Doublegun (doubleshot)

  • Guildar9194
    Master

    @skelcurseirl said in Doublegun:

    @guildar9194

    Literally has 100% to do with everything. We play and lots of people use every tactical advantage available to gain advantage within the video game. Exploiting is simply defined as "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)." It is not cheating, rather making full use of what resource we have available. Guess what? It's available to everyone!

    We play and lots of people use every tactical advantage available to gain advantage within the video game

    Exploits have to be within the game. That's what an exploit IS; Something in the game that the devs did not intend.
    You pretending otherwise does not change that.

    Exploiting is simply defined as "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)."

    In video games, an exploit is the intentional use of a bug or unintended feature to gain a significant advantage, often considered cheating.
    You can 'but akshually' all you want; Exploits are, by definition of video game exploits, dishonest and cheating.
    You ignoring one definition for another does not change facts.

    Back when I was an admin for my clan's TF2 servers, we herd that excuse all the time.
    People would glitch out of bounds or under the map on 2Fort as an Engy, get temp-banned (Or perma-banned, if they were habitual offenders), and they'd come onto the forums 'It's not cheating because it's in the game!'

    For an exploit to BE an exploit, it has to be an unintended mechanic that's in the game.

  • SITjk13
    Seafarer

    @rambobrad пишет в Doublegun:

    You said you want double gunning removed.

    This is what they call "doublegun" in the game. Maybe it's a translation issue. But this is the term I hear in the game.

  • SITjk13
    Seafarer

    @captain-knyt пишет в Doublegun:

    @super87ghost only in sot do people call animation cancelling cheating lol. In other games it's just an accepted thing that you learn as you get better. It's probably because sot doesn't have matchmaking that this phenomenon occurred

    A controversial statement. I always play games like Rainbow Six, Battlefield, Call of Duty and there are no such problems, or I do not notice them, but I have tens of thousands of hours in these games. This suggests that if there is something similar there, it is not as sharp as in SOT

  • SITjk13
    Seafarer

    @skelcurseirl пишет в Doublegun:

    @sitjk13

    It isn't cheating because you're not using anything outside of the available game to gain advantage. Cheating is using exploits or cheats from outside of the game that is not intended. Literally just google video game animation cancelling and every game you could think of has them and tutorials how to use it. You can do it, you can use it.
    Nerf
    Patch
    Buff
    Adapt

    I like that you took this idea and adapted it to your own. But it's still not good. And it's still an exploit. If you doubt the term exploit, read about it on the Internet, what it means.

    P.S. as from the Star Wars quote: "You were supposed to fight evil, not join it"!

  • Th3 Tater
    Master

    @skelcurseirl

    Issue here is that the devs have made efforts to reduce it's effects, have stated that it's not intended and frowned upon.

    And before you try to get sword lunge nerfed have accepted things they consider fair game.

  • DerMasterBob
    Commander
    Insider

    @guildar9194 sagte in Doublegun (doubleshot):

    Just because an exploit is in the game (Which it would have to be to be an exploit) does not mean it's allowed or not cheating.

    Exploits are allowed though and not bannable, said by Drew Stevens himself.
    They can have consequences if you gain an unfair amount of gold and reputation, where they take back the gold and reputation, but its still not bannable.
    In those cases i might agree on your point as it is punishable, but for example quickswap, delayswap, rod launch and ladder launch don't fall into that category.
    I wouldn't consider something that is not a bannable offense a cheat.

  • SkelCurseIRL
    Marauder
    Insider

    But it's still not good.>

    Bro, I'm done. You're clearly just mad and lashing out. It aint that serious and you need a change of mentality. Exploiting is making use of all resources and cheating is using unfair advantages that is not in the game which is why you have to go outside of the game to get them. Wword lunge jump cancel is an exploit and was not intended so I guess you and all of us should stop using it too. Before you say you don't do that either then I guess the answer is get better at the game, change your mentality, stop complaining, stop asking Rare to make changes on your behalf about how others play when they spent money on the game and are not cheataing, and possibly consider picking up a new game if you can't build a bridge and get over it.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Anyone who claims exploits aren't cheats are just trying to lie to themselves to make them feel better about being a cheater.

    Whether through the use of third party software or not, breaking the intended mechanics of a game to gain an advantage is cheating.

    In singleplayer or co-op only games, you can handwave it off as hurting no-one but in PvP games it's literally about getting one over on your competitor.

