High Seas vs Safer Seas

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @suctioncorn5220 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    I didn't want to write the whole story because exactly that does not belong in this post. I obviously fought them a ton of times, kegged them 3 times minimum. I was fully honest about PVP and how we needed to be careful and run if a boat seemed like they had players I couldn't handle by myself. I didn't prepare her for a pair of players who were intended on ruining her session.

    Fair enough. And I'm actually positively surprised you've said it. I'm not sarcastic or anything now, for real.

    It was most def not worth it as a gaming session, but here it is, being worth proving that you and most others on this post are wrong about the definition of harassement and what is supposed to be intended gameplay. Harrasement is not an L. And despite a mod already warning you, me and others, being dismissive and piling on someone is not disagreement. It's bullying. And 3 hours of chasing someone for no real reward is allowed but definitely not expected. And if you didn't care, you wouldn't reply so feel free to reply one more time completely outside of the topic and beg the mod to close it in hopes you get the last reply.

    Look... the only reason why I brought up locking this topic, is because they were actually locking SS related topics for much much less. And the vibe started devolving into usual stuff. So I find it weird, but I don't actually mind it's still up. 😄

    Anyways.... It's not my intention to seek the "last reply" as that's kinda super childish (as a matter of fact, there is another active topic where I saw 2 ppl replying back to me in 3 comments after poking them, never even bothered to check em 😂).

    You're also right - I do care in a way of preserving the game as it always was, but also pushing ppl to rethink why they even purchased the game, and what keeps them still playing it after being so seemingly frustrated with it.

    That said, I'll leave it at this, and feel free to reply back with whatever you think or feel. I won't be coming after ya, cuz I think we both won't change each other's perspective on this.

    For what is worth, I do hope you'll find a decent replacement or something that better suits you and your partner, if you still can't adapt or change your mindset about SoT as it currently is.

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @exsmigol said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    Sorry buddy, but i have to say this. You are being arrogant.
    Another person shares a bad experience he had with her partner and the first thing you do is to blame them? Their fault for not being honest with her partner? Really?

    Arrogant? What's funny is that you didn't tell me I'm wrong 😁

    His example shows perfectly the kind of situation that we are talking about. And the kind of player being negatively affected by it.

    I'm not saying they aren't negatively affected. If they're complaining about something, it's obviously affecting them.

    What's being debated here is why they keep allowing themselves to be affected by it.

    If people keep creating the same topic over and over, this might be a indication that the complain is not a person issue, but a game design flaw.

    Ppl also keep saying over and over how Windrose is terribly optimized, how it's boring, yet it has 120k active players, with tons of them 100+ hours (me being one of them, having a blast, with everything on ultra, smooth).

    See what I'm trying to say here? No? 😂

    But let me guess - you're now gonna come back stating all those players are SoT PvE refugees.

    TL:DR - it's a person issue. And that's totally fine as well. Just a little bit of self awareness and admittance, and all is good. We all make mistakes and have bad takes lol.

  • ZenonXVII
    Castaway

    Am patiently waiting to purchase the game until Safer Seas has 100% rewards and content , or we get the ability to host private servers :)
    PvP players can fight other PvP players, and not wanting this is just a self report that combat was never your focus, its farming other people.
    And hoards of people will flood into to play from games pass and steam just to play PvE with friends and alone :)
    Dune showed us that the majority of gamers in general want PvE. we now use the boosted PvP servers to farm in groups because they are empty.
    PvP players didn't want to just fight each other, their enjoyment has to come at the expense of someone else :)

  • FurryFreedomX3
    Castaway

    @suctioncorn5220 Similar things have happened to me playing high seas; where I've been followed around for hours by other players, forcing me to fight back or just give up.

    @exsmigol: If people keep creating the same topic over and over, this might be a indication that the complain is not a person issue, but a game design flaw.

    Exactly this. If its a huge topic of conversation, so much so that "124135135" topics have been made about it, maybe that's for a reason, and overlooking or dismissing that reason isn't a good thing. I believe something like this would benefit the game; as do many others.

    Yes the idea needs work, I accept that; but rather than outright denying the idea or overlooking it, it would be beneficial to work together to find a system that would actually work.

  • Capt Greldik
    Master

    @furryfreedomx3 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    @suctioncorn5220 Similar things have happened to me playing high seas; where I've been followed around for hours by other players, forcing me to fight back or just give up.

    @exsmigol: If people keep creating the same topic over and over, this might be a indication that the complain is not a person issue, but a game design flaw.

    Exactly this. If its a huge topic of conversation, so much so that "124135135" topics have been made about it, maybe that's for a reason, and overlooking or dismissing that reason isn't a good thing. I believe something like this would benefit the game; as do many others.

    Yes the idea needs work, I accept that; but rather than outright denying the idea or overlooking it, it would be beneficial to work together to find a system that would actually work.

    In a game like this, what you do is play to your abilities and gradually work yourself into bigger game loot. When I started playing I quickly realized that I was very vulnerable to other players, so I chose activities suitable for my capabilities. I did countless Athens shipwrecks in the roar, being extremely vigilant and selling often. I certainly did not try to do a fotd, fof, or anything else that puts me on the map. I really enjoyed that time, actually, and if I needed gold I might chose that activity as a method for grinding.

    That’s the reality of a PvPvE game, you can’t expect to be lord of the fof when you have only so many hours. I get the impression that many people join this game, go to the big cloud in the sky, fail because someone who isn’t new contested them, then head to the forums. You have to try, you have to get better, that’s what this game is. Don’t get upset at someone contesting a fof, that’s part of the game. If someone is chasing you for “hours”, fight until you sink or scuttle, and/or do some drive-bys of outpost selling an item or two at a time. You have all of the options anyone else has. You aren’t forced to play sot, and nothing within a game that you must do is forced if you willingly chose to play that game.

