The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it

  • I think people are missing the point of the game. Rare made this game toward having fun with your friends and making new friends and exploring islands by doing voyages. If Rare wanted it to be all about sea battles, they would make it more realistic, with bigger crews, and more cannons, and more variety on weapons. You would fight someone every 5-10 mins or so. If you want that type of game, pre-order Skulls and Bones. I really am hyped for that part of being a pirate. It is not a game where there are massive islands to explore (see Elite Dangerous) where you can go on your own and have a peaceful experience immersed in a gigantic world. That's why solo slooping is very hard, you are in a game designed around being and working with your friends with no friends. That's why going with randoms doesn't always work, because some people might not ever be your friend or agree with you on your decisions/opinions. To get the best experience, you go with your friends(hopefully in a 4 crew galleon) and do voyages and goof off. That's what the point of the game is about and how to get the best experience for this game. That is why I can wait patiently for content till it comes out because I am getting the most and best out of the game.

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  • @drewbob7 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    I think people are missing the point of the game. Rare made this game toward having fun with your friends and making new friends and exploring islands by doing voyages. If Rare wanted it to be all about sea battles, they would make it more realistic, with bigger crews, and more cannons, and more variety on weapons. You would fight someone every 5-10 mins or so. If you want that type of game, pre-order Skulls and Bones. I really am hyped for that part of being a pirate. It is not a game where there are massive islands to explore (see Elite Dangerous) where you can go on your own and have a peaceful experience immersed in a gigantic world. That's why solo slooping is very hard, you are in a game designed around being and working with your friends with no friends. That's why going with randoms doesn't always work, because some people might not ever be your friend or agree with you on your decisions/opinions. To get the best experience, you go with your friends(hopefully in a 4 crew galleon) and do voyages and goof off. That's what the point of the game is about and how to get the best experience for this game.

    ^^ This guy gets it

  • @drewbob7 I do agree with you. People are missing the idea of having simple fun, enjoying the company of a crew, but overall, the idea of sailing and discovering.

    This game for me in its simplicity, is simply amazing!

  • Could not have said it better myself, Me and my crew having an awsome day/evening everytime we go on the game, and we laugh so hard sometimes we extent our irl lives 10 year each playsession :P

  • I am not complaining. I am earning my ranks right now and it feels like it. I became a Gold Magnate earlier and I did earn that. And I get better at this game each day.

    Bring on the more content- and ill deal with that also. Cant wait

  • @DrewBob7 I agree completely. The s*****c rush towards grief driven pvp play style is bothersome. The game supports that style, and therefore I accept it as part of the experience. Sometimes I even laud it as quite entertaining.

    But it isn't really the default expression of the game sadly there are several factors which seem to enforce this behavior and few which challenge this type of play.

    First, there is a grind to 50 currently. It's the only direct focus of the game at this moment. Therefore any treasure, especially treasure which might be easily obtained is valuable. Even that sliver from a castaway chest stolen from a sloop, while your galleon turns in it's raid bounty, is motivation enough for most players.

    There is no obvious content or game play reward for simply doing missions and having a laugh with others in the community.

    The game requires some patience due to situations of long distance travel, especially when the wind is against you. Quite a lot of players simply do not have that.

    Alot of players simply don't have the skill they profess they do. So they don't play as organically as a successful crew compared to others leading to potentially bad experiences, especially considering most players want different things from any given game. For example, I personally, despise open pvp and prefer co-operative experiences and light-hearted fun but nothing in the game currently requires that. Even a skull fort can be solo'd if your on a quiet server.

    Players, now days seem groomed toward elitism - especially in the PC community.

    Many of those I've known who've made legend don't even care for the game at the moment. Instead they are 'selling quests' for real money via pay pal. Placing more interest in the content based on it's sale value in the real world vs playing for sport and having fun.

    The content we will be getting in may - should have already been in the game.

    There's NOTHING as a carrot on the stick currently aside from grinding.

    Most gamers seem more interested in exploiting current content for max effectiveness than simply exploring the game and chilling with friends.

    I agree with your post, and I have tons more to list and offer as reasons this sort of issue wont fade away.

    My hope, is that as the game matures the players will begin to deviate from the patterns of the current grind. But even rare in an off hand comment in their most recent videos expressed that players aren't coming together so much as they have no real reason too.

