Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content

  • @l0cke547

    Im just curious what u guys think, if im on a server with an exploited burning blade on it. Am i ethicly fine to sink it and sell its sword to a trading company in order to get rep? I mean it could be legit right!? what do i know!? Its not like im doing an exploit in any shape or form. This might be a good time to bring all my Emi lvls to 500.

    I do not think a player should be punished because someone else exploited, and you stole it. That would set the precedent that in the future if any exploits are found you should not fight them because you won't get anything for it, and if you do you may be punished too. All that would do is literally protect exploiters by making other players afraid to even go near them less they get thrown into the mess as well.

    Whether you want to make millions and insane levels off of exploiters is up to you until Rare decide what they want to do. I wouldn't condone nor condemn it. But as I said in my post, I have stolen exploited swords.

  • Also just wanna thank everyone for over 100 replies now. I'm happy to have a space to talk about this as we cannot apparently discuss it in the Discord. Its nice to hear a lot of different viewpoints on big SoT topics, each backed up with their own reasonings and mindsets.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @l0cke547

    Im just curious what u guys think, if im on a server with an exploited burning blade on it. Am i ethicly fine to sink it and sell its sword to a trading company in order to get rep? I mean it could be legit right!? what do i know!? Its not like im doing an exploit in any shape or form. This might be a good time to bring all my Emi lvls to 500.

    I do not think a player should be punished because someone else exploited, and you stole it. That would set the precedent that in the future if any exploits are found you should not fight them because you won't get anything for it, and if you do you may be punished too. All that would do is literally protect exploiters by making other players afraid to even go near them less they get thrown into the mess as well.

    Whether you want to make millions and insane levels off of exploiters is up to you until Rare decide what they want to do. I wouldn't condone nor condemn it. But as I said in my post, I have stolen exploited swords.

    For years there have been people passing through the feedback sections that were struggling with imbalanced risk/reward in this game. They didn't have the connections and the crews or the experience to make the game a cakewalk like it is for the regulars.

    They are met with one line zinger after one line zinger. Rude replies in their moments of frustrations. Looking down that them in a game where it was never truly balanced. It was always way more difficult for those without the connections and without the time to play.

    How many people have had their first feedback experience covered in condescending replies about this game?

    Now people are trying to find ways to justify selling things that are an entire pirate's life worth of gold from exploits?

    Of course they shouldn't sell it, of course it should be condemned as an action.

    People have a chance to back up years of their replies with principled decisions. Bans or not, rollbacks or not, it's gross hypocrisy for experienced players to be cashing in on this in any way.

  • @wolfmanbush

    Of course they shouldn't sell it, of course it should be condemned as an action.

    Selling something is not against the rules, exploiting is against the rules. If I sell something someone else exploited, I have not exploited, I have not broken the rules. It is a matter of morals. For Rare to punish players for not breaking rules would be a very bad look, on a mountain of very bad looks they are currently on. They would need to make a public statement to not sell the swords, and then start looking at punishment. even then, not everyone looks at the socials, the vast majority of the playerbase is casual and won't see that. So to be punished because you didn't see a new rule posted on twitter/discord would be wild. As I said in the message you replied to, I don't condone nor condemn it, I won't suggest doing it nor tell you not to. But in my eyes Rare are absolutely in the wrong if they take the route of punishment for people selling exploited swords, as they have broken 0 rules.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @wolfmanbush

    Of course they shouldn't sell it, of course it should be condemned as an action.

    Selling something is not against the rules, exploiting is against the rules. If I sell something someone else exploited, I have not exploited, I have not broken the rules. It is a matter of morals. For Rare to punish players for not breaking rules would be a very bad look, on a mountain of very bad looks they are currently on. They would need to make a public statement to not sell the swords, and then start looking at punishment. even then, not everyone looks at the socials, the vast majority of the playerbase is casual and won't see that. So to be punished because you didn't see a new rule posted on twitter/discord would be wild. As I said in the message you replied to, I don't condone nor condemn it, I won't suggest doing it nor tell you not to. But in my eyes Rare are absolutely in the wrong if they take the route of punishment for people selling exploited swords, as they have broken 0 rules.

    Knowingly benefiting (especially repeatedly) from extreme exploiting is something that can be enforced against.

    Every player in this game that is skilled enough to take these ships down is aware of the exploit existing, they are aware it is wrong.

    It's more than a moral conversation, it's also against ToS which is why accounts that receive stolen goods can be subject to consequences. Otherwise people would just load up mains with alt activity. It very much falls under ToS and everyone involved is aware of the issue.

