- Allows devs to see how to improve the Galleon if Sloops are favored
- Reduces the impact of non productive teammates
- Eases ship duties allowing players to be more involved in combat
- Gives players the freedom to choose (ship and crew size) instead of cookie-cutter templates
- Reduces predictability of crew size when spotting other ships
- Brings smaller class ships into large scale fights (with the addition of another (larger) ship type in May)
4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...
@admiral-tweedle and there is one reason why it's a very bad idea and neutralizes all of your "good reasons" immediatly: Solo-Players have no more chance at all
@schwammlgott said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
@admiral-tweedle and there is one reason why it's a very bad idea and neutralizes all of your "good reasons" immediatly: Solo-Players have no more chance at all
I have worried about this too.
The way it stands right now, I'm almost always skeptical of engaging in PvP as a solo player. I don't have any way to know if I'll be outnumbered before bullets start flying. A solo sloop versus a Galleon with an average-skilled crew is suicide for the sloop, most always. A solo sloop versus a duo sloop stands a chance, because luck [and skill] could allow a single person to overcome a 2 v 1 situation... but 4 v 1? Those are not odds that are worth gambling with.
@admiral-tweedle said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
@wodyo That's why you don't attack a Galleon as a solo player on a Sloop.
Lol, I've done it once or twice, just fooling around. But yeah, it's generally a bad idea. :D
Still, if they're going to make it next-to impossible for a solo player to partake in PvP (with more than a remote chance of winning), then why allow solo play at all?
Eases ship duties and allowes the crew to be more involved in combat basically translates to players enjoying the mechanics of sailing a bigger ship and working with their crew will be left behind, because trigger happy players which don’t like the part of sailing will keep on trying to board you persistently, broadening your sailing experience by introducing a permanent ladder watching post.
@admiral-tweedle with two people you can scuttle a sloop and save it with 4 it won't be broken at all!
@neptuncynic said:
...translates to players enjoying the mechanics of sailing a bigger ship and working with their crew will be left behind...
If you enjoy working with your (4 man) crew on a bigger ship, you should be just as successful if not more in a Galleon. The differences are usually found in preparation and teamwork.
@admiral-tweedle sagte in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
@neptuncynic said:
...translates to players enjoying the mechanics of sailing a bigger ship and working with their crew will be left behind...
If you enjoy working with your (4 man) crew on a bigger ship, you should be just as successful if not more in a Galleon. The differences are usually found in preparation and teamwork.
English is not my native language, but this sentence makes no sense at all...
@wodyo said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
@admiral-tweedle said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
@wodyo That's why you don't attack a Galleon as a solo player on a Sloop.
Lol, I've done it once or twice, just fooling around. But yeah, it's generally a bad idea. :D
Still, if they're going to make it next-to impossible for a solo player to partake in PvP (with more than a remote chance of winning), then why allow solo play at all?
So far im 5/8 on wins against Galleons as a solo sloop :)
Just stole a skull fort from one todayIt's not just about solo players. It completely throws off the balance for any 1 or 2 man sloop crew that was already at a dis-advantage vs 3-4 man galleons. Especially those who are not playing as pirates but merchants or bounty hunters.
Beyond that, I see a lot of people looking at this game through the fallacy of this being a PvP game and focusing solely on player combat. This is not a PvP game. It is a PvE game with a PvP mechanic in it and the balance should reflect that. This move does not do that.
Those thinking it's a PvP game ask yourself this, what is your outright reward for sinking a ship or killing another player?
Nothing. There is no "pirate" faction. All you can benefit from is if they have cargo/loot worth taking and if you can retrieve and sell it. On the other hand; regardless of how small it is, every single PvE activity grants a reward in both gold and reputation every time any of it is completed. Is that the mark of a predominately PvP or a PvE game?
@mantonx2 said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
It's not just about solo players. It completely throws off the balance for any 1 or 2 man sloop crew that was already at a dis-advantage vs 3-4 man galleons. Especially those who are not playing as pirates but merchants or bounty hunters.
Beyond that, I see a lot of people looking at this game through the fallacy of this being a PvP game and focusing solely on player combat. This is not a PvP game. It is a PvE game with a PvP mechanic in it and the balance should reflect that. This move does not do that.