    Rare does seem to hope to change this by pushing content that requests co-operation but without a dynamic and ENFORCED game driven tool set to correct this I am afraid Sea of Thieves will forever remain the PvP focused, screw the next guy over, ADHD riddled cry fest that many players I tend to meet treat it as.

    So, if you are looking for a player who enjoys pina colada's and getting caught in the rain, who is willing to spend hours both maximizing profits and chilling out exploring currently pointless secret caves and looking for hidden chests in the red seas or "Island 13" somewhere in NO LEMONS land hit me up.

    My actual gamertag is Blooddoll22 but this website seems content forcing me to log in as my son unless I go through a process of tracking down cookies and logging out of various apps.

    EDIT Typo in username corrected, DOH!

  • @drewbob7 Thank you! This has been my sentiment this whole time. Watching the content video the other day & them saying they wanted to bring more ways for players to come together felt like a confirmation of what you're saying. I think the more content they add going forward, the more the community will start to settle on what the vision is. Some of the more "hardcore pvp" players will move on. And that's fine. The "danger" can/will always be in the minds of the other crews you come across and how they might react to seeing you. Friend or Foe. And that will always be interesting and lead to fun stories to tell.

    The more I play, the more I feel like they don't really need to even add a bounty system or anything. Pvp shouldn't need to be encouraged or discouraged...only "possible." It's not always fair, but it is what it is.

  • @mcdougle99 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    @drewbob7 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    I think people are missing the point of the game. Rare made this game toward having fun with your friends and making new friends and exploring islands by doing voyages. If Rare wanted it to be all about sea battles, they would make it more realistic, with bigger crews, and more cannons, and more variety on weapons. You would fight someone every 5-10 mins or so. If you want that type of game, pre-order Skulls and Bones. I really am hyped for that part of being a pirate. It is not a game where there are massive islands to explore (see Elite Dangerous) where you can go on your own and have a peaceful experience immersed in a gigantic world. That's why solo slooping is very hard, you are in a game designed around being and working with your friends with no friends. That's why going with randoms doesn't always work, because some people might not ever be your friend or agree with you on your decisions/opinions. To get the best experience, you go with your friends(hopefully in a 4 crew galleon) and do voyages and goof off. That's what the point of the game is about and how to get the best experience for this game.

    ^^ This guy gets it

    So like 6-10 hours of content before you've pretty much done everything there is to do? Let's assume you play every song on every instrument/get drunk/do a voyage for every alliance/do a skull fort/get attacked by a Kraken/ and 1 good round of PvP, all with 4 friends. You can pretty much do all of those things in like 1 (maybe 2) good day(s) of playing. How many real permutations of those previous mentioned things are there before you can say you've completed the game? People are complaining because they've done everything. They have every right to be disappointed. There's a massive misunderstanding between gaming demographics here -- one casual market is ok with 10 hours of content and 60$ game cost -- the other (usually competitive and MMO-experienced) is expecting like 500 hours of content at the same 60$

  • The Islands are pretty bare and there is not much to explore imo

  • @drewbob7 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    If Rare wanted it to be all about sea battles, they would make it more realistic, with bigger crews, and more cannons, and more variety on weapons. You would fight someone every 5-10 mins or so.

    During beta they said in a video that you should encounter someone every 15-30 minutes minutes. RARE has always made simple easy to pick up on games though so im not surprised to see a super advanced combat system.
    Im not disagreeing with you btw, i agree with everything you have said. I wouldnt play this game if i didnt have my group of friends to play it with cause thats how ive been able to create enjoyment in the game

    @levernicus said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    So like 6-10 hours of content before you've pretty much done everything there is to do? Let's assume you play every song on every instrument/get drunk/do a voyage for every alliance/do a skull fort/get attacked by a Kraken/ and 1 good round of PvP, all with 4 friends. You can pretty much do all of those things in like 1 (maybe 2) good day(s) of playing. How many real permutations of those previous mentioned things are there before you can say you've completed the game? People are complaining because they've done everything. They have every right to be disappointed. There's a massive misunderstanding between gaming demographics here -- one casual market is ok with 10 hours of content and 60$ game cost -- the other (usually competitive and MMO-experienced) is expecting like 500 hours of content at the same 60$

    I also agree with this, if I didnt have friends to play with i would 100% be on this side of the playerbase that feels theres not enough. Plus as a pc player I can get games for much cheaper that have 100's of hours of gameplay.

