Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss

  • We all know how voyages work. Buy one from a trading company of choice, propose it on the voyage/captain's table, vote on it and bam, voyage. As a maxed out Pirate Legend, most of the voyages I can purchase cost around or above 250 gold. Selling a seafarer's chest will return the amount of money I spent on a voyage really easily.

    Why do I mention this? Sea of Thieves allows its users to be able to pick things up and put them down like a toddler in day care, there's nothing wrong with this design ideally. You either do a voyage or you don't; you finish a fort or you don't; you finish a tall tale or you don't (and have a checkpoint for reduced headaches in the future). The issue comes down to commitment and the worth of a proposed voyage.

    A lv 50+ Gold Hoarder voyage will get you far more gold than you spent purchasing the quest by an extremely large sum over 4 times it's amount. If I was getting hounded by an enemy ship and felt like not committing to the voyage during my session, I can just... not do it, there's no punishment to tackling a voyage and refusing to complete it other than missing out on a very measly sum of gold, not just in voyage cost, but in voyage profits as well.

    Voyages are not worth anything on the Sea of Thieves, and any player paranoid, bored, or short for time can just vote to cancel a voyage (assuming the crew has immediate access to their vessel) or "Leave Game" at any point. This makes it particularly difficult for tougher pirates to successfully steal loot from another crew's voyage, most infamously, with the base Athena's Fortune voyage and it's ashen counterpart. A player in imminent danger can just log off before finishing the voyage or even getting to the dig up of the coveted Chest of Legends. Before Fort of the Damned and Fort of Fortune, Legendary Thief was a title that had a true rite of passage due to the insane difficulty of stealing a Chest of Legends through sneak plays or well executed ambushes.

    Where is my point with all of this? Simple. Voyages are worth nothing and don't punish the voyage owner for unsuccessfully completing the voyage and selling the loot from said voyage. Being down 250 gold is merely pocket change in comparison to tougher pirates who happily spend over 20k gold having barely enough supplies to steal a world event from an over-prepared Grade V Reaper. Why have the prices of the voyages always stayed this low? This allows for players to easily purchase voyages when they have nothing better to do... except that's exactly what the Messages in a Bottle/Tattered Parchements are meant to do.

    Voyages need to have worth in them similar to the supplies and commodities you can buy from the Merchant Alliance. This way, pirates need to make the conscious decision to do a certain type of voyage as if they do not fulfill it, they will lose a meaningful amount of gold doing so, and on top of that, make fights, encounters, and decisions much more meaningful to the pirate to help influence the story. "Should these rusty sea dogs refuse to commit to digging up a Chest of Legends at the cost of the 15k gold they spent for the voyage because they're being chased by tougher than average pirates? Maybe they will fight for the loot they dared to put on board to make at least double of what they spent, maybe they will cower and evade combat for as long as they can, or until they ultimately surrender their worth to the Devil's Shroud, or their predating chaser."

    Players genuinely don't care about voyages enough, and I feel that giving them a price to not only work for, but to also risk will make voyages (regardless of their fun factor) much more of a conscious decision to perform, at least for Pirate Legends, seeing that there was expectation for Veterans to have over 77 million gold after potentially 3 years or less of overall participation time. Surely they have a lot more gold to spend, so make 'em spend it on a voyage they want to do, as it worked relatively well for Athena's Run of Thieves' Haven, as Doubloons are tougher to come by.

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  • I definitely don't think all Voyages should be in the 1000s of Gold range. The low-cost "here's a guarentee you will find something to do, get out there" is a valuable and important part of the game IMO. It's true that Messages in a Bottle/Torn Parchment can be used for the same purpose, but they give you zero control over what quest you recieve, when you recieve them, and don't include quests like Vaults or etc. They aren't a valid replacement for current low investment Voyages.

    I'm not against the idea of specific special Voyages like you describe though, where the stakes and rewards are raised dramatically. IMO this might work well being tied to the Emissary system and could give Gold Hoarders/Order of Souls Emissaries an idea distinguishing them, like what Merchant Alliance Emissaries have. My only concern is having quests with say a 15,000 gold buy in, you're gonna need a LOT of loot hauling in order to justify that investment.

