Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea and has always been an exploit. Don't put it back. Don't cater to the cheaters and exploiters. That isn't what will bring players back, it's what will make current players never come back. Are you going to rebalance eating times as well? What about sword swipes? Are you going to rebalance the time it takes to do everything in the game or are you just buffing the thing that exploiters exploit? At this point, just put funny launch back into the game. You already said funny launch isn't bannable, so why not just make it a real feature? Funny launch was considered an exploit, just like quick swap. Every version of both of them have always been patched, as exploits. Stop catering to the loud sweats who don't actually play the game.
Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back.
Says the self-proclaimed grapple/sword user đ
In all seriousness, I donât see how itâs such a big deal. Quickswap was nerfed in October 2023 and the playerbase was considerably larger at that time. At least based on Steam numbers. Does that mean I think the playerbase was larger because quickswap was still a thing? No not really, but it doesnât seem like its existence was much of a detriment to the playerbase.
When I started playing someone told me that thereâs a method to make the swapping animation feel smoother, so I learned it, itâs application is also similar to an animation cancel that a game called New World had (new world made the âexploitâ official too eventually). I had no idea that people had a negative opinion of the quickswap method, nor did I even know it was called quickswap. It wasnât until several months later when I went to these forums to see what was being done about cheating that I saw post about quickswap. Does that make me a cheater? When they nerfed quickswap I didnât care, I still donât care. The quickswap method currently is so insignificant that I barely ever make a point of using it. Good players are still going to win under any iteration of swapping speed, reverting to the older swap speed isnât going to change that.
I get that itâs unpopular for various reasons though, I mean we even have people on these forums advocating for no double gunning, period, regardless of swap speed.
Iâm guessing your HG fights consist of sailing in a circle as a solo while grapple boarding then going to town with left click, based on some of your previous post, so I guess I can see how you might view this is a negative to your tactics, but people were swordlording just fine prior to the quickswap nerf(s).
@potatosord I really like the idea of faster weapon swapping. Hereâs why I think itâs a good move for the game:
1. Fights feel way more fluid â Fast swaps make combat feel dynamic and rewarding. Youâre not stuck waiting through slow animations, so every action actually matters.
2. Skill matters more â Players with better reactions and timing are rewarded. It keeps the gameplay challenging and fun instead of being about who waits out the slow animations better.
3. Encourages creative combat â Faster swaps let players mix up strategies, use swords and grapples more creatively, and generally keep fights unpredictable.
4. Less frustration â Slow swaps can feel punishing in PvP because you die to animation limits, not poor decisions. Faster swaps give a sense of control and fairness.
5. Feels modern â Most modern PvP games have some form of animation canceling or quick switching. Speeding up swaps keeps Sea of Thieves feeling fresh and competitive.Overall, faster swap speed makes the game feel smoother, more skill-based, and just plain more fun.
Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea and has always been an exploit.
Quickswap was a great mechanic that added depth to gun combat, and was gotten rid of because Rare wanted to cater to new/casual players. They've changed their stance on this (along with a bunch of other things, FoV, ban enforcement, insiders) after realizing all their attempts have failed to bring in new players and instead caused their core player base to bleed for 5 straight years.
What about sword swipes?
If they rebalanced sword swipes, you would not like the outcome lol. Most sword users are in denial about how broken it actually is.
or are you just buffing the thing that exploiters exploit?
Double gun has needed a buff regardless. From hit reg, gun jams, inconsistent blunder spread/knockback, and strength of swords; using guns is far too clunky.
You already said funny launch isn't bannable, so why not just make it a real feature? Funny launch was considered an exploit, just like quick swap.
Following this logic, why not remove sword lunging? That was also an exploit/"unintended feature" for years until Rare officially accepted it. Regardless funny launch is FPS dependent and console players can't do it, which makes it an actually unfair advantage.
Every version of both of them have always been patched
Quickswap wasn't patched out for years until Rare made the decision to cater to casuals and new players, some time after the huge success of the Jack Sparrow tall tales. Before that there were no attempts to remove it, they just made sure it wasn't brokenly fast.
Stop catering to the loud sweats who don't actually play the game.
Most TDMers I know have over 3k hours on the game, and won't uninstall for months after they get dumpstered on once. Can't say the same for the average sword lord PvE enjoyer.
@I-Slxshie-I Your post has been removed as it goes against the Forum Rules and Pirate Code.
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@worst-tdmer said in Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back.:
Following this logic, why not remove sword lunging? That was also an exploit/"unintended feature" for years until Rare officially accepted it.
No, no it wasn't. It was assessed in the run-up to and during game Launch and almost immediately accepted.
@worst-tdmer a dit dans Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back. :
Following this logic, why not remove sword lunging? That was also an exploit/"unintended feature" for years until Rare officially accepted it. Regardless funny launch is FPS dependent and console players can't do it, which makes it an actually unfair advantage.
