was before all the weapon changes came starting with the removal of quickswap.

    Sniper/pistol countered sniper/blunder countered sword/gun countered sniper/pistol.

  • MisereNZ
    Captain
    Insider

    @worst-tdmer
    What is the better load out all depends on who you are fighting, where and if you have the chance to be sneaky. Sword/gun has never outright countered sniper/pistol. If they are at a distance there is no way to cover that distance if they have clear line of sight and half decent aim.

    But, changing the coding to stop quick swap does seem like wack a mole and a can of worms for other bugs. Balance is better reached via design instead. We may already have that balance, but that is a matter of opinion more than fact. A combination of:

    I like the suggestion of a common ammo for fire arms. If that happened it would have to be less than 10 otherwise there is no change but it certainly should be higher than 5. 8 seems a good number, that is one less shot per gun while giving double gunners 3 extra shots on their fav distance weapon before reloading. But if you are rocking one gun you only get 4.

    Make reloading take a little longer at the ammo box or by picking up ammo.

    Blunder knock back scales with the number of pellets that hit. E.g 1, none/drop off ladder, 2/ stun, 3 25% current,...8, 100% current.

    Pistol/EOR = 95% health.

    Sword hits reduced to 20, to blance above so now takes a extra hit.

    Harpoon stuns players so swors user have time to switch.

  • DerMasterBob
    Commander
    Insider

    @miserenz said in Double Gun Discussion:

    Pistol/EOR = 95% health.

    This change would mean you cant kill someone with that weapon combination anymore.
    At least not if they have mangos or better food.
    Thats incredibly unbalanced/unfair, even if the sword was nerfed to 20 damage per hit.

    Your suggestions for weapon balancing are very onesided.
    You suggest that 2 guns shouldnt be able to kill a player anymore, plus they have 8 ammo across 2 guns and in exchange the sword needs 1 hit more?
    If you really want to balance your suggestions, the sword needs to be nerfed accordingly.
    20 damage per hit, no stunlock and it needs a stamina bar.
    Now its balanced, but noone can kill anyone anymore, so we need to also nerf food for this change to work.

    Just leave the old weapons alone, they are balanced enough.
    Buff the new weapons like the duble barrel pistol.
    Maybe lower blunderknockback and in exchange reduce spread, make it nine bullets that deal 10 damage or increase damage to 100 again.
    Everything else is too much work and makes everyone unhappy in the end.

  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
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    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @Worst-TDMer @MisereNZ Please avoid engaging in personal arguments and derailing the topic of the thread. It is fine to debate the content of the post, and the viewpoints therein, but disrespecting any of your fellow pirates personally is against the pirate code, and our forum rules.

    If you are incapable of avoiding bickering like children, please take it to DM's.

    Posts have been removed.

  • heslashthem
    Champion
    Insider

    @xirinorox

    My Idea is to Give Guns that have the same Ammo type (Sniper/Blunder/Pistol) a shared ammo capacity and and Kinves and Blowpipe have their own ammo type to give Player a reason to actually use these.

    As much as I’d like this idea the complexity just doesn’t feel like it’d fit into the casual PvP gameplay style. Maybe I’m wrong.

  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    @look-behind-you

    Don't think I said anything close to disrespectful to that guy, but sure.

  • Capt Greldik
    Master

    @xirinorox said in Double Gun Discussion:

    Greetings!

    Well i thnik they DG as it is, is just to Strong because i have the feeling that as a Sword user you have no chance to get even close to a DG user and i want to talk about how to Actually Balance Stuff.
    My Idea is to Give Guns that have the same Ammo type (Sniper/Blunder/Pistol) a shared ammo capacity and and Kinves and Blowpipe have their own ammo type to give Player a reason to actually use these.

    Would love to hear you opionios on this Topic, and maybe some Ideas how you would Handle this?

    When you say sword user, do you mean someone who only uses sword? These discussions often seem to consist of comparisons of one weapon, sword, versus two weapons, guns. Shouldn’t two weapons always be better than one weapon?

    I get the impression that a lot of people think that their one sword should be as good as two guns.

    Use a second weapon?

  • Xirinorox
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @capt-greldik
    Usally i go Sword/Snipe

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