  • As it stands, as a maxed out player, I could buy 2 regular Gold Hoarder voyages...one might be a single chapter with 2 maps resulting in a handful of chests...the other voyage might be 3+ chapters with 3+ maps each resulting in 20+ chests...yet both of those voyages cost the same 250 gold.

    If they allowed you to "pick your difficulty" people would cheese the voyage completion commendations, so that can't be a suggestion.

    So, the only way they could implement more expensive voyages would be if they either A) implemented new voyage types that were specifically "high risk high reward."...or B) made voyage difficulty/length linear as you level up with each faction instead of having it RNG like it is.

    I'm not opposed to either, though I'd rather it be option A. The RNG of regular voyages is what makes those voyage completion commendations so interesting...and not so daunting...if after maybe level 50, your voyages we're always going to be multi-chapter, 2+ hour voyage, I would hate that.

    Although, maybe that would entice more people to do World Events since the ROI would theoretically be better than doing a 2+hour voyage that cost thousands to purchase.

  • The more I think about it, the more of a rework voyages genuinely need. The RNG formula seems nice, but for buying a voyage from a trading company? That just doesn't seem fair in decision making.

    A way I would re-adjust voyages are via this: Upon reaching Reputation 50 in a trading company (or even Reputation 10 in Athena's Fortune) Pirates can have an expanded menu from the representatives

    Voyages will be sorted and priced by Voyage Type and Voyage length:

    • Tier III: 10k-20k gold for Voyages with 3+ chapters (Newer voyages apply here)

    • Tier II: 5k-10k gold for Voyages with 2-3 chapters (Newer voyages apply here, but with less reward than before)

    • Tier I: 1k-5k gold for Voyages with 1-2 chapters (Basic voyages only)

    Say you want to do a quick GH vault voyage, you purchase the Tier II voyage so you only need to find 3 map parchments instead of the usual 5, however, this comes in cost of the reward, you will get a silver or stone key for your efforts. The voyage is quicker, but you get less rewards for it, and if you don't do it after you propose and vote on it, you went and forfeit 5k-10k gold. You have more control over what voyage you want to do, with properly adjusted prices that still pinch your wallet should you have second judgements or fail.

    Like I said before, if I wanted something to do I could go find a Message in a Bottle/Tattered Parchment in a barrel that gives me something random to do, or I could go do a world event, loot a shrine/treasury, complete a tall tale, or just you know: plunder someone else's loot to get more gold. Allowing better options allows there to be proper risk and reward to the pirates that sail the open seas, regardless of activity.

  • In my view voyages are just a stepping stone

    something for people to gain experience with during a more linear session

    like training wheels on the bike or taking care of a baby bird. Once they get some experience and abilities it's time to let 'em go find something more

  • @wolfmanbush how could you possibly say that? outside of reapers its the most effecient way to level up your emissary lol the i love the idea of picking your voyage type to get more rewards… would happily invest more..the problem this game as is its to catered to theft so therefore it hurts the gameplay i.e. world events; fewer and fewer people are doing them becauss they dont want a multi hr battle with the event plus other pirates trying to steal….especially fof…i rarely see anyone attempting it anymore…takes way to long on top of battling ship after ship trying to steal…the other issue is emissary…if the flags had 0 value itself and lvl 5 reapers couldnt see you then way more people would run emissary…but rare decided hey make the flags valuable plus a commedation for flags turned in plus lvl 5. reapers can see you…it incentifys more stealing…i understand this is the idea of the game but it doesnt work…what i see is most if not avoid each other period outside of a reaper of course

  • @madfrito99 said in Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss:

