Remove/reset flag when entering portal

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @frogfish12 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    Reaper 5 doesn't guarantee prey but getting grade 5 of the other faction does guarantee you loot through a voyage, which is the point of those companies.

    You can raise reaper and do a voyage of other company as reaper and get more gold than an emissary of their own company would.

    With Reaper 5 Power you're supposed to get the loot via fighting Emissaries which is why you're shown them.

    That is correct, but if emissaries in your server outplay you by lowering their flag before you make it to level 5 why should the game FEED YOU prey? You can hunt emissaries without level 5. Always I raise reaper I sail around vaults and other areas where emissaries sail to try and find them. I am always using the spyglass to spot ships. You can see the emissary flag from any distance you can see the ship, so you can outplay them as well.

    I do however would love some improvements to reapers, but free for all serverhopping where you keep your lvl 5 flag and emissaries cant run away with it because they lose their loot is not a solution.

    In another post I suggested reaper voyages

    • Kill X online crew. You get hints about where they have been spotted, first time you kill any of them they spawn a "Reaper bounty" red skull. You have to deliver them all to complete the voyage.
    • Sink any 1 player ship and bring 5 pieces of loot to the reaper from their ship

    Stuff like that.

  • Frogfish12
    Lord
    Insider

    @kakaroto9766 I did reply to that whole 'bounty hunter' concept in the post you wrote that

  • MisereNZ
    Captain
    Insider

    @kakaroto9766
    You beat me to it.

    I think fuzzy hit the nail on the head. His suggestion was just that it is a quest that costs 15k. I think it needs to add a couple more things. I think that you should come back to the same server when using the portal via the tall tail.
    Hopping should just be a reaper five ability via a quest from reapers hideout (like fussy said) but there should be a cooldown as well (20 min?) but this is reset a soon as they an emissary flag.

  • Panguru3694
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    Many many thinks about this where already told here.
    Tunnels of the Damned Migration
    Text verlinken

    It is intended in the first place. Good read.

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @miserenz said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @kakaroto9766

    I think that you should come back to the same server when using the portal via the tall tail.

    Well this poses a number of issues. Server might no longer exist if it was dropped or merged, server might be full, or there might be nearby ships to the portal which wouldnt be great for them.

    I am actually not sure if portal checks for ship distance when returning you to a server. It probably should. I serverhopped yesterday and spawned very close to a ship. They were selling in the outpost in front of the portal, so I went and sank them. Kinda trash that a ship can just POOOOF so close to you when you might have just checked the map and all the horizon with spy glass.

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @panguru3694 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    Many many thinks about this where already told here.
    Tunnels of the Damned Migration
    Text verlinken

    It is intended in the first place. Good read.

    I am aware it is intended. I am also aware they said they are reviewing the experience, opinions and functionality, hence this post.

    I am not against server hopping using portals.

    I am against removing loot from the player's ship but not the flag. That benefits reapers considerably more than any other faction.

    A gold hoarder/orderofsouls/merchant has 0 reason to server hop unless he is being chased. And in 90% of the situations where he is being chased he will have loot on him, so portal is not an option.

    "Just sell quickly and then portal hop" If you have 2 skulls then yeah you can "sell quickly" drive by the outpost, drop 2 people and sell. But then the ship is too far to vote for the talltale so you have to do another drive by.

    If you have 10+ pieces of loot there's no "selling quickly"

  • MisereNZ
    Captain
    Insider

    @kakaroto9766

    Those are very good points.

    My fix would be to either:

    Make doing the tall tale a 20min commitment. I do not like that option.

    OR

    Leave the players spot on the server reserved for them for 20min. As far as the server is concerned they are still playing unless they log out. So if a merge occurs then they can still join the merged server. Exceptions would be if all the other players quit.

    Coming back to the server should always be via the portal that is the most distant to the nearest player. This would include the reapers level 5 ability. It would not be fair for any ship to portal in let alone a reaper level 5 ship right next to an outpost just as you are starting to shift all your loot from the dock to the sell points.