    Maybe you’ll get your sailing simulator someday, I don’t know. In the meantime, try to learn the game and increase your survivability. Once you do that it becomes so much more fun.

  • Capt Greldik
    Master

    @zenonxvii said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    Am patiently waiting to purchase the game until Safer Seas has 100% rewards and content , or we get the ability to host private servers :)
    PvP players can fight other PvP players, and not wanting this is just a self report that combat was never your focus, its farming other people.
    And hoards of people will flood into to play from games pass and steam just to play PvE with friends and alone :)
    Dune showed us that the majority of gamers in general want PvE. we now use the boosted PvP servers to farm in groups because they are empty.
    PvP players didn't want to just fight each other, their enjoyment has to come at the expense of someone else :)

    Most “pvp players” in sot are doing hourglass, fighting only consensual fights. The PvPvE players in sot, which should be everyone, are doing whatever they feel like.

  • ZenonXVII
    Castaway

    @capt-greldik PvPvE is the current state, im waiting for PvE. hope that clears things up for you :)
    I don't think the devs should have to make anything for anyone, i believe they can do as they like and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional and entitled.
    i am simply stating my opinion, and my stance. it is obviously undeniable that a large number of people enjoy the current state of the game, and are happy doing whatever they like as you say.

    my point is simply that if the PvPvE environment is healthy in its current state, it would not matter whatsoever if they added a full PvE experience, since all the people who are happy with the current state of the inclusion of PvP, alongside the PvE, would not need to migrate to safe seas. everyone who likes how the game is now, would simply stay, and more people would just start playing and buying. to say that Safe Seas would ruin the game by dividing the playerbase, is admitting that the PvP aspects of SoT are not desirable as a gameplay feature, hence the assumption that a large exodus of players would migrate away from the High Seas.

    its up to the devs, i respect any decision they make, im just waiting patiently for what i would consider inevitable, but again, this is just my opinion :)
    hope you all are having a great day :)

  • SuctionCorn5220
    Sailor

    Well this got a lot more chill somehow, unexpected turn of events on the Internet. Still disagreements but no more just pushing someone down for wanting to push a good game forward, even if we disagree with the direction.

    I read all the replies but I'll agree to leave it as is from my side, other people have made the point I wanted to make better than me, but mutual agreeing in disagreeing is good. Thank you.

    That said, a suggestion.

    @FurryFreedomX3 what if you had the modes separate at first but going to Higher Seas required a rite of passage or something? Like you need to earn going to Higher Seas. I mean even the names sound like one should come after the other! We could keep your idea but adapt it to the current system more neatly.

    I'm imagining someone who has done a bunch of questing and had some fun with friends on safer seas but now they have to like 1v1 an actual player in a sea race for treasure where every cheese is allowed. Maybe even take it further! I never saw The Hunger Games, nor read the books, but the ritual of earning a place on the high seas could be an open competition where the top pirates get to join the dangerous PvPvE seas, kinda like the games? Rare even added the ability to have multiple pirates on a profile so that's already a step in that direction!

    Higher Seas would have to be like a magnitude above Safer Seas tho which in of itself is already a massive overhaul of the game and def too much to ask, even for a year of updates.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @zenonxvii said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    my point is simply that if the PvPvE environment is healthy in its current state, it would not matter whatsoever if they added a full PvE experience, since all the people who are happy with the current state of the inclusion of PvP, alongside the PvE, would not need to migrate to safe seas. everyone who likes how the game is now, would simply stay, and more people would just start playing and buying. to say that Safe Seas would ruin the game by dividing the playerbase, is admitting that the PvP aspects of SoT are not desirable as a gameplay feature, hence the assumption that a large exodus of players would migrate away from the High Seas.

    While you might only (re)join the Seas when there is PvE only option, there are also players currently playing who may not like the PvP aspect or have it only in small doses. We all know the (fabricated / exaggerated) stories of people who get sunk every time as soon as they are 5 minutes from an outpost or as soon as they finished one voyage and are ready to turn in, but the truth is, it is perfectly possible to do world events and long sessions without much trouble from other crews. People who do not want to take that effort anymore when there will be less constraints in Safer Seas, might make the step to switch, just as there have been players who've made the switch when Safer Seas was introduced.

    It's safe to assume that these players currently pose hardy a threat to others and make it possible to have a mix on servers where there are hostile crews and more peaceful or coorperating crews. When more people make the switch to Safer Seas, the High Seas Servers will become more hostile on average. This in turn might make more people switch or even quit the game.

    When I'm sailing solo, I mostly keep my distance, so to speak, and when confronted with another crew who is after the loot, emissary flag and / or my supplies on my vessel, I either win the chase or get sunk - the latter doesn't happen that often (perhaps twice a month), but if that increases a lot or when one chase leads to another chase and I don't get the things done I set out to do, the enjoyment might decrease and thus probably decrease my playing time in SoT,

    If there would be no restrictions in Safer Seas, how would you think the doubloon weekends will go ? Loads of people will do them in Safer Seas and then switch to Higher Seas to see if they can get some more by stealing items / sinking ships of those that stick to Higher Seas.

    There are even peope who want Emissary play in Safer Seas (though it would not make sense to have a mechanism that rewards people with a bonus for taking more risk when there are no other players). That would make the leader boards for ledger rewards even more unfair.