    It's just sad that these kinds of players are unable to feel they can win without their cheating exploits, so they defend it as "anyone can do it, if they just look it up". And they inevitably always bring up the sword lunge, as if that's some sort of gotcha.

    The best players in the game are the ones who still win without these exploits.

  • SITjk13
    Seafarer

    @skelcurseirl пишет в Doublegun (doubleshot):

    But it's still not good.>

    Bro, I'm done. You're clearly just mad and lashing out. It aint that serious and you need a change of mentality. Exploiting is making use of all resources and cheating is using unfair advantages that is not in the game which is why you have to go outside of the game to get them. Wword lunge jump cancel is an exploit and was not intended so I guess you and all of us should stop using it too. Before you say you don't do that either then I guess the answer is get better at the game, change your mentality, stop complaining, stop asking Rare to make changes on your behalf about how others play when they spent money on the game and are not cheataing, and possibly consider picking up a new game if you can't build a bridge and get over it.

    This topic was created in the section for wishes. This is my wish, I am not attacking, I am just saying what I would like to see in the game. Well, if you are okay with using unfair play, ok, it is your choice, but not mine. I will not even try to play dirty, because it is not serious, it is just a game, and trying to prove it to someone, especially since this way it seems to be some kind of psychological trauma from childhood. But like any game, it should have rules and breaking them is playing dirty. If you are disgusted by reading my topics, why don't you stop doing it. You advised me to change the game, or get used to the exploit, I advise you not to read me, or get used to being honest with yourself.

  • toshcTDM5079
    Sailor

    @sitjk13 QS was removed and I see this as a skill issue. If you want the whole skill-based part of the game removed, just do it already – the game is dead anyway.

  • toshcTDM5079
    Sailor

    @sitjk13 QS take wasn’t an exploit, it was a fair mechanic. Just bad players complained, so they removed it. How much do you want to limit better players? We don’t want to remove PvP entirely and turn the game into a friendly pirate simulator right?

  • toshcTDM5079
    Sailor

    @skelcurseirl Literally even now the swap is really slow and no good player likes it

  • toshcTDM5079
    Sailor

    @realstyli People start calling everything exploits, but in reality that’s not true—it’s just a mechanic 💔. You might as well just turn it into a friendly pirate simulator without PvP.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @mslechtic15 said in Doublegun (doubleshot):

    @realstyli People start calling everything exploits, but in reality that’s not true—it’s just a mechanic 💔.

    Just keep deluding yourself there. Intended mechanics don't get patched or repeated attempted patches to remove them.

    If you want to use exploit cheats to win because you can't without them, just admit to that.

    You might as well just turn it into a friendly pirate simulator without PvP.

    The game is PvPvE. Always has been, always will be. But, like any game with PvP, the playing field will be adjusted to keep it fair and balanced.

    Like I said, the actual best players are the ones who win PvP encounters without the need to use exploits.

  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    Please avoid engaging in personal arguments and derailing the topic of the thread. It is fine to debate the content of the post, and the viewpoints therein, but disrespecting any of your fellow pirates personally is against the pirate code, and our forum rules.

  • SITjk13
    Seafarer

    @mslechtic15 пишет в Doublegun (doubleshot):

    @sitjk13 QS take wasn’t an exploit, it was a fair mechanic. Just bad players complained, so they removed it. How much do you want to limit better players? We don’t want to remove PvP entirely and turn the game into a friendly pirate simulator right?

    When I meet opponents in the game who do not play dirty (use exploits), I have much more fun playing like that and I get much more positive emotions. And we have cool PvP. Even if me and my team lose. When I meet cheaters or similar players, my gaming experience turns into running away to another server and this is not cool. You have to understand that PvP is not only trying to achieve victory by any means possible. You do not play for your last cowards. You will not die if you lose. Yes, in this game you literally do not even lose anything if you lose, except for time. But dirty players prefer to spend their time looking for vulnerabilities in order to dominate later. Doubtful leisure.

  • RamboBrad
    Legend
    Insider

    @sitjk13 Are you sure people are exploiting? Here's a clip of me shooting 2 guns at normal speed with 0 exploits (if this forum allows the link) https://streamable.com/xiikrn

  • DerMasterBob
    Commander
    Insider

    @rambobrad sagte in Doublegun (doubleshot):

    @sitjk13 Are you sure people are exploiting? Here's a clip of me shooting 2 guns at normal speed with 0 exploits (if this forum allows the link) https://streamable.com/xiikrn

    He's propably not sure.
    Just the possibility of people exploiting is the reason for his post.

