Make Arena great

  • Let's get some balance going here.

    Point system. We have a insanely bad issue with rng. Let's break it down.

    1. You award points for digging up chest, why?
      I see absolutely no reason to be awarding points just for hitting a chest with a shovel.

    2. You give an absurd amount of points for turning them in. Why not half that value? Due to various problems this does not work out well.
      On one hand you have the running team, who all they want is chest so all they do is go get chest, and never actually want to fight anyone.
      The other hand, you have ships with 1 or 2 people on them that will never catch up.
      Add the wind, and location of spawning into the factor and you literal are giving the lead to some ships from the get go.

    3. Kills should be worth alot more than 5 points
      You don't get as much opportunity to make kills as you do to shoot a canon ball into a ship
      What makes this worse is it don't feel like a competition when you get more points for just tapping a chest than you do for actually taking other players out. You also shouldn't build most of your accommodations around fighting if your fighting isn't being rewarded and makes players go chase the pve side of the game for win.

    4. All of the above helps leave gaps in the point system that allows particular ships to get leads in point that are not being able to be caught up with.
      If I have 10k points and the next ship has 5k, why would I care what happens anymore inside the arena? I wouldn't. I am so far ahead that you won't catch up anyway, and at that moment I know there is a very limited time left, and most of your ships are understaffed so I don't feel threatened by no one.

    Different weapons different points per kill.

    1. Blunder buss, requires absolutely 0 thinking behind it. A kill with it should be at the bottom of the totem poll.

    2. Cutlass kills, I'd give this the most points if you removed the stifle, but because of the stifle I would give it the second to least points as it is a brainless weapon also. There is so many loop holes in this weapon that need to be looked over it is insane. If it isn't the constant jump, block never run out of stamina swinging, then someone is using the swing, X, X, rapid motion to bring it back to swing more. This weapon can infinitely be used, has along range charge attack, interrupts players, slows them down, and any fix you have put in place to stop rapid swinging has a exploit around it.

    3. Pistol, I would make this the second highest on the point system, as it is smaller an requires knowing your range and taps. While I don't understand why mid range head shots do not one shot, that makes that gives this weapon even more reason to be up on the point system.

    4. Eye of reach, it is beyond me how you have a rifle that at long range and mid range will not one shot even at someones head. That said, this weapon should get the most points, as if you choose it, the hip fire won't protect you at short range, and it doesn't one shot, and you need to be able to accurately shoot it, thus requiring more skill than any of the other weapons.

    So why do I think weapons need a point system of their own? I believe skill should be rewarded, not luck and exploiting. This will make people think before they grab any weapon.

    Pings

    You guys did great with the little bit better hit reg, but what you have not done is put people in regions. Why are Eu and American servers forced to play together?

    1. Putting people in regions will fill ships faster.
    2. Putting people in regions will make combat a lot more accurate.
    3. It should be a choice not a mandatory idea that you can play with others across the world out of your region.

    Put a limit on matchmaking time.

    1. Place a system in that forces the Arena to launch
    2. Place a system in that puts players that were all over the place on diff ships by themselves or not full into all the other ships that don't have full crews when the arena is about to launch. That way, you have a lot more full ships, and no waiting periods.

    Maps

    1. Put the same amount of chest on each island.
    2. Make the distanced traveled the same for each ship.
    3. Use less maps.
    4. Time limit the maps, make them automatically swap.

    This comes into one whole picture. Less islands, same amount of chest, and the same travel times, requires the players to have to be strategic. There will be more competition knowing you are fighting your way to get here, and the one that comes out on top actually deserves to be there. You won't have runner ships, who avoid every aspect of combat, and you won't be wasting the time limit to get people actually involved in the action. No one will be looking at the maps thinking well this place has 2 chest, that one has 8, and this one has 4. Placing a time limit to clear the maps of chest will stop the leave one chest behind strategy. This also gives time for people to play catch up after being sunk.

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  • @mc-leggers

    I think a lot of people get pigeonholed assuming that The Arena is meant to be a PvP mode, when in actuality it is a competitive mode, which has a broader meaning than "PvP mode." The vision Rare had for The Arena was to make it a condensed version of what you have in Adventure. So the object is still to get the loot, but the player interaction is going to be a lot more prevalent!

