We don't need this it's not what the game is designed to be.
Vertical pve progression
@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver then there are numerous games to do that, this just isnt one of them. If i want to play something like forza do i complain to Nintendo that Mario kart shouldn't have powerups and should have more realistic car physics? Or do I play forza?
If you're not having fun playing the game as it is, then why are you playing it? If you want this game to change from what it is then you're not wanting to play that particular game in general. Want a pirate game where you have vertical Progression? Go play assassins creed black flag.
I played Mario for Mario style platforming. Imagine if I played it and went up to the fan base and said "You know, they should add guns to this game to make it funner." And imagine the backlash I'd receive from the fan base.
Or..... Play Sea of Thieves for the aspects of it that you like and leave feedback and discussion on the forums, which are here for the purpose of feedback and dicussion, about the aspects of it you don't like.
@timidobserver saying you don't like the fact that everyone's on the same level all the time, something that the game very intentionally sets out to do from the start, (otherwise known as a core concept of what makes the game the game in the first place) falls exactly into my point.
I love the fact that there's absolutely no advantages besides what you can personally do with the same things that everyone else has.
It's one thing to give feedback, it's an entirely different thing when you try to say that you want a core concept of the game changed as your feedback.
@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver saying you don't like the fact that everyone's on the same level all the time, something that the game very intentionally sets out to do from the start, (otherwise known as a core concept of what makes the game the game in the first place) falls exactly into my point.
I love the fact that there's absolutely no advantages besides what you can personally do with the same things that everyone else has.
It's one thing to give feedback, it's an entirely different thing when you try to say that you want a core concept of the game changed as your feedback.
I definitely think that people should continue leave their feedback, even on "core concepts." The worst case scenario is that the devs ignore the feedback. Having spent a lot of time playing games over the years, I know that feedback can inspire some pretty unlikely changes.
@timidobserver I said feedback is fine, but asking for a change to the core concept is another thing. That goes from constructive criticism to just asking for another game in general. To which if you want to play something else, there are options for that, like I said.
@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver I said feedback is fine, but asking for a change to the core concept is another thing. That goes from constructive criticism to just asking for another game in general. To which if you want to play something else, there are options for that, like I said.
It is not another thing. It's all just feedback. If a player likes Sea of Thieves but feels that that pure horizontal progression might not be enough keep them entertained long into the future, they should definitely Rare know unless the moderators and deckhands start locking threads on that topic. They also don't need to go play another game just because they don't like one thing about SoT.......
@timidobserver what's a game you truly enjoy? Like that game is your jam? It resonates with you on a spiritual level?
This would still have an effect on pvp, if you have a better gun for fighting sharks and you are trying to board my boat from the water and a shark spawn you get to one shot the shark while if we were swapped I would 2 shot the shark with my blunderbuss and likely be half health from getting hit once by the shark, then you can jump off your boat and you will have double my hp
@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver what's a game you truly enjoy? Like that game is your jam? It resonates with you on a spiritual level?
I've enjoyed a lot of games over the years. Diablo 1-3, Starcraft, ESO, pre-F2P SWTOR, LOTRO, Warframe, Destiny 1-2, All Elderscrolls Games, All Witcher games, GW2, Some Halo games, most Bond games, some Zelda games, Fortnite PvP and PvE, ect.
@timidobserver elder scrolls was a big one on there as I saw multiple variants and it has quite a few in its series.
Now, imagine if they took away one of the major components of that game. Let's say they altered the fact that you can't go where you wanted when you wanted. Instead you have to progress through the story and unlock an area. Let's say they made it linear. How would you feel?
@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver elder scrolls was a big one on there as I saw multiple variants and it has quite a few in its series.
Now, imagine if they took away one of the major components of that game. Let's say they altered the fact that you can't go where you wanted when you wanted. Instead you have to progress through the story and unlock an area. Let's say they made it linear. How would you feel?
I wouldn't like it, but I am sure that someone at some point has made that suggestion on some Bethesda forum somewhere. I don't have any issue with someone making that suggestion or any suggestion on a game forum. I wouldn't go tell them to play another game lol. Most of the people going through the effort to post on this forum probably like the game enough to play it despite the things that they don't like.
@timidobserver I'm also not telling people to go play another game, I said they're wanting it to be another game and that if that's what they desire then that's probably what they should do. But I make that fight for any game and fan base, even if I don't like the game.
This game from the start has been about avoiding that vertical progression that inevitably plagues balance against players. If someone wants a game where you can progress and get upgrades, there are several out there that may float their boats, heh, better than this one.
If you want to play it, that's fine too, but don't try and change what a game is.
@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver I'm also not telling people to go play another game, I said they're wanting it to be another game and that if that's what they desire then that's probably what they should do. But I make that fight for any game and fan base, even if I don't like the game.