    If Rare makes it a level five quest then it naturaly has a cool down:
    Reaper hits L5, sells all loot at hide out.
    Sees no ships on map so buys 20k new worlds quest.
    Votes and sails to nearest portal and gets transported to new server. Spawns in and sees no emssary on map so has to sail to reapers hideout again. Buy another quest, sail back to portal.

    This system would take both time and gold AND not spawn a level five reaper on top of any ships. Rare should also consider giving a world cue that a reaper has either made level 5 or used a portal to spawn in.

  • Frogfish12
    Lord
    Insider

    One thing I would note is that the quest should be hard due to requirements, not due to price. Server hoppers like this usually have more money then they'll ever spend and won't care about spending 20k, same way that some Reapers will literally buy full supplies at an outpost to go after someone they know has 0 loot. All that 20k does means that low level (not grade) reapers will have a harder time, but these aren't the reapers who cause the issue as they aren't the ones who are hopping from server to server completely dominating. Also 20k spread over lets say a Galleon is an average of 5k per person. If each crew member takes turns buying the portal voyage then its only 20k per 4 servers while all get benefit.

    A better way to limit it would rather be to cap out One voyage per level 5, meaning you get to check one more server, and that's it. However this still may not be enough as you can just check the map on new server for where people are, then lower and raise back to level 1, work it back up, then you can get another portal voyage. Or even easier, you might keep level 5, go kill an emissary who turns out had a bunch of loot, then just sail to an outpost, lower 5 and raise 1, then go back and pick it all up back to level 5, meaning you were able to keep your Emissary Power but are now able to buy a new voyage.

    Possible Fixes-

    • Once you Go through a Reapers Portal Voyage, you're Committed, You CANNOT Lower your Emissary Flag. This could still potentially be bypassed as Crews would just Put their supplies in a storage crate, hide it on reapers, then scuttle themselves, come back and Raise.

    • Once you go through a Reapers Portal Voyage, you completely lose your Emissary Flag, this means on this new server you aren't able to use your Emissary Power to see if the server is active. Like everyone else, you have to 'start again' on this new lobby (still keeping your supplies) and work your flag back up in order to regain that power. This means that you won't be able to go into a server, check the map, see no emissaries, and do a 180 and go back through the portal. Not only can they not go back through multiple times, but they also cant see if the server is populated.

    • You can only use the Reapers Portal Voyage Once per Crew. Not once per Grade 5 or Once Per Sink, Just once per crew. Once that voyage has been used, nobody who is on or joins into that ship can buy another, they need to disconnect and start a new crew. (Probably the best choice)

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @frogfish12 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    lower 5 and raise 1, then go back and pick it all up back to level 5, meaning you were able to keep your Emissary Power but are now able to buy a new voyage.

    Well that is not an issue. Players can just leave the game and join another server, thats the same as what you describe.

    In this case 1 person would stay with the galley looking for prey, while the other 3 would disconnect, go to another server, check emissary tables/map, and disconnect again until they find a server worth sailing.

    If you ask me this kind of serverhopping should also be stopped, simply by reconnecting you to the same server you just were if you leave a server and connect again soon after.

    • Once you go through a Reapers Portal Voyage, you completely lose your Emissary Flag,

    I think something like this is a good idea, either thorough current portal server hop or reapers voyage.
    OR if they dont want to punish them as much, it could halve the current level of the flag.

    That way reapers still have to work and find prey in the new server, rather than abusing serverhopping to fully survey 2-10 servers in a short period of time.

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @mintharp184509 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    All they have to do to fix reapers is make them not appear on the map table until they hit grade v and voila emissaries will not immediately flee the server.

    I am a friendly player, when I am merchant/other I always approach talking and trying to make alliances, but when I am reaper I approach with cannonfire. I like people KNOWING what I am coming for, so I dont feel guilty for sinking someone who barely shot back.

    If they could see me coming for 5 minutes ahead of time in the map and do not react its fully on them.

