Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.

@angrycoconut16

Bump. If players are putting in the effort to experience various elements of the game, I don't think it's too far-fetched to suggest that they be rewarded experience.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@nquarter I believe part of the issue is the fanfare screen "Voyage Complete". We can all agree it does not feel very complete when that screen pops up. You still have loot, and your rewards have not popped into the proper account (Rep or Gold). Yet, a screen just flashed that distinctly says "Voyage Complete". At best it is confusing. Except for the MA voyagers that complete...well...when you actually turn in.

This is a stretch. At best? At best, a player understands that Voyage Complete means that the current voyage is, well, complete, and they are able to put down a new voyage if they wish, with or without heading to an outpost to turn in loot. I find your assertion absurd that the best case scenario is that every player is at least confused by something which is not even the slightest bit confusing.

If you are the "attacked" individual or crew you risk to lose all of your items, the gold and reputation value, as well as the time you invested to gather. The attacker risks nothing. It is not the risk itself, it is the lack of balance in that risk. PvP is pointless if you happen to have loot on board. You stand to gain absolutely nothing

These points are patently false. If either party has loot, then PvP has an extremely important point. The attacker stands to gain loot. The defender stands to, well, defend his loot. That in and of itself is a core aspect of the game.

As for the PvPer risking nothing, that is also false. The PvPer risks his time just the same as thePvEer (nevermind that plenty of people engage in PvP attacks with loot of their own onboard), this time on the chance of coming away with loot (as opposed to the PvEer who is guaranteed to find loot). The PvPer takes the greater gamble with their time as it relates to actually finding loot, and faces the same task of returning safely to an outpost. Your suggestion does everything to ensure that a PvE player has never completely wasted their time, but nothing so for a PvPer.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky You make some really great points here. They are however based in opinion, of how some like to play, not all. Some people enjoy the sailing around and eye balling the scenery. Others enjoy the questing. Some the PvP. Many of us a combination of all that is offered.

It is safe to say that no one "enjoys" logging out empty handed, especially after investing time toward progression. Some folks are chasing that "finish line". That is what they have fun doing. The benefit that rewarding reputation at an earlier point (whatever that may be) offers is allowing some flexibility in how players play. This is a game, entertainment. When it stops being entertaining, it has failed. I see no issue with rewarding the reputation (experience points) at the Voyage Complete screen, or rewarding it for the tasks involved (kill a skeleton, solve a riddle, defeat another crew, etc.) Part of the issue here is the "grind" will feel a lot less grindy if the way and timing rewards were done was spread out. If progression was constant. Speaking for myself only here, I would engage a lot more often if I knew either my reputation stayed intact or I stood to gain some from the battle.

It may be based on opinion but its backed up by game mechanics. You might want to put emphasis on the PvE but in the end, the game is structured so you don't need to. Which is not an opinion.

And I enjoy logging out empty handed, at least in such a way that I don't consider it a waste of time if I enjoyed playing the game. That's the point of games. Do you get entertained from playing the game?

It feels grindy because you don't enjoy the core gameplay loop. Getting to pirate legend just is more of the same. The reputations are entirely inconsequential to the gameplay loop. If you don't like it now, you won't like it later.

@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky The trouble is Rare have introduced the rank of pirate legend and some players set that as a 'goal post', it is something to aim for, something to achieve. I know that upgrades are purely cosmetic.

Obviously if you spend a long time on the game, then it is extremely unlikely you won't get anything, but if you log on for a period in the evening, or perhaps like me currently you are working full time and studying for additional qualifications, you may have limited time... so losing your loot can quite literally be all of the time you have spent in that gaming session.

As someone that works full time, owns a house and works even on the weekends (woo salary jobs), I've nearly ranked up to mostly 40. And I don't play every day or come close to playing every day, and I have lost all my s**t numerous times.

The difference between me and most people on the forums is I actually enjoy the game for what it is and just play it. There is nothing gameplay wise I feel like I need to unlock. For someone like me, this game is perfect. I can eventually rank to 50 but I'm never left behind and can always play with my friends. I'm not forced to play a specific way for specific reputation (like wow's dailies), And as the community ranks up more people have higher level missions and everyone can get better missions with more loot turn-ins so the community will inevitably be dragged up faster.

I understand where you're coming from. What I'm saying is your being held back by your own perspective and likely won't enjoy the game anymore even if they gave you rep. The fact that the chests are valuable allows you to indulge in a fantasy where fighting over them really matters. Being able to lose everything on an adventure is what really creates stakes and tension in the game. I don't think this game would have the same spirit/ethos if you could just grind quests and losing the chests would be inconsequential.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky All Excellent points! I do enjoy the game. I am very much entertained by it, or frankly I wouldn't be in here discussing it. There are aspects I don't enjoy. One of which is the way the rewards are dealt. I prefer the reputation (or experience points) be rewarded at the Voyage Complete screen. The Gold upon turn in. Just my opinion. I only consider it a waste of time in the cases where no progression is made. Finally, it feels grindy because right now it is! Hopefully that changes a bit with Hungering Deep.

Its only grindy if your focused on the progression and your here complaining because the rest of the game is getting in the way of your progression and you want a more easy way to progress. If you focused on the adventure and what happens during the adventure as a single game you either win or lose and enjoy it even the mess PvP sometimes creates, the game is amazing. Trying to progress is the wrong way to approach this game. It requires fundamental changes to make it a worthwhile experience otherwise.