    It makes no sense to get involved even if people have not moral issues with it. It's not worth the risk.

    Everyone that posts here, social media, discord, all aware. There is no pretending people don't know about what they are doing on this. Intentionally cashing in on the product of an extreme exploit. It's marked clearly.

  • Two consistent things that comes up in these discussions are always sword lunge and quick swap. I think that we need to stop this narrative. Just because players aren't banned/punished for every exploit does not mean that all exploits should be exempt from repercussions of some kind. In most progressive societies, theft, for example, is not treated the same across the board. If a child steals a pack of gum from a store, they're not going to receive the same punishment as someone who commits grand theft. There's no reason for us to be talking about fairly insignificant exploits that have been left relatively or entirely unpunished when discussing an exploit which gives the exploiters crazy amounts of millions, in addition to piles of levels.

    We all have our opinions, but in my opinion, quick swap and sword lunge (especially sword lunge) fall pretty low on the spectrum of impactful significant exploits. I for one do not feel impacted by sword lunge, and I don't think that sword lunge is changing gameplay for anyone in a significant way. So what if someone gets to an island faster? The players using the BB exploit are committing Bernie Madoff level crime; they know that what they're doing is not intended, and they know that the hundreds of millions of gold, and the tens of levels per turn-in are ill-gotten. Saying that they shouldn't face repercussions because other, far less impactful exploits have not seen a firm hand does not make sense. Also, the idea that "Rare needs to fix their game, it's their fault, nobody should be punished" is ludicrous. If an ATM in real life has a glitch known to some, and you choose to exploit that glitch, do you not think you'd face repercussions? This is a game, not IRL, I get that, but we base our approach to punishment in games off of our IRL morality & ethics, and of course on what will or won't break the game. Every game I've ever played takes action against exploiters, to at least some degree and dependent on the impact of the exploit. If you're getting tens and hundreds of millions of gold based on an exploit, you know what you did, lol. I'm not even saying that these people should be banned (depending on how many marks their account already has), but to suggest that they shouldn't see any action on their account at all is ridiculous.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @th3-tater

    So just out of curiosity. To make this more annoying for those doing it...
    If I interrupt a ritual at a camp, how long before the BB could do it, what's the cool down timer?
    If I dive to a voyage, (not a raid. I did the small island single captain OoS) and end up at a Camp, does it mess with the orb like a raid dive does?
    Hehe. Let's fight a little lol.

    I believe the reset timer on Skeleton Camps is 15 minutes of nobody loading in the Island. The same as Sea Forts and Shrines.

    I like where your head is at though lol. We did something similar yesterday preventing a crew getting their stack going. We ran down into the puzzle room doing it, my teammate did it while I defended him. Put a keg on the stairs to kill the first guy that came in. Its worth noting that if you are down there you respawn just outside the puzzle room, meaning once someone is down there, they're gonna keep spawning until they choose to leave. We then had to effectively tdm and consistently win while progressing the puzzle until we finally completed it and prevented them from doing the exploit.

    If you do this, make sure you do NOT pick up the Orb. There is a commendation for Burning Blade crew selling a Stolen Orb, don't give that to the exploiters. Just stop the ritual to spawn the orb, but don't take it off the pedestal. That'll still prevent them doing the exploit but won't give their commendation.

    Eh. I'm not against them getting that comm. But keeping then from resupplying is my main goal.

    It's like the Adventure where we had to go around capturing the sea forts but a little more lopsided.

    I've been enjoying watching the BB struggle with aggressive players from a safe distance.

    Just here to mess up or at least make it harder to do this glitchsploit. Chaos baby!

  • @wolfmanbush

    i dont think its that easy, yeah you can hold yourself to high morals, but it is not my job as a customer to make judgements and decisions on wether a loot item could be exploited or not, and act accordingly. you cant hold your customer accountable to such a standard. and i think you shouldnt. not the people exploiting, and not the people stealing probably exploited items.

    in a moraly perfect world i can see your point. but this is a video game. a funny pirate video game.

    im so curious on how the whole situation is gonna be handled and i cant wrap my head around this has not been adressed/patched or talked about by the devs/rare.

  • @capt-greldik

    Two consistent things that comes up in these discussions are always sword lunge and quick swap. I think that we need to stop this narrative. Just because players aren't banned/punished for every exploit does not mean that all exploits should be exempt from repercussions of some kind. In most progressive societies, theft, for example, is not treated the same across the board. If a child steals a pack of gum from a store, they're not going to receive the same punishment as someone who commits grand theft. There's no reason for us to be talking about fairly insignificant exploits that have been left relatively or entirely unpunished when discussing an exploit which gives the exploiters crazy amounts of millions, in addition to piles of levels.