    Reaper is a way of saying "I want pvp". I think showing you in the map is great.

    It also balances a bit the fact that you get level from almost any loot, and you can sell any loot with emissary bonus.

    Portal hopping and retaining emissary grade should be removed and I know this is controversial but IMO I would reset supplies to default if a crew chooses to cancel the tall tale.

    Well the issue is that people currently hop in other ways (disconnecting, and connecting). And I think rare wants to bring features in to the game to make it a mechanic. I think the overall solution for this is:

    • Remove the ability for players to serverhop outside the game. If you leave a server/match, and you rejoin shortly, you will be sent to the same server you just were.
    • Keep portal hopping, but do something about lvl 5 reapers hopping all over the place (remove flag, reduce level of the flag, or other things)

    I am not sure supplies is such a bad thing to keep, but perhaps it is...I think any kind of hopping is bullcrap. It just allows heavy PVP players to abuse weaker players over and over again, and its not organic gameplay at all. If you want to hunt people hunt who is in your server. If no one has emissary flags look for them sailing. Why do we need to allow reapers to find/get juicy/easy prey by server hopping?

  • DadWhiteRice
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @burnbacon Did you read his post? He is 100% correct.

    I use portal hopping but it is unfair. The PVE factions will lose the treasure on board. Using the portal to escape is pointless because you cannot keep treasure. The reaper should be reset to level 2-3 that way a reaper cannot join a server, see no one, and hop again within 5 minutes. The benefits to portal is 100% reaper. I love playing reaper and I portal hop but I know that it is unfair to jump into a server automatically level 5

  • DrizKillz
    Commander
    Insider

    Either EVERYTHING goes through the portal and leaves a copy, so there's the loot you may or may not have been chasing, or NOTHING worth gold goes through - which is the way it should be. End of Story. If a reaper goes through with a flag, that server isn't dead otherwise they'd have migrated, and someone could be hunting that flag. Your argument is a copy is left behind. Fine. Leave a copy of loot too. If you don't like that, then nothing goes through the stupid thing that shouldn't be in the game to benefit a single faction to begin with.

  • korpp1s
    Captain
    Insider

    @d3adst1ck said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    The way the Reaper is set up to work is broken in the first place. Being visible and being able to see every other emissary at Grade 5 is the reason that servers empty out. If that didn't happen, no one would care about using the portals and there would be less reason to use them as a Reaper.

    Reaper's Bones needs to be reworked to prevent other ships from not flying flags or just leaving the server. They have a disproportionate advantage to using the portals compared to the other trading companies which should be fixed if they aren't going to do anything about the faction itself, but that isn't fixing the root issue.

    100% this. Why can't they just be treated like other emissaries and be invisible on map, also not able to see anyone else on the map either? They already get by far the best bonus for loot and it's all they need.

    Yesterday we did server hopping with L5 flag and every time we ended up on new server it died instantly. There was 3 emissaries when we landed and by the time we got to the first, other two had ran to lower the flag. Hopped again and deja vu.

  • Panguru3694
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @korpp1s

    This is, what i expirienced from the other side. As Merchand it is anoying to permanently look at the tablemap, but if a R5 appears, we dont fight it.
    We sell and go.
    And we use the portal to keep the flag.

    There is simply nothing to win but everything to lose.

    And i dont think its a Problem with the hopping mechanik. It needs tweaks like one central portal and should cost money.

    But as you come on a server now and Everyone knows you have no loot and are probably expirienced fighters everybody who know of portal hopping doesnt habe interesst in you.

  • Frogfish12
    Lord
    Insider

    @kakaroto9766 Half the Level would be the most Beneficial thing you could do to them (which is bad). If you can only buy a Voyage once per level 5, and you put them to level 2.5, they barely need to do anything to get that Voyage back.

    Like it would be more useful for the Reaper to be set to 2.5 rather than remain at 5

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @frogfish12 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @kakaroto9766 Half the Level would be the most Beneficial thing you could do to them (which is bad). If you can only buy a Voyage once per level 5, and you put them to level 2.5, they barely need to do anything to get that Voyage back.