  • Valor Omega
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @captain-knyt Just because other games allow for cheesy, cornball tactics like animation cancels as part of their "skill ceiling" (lol skill and exploit use should never be in the same sentence), doesn't mean SoT needs to operate the same.

  • Valor Omega
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @th3-tater b-b-b-but sword lunge is an exploit too and needs to be nerfed, if our precious gun exploits are nerfed /s

  • Valor Omega
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @realstyli Facts.

    Here's the hard truth no one wants to hear/admit; if someone needs to utilize animation cancels, etc to be "more skilled" in combat, they're not as good as they think they are.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @valor-omega said in Doublegun (doubleshot):

    @realstyli Facts.

    Here's the hard truth no one wants to hear/admit; if someone needs to utilize animation cancels, etc to be "more skilled" in combat, they're not as good as they think they are.

    I just find it very ironic that they will spend so much time learning one parlour trick and trying to manufacture the same rote plays to make it happen, rather than spending time to adapt to more situations.

    Nothing is more thrilling in the game than actually outplaying your opponent through smarts and reading them entirely. When I did my Hourglass grind, I learned how to make these kinds of predictable players lose through their own ineptitudes and over-confidence. They only had one strategy. And when it didn't work, they were rarely gracious in defeat. I always admired the ones who actually played fair and beat me by just being better within the confines of intended mechanics.

    The exploit cheaters will say as a response to this that we should patch the sword lunge "exploit" as well - honestly, if that means no more DG quickswitching and no more excuses, then I'd take that.

  • Valor Omega
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @realstyli Absolutely haha - I've had my fair share of those instances, too. I've found that a lot of crews who may be good at gunplay are woefully underprepared for ship naval, and that's where my crew and I excel.

    And nah, sword lunge can stay. I don't care if exploiters get mad and cry unfair - the devs have already said that Sword Lunge was an adopted feature.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @valor-omega said in Doublegun (doubleshot):

    And nah, sword lunge can stay. I don't care if exploiters get mad and cry unfair - the devs have already said that Sword Lunge was an adopted feature.

    Oh, I just meant that it's not the big "gotcha" bargaining chip they think it is. I could still win the fights I win without it, but it is very useful for mobility outside of combat.

  • Valor Omega
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @realstyli Oh for sure. I always have to retort with, "well there's no scenario where sword lunge 1 hit kills". And no one has been able to come up with a good rebuttal of that lol.

  • SITjk13
    Seafarer

    @rambobrad пишет в Doublegun (doubleshot):

    @sitjk13 Are you sure people are exploiting? Here's a clip of me shooting 2 guns at normal speed with 0 exploits (if this forum allows the link) https://streamable.com/xiikrn

    Sorry, but I don't go to third-party links. In any case, what I was talking about in this topic is a known fact, including for developers. That is, if you showed normal shooting in your video: shot, change, shot and everything in about a second or two - this is NORMAL, I was talking about situations when two shots happen almost instantly

  • SITjk13
    Seafarer

    @valor-omega пишет в Doublegun (doubleshot):

    @th3-tater b-b-b-but sword lunge is an exploit too and needs to be nerfed, if our precious gun exploits are nerfed /s

    But a sword attack won't kill you from a distance when you're on another ship and at full HP.

  • RamboBrad
    Legend
    Insider

    @sitjk13 It's about a flat second between shots in the clip by hip-firing the the second gun instead of adsing. I think "delay swapping" is about the same.

    Anything faster that that will be cheats/PAK files, which should be getting a seeing to judging by tomorrow the latest developer update. I guess we will see

  • Siryus Nox
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    Hi, just want to write my opinion and I think the skip of the draw animation should be fixed OR enabled for everyone just making the draw faster (not using weird buttons combos)

    Skip animations in any way isn't a skill or tactic, it's a trick. Just like sword launch but this one has less impact in pvp, while skipping draw animation is a big advantage.
    Think about who need accessibility devices or options, how could they do this? it's pretty unfair. And nothing in the game tell you how to do, you need to ask to friends/watch videos/read forums.
    It's not a capability of good players. Good aim, smart tactics are.

    I'm okay if some player wanna play SoT like a frenetic fps (even if I think you log in the wrong game in this case), but things have to be clear and same for everyone and if someone doesn't agree to make fast draw for everyone they just want to have advantage agaist who wanna simply run the game, make experience and learn good tactics just playing normally without looking fot tricks to avoid animation or anything else.

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