    It's not in line with that vision to say the focus should be on killing other players and sinking ships.... If the goal for Arena is to be a condensed and quick paced version of Adventure, then that means the object should be to get the chests using any strategy necessary to obtain them.

    With all of that said - I agree that there needs to be a better balance to the types of strategies that are used to get ahead in The Arena

    So I'm certainly not saying that it's okay that the best strategy for winning in Arena is lying low and digging up chests on the furthest islands... Just as in Adventure, there should be a myriad of different strategies you can use to get ahead - whether you're sneaking, going head on into battle, or trying to lie low.

    All of these should be equally as viable, but right now lying low reigns king, and that's not right.

    The point in your post I agree with the most is that there should be fewer maps available at any given time. Scarcity drives competition - Rare seem to be missing this concept completely when it comes to all things in Sea of Thieves, be it Arena, or even the Reapers Chests in Adventure.

    There's no reason that there should be "plenty to go around" if you're trying to drive people to compete for something... That's just not how it works. But unfortunately with Arena maps and Reaper's Chests - there's plenty to go around so they aren't properly serving their purpose...

  • @mc-leggers we can make it better by deleting it and work on adventure more.

  • The reason there are runaway winners is because most of the crews in Arena are just dumb. They don't pay attention to who is digging chests. They don't try to focus their attacks on certain ships, or try to cut off teams from getting to the outposts.

    They just want to kill other players and shoot cannonballs, even if its at teams that are currently lower than them in standings or at teams that are actually trying to prevent the runaway winners.

    Then they come to the forums and complain that they didn't win.

    The main problem is that because the matchmaking is just based on who is available, and not on the quality of the teams, you get efficient and focused teams that know how to play the game mode and want to win against a bunch of disorganized goofballs that are just out to shoot things so of course the score is going to get run up.

    Could they reduce the number of maps available at a given time to increase the encounters between ships? Probably. Should they change the point amounts and place a higher value on killing players? I don't think so.

  • If the goal is just to get people to fight, just make it last boat standing. No need for points, chests, or digging. Such a simple concept has been the driving force for PvP for decades, people just simple love killing each other. No need for complications, sub systems, or points. Just a good ole fashioned cannon-fest.

  • I just want to clarify that no weapon in SoT is braindead - that's an amatuer's mistake.

  • @galactic-geek said in Make Arena great:

    I just want to clarify that no weapon in SoT is braindead - that's an amatuer's mistake.

    Nah, I'd say that blasting someone off a ship with 2 pellets from 10 feet away, or instakilling someone by pressing LT and RT is pretty brainless.

  • @galactic-geek said in Make Arena great:

    I just want to clarify that no weapon in SoT is braindead - that's an amatuer's mistake.

    I must be a pretty good ametuer then, because I know that I can choose to one tap, or push someone off the ship at any given time with no effort at all at trying to aim

  • If it happens that one day we have new modes (races, fleets vs fleets, coop PvE, defend the fort, Skullball, En Garde, etc), I can already tell that the original Arena mode will be the less played of them all.

    It only shines with a good matchmaking and in a very competitive context like the Battle for Orlando, L.A where there's something real to earn at the end. Maybe they should keep it but only for streaming events.

    It simply cannot work in a casual context as it is, it's too long, lots of moments where nothing is happening, players want fights not digging chests, spawn camping a lot for commendations, etc. The only incentive right now is to earn commendations, cosmetics, there is no thrill, it's rarely exciting, and the fun is missing.

    In short, where it could have been a mode to experiment new ways of playing the game, it's just the same but shorter and that's a shame.

  • Arena could be great, it would satisfy the taste for action alot of people want as far as fighting goes, if they could actually get in a game and have a solid crew without all the bugs and problems that go with it.