    The point wasn't that these exploits are comparable to the ritual exploit. Moreso that the idea that all exploits are bannable would be problematic considering how many exploits exist, how often new ones are made, and how slow they are to patch out.

    I for one do not feel impacted by sword lunge, and I don't think that sword lunge is changing gameplay for anyone in a significant way. So what if someone gets to an island faster?

    You're only applying that to PvE getting to an Island faster. Extended Sword Lunge can be the difference between someone making the board and winning the fight or not. And thats not like a niche situation its a very common use of it. In that regards it is comparable to fishing rod launch which again lets you get boards you would not be able to make. One is stronger than the other clearly but they both give that same form of advantage. We are used to Extended Sword Lunge existing so we accept that that's how people can board. If SoT turned around and decided that you can move around in the air in order to make boarding easier for newer players by lowering the skill required to exactly aim where you need to board. We would get use to that and then it wouldn't be something as wild as we see it today. I'm not saying they should do that, just that its the same logic.

    the idea that "Rare needs to fix their game, it's their fault, nobody should be punished" is ludicrous. If an ATM in real life has a glitch known to some, and you choose to exploit that glitch, do you not think you'd face repercussions?

    I key difference you have there is that taking money from an ATM machine would be taking other peoples money. If you steal from a bank that effects other people directly as that bank won't have that money to give to others. That bank has limited funds and would need to find that elsewhere to pay back their customers. In a video game there is no bank, it is infinite money, you making money doesn't take from a big money pot and prevent others taking it. You may say that's not the point you're making, but I mean that is why abusing an ATM like that would be punishable. When real security flaws like that do occur its the Bank that gets the heat for it and pressure to fix it. If you apply that to SoT, it is up to Rare to fix things in a timely manner if they don't want very strong things being abused. Of course people using it to an insane degree should have some form of punishment such as a rollback or losing all their gold and rep gained.

  • @l0cke547

    i cant wrap my head around this has not been adressed/patched or talked about by the devs/rare.

    The most recent insane gold exploit was the fleet exploit and it took months to fix. There was a sweet spot where you could have a fleet ship spawn in, sail away, and despawn. each time it respawned it had new loot on it. One of the fixes they did was that only every other ship that spawns has the hero loot from a dived voyage. This cuts the strength of the exploit by half, but also means the actual intended gameplay method is impacted by it now being weaker.

    They also did similar with the LoTV exploit. Instead of actually fixing the cause of the issue, they applied a bandaid temporary fix which prevented the Shipwreck Graveyard spawning as the first chapter of the voyage, which is a fine bandaid, but then as far as I know they just never did the real fix, and you still cannot get a Chapter 1 Shipwrecked Graveyard. There are comms to do 50 of each different LoTV Module. The other 2 could spawn both during Chapter 1 and 2, but Graveyards only on Chapter 2, making it Rarer and therefore skewing those commendations.

    Whether we get the fix to the Ritual exploit soon or in a month is something we'll have to wait and see. We'll also have to wait and see if they actually figure out a fix or just decide to do something that prevents it, but also impacts the intended gameplay in a negative way.

  • @l0cke547 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @wolfmanbush

    i dont think its that easy, yeah you can hold yourself to high morals, but it is not my job as a customer to make judgements and decisions on wether a loot item could be exploited or not, and act accordingly. you cant hold your customer accountable to such a standard. and i think you shouldnt. not the people exploiting, and not the people stealing probably exploited items.

    in a moraly perfect world i can see your point. but this is a video game. a funny pirate video game.

    im so curious on how the whole situation is gonna be handled and i cant wrap my head around this has not been adressed/patched or talked about by the devs/rare.

    Integrity and principles aren't about perfection. All of us make mistakes all the time in some form. All of us do things that aren't completely in line with decent conduct.

    We always have a choice though, every new moment, every new day, every new test. We have a choice.

    If we choose to do what we know to be wrong then that is on us if there are consequences, that's not on Rare or what anyone else did, that's on us. We agreed to the rules of the environment. We agreed to fair play.

    It's irrelevant that it's the internet and it's irrelevant that it's a game. Our conduct is always important, our integrity is always important, principles of decency and fairness are always important.

    Nobody is a bad person over this stuff, it's just not the right thing to do. It's not what any of us agreed to. How can we expect others to clean things up if we aren't willing to do our part?