  • @LeVernicus @Rutta Im not saying there is enough content, i just think that people are missing out on content/ complaining that what they think is the foundation of the game is good, because it is not the true foundation

  • @drewbob7 What if I said that disagreeable (and perhaps less-socially inclined) people actually do have some such social experiences, but objectively understand that you cannot attribute a social experience (which the player alone is responsible for) to the 60$ cost of the game as being a justifiable excuse for lack of content development and high mark-up.

    Edit: and if such a thing were true then the same players would be perfectly capable of paying 60$ to play slither.io with their friends and they would call it 'such a great experience'

  • @LeVernicus i cant exactly disagree with that statement, but I feel that $60 will be justifiable the end of this year, with 5 major updates coming

  • @levernicus I can definitely agree that there should be more...but I also saw beforehand that it was gonna be a Game as a Service model so I knew that whatever was out on Day 1...there was more to come. More and more games are doing this and I honestly don't have a problem with the model. I think they need to get on adding more cosmetics ASAP. And with the Hungering Deep and weekly events coming that will change a lot hopefully.

    It all boils down to expectations like you said. I'm also coming from a place where I just bought the Game Pass. So I didn't invest like some others did. But I plan on keeping the subscription at least until the game is on sale or I save up my Microsoft Reward Points to get a nice discount. The good news is if you purchased the game...you're already in it for the long haul anyway and the content coming is free. So might as well see where the road takes you. The slow drip of content is annoying though & I understand the frustration. I was actually looking forward to Pets even though it would mean me spending money. I was thinking maybe that could lead to an influx of cash to do hire more employees (maybe offsetting the loss with Game Pass users like me) and that could potentially lead to more content sooner...

  • @drewbob7 I agree that people miss the point of the game.

    When that happens, though, it's almost always a problem with the game design not the players.

    In Sea of Thieves' case, there are two or three specific design decisions that push people towards missing the point, and the game suffers for it.

  • @lewminous said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    @levernicus but I also saw beforehand that it was gonna be a Game as a Service model so I knew that whatever was out on Day 1...there was more to come.

    I applaud your optimism but the reality here is that this game is hardly a representation of Gaming as a Service. GaaS models usually incorporate one or more of the following:

    1. In-game transactions or in-game currencies that can be used to purchase in-game content and items (either stat based or cosmetic)
    2. Defined plans and calendared detailed updates usually monthly or quarterly (not just vague plans and patches) detailing to exactitude so that the community understands what kind of content is coming.
    3. Subscription or pay-as-you-go based accounts

    The main difference here being that cash flow is not simply a one-time thing but the hope that the community in a sense subscribes and pays over time for the on-going development of the game. That's very different from SoT's pay-once and everything's free model.

  • There is literally nothing to discover. The world is dead. I love this game but the point is up to the player. It's a sandbox.

  • @drewbob7 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    @LeVernicus i cant exactly disagree with that statement, but I feel that $60 will be justifiable the end of this year, with 5 major updates coming

    Then it should be 60 at the end of the year, not now. That's the problem.

  • My belief is this is due to Skinner Box game design being so prevalent for the past decade.
    SOT really steps away from that type of experience, leaving some people unable to get a 'fix'.
    Bearing in mind, skinner box is akin to brainwashing or conditioning, its addictive and inescapable if your susceptible -thats the point and why its so successful, and why reaction to its removal is so...passionate!?
    Those people seek reward from their immediate actions at regular intervals, not from their context.
    Its the same reason people don't see the opportunities in the game, and some can't play at all without more 'content'.

  • @kashaarafall said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    @drewbob7 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    @LeVernicus i cant exactly disagree with that statement, but I feel that $60 will be justifiable the end of this year, with 5 major updates coming

    Then it should be 60 at the end of the year, not now. That's the problem.

    L**o I agree

  • exploration is pointless. there is literally nothing to do on any island you go to. even if you find a bad a*s cave. what do you do? stand in it? then you grind doing the exact same missions over and over, going to the exact same islands until you finally hit pirate legend. and then what? the quests arent any different. oh wow you get a cool pirate hideout.... and what? just stand in it? make NPC ships. let players be able to trade, bet and gamble. make the islands actually interactive. instead of just basically an empty room with maybe a random chest and supplies.