    As much as people would like to think it, not everyone plays this game to dig up chest and do the same quest over an over again. A large number of people have a thirst for pvp

  • @mc-leggers i honestly see no reason to even have chest digging in arena i'd play adventure for that

  • Arena is not a 'PvP mode' or something of the sort, despite it's name, as @Chronodusk has already said. Sure, some balance changes are sorely needed, but Rare has been working on them since it's release. What forum posters often fail to see is that this game's balance is a delicate one, tuned over years of development, and as such it's not an easy thing to simply improve it. Rare has been nonstop testing various balance changes in their Insider program, and with smaller ones within that, however, it's a very hard thing to get right. It will never be perfect, as there are far, far too many strategies and joke tactics which could upset the balance of the game, less because they aren't possible to counter and more because no one bothers to try to, as it's not looked at as a competitive mode by much of the community, only a player interaction mode. The blunderbuss isn't a 'braindead weapon', it's a powerful close range weapon meant to be useless at even a medium range, though some unintended effects of it brought some mild OPness to it. The cutlass... is... disappointing for me. It was once a high skill weapon, and it still does have an incredibly high skill ceiling, but it's currently in possession of a lack of cooldowns making it difficult to deal with, more so than intended. It's meant to be a very powerful weapon, directly capable of countering all guns in the game should you learn it's quirks. Other things, such as "why doesn't the EoR headshot one shot people" is in for a reason - that one is because it would give M&K players an extreme advantage over controller using players, which is something the game was built around not having. The current Arena is like the rest of the game, in that people look at it and try to use it in a way that isn't intended, being so used to the nigh nonexistent intelligence requirements of playing most other games released at similar times.

  • @ultmateragnarok said in Make Arena great:

    Arena is not a 'PvP mode' or something of the sort, despite it's name, as @Chronodusk has already said. Sure, some balance changes are sorely needed, but Rare has been working on them since it's release. What forum posters often fail to see is that this game's balance is a delicate one, tuned over years of development, and as such it's not an easy thing to simply improve it. Rare has been nonstop testing various balance changes in their Insider program, and with smaller ones within that, however, it's a very hard thing to get right. It will never be perfect, as there are far, far too many strategies and joke tactics which could upset the balance of the game, less because they aren't possible to counter and more because no one bothers to try to, as it's not looked at as a competitive mode by much of the community, only a player interaction mode. The blunderbuss isn't a 'braindead weapon', it's a powerful close range weapon meant to be useless at even a medium range, though some unintended effects of it brought some mild OPness to it. The cutlass... is... disappointing for me. It was once a high skill weapon, and it still does have an incredibly high skill ceiling, but it's currently in possession of a lack of cooldowns making it difficult to deal with, more so than intended. It's meant to be a very powerful weapon, directly capable of countering all guns in the game should you learn it's quirks. Other things, such as "why doesn't the EoR headshot one shot people" is in for a reason - that one is because it would give M&K players an extreme advantage over controller using players, which is something the game was built around not having. The current Arena is like the rest of the game, in that people look at it and try to use it in a way that isn't intended, being so used to the nigh nonexistent intelligence requirements of playing most other games released at similar times.

    Arena shouldn't have pvp accommodations if it isn't pvp mode, there is in fact probably as many if not more pvp accommodations than pve, the npc's even tell you to fight, the game says sharpen your sword and load your guns, it does not say spam your map and ready you shovel. When you get inside it's a totally different story, they are selling an idea of fight, but the real thing is do what you do in adventure mode

  • All these post about how Rare should change Arena.
    Arena is my main focus, solo with random crews. Why is it I have more fun than I should expect in this mode?

    I have made two hundred kills with a blunderbuss for a High Caliber Sea Dog title.
    Really not a huge achievement but I have done it, while other pirates won't bother.
    Sure the blunderbuss is a rookie weapon that takes no skill, and to be honest many of those kills were in the back of unsuspecting players, but I could have a thousand kills in Adventure with any weapon and that game mode wont care. I also have the sword title but the pistol and EoR are going to be a rough grind for me. My cannon kills are fairly lame.
    Point is, Arena has killcounts where Adventure does not.

    I'm not a great pvp'er, but I am a decent player that loves adversity.
    Overcoming adversity in Arena with all the dysfunction, with other good random players (more here than you would think reading these forums), is a reward that keeps me coming back.
    Once I hit level fifty I'm not sure I would return to Arena, so in anticipation of other changes to the game mode I have eased up on my leveling grind to maybe three or four matches a week. I just don't want it to end.
    I'm beyond suggesting what Rare should do with Arena, and am content to keep my nose to the grindstone and see what comes next.

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