    Just two examples on why expecting Safer Seas to have more features would have an impact on the game as a whole.

    People can enjoy most of the game's features on Safer Seas with rewards or starting next Season have all the features on Custom Servers without rewards. I think Rare has done enough (I'd say too much) for people who don't like the PvP premise of the game.

  • Europa4033
    Commander
    Insider

    @exsmigol said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    @r3vanns disse em High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    Gotta ask you - were you honest with your partner about the game? Have you told them what they were about to experience? An actual PvPvE game?
    Cuz if you did, and they willingly joined - you both can't take an L, and should anyways move to something else. Or... just entertain this idea - you shouldn't run for 3 hours for 1 voyage worth of loot? 😂
    If you didn't tell them what they're about to experience - you still both can't take the lol, but it's your fault you didn't set the expectations straight. You, among few others here, bought the game that's not up your niche and are blaming people for playing within what's allowed and expected.

    Sorry buddy, but i have to say this. You are being arrogant.
    Another person shares a bad experience he had with her partner and the first thing you do is to blame them? Their fault for not being honest with her partner? Really?

    His example shows perfectly the kind of situation that we are talking about. And the kind of player being negatively affected by it.

    @Look-Behind-You and this topic still isn't locked up...? I don't see what's any different than any other previous 124135135 SS topics. Even if it was initially, definitely not anymore. The good old "people are harassing me in HS" is back on the menu. 😅 Along with all the previous usual SS "requests".

    If people keep creating the same topic over and over, this might be a indication that the complain is not a person issue, but a game design flaw.

    No, @R3vanNS isn't. They're asking the honest, factual questions here. If I were to share a bad experience in this game to one of my crew, the first questions out of their mouth would be: did you fire back? What did you do to defend yourself? Did you have enough supplies, etc.? Someone comes to you and starts firing. The ball is now in your court: what do you do? Do you run away for 3hrs, or do you use this as a learning tool to help teach them how to defend their ship?

    People keep creating the same topic over and over again because they refuse to learn how to defend their ship. Rare catered to new players by introducing Safer Seas, and now people jump all over them asking for captain ships, sovereigns, achievements, left and right like it's the main game.

    This is a PvPvE game. People wanting to remove a fundamental core of the game would be a major design flaw, since there's no point--you could do 200 FotDs without the risk of another ship coming over keeping you on your toes. Also, if you learned how to defend your ship, you wouldn't have to worry about other players "ruining your day," when it boils down to your responsibility.

    It's a PvPvE game. Other players can attack you at anytime for any reason. You can either run for 3hrs, or take it as a learning opportunity and fight back to learn how to defend yourself. Those are your options. It's no on Rare to hold your hand and create a PvE server simply because you refuse to practice.

  • ZenonXVII
    Castaway

    @lem0n-curry Yeah i think there are a lot of people who muddy the waters by thinking they are owed a certain experience in every IP.

    I certainly don't think that the devs should cater to anyone specifically, and should focus on making the game they want, and there are a lot of horror stories that just cant be true, the odds of a bad experience every single time are astronomical, and just whining.

    I've played a dozen or so hours myself, over a few days as a solo sloop about 5 years ago, i tried engaging in the PvP a few times, both hunting others and defending myself, I'm certainly not against the existence of PvP in the game, and cant deny that as a game about pirating, it makes absolute perfect sense as well. i acknowledge that wanting a safe experience when it comes to other players, makes far less sense from a roleplay perspective, just going off the name of the game. it is just that i personally don't enjoy the idea of taking time from others even in a digital sense, although no hate to the ones who act as pirates in the pirate game xP and in fairness, i also encountered a decent number of kind sailors who asked if i was new, and helped me with advice and even some co-op instead of just sinking me outright and chasing me across the map. i learned how to play from people inside the game some people say is so toxic. people can be toxic sure, but most aren't. it just wasn't for me is all.

    in regards to the aggression concerns, the hostile crews have been the main reason these forum posts exist, as these people just want a way to avoid specifically that. as the fact that some people get chased to the ends of the map for hours on end, is forcing gameplay. they no longer get to do whatever they want, and feel like they are wasting their gaming time, as being forced to do anything is generally not enjoyable. it's only happened to me once, slurs and everything being thrown out and any kills i got were met with literal screaming about me cheating somehow (i had good coaches) just the one encounter after hours of fun made me want to play something else. that's not a dig at the game, its a dig at specific types of players, and those players are a problem in every PvP game, and also impossible to prevent. nobody likes a troll after all, that I'm sure we can probably all agree on, since they infect both PvP and PvE environments, just not equally.

    yeah i see your point about double reward weekends being a divider, i think it would be better if the PvE and PvPvE weren't transferrable, and PvE players should be unable to earn achievements or cosmetics normally earned through milestones or levels expected to be completed under normal hazard, but any cosmetics earned in the high seas, stay account wide. there are just a lot of gamers who specifically want to do nothing but grind, why not farm them for cash? alot of them are hanging back just for the wording, they hear 20% rewards and balk, but if they had just said high seas is 2x or 3x rewards, people would be lining up and falling in headfirst to grind their lives away, myself included.

    EDIT: i also believe there to be a difference between a PvP player, a PvPvE player and a PvE player, so when i state PvP in my earlier comments, im referring to just those hostile chasers who only play to sink and chase people until they quit

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    This why Rare added features for these players...

    • Sunk to many times, in short period. Auto merge to new server
    • Wanna scuttle but change servers? There's an option for that
    • Play with kids and family? Got a separate tutorial section for that.
    • Tired of hearing/Seeing text of nasty players, every game has this. Mute.