    Like it would be more useful for the Reaper to be set to 2.5 rather than remain at 5

    Well my idea of resetting/removing/reducing level the flag is on its own, without reaper voyages to migrate server.

    So you can serverhop using portals, but you lose your ability to immediately see all emissaries on as many servers as you want to hop to.

    Serverhopping is not much of a problem if you have to sail around and do stuff in the server, rather than hopping over and over again until you find the prey you want

  • Frogfish12
    Lord
    Insider

    @kakaroto9766 My Question would then be if that's just a Blanket 2.5 across all factions. The problem right now being that Reapers get punished much less than the other Emissaries. If it lowered everyone's grade then it would still be Punishing Other Emissaries more as its harder to level them back up and you lose any voyage you're on, and you cant go in with loot.

  • Panguru3694
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @frogfish12 sagte in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @kakaroto9766 My Question would then be if that's just a Blanket 2.5 across all factions. The problem right now being that Reapers get punished much less than the other Emissaries. If it lowered everyone's grade then it would still be Punishing Other Emissaries more as its harder to level them back up and you lose any voyage you're on, and you cant go in with loot.

    But it could be a nice thing. If you haveLvL5 and go to 4, you can get your LvL5 Quest again.

  • Frogfish12
    Lord
    Insider

    @panguru3694 Would be overpowered for Athena and Reapers Emissary

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @panguru3694 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @frogfish12 sagte in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @kakaroto9766 My Question would then be if that's just a Blanket 2.5 across all factions. The problem right now being that Reapers get punished much less than the other Emissaries. If it lowered everyone's grade then it would still be Punishing Other Emissaries more as its harder to level them back up and you lose any voyage you're on, and you cant go in with loot.

    But it could be a nice thing. If you haveLvL5 and go to 4, you can get your LvL5 Quest again.

    Ooh, that's a good point. 👍

  • Panguru3694
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @frogfish12
    You are right.

    In the end, lowering the Level would br another can of worms for us.

    Same Level as before oder losing the flag are options.

    Losing the flag would mean in my opinion, that nobody would hopp again. There is no benefit in it.

    Letting it stay on, must come with less randomness, more awareness of it.

    Nobody wants another ship that spawns on/right next to him.
    Nobody wants to check the map every minute.

    I can understand why Rare need time to look into this.

    Does anyone noticed more hopping? I think its happened more at the weekand, but thats just a feeling.

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    i agree that the way reapers work at the moment is just plain bad game design and something needs to change to improve that.

    however implementing a worse mechanic like server hopping is not the answer. i haven't seen 1 good argument for keeping it in the game or altering how it works enough to keep it in the game.

    at this point i dont hold out much hope that it will get changed however as so many exploits have been in this game since i've been playing and never fixed, such as being able to run with loot, silent boarding and mermaids smoke appearing for everyone. if rare cant/wont fix them i've given up hope that this exploit will be changed

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @greatfailure82 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    however implementing a worse mechanic like server hopping is not the answer. i haven't seen 1 good argument for keeping it in the game or altering how it works enough to keep it in the game.

    I play reaper often and I honestly see no issues with how reapers work. The problem is that people want quick, easy, juicy prey all the time...And thats just not how its supposed to work.

    PVE Has to work for the loot, go dig in different islands, open the vault, solve the puzzle, avoid reapers.

    PVP Just wants to spawn and "Oh there they are! Lvl 5 emisary!" sink them, thats it. They dont want to find the ships or handle them.

    When I am a reaper and I see a lvl 2 emissary I leave them alone and wait for them to work more so I can get more loot when I sink them. I keep track of where they are so I have idea what they are doing...are they lvl 3 and they are moving to an island where there's a vault? I check on them to see if they are doing a vault. It takes work, and its part of the fun and of the game. But a lot of reapers expect instagratification instapreyeasyloot.