  • @Kashaarafall @RentedDragoon46 I do agree with you, but I am willing to wait. Patience is a Virtue.
    @Deadlock-Ganj I would like to point out that good friends make all the difference(Said this in OP btw) I would agree with you if I was a solo player, but i'm not and have never experience that because I play with good friends who understand the point of the game and came to have fun doing stuff in general.
    @General-Carnage You have made a really good point that I wholeheartedly agree with! you should make a new topic on this subject, I would read it!

  • I agree that I think some people may miss the overall point of the game. Many people are looking for exact instruction on what they should be doing or how they should be doing it, as can be the case with other games. But this is pretty darn open. With that said, I cannot disagree that I would like to see more reasons to explore. I have found things, some very lucrative things, just lying around washed up on a beach. And that is always a fun find. However, those occurrences are not as often as I think they should be. And you should find more things in reefs. I have searched many reefs and have never found anything, and that was disappointing. I also wish there was more interaction with the NPCs, as I think they can do so much more with that. And that seems to be on the way in some form.
    Despite some of the disappointments that I mentioned, I actually still enjoy playing the game very much. And I agree that it is meant to be played with friends and that is when I have the most fun. I occasionally play solo, but that is not super often.
    I think Rare is understanding the feedback and is trying to properly respond, but only time will tell.
    But in the meantime I am having fun.

  • The points I read here are good, but at this moment I only feel like replying to say one little thing.

    If my understanding is accurate, in Skull & Bones you will not play as a sailor, but as the entire ship, which makes a whole different can of worms.

  • @levernicus said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    @lewminous said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    @levernicus but I also saw beforehand that it was gonna be a Game as a Service model so I knew that whatever was out on Day 1...there was more to come.

    I applaud your optimism but the reality here is that this game is hardly a representation of Gaming as a Service. GaaS models usually incorporate one or more of the following:

    1. In-game transactions or in-game currencies that can be used to purchase in-game content and items (either stat based or cosmetic)
    2. Defined plans and calendared detailed updates usually monthly or quarterly (not just vague plans and patches) detailing to exactitude so that the community understands what kind of content is coming.
    3. Subscription or pay-as-you-go based accounts

    The main difference here being that cash flow is not simply a one-time thing but the hope that the community in a sense subscribes and pays over time for the on-going development of the game. That's very different from SoT's pay-once and everything's free model.

    It's not really optimism. I'm just not upset like some are. But I've not spent money like others have, which I mentioned.

    1. The game will have micro transactions somewhere down the line in the form of pets, etc. Everyone knows that.

    2. Other games like The Division, Dragon Age: Inquisition, The Crew, etc. I have played have grown & changed over time not including dlc. Sometimes with free/paid expansions or a mix of the 2. Those games are often referred to as GaaS. Even though they are all a bit different. Even games like Elder Scrolls Online that is clearly subscription based along with micro transactions when a road map or upcoming expansion is announced you don't get every single detail upfront. Sometimes it's just a title or brief description. And as it gets closer they roll out more informatio, trailer, etc. Many games do that. The way the Division was handled is a perfect example of this.

    3. You're right. But isn't this sort of a grey area with game pass? I wouldn't be surprised if after year one it goes free to play. With micro transactions in full effect and free expansions. Don't see why not.

  • @The-Song42 Yes you are right but it is all about naval warfare, which was what I was referencing to.

  • You tryin to talk me out of PvP, arent ya?! Thats not gonna happen :D

  • @levernicus I will never disagree that this game should have likely released with at least one or perhaps two of the upcoming updates already present and play ready.

    That doesn't mean that the game is incomplete. There isn't much "content" in this game currently, I absolutely agree.

    There's three major quest types and they simply repeat. That's not much content. There's no current reward for exploration, that dissolves the gain value of the action for most. There are literally two enemies in the game beyond pvp'ers.

    But none of that is the heart of the game.

    The heart of the game, as presented, is experiential.

    It's about Social gaming, or at least that's the proclaimed intent. It's about exploring waters, doing quests, chatting with friends in game, hitting unique achievements (of which there aren't many yet), taking screen shots, grinding to 50 three times then doing the legendaries, all while finding a good crew of laugh worthy friends and enjoying the social element.