    @wolfmanbush how could you possibly say that? outside of reapers its the most effecient way to level up your emissary lol the i love the idea of picking your voyage type to get more rewards… would happily invest more..the problem this game as is its to catered to theft so therefore it hurts the gameplay i.e. world events; fewer and fewer people are doing them becauss they dont want a multi hr battle with the event plus other pirates trying to steal….especially fof…i rarely see anyone attempting it anymore…takes way to long on top of battling ship after ship trying to steal…the other issue is emissary…if the flags had 0 value itself and lvl 5 reapers couldnt see you then way more people would run emissary…but rare decided hey make the flags valuable plus a commedation for flags turned in plus lvl 5. reapers can see you…it incentifys more stealing…i understand this is the idea of the game but it doesnt work…what i see is most if not avoid each other period outside of a reaper of course

    for pure efficiency for most crews that don't want to take extra risks the most efficient session is typically hunting skelly ships and megs and hitting water loot and shipwreck loot

    this is for a few reasons

    1. more consistent high quality loot
    2. less risky with better consistent loot. Vaults, shipwreck voyages, etc are all fine but for many they are very risky because of the lack of experience and because sitting still is dangerous for most crews.
    3. doesn't restrict you to one area or specific spots you can go across the map if necessary
    4. tuckers become a non issue
    5. less stressful. "are they gonna ambush me" isn't as much of a thing
  • @wolfmanbush will have to disagree with first statement…you easily get better loot with vaults and sunken kingdoms than skeleton ships

  • @madfrito99 said in Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss:

    @wolfmanbush will have to disagree with first statement…you easily get better loot with vaults and sunken kingdoms than skeleton ships

    consistency is the key in pve.

    If you do a vault it's gonna take you time to go through that process and you're only going to get a tribute chest and some captain's chest and a bunch of loot that isn't great for time/price to haul it back and forth

    If you pull a krakens fall key it'll take longer

    you'll also be at significant risk from sitting still and the time it takes to shuffle loot

    All my method has to do is pull in a cry chest or a grog chest or a rage chest to cancel out the tribute chest

    my method brings in a lot of gems which cancels out the captain's chests and on top of that there will be a stronghold chest or two from a meg and plenty of mid range loot for the faction

    the main point though is the consistency and the risk.
    vault people get sunk a lot, voyage people get sunk a lot. people know what they are doing and it's an easy target

    my method people can free roam, there is limited sitting duck moments, and the shuffling loot is very minimal

    less risk, less losses, more efficient progress towards goals

    doesn't mean people shouldn't do voyages because doing what people enjoy is important too but if what they enjoy is gold and losing less what I described above is a very effective way to go about that

  • @wolfmanbush im going to use your line “there is no data to suggest this”. lol

  • @wolfmanbush it really depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. Doing voyages is beneficial for the three main factions and Athena. While you most likely would put a voyage on for reapers at all.

  • @madfrito99 said in Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss:

    @wolfmanbush im going to use your line “there is no data to suggest this”. lol

    The reason I go on and on like I do is because I don't like to see pvers doing their own thing sink and lose loot.

    I think they consented to the dangers but it's not something I enjoy doing or seeing others do.

    I'm not talking about the people that come on the forums and post on twitter trying to change the foundation of the game I'm talking about people that just wanna have some fun and turn in some loot and snag some cosmetics and they don't complain about it but they haven't quite gained the experience yet to get out of sitting duck mode.

    I want to see those people sink less and implement useful strategy so they can expand on how they enjoy playing to where they can avoid pvp issues more if they want less pvp and avoid losing more if they want to lose less.

  • @ninja-naranja said in Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss:

    @wolfmanbush it really depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. Doing voyages is beneficial for the three main factions and Athena. While you most likely would put a voyage on for reapers at all.

    imo athena emissary is in such a terribly slow state I would just try to find a decent group of folks on a discord or forums or something and farm FoF and just take the loses with the wins

    typically I wouldn't suggest that but athena is terrible for efficiency and now that they have an event with piles of athena loot I'd just risk it. Even losing a fof feels better than the alternative imo

  • @wolfmanbush As someone who has recently spent days speed running Ashen Athena Voyages, I totally agree. Athena Voyages are the definition of high risk low reward in this game. If you didn't have to worry about some sweat lords hopping to find you, it wouldn't be so bad. And running Athena without emissary is the most effective waste of time in this game.