    In the end. SoT is one big huge story-driven game, and those stories are always about other pirates. Good or bad. Players coming here to complain without evidence to back it up are all campfire stories at this point and spread like so. Some even add their own ads to the stories to make it sound believable. Some get fancy by throwing in words like "This will save the game" like it's dying or something or "Think of the profits," which is sad to say, what developer wont do for more money, but some dev teams actually make games for gamers regardless of money and just for players to enjoy, and if they buy stuff ingame. Bonus.

    Starting to remove other players or separating players because you want an online game to be a single-player game just proves "You as a gamer have chosen the wrong game to play," which is telling the players who are enjoying the game as it is because we paid for those moments. They are in the wrong, and the game should change to someone else's liking so others will complain about that change how it also ruined the game...

    Endless cycle of change to meet demands, and those demands making problems for others. Just to suit the small % of players who chosen the wrong game and wont admit.

  • ZenonXVII
    Castaway

    @burnbacon this generalization isn't entirely accurate, there are a lot of people who want these changes, but also don't mind if they never happen. id like a 100% safer seas, but im not gonna get butthurt if it never happens. this is the Feedback and Suggestions forum, that's all these should be.

    nobody has to like someone's opinion, its ultimately up to the devs to tell us to not talk about it. not someone who is annoyed by people speaking their minds.

    i haven't played in 5 years, It's not about "choosing the wrong game" just because i decided to chime into the forums.

  • SuctionCorn5220
    Sailor

    Ah what a shame. I really hoped this would be it. But the hate on Safer Seas is just too much.. we are back at arguing about it's existence instead of how to make it enjoyable which is the actual topic. At this point it's gotta be on purpose.

    I can't be asked to reply directly to each minor argument but here's my general reply to all of those: no one asked for higher seas and safer seas to be the same except without PVP, even if the strawman is unintended, it's still happening. Please get on the topic or don't reply.

    Also, there's clearly a spirit of "Us vs Them". The sentiment seems to be that Safer Seas promoters are children or dumb and new to the game. I'm typing this on my second monitor as I'm playing on Higher Seas with a Reaper V emissary and currently stacked in the middle of the server, after getting a lil streak on hourglass for the initial resources. I have learnt and I enjoy PvP and I sitll feel the exact same way about improving Safer Seas. Please either stop replying if you have nothing to add or just come and get me. I'm on Barnacle Clay waiting for you PvP Kings. Come learn why you do want a better Safer Seas.

  • Capt Greldik
    Master

    @zenonxvii said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    @capt-greldik PvPvE is the current state, im waiting for PvE. hope that clears things up for you :)
    I don't think the devs should have to make anything for anyone, i believe they can do as they like and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional and entitled.
    i am simply stating my opinion, and my stance. it is obviously undeniable that a large number of people enjoy the current state of the game, and are happy doing whatever they like as you say.

    my point is simply that if the PvPvE environment is healthy in its current state, it would not matter whatsoever if they added a full PvE experience, since all the people who are happy with the current state of the inclusion of PvP, alongside the PvE, would not need to migrate to safe seas. everyone who likes how the game is now, would simply stay, and more people would just start playing and buying. to say that Safe Seas would ruin the game by dividing the playerbase, is admitting that the PvP aspects of SoT are not desirable as a gameplay feature, hence the assumption that a large exodus of players would migrate away from the High Seas.

    its up to the devs, i respect any decision they make, im just waiting patiently for what i would consider inevitable, but again, this is just my opinion :)
    hope you all are having a great day :)

    I was specifically addressing this comment:

    PvP players didn't want to just fight each other, their enjoyment has to come at the expense of someone else :)

    This is a common trope in the “I don’t like PvP” post. I pointed out that if anyone in sot is just a “pvp player”, then they’re doing solely hourglass, because that’s the only place in this game that isn’t PvPvE; however, one could argue that even hourglass is PvPvE. Those people definitely exist, though. Everyone else is a PvPvE player, whether they like it or not. The message you were sending in that last sentence with the smiley face is that “pvp players just want victims, not real fights”, and there is no basis for that from the games reality from my 2700 hours. You want to separate PvE and PvP players, but everyone in this game is PvPvE. If you think that random swabbies or otherwise who set sail with the intent of doing an event don’t take opportunities when they see them, you’re wrong. Does that make them “pvp players”?

    I’d be disappointed if they spent more time on a pve server because for one, that takes dev time (which I’m assuming is in short supply on in aged game with a lower population) away from things that I, an actual active player, would actually participate in, and for two, new players might get caught up in the sailing simulator and develop a fear for trying the actual game that rare intended for us to play.

    But hey, maybe it’ll happen. I wonder how many hours one might be expected to put into left clicking skeletons with zero threat or challenge.

  • SuctionCorn5220
    Sailor

    The strawman's are running wild in this topic. Why do you all keep acting like PvPvE means PvP is mandatory. Dear lord it's a sandbox game.

    I’d be disappointed if they spent more time on a pve server because for one, that takes dev time (which I’m assuming is in short supply on in aged game with a lower population) away from things that I, an actual active player, would actually participate in, and for two, new players might get caught up in the sailing simulator and develop a fear for trying the actual game that rare intended for us to play.

    Watchu mean you are an "active player" but someone else isn't 😂 90% of the game is PvE and Safer Seas ain't even singlerplayer... I literally talked about playing with someone else higher on the post, why does everyone keep pretending like fighting players is the core of the game and mandatory. My good people go play CS or League or something if you think like this. You are the ones playing the wrong game. And I think you just want the topic removed, why can't mods remove these replies, is it okay to just flood posts with "nuh hunn i don't care, dumb idea"? Is that how community participation pushes development nowadays, by who becomes the winner bully?

