I think SoT needs a more substantial form of progression in order to keep players coming back. The cosmetic only rewards are the biggest problem, once you have your pirate looking pretty good there's a massive jump in price for ship cosmetics so nothing to spend your gold on, and that's assuming you're motivated enough by cosmetics in the first place. In a game where you spend much of your time gathering booty gold loses it's worth very quickly!
A level based progression system would not suit the game at all so that leaves us with item based progression, a well handled system of which could transform player engagement and actually enhance the game.
For those that love the original idea of nothing but cosmetics then simply allow cosmetic only servers where even if you've spent hundreds of thousands of gold on the best kit you can still chose to play in a completely even playing field. Otherwise give items bonus functionality, nothing that would unbalance the game, but something worth spending gold on. A sail that makes your ship 10% faster when you sail against the wind, a hammer that makes boarding up your boat a little quicker, some boots that make you take 15% less falling damage, a buff coat that reduces damage from skeletal gunfire by 15%, the possibilities are endless.
If powerful items were made to look the part then this could actually enhance the game play experience by making the appearance of your pirate and ship actually mean something.
None of these items effects should be allowed to stack, so wearing boots and a hat that both reduce falling damage would only reduce that damage by the value of the highest item, and careful consideration should be given if the item can effect pvp in any way, a skilled base pirate with nothing should still be a threat to even the most tooled up player.
This solution should be relatively quick to implement, gives players something worth accumulating gold for, avoids the problems of traditional leveling up and (with server selection) keeps the whole player base happy, while retaining a relatively even playing field for experienced and new pirates.
Horizontal progression isn't enough!
I Like the sounds of this, Its something that Still keeps the game Very even as long as they don't give Boosted weapons, Because I hate the pay to win games buying the best weapons from the store just drives me crazy, But Having a faster ship or one that can take more damage is something I would like to see. and each ship would be different unique to your play style.
@xexamedes Sails that make your ship faster than others, boots that allow you to make jumps others can't, buffs that make skele damage less dangerous are all imbalancing and make the playing field uneven. That's not what this game is about, and there's no way Rare is going to make a different server type for every kind of playstyle people want.
Back in the day, people used to play MMOs for reputation and to display their unique, hard-to-acquire items that show off their ability or how well their team works together to achieve difficult goals. That's what SoT caters to. If that's not your thing, the game isn't for you.
@radjinwolf Having two types if servers is hardly tailoring servers to every play style. I get that some people are happy with cosmetics only, but I suspect that the majority of potential players would prefer some form of progression, and the reviews the game has received, as well as personal experience, suggest I'm correct in that assumption.
I love the game, but I do worry it's going to kill it's potential by catering only to a very limited player base, I've already had several friends stop playing because after the first few hours there's nothing to keep them coming back, and it's difficult to argue when I don't really care what my bucket looks like either!@xexamedes said in Horizontal progression isn't enough!:
@radjinwolf Having two types if servers is hardly tailoring servers to every play style.
Except it would be more than 2. One server for vertical progression, one for horizontal cosmetics only.
One for PvE only, one for PvP only.
One for solo players only. One for full crews only.
One for galleons only. One for sloops only.
I've seen threads requesting all of these kinds of servers. That isn't the answer.
I get that some people are happy with cosmetics only, but I suspect that the majority of potential players would prefer some form of progression, and the reviews the game has received, as well as personal experience, suggest I'm correct in that assumption.
The reviews I've read (Gamespot, IGN, etc) have mentioned progression, but have largely focused on the lack of content, and that the progression system that's in place isn't rewarding enough in the long-term and won't sustain the game. Which is true. In all those articles I think I only saw one make a passing mention about not liking horizontal progression.
I love the game, but I do worry it's going to kill it's potential by catering only to a very limited player base, I've already had several friends stop playing because after the first few hours there's nothing to keep them coming back, and it's difficult to argue when I don't really care what my bucket looks like either!
Every game has a limited playerbase if you get right down to it. There's always going to be crossover, but people who are hardcore into Divinity Original Sin probably aren't the same people who are hardcore into PUBG. People who are hardcore into The Sims may not share an interest in World of Warcraft.
The point is, SoT has a design philosophy and a vision. That will appeal to some players, but won't appeal to others, especially in it's currently limited form. Maybe after some content updates in the future that will change. Maybe Rare will find fun and engaging ways to progress within the confines of it's existing system that'll bring people back. Who knows?
But the point is, SoT wasn't developed to cater to everyone. I'm not going to go complain on the PUBG forums that it's unfair that the game doesn't have a PvE server with AI for me to fight, and demand that they do it. That's not what the game is designed to be, just as SoT is not designed to be a game with a vertical progression system.
@radjinwolf It seems we'll just have to disagree on this one. I truly hope they come up with some way to make progression more compelling as without it I fear the Sea of Thieves ship is sinking and in urgent need of some innovative planks to plug the holes.
Totally agree with this post, I can't see anyone wanting to grind treasure hunting and killing skeletons just to make their character look different. Also what is the point in playing a mmo game when you never actually see any other players. If they want running into another player to be a special event then at least give us some npc ships so we can actually do some pirating! Im pretty sure pirates did something other than drink grog and fight other pirates.
Money has no purpose at the moment, how about consumable things to buy like special weapons, coconut grenades, double barrel pistol etc
Really great game with huge potential but needs alot adding to it fast before people get bored and forget about it.
Any stat based system, gear or otherwise, isn't a cure. It's a band-aid; a temporary bandage that doesn't fix any actual issues.
As mentioned above, the reviews mentioning progression have always been in reaction to the lack of content. Lack of content is the problem and while stat progression is something that springs to mind, it doesn't address the main issue.