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    They also did similar with the LoTV exploit. Instead of actually fixing the cause of the issue, they applied a bandaid temporary fix which prevented the Shipwreck Graveyard spawning as the first chapter of the voyage, which is a fine bandaid, but then as far as I know they just never did the real fix, and you still cannot get a Chapter 1 Shipwrecked Graveyard. There are comms to do 50 of each different LoTV Module. The other 2 could spawn both during Chapter 1 and 2, but Graveyards only on Chapter 2, making it Rarer and therefore skewing those commendations.

    You 100% can get a Shipwrecked Graveyard as Chapter 1. Just logged in to confirm and got one within 3 rolls.

    They fixed the exploit by making all the loot disappear with the wreck when you cancel the voyage (IIRC, initially this fix was bugged and would delete all your LotV loot, but they seem to have patched that, too).

  • @realstyli

    You 100% can get a Shipwrecked Graveyard as Chapter 1. Just logged in to confirm and got one within 3 rolls.

    Oh neat, no idea when they did that but glad to see its back to full functionality. though I know it was left with the bandaid fix for quite a while.

  • @wallyscag1817 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @onedeviousdog said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    96 levels of Athena for one sword. Kinda makes Athena voyages the biggest joke on non cheese pirates. Demotivation engaged.

    Its the problem with designing a game with streamer focus as first priority, average real person players with lives and jobs and other hobbies who aren't trying to make the game their job get it in the booty.

    100 percent, the amount of time it would take the average person to complete most of these achievements, is near impossible for those of us who can only play for a few days every three weeks, or even a few hours every week.

    It’s no wonder players take advantage of the exploits. Doesn’t excuse it but I can see why.

  • @cageycanuck said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @wallyscag1817 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @onedeviousdog said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    96 levels of Athena for one sword. Kinda makes Athena voyages the biggest joke on non cheese pirates. Demotivation engaged.

    Its the problem with designing a game with streamer focus as first priority, average real person players with lives and jobs and other hobbies who aren't trying to make the game their job get it in the booty.

    100 percent, the amount of time it would take the average person to complete most of these achievements, is near impossible for those of us who can only play for a few days every three weeks, or even a few hours every week.

    It’s no wonder players take advantage of the exploits. Doesn’t excuse it but I can see why.

    Yep, design a game around dudes who make it their job to play it, and also make it their job to race to break it for views/clout, for the influenced to copycat, and say silly things like "tools not rules" as devs and its a marvel any of us wonder why rare cant get their hands around it and have largely lost control of their own game and allowed it to jump the shark so far from where it started. Think its bad now just wait, the whole "magic of shared world encounters" malarkey (they really meant players = content) hasn't even begun to be undermined yet lol.

  • their silence when exploits like this happens speaks loads. if they were going to ban anyone taking part you think they would make a public statement. i think their stance is always so few people are cheesing it that its not really having that big of an impact. and in a game like this thats all about farming gold and rep as end game they are just hitting the goal post sooner thus ruining the replayability for themselves. still think its crazy weird that they thought burying emissary flags and unburying them to remove "yours" was ban worthy though but all this other stuff isnt. the number of people whos experience that ruined? 0. the number of people who spent a literal month losing hourglass streaks because someone would go park at shores of gold during hourglass.... 0 bans

  • @keylessword4029 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    their silence when exploits like this happens speaks loads. if they were going to ban anyone taking part you think they would make a public statement. i think their stance is always so few people are cheesing it that its not really having that big of an impact. and in a game like this thats all about farming gold and rep as end game they are just hitting the goal post sooner thus ruining the replayability for themselves. still think its crazy weird that they thought burying emissary flags and unburying them to remove "yours" was ban worthy though but all this other stuff isnt. the number of people whos experience that ruined? 0. the number of people who spent a literal month losing hourglass streaks because someone would go park at shores of gold during hourglass.... 0 bans

    Every leader (of any amount of influence) in this community on the player side that in any way encouraged this or made it look like it was safe or ethically sound misused their influence and were irresponsible with the power they hold.

    This should be an eye opening experience for those that follow others and look up to others. Leaders worth following will not set their crew up to fail. It doesn't matter what leaders think should happen, all that matters is keeping the crew out of unnecessary risk, out of unnecessary danger. Every person that profits off this community, that enjoys the social perks of popularity and social power owes it to the people that look to them for guidance to give good advice, not self serving direction.

    Nobody should be sweatin' over this because nobody should have done it, nobody should have condoned it or dismissed it, nobody should have sent dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of people out there to put their accounts at risk because it's "rare's fault" "it's not 3rd party" etc.