  • ZenonXVII
    Castaway

    @capt-greldik fair enough, my wording was bad, im mostly referring to PvP players as the kinds of players that only fight for the sake of fighting, they don't partake in roleplay, they'll chase you and sink you even when you have nothing. im not saying this is any kind of majority, as its always been clear that the type of people you encounter on the seas come in a broad spectrum, but encountering these PvP only minded players outside of hourglass still happens, and there is no way to prevent them from acting that way without removing their fun as well. im not looking for that, i dont want the game to be ruined for PvPvE players, being the majority of the active player base since launch.

    i personally would love to click skeletons for hundreds of hours. we simply want different things is all, that doesn't have to be a bad thing. i love simulator games too, especially flight sims. black flag remake has been a blast as well.

    i understand that everyone who plays on the high seas is PvPvE by nature of the game, its just that not everyone plays it like this, and even the possibility of unexpected dangers can cause anxiety and stress that some people simply do not want to feel in their relaxing video game time. not all games are made for everyone, but that doesn't magically mean we don't want all games to be enjoyable either. i want the choice to either play without stress, or thrive in the danger. im not saying the game is bad, im not saying the playerbase is toxic, im just saying that there will always be bad eggs, and one bad egg makes the entire house stink. some people can deal, some cant. i just prefer not to.

    like hell, i literally paid 70$ to click on purple sand and watch an ornithopter glide for 20 mins, over 1000h and call it satisfying gameplay. i can assure you that people would rush in from the woodwork to repopulate the game if they marketed a better PvE experience, and since the PvP and the PvPvE options are both well fleshed out and balanced, it wont kill the high seas like games with badly designed PvP(vE) systems. if anything, once people get a hang for the game and find crews, the PvPvE and PvP modes would see rises in player counts as people experimented with leaving their comfort zones in a game they already enjoy without them.

    thats just how i think it would shake out ofc, i don't have any relevant degrees to qualify these statements truly xD

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @zenonxvii said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    @lem0n-curry Yeah i think there are a lot of people who muddy the waters by thinking they are owed a certain experience in every IP.

    I certainly don't think that the devs should cater to anyone specifically, and should focus on making the game they want, and there are a lot of horror stories that just cant be true, the odds of a bad experience every single time are astronomical, and just whining.

    I've played a dozen or so hours myself, over a few days as a solo sloop about 5 years ago, i tried engaging in the PvP a few times, both hunting others and defending myself, I'm certainly not against the existence of PvP in the game, and cant deny that as a game about pirating, it makes absolute perfect sense as well. i acknowledge that wanting a safe experience when it comes to other players, makes far less sense from a roleplay perspective, just going off the name of the game. it is just that i personally don't enjoy the idea of taking time from others even in a digital sense, although no hate to the ones who act as pirates in the pirate game xP and in fairness, i also encountered a decent number of kind sailors who asked if i was new, and helped me with advice and even some co-op instead of just sinking me outright and chasing me across the map. i learned how to play from people inside the game some people say is so toxic. people can be toxic sure, but most aren't. it just wasn't for me is all.

    I understand, the PvP aspect of the game was what gave me doubt to buy it 8 years ago, so I tried it with game pass for a month. Yeah, I did get chased, sunk and wasted "hours" of getting loot that I was not able to turn in. Killing metal skellies on a large island and then get "sneaked up" upon by a Galleon and spawned at the other side of the map. I was mad when I first got sunk 😁.
    Not that I would have any chance of winning that fight if I was only one island over but it took them the time I spend getting half way to kill those skellies with four people.

    I can enjoy the game solo, avoiding world events (though I just did 15 Ashen Lords Raid voyages in three sessions and only got interupted once) and turn in regurlarly so in those cases I can't escape I have the feeling I haven't lost much.
    Or when I go to a world event, I don't expect to be able to finish it undisturbed and just take little wins (e.g. hiding so the encounter finished still counts for a time limited event and maybe get away with a chest or two on a row boat). When that works, it feels better than doing it under safe conditions would.

    I would not have played this game for 8 years when it would have been only PvE and I certainly wouldn't have bought this game when it was just PvP.

    in regards to the aggression concerns, the hostile crews have been the main reason these forum posts exist, as these people just want a way to avoid specifically that. as the fact that some people get chased to the ends of the map for hours on end, is forcing gameplay. they no longer get to do whatever they want, and feel like they are wasting their gaming time, as being forced to do anything is generally not enjoyable. it's only happened to me once, slurs and everything being thrown out and any kills i got were met with literal screaming about me cheating somehow (i had good coaches) just the one encounter after hours of fun made me want to play something else. that's not a dig at the game, its a dig at specific types of players, and those players are a problem in every PvP game, and also impossible to prevent. nobody likes a troll after all, that I'm sure we can probably all agree on, since they infect both PvP and PvE environments, just not equally.

    Toxic players sure do decrease the enjoyment of the game. You can mute them though, alas it may hamper interactions with non-toxic crews as well. Also record and report - those players should be removed from the game.
    While it may not help in the current situation; if they don't ban evade, it does help other crews who won't encounter them anymore.

    yeah i see your point about double reward weekends being a divider, i think it would be better if the PvE and PvPvE weren't transferrable, and PvE players should be unable to earn achievements or cosmetics normally earned through milestones or levels expected to be completed under normal hazard, but any cosmetics earned in the high seas, stay account wide. there are just a lot of gamers who specifically want to do nothing but grind, why not farm them for cash? alot of them are hanging back just for the wording, they hear 20% rewards and balk, but if they had just said high seas is 2x or 3x rewards, people would be lining up and falling in headfirst to grind their lives away, myself included.