@pumpkinkangaroo said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

I had posted in the other thread and my thoughts still stand, but they have refined.

I would love Rep to be awarded on voyage complete to make my effort in doing those voyages worth it. I spent the time doing them and if my loot is stolen then all that was wasted. I do think all loot, chest, skulls, and various spices and teas should be treated as they are now. You get the same rep and gold on turn in.

No PvP player would lose anything. Their system remains intact. It only changes PvE voyages by making them rewarding even if the Object is lost. I would be more willing to engage in PvP and even carry more booty and I would think this would benefit the PvP players as I'm no good with a cannon!

How does this harm the PvP players? They literally lose nothing but have more to gain if more players like me are willing to engage.

If you make finding loot 50% more rewarding but do no such increase for fighting for loot, you're going to see a significant decrease in the amount players willing to spend time fighting for loot.

Especially if loot that is fought for and lost doesn't come with a 50% consolation prize. Why further reward PvE without doing the same for PvP, particularly given than PvE is already far more rewarding in the first place?

@angrycoconut16

You're moving the post to allow people to reach pirate legend without returning loot. If the pirate legend is the important aspect of the game to those people the chests become inconsequential. In fact, it probably wouldn't be that worthwhile to even pick them up, just do quests as fast as possible. That's kind of what's happening post pirate legend rep...

I also don't think being fixated on pirate legend is healthy for this game. Just enjoy an adventure with friends and if you lose everything, remember it doesn't negatively impact your next game. It's not like WoW if there is too much PvP in an area you literally can't progress in the story quests.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky The "Gold" in this game is "inconsequential" becasue it's value is only cosmetic. It is only valuable to the players that have to have something that looks different. Except for one little tiny thing... Promotion costs. I mentioned earlier how paying a faction for promotion is so tiny that you hardly notice it. So, if Reputation and Gold were awarded separately, BUT the cost of promotion significantly increased, Gold value will also increase, or at a minimum remain a very lucrative commodity.

Well even the rep in this game is inconsequential. There is nothing that progressing unlocks that is new in a functional gameplay mechanics wise, no story, no new areas, no new quests... You can literally enjoy this game without ever leveling up your quest ranks or care about them.

It may not sound sane, but being able to lose everything is part of the fun in this game. Its what makes the loss of loot at the moment devastating, it's what makes pirating so thrilling... And you start fresh with no real consequence to how your last game ended.

@greaseman85 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@nwo-azcrack said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
That however is a user problem, not a deliberate design of the game.

Those games you mentioned have also the possibility of dying before reaching a save point or choosing to save, just as Sea of Thieves has the possibility of your ship being sunk before reaching an outpost. What in actuality makes Sea of Thieves any different?

@angrycoconut16 I could get behind this idea strongly though I would like some gold for my efforts simply because that is what I as a player care more about.
I do believe that the amount of loss will eventually destroy the game and encourages a play-style where people get on and harass other boats and then get off. (I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed but it shouldn't be encouraged nearly as much as taking missions and completing voyages)
Basically, what I'm saying is good idea, but I want my money

@greaseman85 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@greaseman85 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@nwo-azcrack said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
That however is a user problem, not a deliberate design of the game.

Those games you mentioned have also the possibility of dying before reaching a save point or choosing to save, just as Sea of Thieves has the possibility of your ship being sunk before reaching an outpost. What in actuality makes Sea of Thieves any different?

That's exactly what I said, you can die before saving the game. That's why I said it is a user error and not a deliberate design. You can save those games at any time. Other games that don't have on-demand saving have frequent automatic save points where you lose 10 to 15 minutes at most, not hours.
You can't do that with Sea of Thieves, hence the experience is not positive for many people.

Those games usually need you to complete something though. Sea of Thieves does not. There is more value gameplay wise creating tension with the ability to lose everything.

@greaseman85 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

Sure, but the problem is it is a mental thing. People play games to feel like they're progressing and accomplishing something. People will have to change how they have viewed games for 40 years to fully enjoy the game. Rare won't accomplish that, I'm afraid.

Ok but different games accomplish different things for different people. Not all games need or should put emphasis on progression when they've explicitly avoided splitting up the community or need progression.

This isn't an argument that suggests whether or not this feature is actually necessary or beneficial for this game. It's not hard to rank up and if they make it easier the people playing for progressing will just leave sooner. It adds no value to the game. They'd have to add a lot more to the progression system and fundamentally redesign the core mechanics.

@greaseman85 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@greaseman85 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@nwo-azcrack said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
That however is a user problem, not a deliberate design of the game.

Those games you mentioned have also the possibility of dying before reaching a save point or choosing to save, just as Sea of Thieves has the possibility of your ship being sunk before reaching an outpost. What in actuality makes Sea of Thieves any different?

That's exactly what I said, you can die before saving the game. That's why I said it is a user error and not a deliberate design. You can save those games at any time. Other games that don't have on-demand saving have frequent automatic save points where you lose 10 to 15 minutes at most, not hours.
You can't do that with Sea of Thieves, hence the experience is not positive for many people.

You are free to visit an outpost at any time in Sea of Thieves. If you choose to do so at a frequency that puts too much loot at risk, that is user error just the same.