    That's the sale tag currently.

    This isn't a great pvp game model compared to the twitch happy CoD types. This isn't a deep content rich offering (yet).

    But, should folks choose to slow down and log in to the discord, get on the twitter feeds, dig through the silly puzzles that are hidden in content videos, not be afraid to 'waste time', meet players, enjoy players even "bad ones" or "noobs", forge stories of success and laughable failure, then, just maybe then, the heart of the game will expose itself to the player.

    That's what it's "currently" about. IN MY OPINION.

    Trust me, this game needs more content, I whole-heartedly agree.

    But take it as a social game, it's not nearly so bad as some hope to proclaim.

    EDIT to add
    And it's not a $60 game. It's a $10 monthly game with over 99 other titles per month added in. OR it's a $60 solo title if 6 months of 100+ games added in aren't interesting enough for you and your afraid of monthly bills.

  • @general-carnage said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

    My belief is this is due to Skinner Box game design being so prevalent for the past decade.
    SOT really steps away from that type of experience, leaving some people unable to get a 'fix'.
    Bearing in mind, skinner box is akin to brainwashing or conditioning, its addictive and inescapable if your susceptible -thats the point and why its so successful, and why reaction to its removal is so...passionate!?
    Those people seek reward from their immediate actions at regular intervals, not from their context.
    Its the same reason people don't see the opportunities in the game, and some can't play at all without more 'content'.

    This is it, exactly. Players are too used to extrinsic rewards from playing games - seeing the game as a means to an end, that end being some in-game reward (e.g. unlocks) or something outside the game (e.g. achievements). Sea of Thieves is built around intrinsic rewards - the means is the end, getting enjoyment from actually playing the game, and getting swept up in the adventure. So if you don't actually enjoy playing the game now, or see it as a step towards achieving something tangible, then you're never going to enjoy it, in my opinion. And if that was me I really wouldn't bother.

    If you're 'grinding' towards Pirate Legend - or see the game as a 'grind' at all - then it's kind of pointless. There's no rush, enjoy the journey! And if you don't enjoy the journey, then don't bother!!

  • @drewbob7 yeah, even bad games can be fun with friends, but this idea is not very useful, we must tell the devs what’s wrong in SoT.

  • @CoyoTe4711 I just said what the target audience is, not trying to discourage you. I myself like a bit of pvp, but don't shoot first. I am just warning people that arn't the target audience might not like all of the changes coming.

  • @LoboFH yeah, i am working on a post for that right now so, that will be coming soon!

  • What's the point of exploring an island that has nothing on it?

    I found a blue skull with a key on it in cave inside a broken boat.
    I found a red skull with a key on it on a spike inside a cave.
    I found an underwater temple.
    I found Davey Jones under the big pointy rock.
    I found a hidden tiki on unmarked island.
    I explored underwater reefs cave.

    What did I get out of it? Nothing.

    If I am unable to interact with anything because it was not yet implemented, what the hell is the point?

    This game was great for the first 30 levels then it became a grind where you want to kill yourself. At that point you just stop having fund with the friends you made and all of you hate doing the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over again.

  • @HoD-Make-U-Rage If you have friends that you don't have fun with, find a group/crew! i do agree that the game needs more, but if you say there's no point and believe that, you will never find a point.

  • @drewbob7 I'm on (probably) the most populated SoT discord server.

    Finding a crew is not a problem.
    Like I said the 1st 30-35 levels were great, we had a ton of laughs.
    The grind to 50 though, I thought playing Cortana level on Legendary was bad but at least I didn't have to do the same thing for 3-4 hours for 1 level. I need only 7 (3 gold, 4 souls) and I'm done.

    I need crews that are just as masochistic as me who just want to get it over with so we can have fun again.

    The curve for the last 7 levels of each faction is ridiculous. I got on crews that wanted to sail for 20 minutes for 1 freakin riddle and another 10 looking for it. And what did it give us? A castaways chest that was probably worth 83. I just left screw that time is money not fun at the end. Maybe if riddles were guaranteed to have captains chest and the last few levels didn't feel like purgatory I wouldn't have my crew mates tell me they didn't sleep in 2 days because this grind is destroying them.

    When i get to 50 i will be able to have fun again because I dont have to spend a whole day doing the same thing feeling like I am getting nowhere.

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