    Most factions could be improved (reapers included) But I honestly do not see any issues with reapers as they are. Honestly the only issue I see is any kind of serverhopping. Even WORSE now that you can serverhop as lvl 5 reaper.

  • Panguru3694
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @kakaroto9766

    The description of your hunt makes me feeling much better.
    Like, some Reapers want to see me flourish! :-)

    Thank you for your words.

  • Frogfish12
    Lord
    Insider

    I think one of the bigger ways that other Emissaries are punished over Reapers is that you lose your voyage. Even if your Flag is removed/lowered grade then at least you can carry on that voyage. Like if you're getting chased while on the last step of your Athena voyage, it would now be viable to hop, and go to a server where nobody knows you're doing it, and dig it in peace. Right now you'd just lose the voyage and it would never be an option.

    Other Factions:

    • Hard to level
    • Requires Voyage
    • Carry Loot Regularly

    Reapers

    • 'Easy' to level
    • No voyage Needed
    • Stays at Grade 5 permanently meaning no reason to hold loot
  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @panguru3694 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @kakaroto9766

    The description of your hunt makes me feeling much better.
    Like, some Reapers want to see me flourish! :-)

    Thank you for your words.

    I want to see you flourish!... so I can reap the rewards :P

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    @kakaroto9766

    ignoring the server hopping blight. reapers encourage people not to emissary. if 1 reaper is on the map eventually it should kill all the other emissary's and then no one emissary's back up again, also if you join the server to PvE and you see a reaper you find another server meaning the reaper is fighting newer players only generally. this isn't a good situation for anyone and it should have been abundantly obvious this would happen. this is why the way reapers currently work right now is just plain bad game design

  • DrizKillz
    Commander
    Insider

    @greatfailure82 Yep, Reapers ultimately leads to a cause-and-effect stalemate mostly due to Rare's tendency to constantly bow to PvP-centric-only players (for the record, PvE getting easier is higher on my No list than this). I have no pity for anyone who chooses one side of the PvPvE camps. Concerning the emissary flag, no, nothing should go through As always, people will say they leave a copy of the flag and the simple answer is leave a copy of loot too. I don't think portals should be in the game at all. They're an eyesore, they're another obstacle to go around and could have put it in game in an easier way. Instead of an unsightly rock arch off the 6 outposts, Tia Dalma could have simply opened her tent. There's a whole freakshow coming out of that tent during the TT's anyway, it's got a green glow already, very portal like... Just have her open the flap/door and walk in to start. Problem solved... no ships going through, no loot being lost, no flags being fought over. Want to jump servers? Park the boat and walk through the tent. No more arches. Rare has been rock-solid fair for everyone in-game until this, and letting it continue just to appease a single group has been very disappointing and tarnishes the game as a whole. You all can claw and fight about knocking a level or two down all you want, the fact is it shouldn't be in game.

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    @greatfailure82 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @kakaroto9766

    ignoring the server hopping blight. reapers encourage people not to emissary. if 1 reaper is on the map eventually it should kill all the other emissary's and then no one emissary's back up again, also if you join the server to PvE and you see a reaper you find another server meaning the reaper is fighting newer players only generally. this isn't a good situation for anyone and it should have been abundantly obvious this would happen. this is why the way reapers currently work right now is just plain bad game design

    I disagree with this.

    Emissary flags + Reapers = Risk * Reward.
    Raising an emissary flag makes you earn better rewards, but puts you on the sight of reapers. Its your choice if you wanna risk it. That is organic game design.

    Also a reaper can lose vs a gold hoarder. So no, a single reaper will not wipe out a server.

    I do however agree it can be fairly common for experienced players to hunt weaker players, as it is more likely someone playing reaper will have more experience doing PVP than someone currently doing PVE.

    The solution for that however I feel is not related to mechanics of the factions, but perhaps rare should consider adding some sort of ranking system, and do its best to match players by skill levels. It would be difficult given crew can change, but having a server change when you change crew members wouldnt be too bad.