Those thinking it's a PvP game ask yourself this, what is your outright reward for sinking a ship or killing another player?
Nothing. There is no "pirate" faction. All you can benefit from is if they have cargo/loot worth taking and if you can retrieve and sell it. On the other hand; regardless of how small it is, every single PvE activity grants a reward in both gold and reputation every time any of it is completed. Is that the mark of a predominately PvP or a PvE game?
The outright reward in crushing an enemy ship is fear and frustration that makes the fort easier to claim
@mantonx2 said:
1 or 2 man sloop crew that was already at a dis-advantage vs 3-4 man galleons.
There's your problem. The 1-2 man Sloop was an option because players wanted to "go it alone". It wasn't set on equal footing against their main ship, Galleon. It's a risk that players don't have to take.
True, I just believe that the ships we currently have a balanced around the tasks that need to be performed on them.
Galleon vs sloop works currently, because the smaller ship offsets the galleons larger crew with maneuverability, less tasks to perform and much shorter distances to perform them.
Put 4 players on a sloop and two of them or even three will be ready for boarding all the time, which galleon crews won’t be able to repel in battle, because the will be busy patching up their ship.
In a battle of galleons, boarding is actually risky, because the boarders lose half of their crew. During their attempt, their ship is vulnerable to attack, because the remaining crew has to perform many tasks and will have a much harder time manouvering the ship out of sticky situations at the same time.
The above is not true for the sloop.
The only disadvantage the sloop has is that it is easier to kill the crew with cannon shots. But then again, I am convinced that in battle there won’t be more than one or two remaining on deck. The others will constantly harass you and I am not sure we need to shift the focus of battle even more towards boarding than it already is.
As much as I would love to have the ability to quest with 4 people on a sloop, PvP would be unbalanced.
Yes there are tons of amazing simplicities that come with more people on a sloop, but those same simplicities are what make it terrible for PvP.
The fact that people are arguing if this is a PvP or PvE game is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what you label this game as, it still contains OPEN WORLD PvP, and because of this, there is certain balancing issues that Rare needs to think of before implementing any game-changing decisions like this.
Edit: Who would want to be on a galley if you can 4-man a sloop? No one. Galleys would be out of the picture.
@rattlyfob said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
The outright reward in crushing an enemy ship is fear and frustration that makes the fort easier to claim
That's not a game mechanic. That's in your head. And the game isn't "Sea of Thieves: Skullfort Combat"
@admiral-tweedle said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
There's your problem. The 1-2 man Sloop was an option because players wanted to "go it alone". It wasn't set on equal footing against their main ship, Galleon. It's a risk that players don't have to take.
2 man crews can't go it alone. It's a ship that is more challenging and dangerous but for that you gained a few very small advantages to help with a bit more balance. All of those advantages are negated against a 4-man version of the same ship. I don't even know how a sloop's single canon broadside can ever put enough damage on a 4-man sloop to take it down even if they don't repair.
@admiral-tweedle said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
@mantonx2 said:
1 or 2 man sloop crew that was already at a dis-advantage vs 3-4 man galleons.
There's your problem. The 1-2 man Sloop was an option because players wanted to "go it alone". It wasn't set on equal footing against their main ship, Galleon. It's a risk that players don't have to take.
1-2 man sloops are for the challenge of a harder fight.
If you need more crew/a helmsman i am always willing to rock
@eddythecaptain said
Edit: Who would want to be on a galley if you can 4-man a sloop? No one. Galleys would be out of the picture.
That is what my first point was about. What kind of ship do players enjoy the most, then build from there.
@mantonx2 said: I don't even know how a sloop's single canon broadside can ever put enough damage on a 4-man sloop to take it down even if they don't repair.
Spoiler:
It can't. Might want to stop attacking as a solo player and expect equality in every scenario you put yourself in.
@admiral-tweedle said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
Spoiler:
It can't. Might want to stop attacking as a solo player and expect equality in every scenario you put yourself in.
And again, a 2-man sloop doesn't gain some mystery cannon that can be used. It has nothing to do with just solo players, so kindly stop trying to characterize it like that.
Are there people who will excel at this even with a 4-man sloop? Absolutely. But you don't balance your game for the top percentile of players. And in a PvE game, you also need to take into account the balance as it applies to non-PvP activity.