This game from the start has been about avoiding that vertical progression that inevitably plagues balance against players. If someone wants a game where you can progress and get upgrades, there are several out there that may float their boats, heh, better than this one.
If you want to play it, that's fine too, but don't try and change what a game is.
Really? Just about everything you've said to me is in some way eluding to play another game if you want to change something about this one. Some quotes are below. The last one directly says to go play another game. It's the primary reason I am even responding to you. It comes off as a semi OCD need to control what opinion people can express.
"If someone wants a game where you can progress and get upgrades, there are several out there that may float their boats, heh, better than this one."
"To which if you want to play something else, there are options for that, like I said"
"If you're not having fun playing the game as it is, then why are you playing it?"
"If you want to play it, that's fine too, but don't try and change what a game is."
"Want a pirate game where you have vertical Progression? Go play assassins creed black flag."
Hello,
Debates on these matters are due to the fact that S.O.T comes out of the beaten track. I am not a fanboy, I have lots of doubts about how this will unwind, I do love the game though. I have seen a few games as I am an older lad... and I understand both the hype and the pre-emptive bashing happening.
The argument about the spoiled gaming generation is quite subjective. It has very good points to it, but overall I am not convinced that's the issue here. I personally believe that the main problem comes from Rare. They are not being clear about the genre this game belongs to, and I think that is so for several reasons. In any case, this leads people to imagine what they would like to see in it based on their own past experiences and preferences.
Saying that people have been spoiled with games that feed them fake content is a blunt argument. So far, VERY successful games on the long run have been either:
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Extremely competitive pvp games with very repetitive content that ages well because the game is skilled based.
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MMORPG's that have new content added every 6/12 months with extremely deep lore and pve progression systems, raids/social bonds etc.
S.O.T stands in between, no one is sure how to combine them and come up with the next best game ever. S.O.T still has a shot at it, but it's not taking shortcuts... Maybe it does not have that much ambition to begin with. We'll know soon enough!
Cheers,
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Blunderbuss that is able to kill sharks more efficiently? I believe it's called a harpoon gun. Cutlass killing skeletons more efficiently? Definitely a Holy Bible.
No need for vertical progression because it often just bloats repetition. Just add a new item to the game directly and the Rule of Two does the rest, I think.
@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver elder scrolls was a big one on there as I saw multiple variants and it has quite a few in its series.
Now, imagine if they took away one of the major components of that game. Let's say they altered the fact that you can't go where you wanted when you wanted. Instead you have to progress through the story and unlock an area. Let's say they made it linear. How would you feel?
You mean an amazing game where as you use certain spells or weapons you get more proficient with them allowing you to grow and dare I say it... progress your character?... I think I've heard of it
@timidobserver and not a single one of those is telling people outright to do so, just suggestions about playing a game that they're wanting to play, in reference to you specifically talking about playing for character progression. Plain and simple. In one of those I even said if they want to stick around and play it anyway, then it's whatever, but that still doesn't mean you should change the game to fit what you want it to be by throwing out a core concept.
@zalavaaris yeah, it's called the original zelda games. Elder scrolls has always been about the freedom to build your character however you want and to go where you want with nothing to hold you back, that's one of the core concepts that I was talking about, without it, it's not much of an elder scrolls game.
Your comment literally brought nothing to the debate I was having with timid. So why interject with it?
@zalavaaris said in Vertical pve progression:
Well gg everyone! I love the black dog pack and I love my starting ship! I also don't care for titles so I win and have accomplished the pinnacle of what this game has to offer in just preordering alone! I feel so proud and accomplished....
You haven't accomplished anything.
Can you solo a sloop? Can you solo a galleon? Even if your a skilled sailor, do you know where to go, and when? Can you aim a cannon better than a skeleton?
SoT isn't a game about power and making players feel bad. It's is about soft skills like communication, navigation, coordination, cartography, cooperation, clear thinking under fire, having fun with other people.
The cosmetics and voyages are just a sideshow.Rare makes this awesome sandbox game, but so many players have no imagination.
You don't progress your character. You progress your ability to play better.Be more pirate.
EDIT: actually you do progress your character. When you reach level fifty with all three factions and become Legendary.
mehI get where everyone is coming from. It would effect pvp, ever so slightly. IMO, i feel it's a change that would need to be tested to see if it's truly all that bad. What would also matter is the extent of that change, how much more powerful your sword would be at max level as opposed to if you were brand new. For something like this to work, it would be noticeable, yet only barely a difference, and that's between new pirate vs pirate legend.
Essentially, i wouldn't mind it, but it would be way too hard to implement accurately, and when done accurately could end up reverted if the effects to pvp end up being noticeable.