    It used to be 30% not 20% and currently it is 100% but less levels to level up: the level cap was 40 and now is 25, in case you missed that change.

    If Safer Seas progression would no longer count in High Seas, it would be decremental for those new players that use Safer Seas as a tutorial, perhaps they have a nice outfit and enough gold for their own sloop only to discover they have to start from scratch when they feel confident enough to play with other crews on the server.

    Even if there is some content not in Safer Seas, it has a lot more to do than when the game was published or even 5 years ago.

    EDIT: i also believe there to be a difference between a PvP player, a PvPvE player and a PvE player, so when i state PvP in my earlier comments, im referring to just those hostile chasers who only play to sink and chase people until they quit

    Not sure if that would cut it, there are people who only enjoy and play the PvP side of the game but their behaviour with other crews isn't that much different from PvPvE'ers.
    I have encountered people like that, but those encounters are far and between. TBH we see more toxicity from people who don't like a fight / getting sunk than from players that are after us / me.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @suctioncorn5220 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    Ah what a shame. I really hoped this would be it. But the hate on Safer Seas is just too much.. we are back at arguing about it's existence instead of how to make it enjoyable which is the actual topic. (...)

    I don't see anyone doing that (*). Safer Seas should have been more tailored to new players and people playing with their young kids instead of an option for grinding without PvP.
    They could even add the FotD (with the skull voyage) for all I care, as long as they remove the Reaper chest from the loot pool.

    I can't be asked to reply directly to each minor argument but here's my general reply to all of those: no one asked for higher seas and safer seas to be the same except without PVP, even if the strawman is unintended, it's still happening. Please get on the topic or don't reply.

    From the OP:

    Captaincy with progression
    Ability to sell to the Sovereigns
    Sailing as emissaries

    What's left, besides the chance to encounter other crews (and its commendations), that makes Higher Seas differ from Safer Seas ?
    The poster didn't include earning doubloons, but not excluding it either and would probably want it as it wouldn't transfer (or its purchases) to Higher Seas ...

    (*) Edit: to clarify, since your previous post; there is one poster who said (days ago) that Rare shouldn't have introduced Safer Seas.

  • SuctionCorn5220
    Sailor

    I don't see anyone doing that (*). Safer Seas should have been more tailored to new players and people playing with their young kids instead of an option for grinding without PvP.

    It's a shame that you don't see that you do it in the exact same phrase.. This topic is about a suggestion for a feature expansion. A feature that already is somewhat established. You are not only not discussing that expansion idea (in this specific reply, you did address it for a moment in the previous one), you are saying that the base feature should have been completely different from what it is to begin with, which come on.... You are just arguing in a roundabout way that it should not have existed and they should have made a tutorial instead. I wouldn't say it is in bad faith but it is what is happening.

    I mean just think about the 2nd example you give. What would people playing with their kids do? Just sail in nothingness? What does that gamemode look like? No voyages, no treasures? The kids would spend 1 hour with their parents doing a voyage just to not see anything at the end fo it? If there are treasures what even would the rewards be? That example doesn't make sense, exactly because it is not really supporting the argument being made, the true argument is that safer seas should not be a gamemode, it should have been a tutorial, which again, is arguing about it's existence.

    They could even add the FotD (with the skull voyage) for all I care, as long as they remove the Reaper chest from the loot pool.

    Why tho? How does it affect you? How does someone else's happiness and enjoyment affect your own happiness and enjoyment? I'm not arguing against the specifics cause I think you mean no dubloons and no Reapers and of course, I can mostly agree with that but why is it so clear to you that is better "for the game"? How would it make you have a worse experience when sailing in High Seas?

    From the OP:

    Captaincy with progression
    Ability to sell to the Sovereigns
    Sailing as emissaries

    What's left, besides the chance to encounter other crews (and its commendations), that makes Higher Seas differ from Safer Seas ?
    The poster didn't include earning doubloons, but not excluding it either and would probably want it as it wouldn't transfer (or its purchases) to Higher Seas ...

    • PvP World Events

    • FOMO PvP events in general

    • Hourglass and literally the most sought out cosmetics in the game (curses)

    • An entire faction and it's cosmetics. (really 3 factions if you count the hourglass ones but I meant the Reapers and I already pointed out hourglass previously)

    • I'd agree with your point about dubloons (cause OP probably would) but adding it as an argument is gotta be some sort of fallacy, OP literally didn't say it.

    • A general disconnect from the storyline which deeply involves PvP factions

    Honestly out of the those you mentioned from OP, I'd nerf emissaries to give just a tiny boost so they'd be borderline cosmetic and RP in spirit (in safer seas) but the other 2 things absolutely. Purely QoL and personal RP stuff. Those have nothing to do with the enjoyment someone else gets out of the game.

    Again since the mod pressure, this topic got a little more honest and calm but people are still coming in just to say "no more safer seas development". Make your own topic if that's what you want to say.

    If Safer Seas progression would no longer count in High Seas, it would be decremental for those new players that use Safer Seas as a tutorial, perhaps they have a nice outfit and enough gold for their own sloop only to discover they have to start from scratch when they feel confident enough to play with other crews on the server.

    Here is the only moment where the original idea is addressed in your last 2 replies. Sure, in the rest, you are replying to other people and other points but you dedicate so much to those and then dedicate like 2 lines to the actual original idea. I don't know how to make it clearer than this.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @suctioncorn5220 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    I don't see anyone doing that (*). Safer Seas should have been more tailored to new players and people playing with their young kids instead of an option for grinding without PvP.