    The only responsible thing to do with influence is to say "don't do it" "if you're doing it, stop it" "Don't excuse or dismiss it". "It is wrong to do and it is a violation of ToS"

    Players shouldn't go looking to blame Rare if something happens, they should use this as an opportunity to reflect on the type of leadership they are looking to in times like these.

  • Meanwhile a sea of thieves partner is currently live and showing/doing exploits. To me, this is an attempt to soften the view on exploits. Maybe to sway rare and community to be lenient on the latest game breaking exploit. In any case, I'm just simply moving on otherwise emotion will enter the fray.

  • @onedeviousdog said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    Meanwhile a sea of thieves partner is currently live and showing/doing exploits. To me, this is an attempt to soften the view on exploits. Maybe to sway rare and community to be lenient on the latest game breaking exploit. In any case, I'm just simply moving on otherwise emotion will enter the fray.

    If an SoT partner is doing exploits; They should no longer be a partner. They have a moral obligation, as a kind of 'face' for the game, to be a better player.
    And feel free to report them on Twitch; Twitch takes a very dim view on people showing/encouraging cheating.

  • @keylessword4029

    Without a doubt true. Watching streamers crud launch makes me shudder. This shouldn't be a part of the game. If anyone thinks using a fishing pole to allow you to direct and extend where you go once you fire out of a cannon is intended that's ludicrous. Is it a bug? Yes. Should using it be bannable? Not in my opinion. But a SoT partner certainly shouldn't be doing it.

    The exploit here to gen up massive ritual performance counts on the BB involved a deliberate act. These folks knew exactly what they were doing. It should be punished accordingly. This wouldn't fly on a Sony or Blizzard game at all.

  • @nafod81 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    The exploit here to gen up massive ritual performance counts on the BB involved a deliberate act. These folks knew exactly what they were doing. It should be punished accordingly. This wouldn't fly on a Sony or Blizzard game at all.

    People were getting banned for this type of dupe 25 years ago. It's widely known as a no no in online gaming. It violates every serious ToS in online gaming. It's an xbox ToS violation.

    It's just ignoring all history of gaming for people to act like this is not something that can lead to banning. Trusting that a company won't ban over extreme and obvious ToS violations is never the way to go.

    Hundreds of millions in gold from duping on some accounts lol, nobody should have ever thought that was just gonna slide just because some cheesy stuff might have slipped past before.

    Comparing intentional duping to cheese strats and alliance servers isn't gonna fly. The specific act that was done is 100% intentional duping (to a very extreme amount), which is cheating.

    The super extreme method is super clear as a cheat, more clear than the athena shipwreck thing (which was bad) and the season 11 exploiting and whatever people were doing in 12. I always warned here of it escalating and this recent one is very much bannable. Doesn't mean they will but it's the most clear cheating that has been mass done in the game to date.

  • It was more than crud launch on stream. It was also supplies glitch and a bullying attitude towards the criticism of it's use. " What's the big deal it's just supps so whatever." It's cringe for him to make light of someone critical of him using the exploit and it is encouraging his viewers to use them. IT IS an unfair advantage to have EVERYTHING (not just one pineapple but many, not just 50 cannonballs in a single crate but 500 from multiple crates) on demand while the others have to take the time to search and gather. Supplies do matter. It's always ok to do these exploits because hey, it's him and he's special because he streams. I have a simple solution as per this acceptance of SOME exploits, just release a statement that you're good with them. That way I can save craploads of time in each of my sessions or after HG sinks with 1000's of wood pineapples and cannonballs. All good nothing to see here.

  • @onedeviousdog said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    Meanwhile a sea of thieves partner is currently live and showing/doing exploits. To me, this is an attempt to soften the view on exploits. Maybe to sway rare and community to be lenient on the latest game breaking exploit. In any case, I'm just simply moving on otherwise emotion will enter the fray.

    I've entered.
    Perma bans for all.

  • @onedeviousdog said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    It was more than crud launch on stream. It was also supplies glitch and a bullying attitude towards the criticism of it's use. " What's the big deal it's just supps so whatever." It's cringe for him to make light of someone critical of him using the exploit and it is encouraging his viewers to use them. IT IS an unfair advantage to have EVERYTHING (not just one pineapple but many, not just 50 cannonballs in a single crate but 500 from multiple crates) on demand while the others have to take the time to search and gather. Supplies do matter. It's always ok to do these exploits because hey, it's him and he's special because he streams. I have a simple solution as per this acceptance of SOME exploits, just release a statement that you're good with them. That way I can save craploads of time in each of my sessions or after HG sinks with 1000's of wood pineapples and cannonballs. All good nothing to see here.