That all being said, if it were to happen, i would NOT want it to determine what sword or blunderbuss i choose. I want that cosmetic freedom, and thus if this change goes into the works, i would rather the system be angled by skill with that weapon type (use any cutlass enough and all cutlass get the power boost from leveling up, not making admiral cutlass better then sailors cutlass).
Again tho, i feel the work rare would have to do to keep the effect to pvp so minimal that everyone would be ok with it, if that's possible, isn't worth their time, especially if in the end it needs to be reverted making all that time wasted.
Great suggestion, i like it, but honestly i doubt it would ever be able to fit the game world.
@zalavaaris
Not realy sure how this game will be an esport game. Not saying it won’t be but doesn’t seem like it would be overly to fun to watch when some times it can take 30 minutes just to find another ship to fight.... how would you win anyways? It’s not like there’s “match’s”.@crash4654 said in Vertical pve progression:
@timidobserver and not a single one of those is telling people outright to do so, just suggestions about playing a game that they're wanting to play, in reference to you specifically talking about playing for character progression. Plain and simple. In one of those I even said if they want to stick around and play it anyway, then it's whatever, but that still doesn't mean you should change the game to fit what you want it to be by throwing out a core concept.
Whether outright or not matters little to me. It's the difference between being passive aggressive and aggressive. It's just kind of interesting that you keep eluding to going to play another game so often in response to people leaving feedback that you don't like. It almost seems like you want people that disagree with you to go elsewhere. Anyway, this isn't going anywhere I am out.
@pocket-fox-au said in Vertical pve progression:
Why not put these better PvE items in Lootboxes instead?
It adds more fun, player engagement and a sense of accomplishment when you add a paywall and random generator to your core game.Before gambling, no one was going to casinos for the atmosphere and overpriced drinks.
True story.Mention adding loot boxes again and I'll gut you like a scurvy dog...they already said no loot boxes
@barnabas-seadog said in Vertical pve progression:
@zalavaaris said in Vertical pve progression:
Well gg everyone! I love the black dog pack and I love my starting ship! I also don't care for titles so I win and have accomplished the pinnacle of what this game has to offer in just preordering alone! I feel so proud and accomplished....
You haven't accomplished anything.
Can you solo a sloop? Can you solo a galleon? Even if your a skilled sailor, do you know where to go, and when? Can you aim a cannon better than a skeleton?
SoT isn't a game about power and making players feel bad. It's is about soft skills like communication, navigation, coordination, cartography, cooperation, clear thinking under fire, having fun with other people.
The cosmetics and voyages are just a sideshow.Rare makes this awesome sandbox game, but so many players have no imagination.
You don't progress your character. You progress your ability to play better.Be more pirate.
EDIT: actually you do progress your character. When you reach level fifty with all three factions and become Legendary.
mehThis game only has visual progression. The benefit of being a "legend" is visual, your ship is visual, the rep is to get different visuals. If I like how I look right now there is ZERO need to continue. That's game over you win. And skill? Please don't for a second think this is a skill based shooter. This isn't overwatch.. it's an open world pirate sandbox with 2 easily dealt with mob types.
@zalavaaris devil advocate. Skully forts under the big glowing skull cloud are an instance where thatd make the field unlevel. Same with sharks in various situations. I like it...but rare is has a b***r for cosmetics only.
@timidobserver now you're projecting... no, I want them to do whatever they want with the suggestion of if this isn't what you're looking for then there are options... just don't go about trying to change fundamental details that make games what they are.
It's not my fault nor problem that you're taking my suggestions and turning them into absolutes. That's all on you.
@crash4654 ok, you tell me. What is one, just one, aspect of the game that doesn't end in a cosmetic reward? Everything is cosmetic so if you like your look you're done with it. No more progression. So tell me how I'm reaching? This isn't hyperbole, this is the game design so tell me otherwise and WHY I'm wrong. If you mention pirate legend? Cosmetic.. ship upgrades? Cosmetic.. gaining rep? Unlocking cosmetics.. gaining gold? Buying cosmetics... sure you play for fun but what keeps you going when boredom starts? It's game over.... That's when the queues take just a little bit longer. Enjoy! I know I will for the first few weeks.
@zalavaaris Do you need constant rewards? Can't you just play to have fun? What do you do when you get it all?
@senilegold of course I can play to just have fun. But not long term and not seriously. And once I get the cosmetic i want I will feel like I have nothing left to progress on and get bored and quit. There isn't even a story to keep me going like other cosmetic progression games (thinking GW2, but even that had vertical progression as well). So yea I'll play it, I preordered and I'm really looking forward to it. I just wanted the game to last and I think it won't with the current model. Which is fine I suppose, if I'm bored anyway it won't matter.
@zalavaaris I'm guessing your younger but coming from Atari to now I've played it all and in terms of longevity horizontal progression lasts as long as people populate the servers. We will make the game fun, Friends will make the memories last, You will make your own goals.
50 out of 94