    I believe some ranking system is something rare should consider, and I think that would help fix your concern regarding skill differential, but I feel that is fairly unrelated to serverhopping using portals.

  • Panguru3694
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @kakaroto9766

    I dont think there is any rank system that could be beneficial for the game.

    We can see in any other game with ranks, that they also can get abused and players are normaly not satisfied (my.expirience). Second of this, i cannot think of a metric which reflects a players...rank.

    Also... i like to help newbies..i also like getting helped. I like fights with good PvPler. I will lose, but if it is engaging, i am happy by giving them a hard time. In an okayish rank system that wouldnt happen i think.

    But it seems thats a solution to a different problem.

    The problem is, that at any given time a R5 can plopp on any server at different points on the map unknown to the world.

  • Panguru3694
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    When you are in the tunnel of the damned, you waiting to get to a new server.

    Can we not make the time longer and play a anymation on said server.

    So everyone in the proximity knows there is somethink coming. You could even be better prepaired than said repears.

  • SharaNox
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    alternatively a reaper rework is needed, making non stolen loot worthless to a reaper and forcing them to only gain double gold from actual stolen loot/flags. end the problem, fix reapers bones

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    @kakaroto9766 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @greatfailure82 said in Remove/reset flag when entering portal:

    @kakaroto9766

    ignoring the server hopping blight. reapers encourage people not to emissary. if 1 reaper is on the map eventually it should kill all the other emissary's and then no one emissary's back up again, also if you join the server to PvE and you see a reaper you find another server meaning the reaper is fighting newer players only generally. this isn't a good situation for anyone and it should have been abundantly obvious this would happen. this is why the way reapers currently work right now is just plain bad game design

    I disagree with this.

    Emissary flags + Reapers = Risk * Reward.
    Raising an emissary flag makes you earn better rewards, but puts you on the sight of reapers. Its your choice if you wanna risk it. That is organic game design.

    Also a reaper can lose vs a gold hoarder. So no, a single reaper will not wipe out a server.

    I do however agree it can be fairly common for experienced players to hunt weaker players, as it is more likely someone playing reaper will have more experience doing PVP than someone currently doing PVE.

    The solution for that however I feel is not related to mechanics of the factions, but perhaps rare should consider adding some sort of ranking system, and do its best to match players by skill levels. It would be difficult given crew can change, but having a server change when you change crew members wouldnt be too bad.

    I believe some ranking system is something rare should consider, and I think that would help fix your concern regarding skill differential, but I feel that is fairly unrelated to serverhopping using portals.

    you said you disagreed with what i said and yet the rest of your post didn't counteract anything i just said

    yes putting an emissary up is risk vs reward and i totally agree with that and its how it should be, but it also didn't counter what i wrote. infact if anything you agreed with everything i said given the rest of your post

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    The fact that you do not understand my points or dont agree with them doesnt make it so X)

    Reapers are what creates that extra risk.

    If you want to call them a deterrent then you are completely ignoring the system. And in that case then every player out there is a deterrent to doing anything in the world, you cant go get treasure of any kind because any player (reaper or not) can sink you and be a deterrent.

    So that point of your argument is totally pointless because it is part of an intentional and well made risk/reward system.

    As for the rest, since you cannot read I will quote myself:
    "I do however agree"
    ...Keep reading from there. I know some people find it hard to read.

  • KAKAROTO9766
    Ship Mate

    Has anyone tested if broken flags go thorough?

    I was just pvping with a ship who I am SURE had at least 2 flags (I saw them sink those people, and when I boarded them I saw the broken flags). They ran away thorough the portal and didnt drop any broken flags.
    After I boarded them we were never even remotely close to the reaper. They had no rowboat, and they for sure didnt have time to row all the way from where we were to the reaper before they hopped.

    They could possibly have just dropped them off somewhere in the middle of the sea with a pirate swimming away with them just out of spite. I am just curious if anyone has actually tried to go thorough with a broken flag?

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