    If you have evidence of this (stream) put in a report with that evidence. Duplication exploits are 100% against TOS. It is not okay for a Sea of Thieves-Partnered streamer to use these exploits or showcase how to do them. They have been informed as much.

  • @onedeviousdog said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    It was more than crud launch on stream. It was also supplies glitch and a bullying attitude towards the criticism of it's use. " What's the big deal it's just supps so whatever." It's cringe for him to make light of someone critical of him using the exploit and it is encouraging his viewers to use them. IT IS an unfair advantage to have EVERYTHING (not just one pineapple but many, not just 50 cannonballs in a single crate but 500 from multiple crates) on demand while the others have to take the time to search and gather. Supplies do matter. It's always ok to do these exploits because hey, it's him and he's special because he streams. I have a simple solution as per this acceptance of SOME exploits, just release a statement that you're good with them. That way I can save craploads of time in each of my sessions or after HG sinks with 1000's of wood pineapples and cannonballs. All good nothing to see here.

    It's always the ones who say "whats the big deal?" "its just supplies" "its just gold" "its just a game" that cant see the irony in saying "its just a game" when they cant just play it win or lose and have fun they have to cheat their balls off to have advantage to enjoy it. If its not a big deal why cheat? If its not a big deal why do they need advantage?

  • @guildar9194

    If an SoT partner is doing exploits; They should no longer be a partner. They have a moral obligation, as a kind of 'face' for the game, to be a better player.
    And feel free to report them on Twitch; Twitch takes a very dim view on people showing/encouraging cheating.

    SoT Partners have always used exploits, Rare also endorse other players and communities due to their excellent use of exploits. I myself have fought Rare crew that use exploits.

    Quickswapping was an exploit, as confirmed by Rare. This did not stop it becoming easily the most widespread exploit since Sword Lunging. Literally every PvP streamer including Partners made use of it. Rare endorsed The Notorious Arena League and Sea of Champions, two organisations dedicated to high level Arena Gameplay; which all featured use of Quickswapping as well as other exploits. Rare endorsed them by providing them unique and exclusive sails handed out only to the winners (those best at using exploits).

    Endorsing Creators by involving them in the SoT Partner program gives that player the Rare seal of approval in their actions. If their actions become a concern they should as you say have their partnership status removed, however if literally all SoT Partners, a good chunk of the playerbase, and literal Rare staff themselves use them; how do you respond to it. You cant just drop all of your partners and punish that many players. So they didn't, they left it in game for years even after the first time they nerfed it, and willingly allowed it to get that big.

    Quickswap is obviously not an exploit to the extent of the Burning Blade; The simple point I am making is that in Rare's own words (twitter and discord post) the use of exploits breaks their Code of Conduct. The willy nilly decisions Rare make to action one, ban the other, roll back gold for another, adopt another as a new mechanic, etc, is something we just cannot predict.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    Endorsing Creators by involving them in the SoT Partner program gives that player the Rare seal of approval in their actions. If their actions become a concern they should as you say have their partnership status removed, however if literally all SoT Partners, a good chunk of the playerbase, and literal Rare staff themselves use them; how do you respond to it. You cant just drop all of your partners and punish that many players. So they didn't, they left it in game for years even after the first time they nerfed it, and willingly allowed it to get that big.

    I love me some criticism about the effect of influence but it's more complicated than this.

    Being involved in content creation is something SoT has to do in this space, no way around it other than spending a lot more money and a lot more money either means a lot more cost for the consumer or a lot shorter lifespan for the game.

    This then brings us to popularity. They gotta pick people with some numbers for it to be worth their time. The pool is what viewers decide it is. People watch a bunch of stuff that is in no way good for the environment and people watch some pretty chill stuff. The people are essentially choosing who Rare gets to pick from.

    They have some partners that are involved in some nonsense and they have some partners that are pretty chill and not having a negative impact with their influence.

    The way for players to contribute is to build up channels that prioritize ethical play/streaming/conduct so that Rare has some more to choose from.

    They for sure would like to bring people on board that are putting good vibes out there and ethical play if the channel is in a situation where it makes sense as a business.

    There have been and are a lot of super cool hobby streamers with smaller channels that would do great as partners if they had the viewer support.

  • @wolfmanbush

    This then brings us to popularity. They gotta pick people with some numbers for it to be worth their time. The pool is what viewers decide it is. People watch a bunch of stuff that is in no way good for the environment and people watch some pretty chill stuff. The people are essentially choosing who Rare gets to pick from.