Sword Lunge was accepted by Rare back in 2018 almost immediately when the problem was raised, please don't spread misinformation, they said it was not intended by devs (therefore an exploit), but they accepted that it stays that way and is now considered a feature by devs (so no more an exploit going forward)
Meanwhile, quick switch exploit, that started at the 1.4.3 update (https://seaofthieves.wiki.gg/wiki/1.4.3), was NEVER recognized as a feature by Rare until today, they even tried to fix it a few times after 1.4.3 update before abandonning the idea for many years, it was always recognized as an exploit by devs both by pure game design logic (not intended by devs and never recognized somehow else therefore exploit), and by words (https://ibb.co/4M0rVN3)
At this stage people who quick swapped can only be grateful to Rare they haven't enforced the Xbox Rules of Conduct (rule number 7) which would have led to a ban for them : https://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/community-standards#vii (btw the ladder launch also falls in this category, but Rare specifically said you won't get banned for it)
Anyway, about the topic to a more larger scale, i would prefer seeing Rare fix the core mechanics of the PvP before changing (again) how it works, we simply cannot rely on the effects of a sword hit or a ranged weapon hit, nor the marker (even if they improved it recently), and if players cannot rely of what the game is showing them, there is a problem to fix.
To take just an example, since 1.4.3, you sometimes see your opponent being able to fight back during a sword combo, sometimes they cannot (even if in both cases they indeed took damages so it wasn't hitreg, unless it was some sort of "stunlock hitreg"), this issue is both versus players and pve skeletons
Then why did they feel the need to declare it an official mechanic when they addressed funny launching and all the other "unintended features"?
They "allowed" it back then, but they also "allowed" quickswap. They could have patched out quickswap back then too if they wanted to, instead they tweaked it to make it more fair.
@worst-tdmer They thought that it was fun and that fit the Sea of Thieves.
The Quick Swap Exploit was not and was repeatedly patched (or attempted to be patched).
@I-Slxshie-I As your post goes against the Forum Rules, it has been removed.
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It was tweaked.
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If they wanted it gone sooner, it would have been.
@worst-tdmer a dit dans Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back. :
Then why did they feel the need to declare it an official mechanic, when they addressed funny launching and all the other "unintended features".
They "allowed" it back then, but they also "allowed" quickswap. They could have patched out quickswap back then too if they wanted to, instead they tweaked it to make it more fair.
As i said, they tried to fix quick switch multiple times after 1.4.3 update, then abandonned the idea because they most likely had to focus on other things.
Then it became more and more popular, every streamer was showing it, to a point Rare couldn't just ban that many people (especially streamers and other people that were basically promoting the game), Rare got trapped in their own inaction or failure to fix it early, no matter how clear the Xbox Rules of Conduct are regarding this topic.
So to answer to your question, i really think Rare just had too much work to do with all those "unintended features", and it's still going strong today (i'm thinking of all the glitches that allowed people to reach golden HG curse on many accounts, without losing it afterwards, or other ways to have 100% winrate today).
I'm completely on your side that Rare "allowing" all those "unintended features" is making it hard for players to understand what is allowed and what is not, it's really just about knowing what game design is, and what the vision of the devs are on a topic, and using Xbox Rules of Conduct to define what should be used or not, in the end, it's Rare lack of communication that caused this, it's getting way better today with those developer update video, i'm very happy about their communication now.
The screenshot up above was a fix to an issue that would only ever happen when quickswapping.
Why give a quality of life update to what they consider an exploit?
Their stance changed.
@worst-tdmer a dit dans Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back. :
The screenshot up above was a fix to an issue that would only ever happen when quickswapping.
Why give a quality of life update to what they consider an exploit?
Their stance changed.
No, they fixed a bug that got caused by their action in trying to fix quick switch, this new bug caused people to get stuck if they tried to fire too quick even without trying to quick swap or bypass the hardlock behind it, Rare just couldn't let all players get stuck by playing the game normally.
@worst-tdmer
mikethemutinous said in Combat Balancing Changes:Hi everyone,
Preventing the Double Gun Exploit
The âdouble gunâ is a non-intended exploit that has recently gained traction in the community. Itâs essentially the result of the wield animations for each of the weapons being too brief. Up until now, equipping a weapon has played a basic wield animation that finished extremely quickly, and what this means in the case of a gun is that it can go from unequipped to being ready to fire in a short space of time. This has led to scenarios where some players are exploiting the fact that two guns can be swapped between extremely quickly, allowing two shots to be fired in quick succession that can then easily overpower their target. Traditionally, most first person experiences have a more elaborate wield animation to allow for a short ready time before any shot can be fired, preventing any exploits around wielding weapons. Rather than add an arbitrary delay, from the gameplay perspective, it will always âfeelâ better to have a wield animation where the gun animates to the screen, comes to a natural rest, and the moment the animation looks like its finished, the gun will be ready to fire.