@admiral-tweedle said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
@mantonx2 It's a PvP game. That's the core Sea-of-Thieves. Be more pirate!
Really? Name the in-game reward that you get for sinking a ship or killing another pirate. How much rep do you get for each ship you sink? How much gold for killing another player?
@mantonx2 I'd rather sink someone else's ship and take their loot than to spend the time searching for it myself. More fun that way too.
Besides, gold is for cosmetics only. Since many of us already have our Black Dog packs (which look killer), no need for cosmetics...just PvP.
@mantonx2 What are you arguing exactly? This game contains PvP, therefore its a PvP game. There are plenty of PvE activities to do, but you always have to watch your back because you can be attacked at any time.
If you think this game is somehow catered to the PvE community, then you are blind. They have balanced this game pretty fairly so far for PvP, and the current limitations in party sizes reflect that.
If this was a PvE game, there would be advancements in damage against mobs and other RPG developments. There is no character damage/armor progression as there would be in a PvE game because this game is made for PvP.
@mantonx2 All of this has been discussed before within the Rare dev team as future additions.
The one thing I can bring up is Skull forts. The single most effective way of leveling up in the game. So much so that everyone is complaining about "Server hopping". Everyone wants to PvP and have some fun while also gaining something from it.
I'm not saying EVERYONE LOVES PVP AND PVE SUCKS, but the main point of this game is to be a pirate. Attack enemy ships, steal loot, and wave off as you watch their ship sink. Quests don't have much depth to them, and can be very very grindy. (Im a Pirate Legend) Trust me I know. The basis of quests is so players have loot for you to plunder after you sink them.
Im amazed if you enjoy is game solely for its PvE, because thats what most people are complaining about at the moment. Lack thereof.
@eddythecaptain I agree with you. They have balanced the game pretty fairly so far for both PvP and PvE. My concern is that this direction not only imbalances any sloop play that is not 3 or 4 man but also threatens to imbalance PvE play.
The only thing the game directly rewards you for every single time are the PvE elements that you complete (even partially) which tells me it's a PvE game with PvP mechanics and not the other way around. Yes, you -can- gain with a PvP encounter but it is up to luck in many cases if you do.
And just to clarify, I enjoy both aspects. I am part of a galleon ship crew that has never lost a PvP encounter. Not in beta and not since launch. Both crewed and alone in a sloop I will do both PvP and PvE. Regardless of what I'm in, if I am attacked I will attack back. It's not a matter of "I hate PvP" it's a matter of, I think this ship change will imbalance gameplay across the board and is a lazy way of doing this instead of instituting a 3 man vessel.
Addition: Sorry, didn't see your message about the Skullfort. Again, the skullfort is a PvE event. If 1 ship shows up, the event goes on just as it would if 5 ships show up and fight for it. You can beat the Skullfort without ever encountering another player. PvP -can- be a big part of it if it occurs but it's not necessary.
@mantonx2 said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
Yes, you -can- gain with a PvP encounter but it is up to luck in many cases if you do.
If I need supplies, I can attack a ship and get free food, wood, and cannons. As well as any loot they might have. They are bound to have supplies 95% of the time.
I think this ship change will imbalance gameplay across the board and is a lazy way of doing this instead of instituting a 3 man vessel.
I agree that new ships would be the way to go, but thats a lot of development power needed for an addition like this. My suggestion was to allow fleets instead, and this will be a lot easier for Rare to accomplish.
@getschmiton said in 4 man Sloops are a GREAT idea, and here's why...:
No one is gonna use a galleon when they add 4 man sloops
I also don't like the idea of this. I love seeing galleons out, even when I'm solo in a sloop. I am hoping that people are like me and love sailing around on a galleon so won't give it up but who knows. I don't want to see Sea of Sloops. Really, the only time I feel like a "pirate" is when I'm on the deck of a galleon. lol
Wut in tarnation..
Hey man I don't control the waves I just sail them.
4 man is literally unsinkable, you can't board, come try lol.
But, if it lets me grind faster with a buddy while two other physcopaths on the sloop are free range to Cannon themselves towards other ships I guess that would make things interesting.
Gallys always been underpowered IMHO though, needs at least 5 ;)
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