    It's a shame that you don't see that you do it in the exact same phrase.. This topic is about a suggestion for a feature expansion. A feature that already is somewhat established. You are not only not discussing that expansion idea (in this specific reply, you did address it for a moment in the previous one), you are saying that the base feature should have been completely different from what it is to begin with, which come on.... You are just arguing in a roundabout way that it should not have existed and they should have made a tutorial instead. I wouldn't say it is in bad faith but it is what is happening.

    If Rare would remove Forts from Safer Seas (which I don't think they should, just as an example), Safer Seas would still exist just with less features.
    The way you define existence (of Safer Seas), would mean that if they would add features, Safer Seas would no longer exist...

    I mean just think about the 2nd example you give. What would people playing with their kids do? Just sail in nothingness? What does that gamemode look like? No voyages, no treasures?

    What ? Where did I say they should remove voyages (or the loot of voyages) ? I was talking about people who don't use it as a tutorial or a way to play with their kids without possible hostile and/or toxic players around.
    I don't have the figures, but I assume most people on Safer Seas treat it as a PvE server and want to extend the possibilities to grind stuff ( see the posts on PvE servers and this and other topics about expaning Safer Seas).

    For example, they could have added a maximum of gold earned (say 1 million) for people who use both modes.

  • SuctionCorn5220
    Sailor

    @lem0n-curry

    I'm sorry but it's not very clear what argument you are making now.

    The way you define existence (of Safer Seas), would mean that if they would add features, Safer Seas would no longer exist...

    I'm not defining safer seas. Safer Seas already exist and we are suggesting it's further development. I think you are trying to basically say that Im using the same argument but with a different skin and that is not true. You argued for a fundamentally different gamemode, stripped of it's current format and changed to be a full on tutorial. We are arguing for the buttons that are set to off to be set to on. It is not the same thing.

    I mean just think about the 2nd example you give. What would people playing with their kids do? Just sail in nothingness? What does that gamemode look like? No voyages, no treasures?

    What ? Where did I say they should remove voyages (or the loot of voyages) ? I was talking about people who don't use it as a tutorial or a way to play with their kids without possible hostile and/or toxic players around.
    I don't have the figures, but I assume most people on Safer Seas treat it as a PvE server and want to extend the possibilities to grind stuff ( see the posts on PvE servers and this and other topics about expaning Safer Seas).

    Perfect. You said it loud and clear, the problem with the 20 people that came to this post to add nothing to it. You assumed. Just like all the others who assume Safer Seas is for children or for people to grind stuff for what? Showing off on the high seas? Again it's like you guys don't read your own replies. Did Rare say it's for children? Did Rare say it's a safe way to grind stuff? Honestly, anybody who is against someone else having an easier time than they had to get the same reward is deeply insecure. Not saying you are but damn. Imagine being mad at your own kids because their life is easier than yours. Because they didn't have to sweat and grind and torture themselves to get to where you are. A lot of you need to sit with yourselves and figure out why someone else's happiness feels so intensely damaging to you. I'd honestly recommend a therapist.

    I want to be able to play with my partner without her stress and anxiety spiking. I'm an active player. I'm on the forums respectfully participating in the discussion of an idea to push for that. How is this bad for the game? Why are you all so intense about shutting down ideas and not even engaging with them. The intent must be to get the posts locked for some reason but the why is beyond me.

  • MopWieldingHedgehog
    Champion
    Insider
    Moderator
    Boatswain

    @suctioncorn5220 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    Did Rare say it's for children? Did Rare say it's a safe way to grind stuff?

    What Rare has said (and what is also part of our standard reply when folks ask for a full access PvE mode) is:

    'Safer Seas will act not only as a safe space for our Tall Tale players but also for families with children who just want to pirate, for people who want to play the game but learn the ropes and it will organically feed into Adventure mode, keeping the player pool there healthy and upskilled as they've learned the mechanics.'

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @suctioncorn5220 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    @lem0n-curry

    I'm sorry but it's not very clear what argument you are making now.

    The way you define existence (of Safer Seas), would mean that if they would add features, Safer Seas would no longer exist...

    I'm not defining safer seas. Safer Seas already exist and we are suggesting it's further development. I think you are trying to basically say that Im using the same argument but with a different skin and that is not true. You argued for a fundamentally different gamemode, stripped of it's current format and changed to be a full on tutorial. We are arguing for the buttons that are set to off to be set to on. It is not the same thing.

    I'd say that would have been a better choice for Rare, so not to give an indication that most of the restrictions on Safer Seas are there to NOT make a full-fledged PvE server, what some people want but put it in a guise of "improvement to Safer Seas".
    I do not expect Rare to make those changes though, neither am I advocating to adjust Safer Seas, nonetheless IMHO it would have been a better choice.

    I mean just think about the 2nd example you give. What would people playing with their kids do? Just sail in nothingness? What does that gamemode look like? No voyages, no treasures?

    What ? Where did I say they should remove voyages (or the loot of voyages) ? I was talking about people who don't use it as a tutorial or a way to play with their kids without possible hostile and/or toxic players around.
    I don't have the figures, but I assume most people on Safer Seas treat it as a PvE server and want to extend the possibilities to grind stuff ( see the posts on PvE servers and this and other topics about expaning Safer Seas).