    If the people that Rare are forced to pick from (the ones with the numbers to make it worth their time) are performing actions in violation of Code of Conduct that would get regular players punished, I don't think ''they have to pick them'' is justification for those actions being done. Not that I'm saying you're saying that. This would essentially mean that Partners do not have to abide by the same rules that regular players do. We have seen many cases of that in the past of Partners doing or saying things that regular players cannot, so there definitely might be some truth to that.

    The way for players to contribute is to build up channels that prioritize ethical play/streaming/conduct so that Rare has some more to choose from.

    Viewers will watch what they deem entertaining as such those they find entertaining will rise. This often results in a particular playstyle being effective as a Streamer; that being that of very high end skill and experience. Especially in such a big and open game like SoT, this calls for a great understanding of the game in all facets and unfortunately that also includes Exploits. Not only because use of them can improve your own performance, but unfortunately due to how widespread they are, you will often have to face people using exploits, and not using them yourself will put you at a disadvantage. If you re consistently at a disadvantage you won't be winning as much as you could be, and Viewers are often attracted to the consistent winners. There are so many exploits that vary from just being a little time save, makes something a little more tolerable, or insanely overpowered. This wouldn't be an issue of Exploits got removed quicker as it would be a matter of a strong thing being found, it becomes meta for a week while it exists, then its removed and things go back to normal. But most of the exploits stay in game for months or even years, resulting in them finding a solid spot in the high end meta as a must use. This can be things such as ladder launching, map/rod launching, silent boarding, quickswapping, quickscoping, reload cancelling, x bucketing, any many more. An example I can think of of a very low impacting exploit is that when you break your legs you can pull out a Compass and look at it, you can now jump despite having a broken leg, while jumping you are also able to sprint. It mitigates the annoyance of having the broken leg and is something a lot of people use that know about it, because its not overpowered or anything its just a little Quality of Life. This has existed I'm pretty sure since launch and despite seeing frequent use it's never been on the table for removal.

    The SoT News that released today stated that over 20,000 players over the course of a few days (using Rare's words as to how long it was up for) made use of the Burning Blade Exploit, and countless more profited by Stealing Exploited Swords without actually doing it themselves. 20,000 players is literally double the entire steam playerbase. Steamcharts shows the average daily players for last month was 10,183 players with the prior month being 11,823 players. Even if Steam is just a mere 10% of the total active playerbase (which is just a guess) that means roughly 20% of players across all platforms made use of that exploit over the course of a few days, literally 1/5 people. This is how widespread exploits in Sea of Thieves can get. Obviously this is a very specific case as its the most insane money exploit we have ever seen, but this shows the willingness of people, pirates rather; to break the rules for their own benefit.

    But if Rare are talking about violating their Code of Conduct, that still technically falls under it. So for Rare to be all like how dare you break the CoC despite endorsing players that also do so (especially as Quickswap is a PvP exploit) it just reads incredibly inconsistent and pretty hypocritical. Again I know its anecdotal but I have fought Rare Crew in game that Quickswapped. That is a Rare developer abusing an exploit in order to gain an unfair advantage in order to beat another player, breaking their own Code of Conduct. Obviously one Employee doing it is not representative of the Company as a whole, I just personally found it telling just how widespread and commonly accepted it was.

    They for sure would like to bring people on board that are putting good vibes out there and ethical play if the channel is in a situation where it makes sense as a business. There have been and are a lot of super cool hobby streamers with smaller channels that would do great as partners if they had the viewer support.

    As you say; Entertainment is a Business. Content Creation as well as Game Development. All streamers come from nothing and just get lucky and you could say the wrong people got lucky. I think if its true that there were partnered Streamers showing off Burning Blade exploits and therefore encouraging their Viewers to do it (as you would imagine a Rare approved Streamer doing something would be okay for you to also do) then its a huge red flag in terms of how Rare monitor their Partners. Do they just not monitor their activity and make sure they continue to be the kind of person they want Championing their band as an Ambassador? One I know of is Phuzzy who has made videos on Season 12 Voyage Exploits including ones that got patched and ones that remain possible. The grey area on which of those voyage exploits are considered unfair and which are considered just smart use of the way the voyage system works is something nobody really understands. Rare have no simple yes or no list of what is or isn't acceptable behaviour. In terms of those voyage 'exploits' almost all of them did not abuse a glitch, they simply made use of an unintended way to manipulate how voyages cycle. For example the Cursed Chest exploit where if you had your ship parked at Port Merrick or Crescent isle, the first x would always be on Rapier Cay. This meant you could have a teammate sit on Rapier cay while the rest of the crew remained on the ship at Port Merrick they could spam start and cancel the voyage while Rapier Cay guy dug the first x every time. This was not a bug, there was not anything intended to prevent it happening, Rare just did not foresee it being able to be used like of. Of course Rare are perfectly within their right to alter the mechanic to not allow for it, but to say its wrong to do and perhaps even punish for it just seems incredibly in violation of their Tools not Rule policy.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    The SoT News that released today stated that over 20,000 players over the course of a few days (using Rare's words as to how long it was up for) made use of the Burning Blade Exploit, and countless more profited by Stealing Exploited Swords without actually doing it themselves. 20,000 players is literally double the entire steam playerbase. Steamcharts shows the average daily players for last month was 10,183 players with the prior month being 11,823 players. Even if Steam is just a mere 10% of the total active playerbase (which is just a guess) that means roughly 20% of players across all platforms made use of that exploit over the course of a few days, literally 1/5 people. This is how widespread exploits in Sea of Thieves can get. Obviously this is a very specific case as its the most insane money exploit we have ever seen, but this shows the willingness of people, pirates rather; to break the rules for their own benefit.