More content; ACTUAL content is what's needed. From activities to voyages to, yes, more cosmetics. Additional cosmetics as well; ship wheels, lanterns, masks, earrings, belt accessories, maybe some type of aura effect (buzzing flies or ghostly smoke).
We need more stuff to do and more stuff to buy. Stats just aren't the answer.
I would be all for minor adjustments. A rifle with usable crosshairs, cannons with iron sights, hell, iron sights to all guns, a way to carry a few more items than we can now, maybe hold our breath for longer, swim a little faster. I would think with all the constant swimming we do it would let us get a little more proficient in it.
@v**a-hombre Lack of progression is an actual issue, and more cosmetics really isn't going to help. You say yourself that we need something to spend our gold on, I've run out of things I care to buy in just over a week, I probably will buy a nicer looking bucket but not because I really want one, just because I've nothing else to do with my gold.
This is a pirate game, there should be a reason the accumulate treasure, yet another hat, or pair of boots, gets old pretty quickly. On the other hand if that hat made chickens glow slightly in the dark....Definitely, horizontal progression is not enough... but, oh wait : there's no horizontal progression in this game yet, there are only cosmetic variations available, that's it.
I'm all for actual horizontal progression though : new combat playstyles, new weapons, deeper combat the whole balanced with the existing ones to completely avoid OP weapons, must use like the current blunderbuss.
No vertical progression, no thanks. There are plenty of pvp games having done so, destiny, the division including open pvp for who knows why.
Yes, we DO need more things to spend our gold on, but I don't see how stat based gear is any better than regular cosmetics.
Firstly, unless they make stats separate from cosmetics, I'll be forced into wearing gear that I might not like, just so I can stay viable. Which makes looking unique kinda hard.
Secondly, what does gear do in the long run. Yeah, people will be in more of a hurry to buy it all (cause they're at a disadvantage if they don't), but just as with cosmetics, what happens when you've got what you want.
Hooray, I'm more powerful so now I can..... go do the exact same stuff I've been doing up till now.
Rare has to focus on making their world more rich, alive, and fun to interact with. They don' t have the time to design and balance a completely from scratch loot and stat system.
@v**a-hombre There are limits to any system, but as Rare introduce more content so the range of possibilities will expand. Also players will be able to use different gear depending on the quest they are undertaking. This is not a leveling up system, just a way of making gameplay more varied and gold worth saving. Yes, you'll be off doing the exact same things with your new equipment, but isn't that the same in every game?
As for it dictating your choice of cosmetic look, why does that need to be the case? Simply make the vendor menu two layered.@xexamedes said in Horizontal progression isn't enough!:
@radjinwolf It seems we'll just have to disagree on this one. I truly hope they come up with some way to make progression more compelling as without it I fear the Sea of Thieves ship is sinking and in urgent need of some innovative planks to plug the holes.
We actually do completely agree that there needs to be more compelling progression. We can even agree that there need to be more items beyond cosmetics, like maybe different kinds of weapons, ships, available to all which can then be customized, etc.
The problem lies in some players having access to items while others do not. That's a vertical progression system, and rewards items, abilities and additional power to players by virtue of their invested play time. That's what Rare wants to avoid.
@radjinwolf It would be nice to think that Rare could come up with enough new content to keep us all engaged for the months and years to come, but that's a lot of work on a game when it's not making you any more money. Without dividing the player base with paid dlc they're going to need some advancement system. Even new events and factions will get repetitive pretty quickly if there's nothing to be gained from doing them or their quests.
@xexamedes said in Horizontal progression isn't enough!:
@v**a-hombre There are limits to any system, but as Rare introduce more content so the range of possibilities will expand. Also players will be able to use different gear depending on the quest they are undertaking. This is not a leveling up system, just a way of making gameplay more varied and gold worth saving. Yes, you'll be off doing the exact same things with your new equipment, but isn't that the same in every game?
As for it dictating your choice of cosmetic look, why does that need to be the case? Simply make the vendor menu two layered.Yes, but then we're tacking on another addition to make the first addition work. I can only speak from personal experience and my own view point, but the idea of swapping out gear for every voyage sounds like busy work more than anything else.
Not to mention that, again, the voyages really aren't varied enough to make swappable gear all that interesting.
Sorry, but voyages, activities, legendary content, lore, events, and such all seem MUCH more solely needed than another menu to move things around in.
As much as I love this game, this is definitely my biggest area of concern. Even over lack of content as I believe that part will grow. But progression I am worried won't as much aside from more and more cosmetics.
I don't think we need gear that would imbalance the game, but we definitely need something more than cosmetics. But maybe just stuff that don't help with combat. I am terrible at coming up with ideas so I don't fully know what that could be. But stuff like making a ship faster would definitely imbalance the game.
I love the fact that you can enter the game as a new player and not feel left behind. That is a huge reason I can't get some friends into some MMOs, they feel too weak and would be useless to players that have been playing for a long time. That is 1 of many reasons why MMOs slowly fade away. This won't have that issue. But it needs something.....
Some customisation - actual cosmetic customisation , some new ships, more items to interact with - would all be appreciated. But a stat based system or buffed gear should 100% be avoided. No one should have “better” equipment than another. Not even a legend. All it does is reward players time and isolate/intimidate/demoralise new players and players who can’t play all day long. The game is currently set up to reward a players skill. Please don’t let that change.
I agree, Xexamedes! It'd be good to have something more to spend my gold on. Love the game overall but my excitement for different coloured buckets and dresses has it's limit! I'd really like to see a feature where you can create your own pirate base, add to it, upgrade it etc but I appreciate that's likely to be quite a big undertaking development wise...