    Perfect. You said it loud and clear, the problem with the 20 people that came to this post to add nothing to it. You assumed. Just like all the others who assume Safer Seas is for children or for people to grind stuff for what? Showing off on the high seas? Again it's like you guys don't read your own replies. Did Rare say it's for children?

    Aye, not exclusively but no-one here is making that argument.
    From the introduction video:

    you might be somebody who just wants to relax with their friends in an environment free from intense PVP battles. Or maybe you're a parent who wants to share Sea of Thieves with your children, without the worry of other players negatively impacting their first Voyage.

    Did Rare say it's a safe way to grind stuff? Honestly, anybody who is against someone else having an easier time than they had to get the same reward is deeply insecure. Not saying you are but damn. Imagine being mad at your own kids because their life is easier than yours. Because they didn't have to sweat and grind and torture themselves to get to where you are. A lot of you need to sit with yourselves and figure out why someone else's happiness feels so intensely damaging to you. I'd honestly recommend a therapist.

    If you care to read what I said in earlier posts, I don't say that, my examples are for doing things easier on Safer Seas than on High Seas - currently. Not because it would be easier but because it would be unfair.

    I want to be able to play with my partner without her stress and anxiety spiking.

    And you can do most things on Safer Seas and in a few weeks on Custom Servers for those features NOT in Safer Seas.
    Why add features to Safer Seas that don't make sense in a sinle crew environment ?

    Your partner won't have access to cosmetics that can only be earned with higher levels or via PvP, however, that's the nature of earnable cosmetics in a PvPvE game.

    I'm an active player. I'm on the forums respectfully participating in the discussion of an idea to push for that. How is this bad for the game? Why are you all so intense about shutting down ideas and not even engaging with them. The intent must be to get the posts locked for some reason but the why is beyond me.

    I have given several examples why it would be bad for the overall game. That you dismiss those as a "minor argument" doesn't matter for the feedback on those suggestions when taken in by Rare or other posters.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @suctioncorn5220 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    (had a dentist apppointment, so I reply now to the 2nd half)

    From the OP:

    Captaincy with progression
    Ability to sell to the Sovereigns
    Sailing as emissaries

    What's left, besides the chance to encounter other crews (and its commendations), that makes Higher Seas differ from Safer Seas ?
    The poster didn't include earning doubloons, but not excluding it either and would probably want it as it wouldn't transfer (or its purchases) to Higher Seas ...

    • PvP World Events

    • FOMO PvP events in general

    • Hourglass and literally the most sought out cosmetics in the game (curses)

    • An entire faction and it's cosmetics. (really 3 factions if you count the hourglass ones but I meant the Reapers and I already pointed out hourglass previously)

    • I'd agree with your point about dubloons (cause OP probably would) but adding it as an argument is gotta be some sort of fallacy, OP literally didn't say it.

    • A general disconnect from the storyline which deeply involves PvP factions

    Honestly out of the those you mentioned from OP, I'd nerf emissaries to give just a tiny boost so they'd be borderline cosmetic and RP in spirit (in safer seas) but the other 2 things absolutely. Purely QoL and personal RP stuff. Those have nothing to do with the enjoyment someone else gets out of the game.

    Those two are not included to have an incentive to play on High Seas. Not my opinion, stated by Rare.

    What I'd miss most when I'd sail in Safer Seas besides having no time spend on putting on cosmetics on the ship is the emissary flag on the aft as I use that for wind direction.
    But even a tiny boost or even no bonus at all, if it counts towards the emissary ledger it would be an unfair advantage.

    If Safer Seas progression would no longer count in High Seas, it would be decremental for those new players that use Safer Seas as a tutorial, perhaps they have a nice outfit and enough gold for their own sloop only to discover they have to start from scratch when they feel confident enough to play with other crews on the server.

    Here is the only moment where the original idea is addressed in your last 2 replies. Sure, in the rest, you are replying to other people and other points but you dedicate so much to those and then dedicate like 2 lines to the actual original idea. I don't know how to make it clearer than this.

    I've adressed Emissaries as well in earlier posts, those were mentioned in OP and in this post I've adressed both Captaincy and Sovereigns (being incentives to play on High Seas in case you missed it).

  • Capt Greldik
    Master

    @suctioncorn5220 said in High Seas vs Safer Seas:

    The strawman's are running wild in this topic. Why do you all keep acting like PvPvE means PvP is mandatory. Dear lord it's a sandbox game.

    I’d be disappointed if they spent more time on a pve server because for one, that takes dev time (which I’m assuming is in short supply on in aged game with a lower population) away from things that I, an actual active player, would actually participate in, and for two, new players might get caught up in the sailing simulator and develop a fear for trying the actual game that rare intended for us to play.

    Watchu mean you are an "active player" but someone else isn't 😂 90% of the game is PvE and Safer Seas ain't even singlerplayer... I literally talked about playing with someone else higher on the post, why does everyone keep pretending like fighting players is the core of the game and mandatory. My good people go play CS or League or something if you think like this. You are the ones playing the wrong game. And I think you just want the topic removed, why can't mods remove these replies, is it okay to just flood posts with "nuh hunn i don't care, dumb idea"? Is that how community participation pushes development nowadays, by who becomes the winner bully?

    I mentioned my being an active player because the person I was directly responding to specifically stated that they aren’t. Reading context matters.

    Your post seems to be complaining about other people’s post, what exactly did this post of yours add to the discussion?

    Also, regarding whether pvp is mandatory, if someone attacks, one can choose to do nothing and sink, log off, scuttle and change seas, whatever they like, because like you said it’s a sandbox (kind of); however, that player versus player interaction was not optional.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    This topic keeps flexing between staying on course to arguments and bitterness

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