  • @wolfmanbush oh yeah definitely. Athena desperately needs some love. It’s the hardest, slowest and most boring faction to rank up right now. Heck I’d take fishing over doing Athena’s because at least those I can consistently do by myself.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss:

    In my view voyages are just a stepping stone

    something for people to gain experience with during a more linear session

    like training wheels on the bike or taking care of a baby bird. Once they get some experience and abilities it's time to let 'em go find something more

    I can understand this perspective, however as a person that's experienced the highs and lows of tackling voyages, an advanced player would have no reason to do a voyage.

    Stepping stone or not, it's an activity one can do, and one that shouldn't be slept upon just because there's much more to do out there. Ultimately the goal of addressing this issue with voyages was to tackle a low risk, low reward activity that is frustratingly boring for players to finish, and frustratingly difficult to steal (since I mentioned earlier, a crew can just Leave Game and the voyage is not worth stealing anymore).

    Improving voyages at the very least can inspire tougher and advanced pirates to not despise them because there's more out there.

  • @nex-stargaze said in Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss:

    @wolfmanbush said in Voyages: Their net worth, and net loss:

    In my view voyages are just a stepping stone

    something for people to gain experience with during a more linear session

    like training wheels on the bike or taking care of a baby bird. Once they get some experience and abilities it's time to let 'em go find something more

    I can understand this perspective, however as a person that's experienced the highs and lows of tackling voyages, an advanced player would have no reason to do a voyage.

    Stepping stone or not, it's an activity one can do, and one that shouldn't be slept upon just because there's much more to do out there. Ultimately the goal of addressing this issue with voyages was to tackle a low risk, low reward activity that is frustratingly boring for players to finish, and frustratingly difficult to steal (since I mentioned earlier, a crew can just Leave Game and the voyage is not worth stealing anymore).

    Improving voyages at the very least can inspire tougher and advanced pirates to not despise them because there's more out there.

    the game needs low risk low reward options just like it needs reapers in a shared environment

    they could pretty easily change this by improving athena and putting it in between where it began as when emissaries were released and where it is now

    if they sped up athena emissary and increased athena loot rng (even if just the cups and crates) to where athena 5 was realistic on organic servers and the emissary quest was more often done on organic servers everyone wins and it still allows players their low risk low reward options with other voyages

    getting 5 athena flags and loot circulating would massively improve an organic session experience. Not just from Fof but bring back adventurers into athena.

    this is a session based game and athena isn't a realistic session based pursuit as far as emissary and loot goes for voyages

    more appealing gets more average players moving athena loot around and pvpers have more to chase around organically instead of hopping all the time or having others hop for them all the time

    and increase the gold value. Why in the world Athena items have such low value compared to other items I do not understand.

    we already kinda have the foundation for what you want it's just significantly weakened by a slow leveling emissary, poor rng, and low sell prices. Bump those up and get more activity all around with better loot hauls and better loot steals

    the "athena should be tough and a serious grind" thing doesn't mean you kill the faction with terrible risk/reward balance that makes it very unappealing and not even realistic for most people.

    It's a heck of a lot easier and actually safer to roll the dice on a fof and maybe get out of there with a 5 flag in 30-45 minutes and some nice athena loot than it is to float around for hours doing anything and everything to barely make it to grade 4 depending on rng. Need to bring the adventure and excitement back to athena and not just stick it between absolutely terrible high risk grind style and very high risk high possibility of pvp style

    I also find people and often times kids getting their athenas taken after hours of that grind to be unnecessary and too extreme. Not just because they are slow at it but because these grinds are not realistic for a session. It's one thing to say don't stack and sell your loot (which is correct) and another to say go do this ridiculous grind for one or a few items and even if you do it somewhat competently you're gonna get it stolen right at the end. Nothing about that adds up to me and I don't see it as healthy for the organic server experience at all. The complete lack of athena activity going on around these servers shows that.

  • yea one of rares bright ideas to add overly grinding things in a pvp server…literally makes zero sense…athena and reaper(once you hit lvl 60) are the worst for leveling up emissary. athena voyages are absolutely pointless and a waste of time because you barely get any athena loot…sad thing is they know these things and do nothing #RAREDOESN’TCARE

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