    Steamcharts are concurrent numbers, not total numbers, so the numbers shown there are not the total amount of players that play in a single day.

  • @d3adst1ck

    Steamcharts are concurrent numbers, not total numbers, so the numbers shown there are not the total amount of players that play in a single day.

    ah right so it means the average daily peak of a given month not the average amount of daily players, got it. Then that statistic can be disregard in my post, thanks for the clarification on that.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @d3adst1ck

    Steamcharts are concurrent numbers, not total numbers, so the numbers shown there are not the total amount of players that play in a single day.

    ah right so it means the average daily peak of a given month not the average amount of daily players, got it. Then that statistic can be disregard in my post, thanks for the clarification on that.

    The 20k also includes those who didn't cheat, but profitted due to turning in a sword by a crew that did- as they said "Players who stole from ships with a disproportionate Ritual value may also be impacted."

    As for numbers of total players, we do not know; we do know that in the previous month there were 470k people who raised Gold Hoarder emissary (about 400k raised Reaper emissary). If we use those numbers, the 20k is at most 4.3% cheaters. A lot less than the 20% you guessed.

  • @lem0n-curry

    470k people who raised Gold Hoarder emissary (about 400k raised Reaper emissary).

    Where is that stat from? likewise wouldn't that include duplicates? like if I raise 10 times it'll count 10 instead of just 1 as an individual player?

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @lem0n-curry

    470k people who raised Gold Hoarder emissary (about 400k raised Reaper emissary).

    Where is that stat from? likewise wouldn't that include duplicates? like if I raise 10 times it'll count 10 instead of just 1 as an individual player?

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/leaderboards/GoldHoarders/global click on "Previous" to show stats from July.

    The bottom of the second tier has number 235,444, double that (each tier has the (roughly) same number of people), so the number of people who have raised Gold Hoarder emissary in July (and turned in something) would be 270,888; I rounded it down as the figure we compare it to isn't exact either (I doubt there were exactly 20,000 people exploiting / turning in exploited swords).

  • @lem0n-curry

    The bottom of the second tier has number 235,444, double that (each tier has the (roughly) same number of people), so the number of people who have raised Gold Hoarder emissary in July (and turned in something) would be 270,888; I rounded it down as the figure we compare it to isn't exact either (I doubt there were exactly 20,000 people exploiting / turning in exploited swords).

    Wow yea that's actually a pretty good way to determine a rough playcount, good eye for that. I'll definitely look for something like that in the future when I need to find that statistic myself. Obviously that also includes people that return for a single session and then drop the game again, but its still definitely better than any other form of playcount number I can think of.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @lem0n-curry

    The bottom of the second tier has number 235,444, double that (each tier has the (roughly) same number of people), so the number of people who have raised Gold Hoarder emissary in July (and turned in something) would be 270,888; I rounded it down as the figure we compare it to isn't exact either (I doubt there were exactly 20,000 people exploiting / turning in exploited swords).

    Wow yea that's actually a pretty good way to determine a rough playcount, good eye for that. I'll definitely look for something like that in the future when I need to find that statistic myself. Obviously that also includes people that return for a single session and then drop the game again, but its still definitely better than any other form of playcount number I can think of.

    New players don't have the ability to raise an emissary 😁 (-- missd that you talked about returning players, not new players).

    It can be used as a minimum, as there are plenty of crews that no longer bother with Gold Hoarder emissary as the rewards have stopped and probbaly are more interested in raising Guild - or now with the Burning Blade raising Reaper or Athena instead.

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