As part of this, all weapons have new wield animations as part of an inbuilt delay when equipping weapons. Weâre confident this will reduce the effectiveness of this exploit.
As a nice side effect, the new wield animations look much nicer than the ones we launched the game with!
The patch note says "players shooting, sprinting, and aiming in quick succession". There is no reloading in that sentence and if there were, it wouldn't be in "quick succession".
This is quick swapping. This is Rare giving quick swap a quality of life improvement.
Not saying they loved the feature, but they definitely knew their player base loved it.
Was this when they tweaked quickswap to make it less brokenly fast, instead of removing it out right?
And again, why would Rare give an exploit a quality of life improvement later on down the line?
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@worst-tdmer They fixed the animation/bug with aiming down sight for the Eye of Reach, because people were still trying to exploit and it bugged out/broke the animation.
@worst-tdmer a dit dans Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back. :
The patch note says "players shooting, sprinting, and aiming in quick succession". There is no reloading in that sentence and if there were, it wouldn't be in "quick succession".
This is quick swapping. This is Rare giving quick swap a quality of life improvement.
Not saying they loved the feature, but they definitely knew their player base loved it.
It's just that normal people would also need to sprint after shooting once just for the sake of movement or place themselves better, they would get stuck even by not trying to shoot faster, that's just that (on top of actually exploiters being stuck), no matter if players exploit or not, devs don't want players to get stuck.
You are indeed right that they didn't liked that but they knew they just couldn't get in the way of the player when it became popular, that was the main issue really.
Then why do they specifically describe quickswapping where the bug happens, and why would they care if an exploit doesn't work correctly?
They don't say "players aiming down sight with the eye of reach", they say "players shooting, sprinting, and aiming in quick succession" i.e. quickswapping.
But that's not how the bug worked. If you sprinted for a few seconds to reposition, you'd have no problems. The bug specifically impacted players quick swapping, it's the reason tdmers would ADS twice before shooting the second time.
they just couldn't get in the way of the player when it became popular, that was the main issue really.
This is what I mean by "they changed their stance to cater to new/casual players". After Pirates Life, they thought they struck gold and could effectively drop their core player base for a new one. It didn't work out so well.
@worst-tdmer They "specifically" mentioned
Players shooting, sprinting and aiming in quick succession with an Eye of Reach should no longer encounter rare scenarios where the weapon animation becomes stuck and prevents aiming down sights.
Nothing about quick swap. It was a fix for a bug.
What do you think "shooting, sprinting, and aiming in quick succession" means?
You can't shoot, sprint, and aim in quick succession unless you're quickswapping. Otherwise there would be a "reloading" in that sentence, and it would not be "in quick succession". This is Rare tap dancing around the wording because they don't want to out-right accept quickswap, [mod edit].
Regardless of whether or not Rare liked quickswap, they accepted and tweaked it until they felt like they didn't have to.
@worst-tdmer Your post has been edited as it goes against the Forum Rules and Pirate Code.
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Be courteous. Donât insult players you donât know. If humour is the intent, remember that this can be lost or misinterpreted online, and words can very easily offend. Be mindful of what youâre saying and if someone asks a question, see if you can help them out as youâd appreciate being helped out yourself if the roles were reversed.
Name calling, personal attacks and using derogatory language against Community Members, Rare Employees, Global Moderators or Deckhands is not acceptable. Using such language will result in a warning, then temporary ban from the Forums and a final warning. If the action is persistent or increasingly aggressive, a permanent ban from the Forums will be issued.
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@worst-tdmer The patch was for a bug with the animation/aiming down sight with an Eye of Reach.
It may have been caused by people trying to exploit but it was a fix for a bug, not a 'Quality of Life' update for using exploits.
It was a Quality of Life fix for an animation bug.
Brother, how is calling out perceived ignorance "insulting"?
I'm saying you're ignoring something that is obvious intentionally. That's not an attack on your character. It's no different than me saying "you're refusing to acknowledge something".
It was a Quality of Life fix for a bug that only ever happened while quickswapping. Rare specifically describes quickswapping in their patch note.
You are "refusing to acknowledge" this.
@worst-tdmer Not here, it doesn't from what I can see https://www.seaofthieves.com/release-notes/2.8.1
You'll have to be a bit more specific. All I see is the exact patch note from my screenshot word for word, which describes quickswapping.
Here's my response from last time you said this, and for some reason decided not to address it at all.
What do you think "shooting, sprinting, and aiming in quick succession" means?
You can't shoot, sprint, and aim in quick succession unless you're quickswapping. Otherwise there would be a "reloading" in that sentence, and it would not be "in quick succession". This is Rare tap dancing around the wording because they don't want to out-right accept quickswap, and you "refusing to acknowledge this".
@worst-tdmer You can argue semantics and infer what you like from the text, but it does not mention quick swapping.
As this is also derailing the Thread, it's probably best to just agree to disagree.
Thanks.
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