Manipulation & The Pirate Emporium

  • Sometimes, microtransactions are necessary. No one can be faulted for adding honest microtransactions to a finished game (though it is debatable if SoT is a finished product.) That said, Rare takes advantage of some quirks in math and in human nature.

    (By the way, things can be overpriced without being immoral. That ship set could cost $4000, it wouldn't be immoral , just overpriced.)

    One cannot buy things using their actual money. No, first you must pay the middleman. You can only buy things using Ancient Coins. This is a classic scam. Say you're sold on getting a parrot (edit: and the garbage that goes with it), so you head to the emporium. Your 2 cheapest options are 150 coins for $2, and 550 for $6. There is no clean way to get the 650 you need. You'll have 50 left over, which serves 2 purposes for Rare: First, you paid more than you should. Second, you've got these extra ancient coins just sitting there. Doing nothing. It's not enough to buy anything, but why let those coins go to waste? Why not buy a few more and grab another item, just so you don't have any coins left over? The 650 for a pet is just an example, there's countless instances this will occur, now and in future batches of microtransactions.

    If Rare was being honest, they wouldn't have a middleman. You would just buy your creepy pets directly with real money. Or, if a middleman really was necessary (it's not), why not have smallest denomination conversion? 1 cent for 1 coin, so you always buy exactly what you need. But Rare didn't do this, because if they manipulate you into having extra coins, they can get more of your money.

    There's also limited time deals. You better buy this monkey now, dear consumer, or it will cost you more later. Most people already know why this is a scam, so we'll move right along to the Magnum Opus of scammy microtransactions: Pets.

    Virtual pets are disgusting. They are the epitome of manipulating people to buy cr*p. They take a genuine, real life affection for pets that people naturally have, and perv** it to some sickening connection between a consumer and a product. The best way to get people to buy garbage is to get them emotionally invested in it. This practice is worse than lootboxes. I'm sure you'll be able to buy little hats for your monkey and have your parrot do a cute dance soon enough. All to get the consumer subconsciously invested in, and thus paying for, a virtual item designed to feign love.

    If you look at reddit, you'll see posts and art people have dedicated to their pets. On day one, people are already emotionally invested in them, and making the post will only make them more invested. These posts also encourage others to purchase a pet, or get more invested in the one they already have. And then, when Rare adds in whatever new garbage you can get for your pets, people will buy it because of their investment. Not only that, but paying for something will also get people more invested in whatever they bought, in a subconscious desire to justify their purchase. It's a self reinforcing cycle; If you devote time and money to X, you become more invested in X. If you are invested in X, you will devote more time and money to X, and so on. Rare knows this, and now they've got a good chunk of players emotionally, and hence, financially.

    I understand microtransactions in SoT. I'm not opposed to the idea. But this is morally reprehensible. Rare can make extra money without taking advantage of you. Does a company that tries to manipulate you deserve your money?

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  • If people are stupid enough to buy that garbage let them.

    Their Parents should have done a better job teaching them what value is instead of giving them teddy bears every time they pass one in the shop window.

  • Minor nitpick, but you're forgetting that pets are actually 499 coins. The 649 coin bundle is a pet with an included outfit. So, you can buy any pet with the six dollar pack with 550 coins.

    Also, maybe it's not a scam, but rather legally necessary to allow players to earn premium cosmetics in game with Ancient Skeletons. I highly doubt it would be legally or financially responsible to let players earn real world currency by killing the ancient skeletons, so a middle man is required. If there were no ancient coins, then there would be no way to allow people to earn them in game, and that would make it impossible for non paying players to acquire a pet or any other premium cosmetic.

    It's somewhat like using tokens at chuck-e-cheese.

    I think the whole accusatory attitude is unnecessary, as it seems Rare is doing a lot to make monetization fair for players and providing different price points for people with different means. I highly doubt rare is out to scam players, otherwise they would not have spent a year and a half building trust before releasing their microtransaction store

  • @redheadedmut Thanks for the nitpick, I hadn't noticed that. Too busy vomiting.

    That said, the rest of this is still a scam. If Rare really had our best intrest in mind, they'd just allow us to pay directly, and not emotionally manipulate poeple into buying fake companionship.

  • Marketing and scams are different things.

    We have all the details and make a choice, therefore its not a scam. If Rare launched Pets today and talked about the future of sea of thieves knowing that they were shutting down the servers in two weeks... to me would justify calling it a scam. So far rare has been perfectly transparent.

    I personally don't think I am going to fall in love with a virtual parrot or monkey. If this is as big of an issue as you are suggesting, I suspect people need to seek out some serious help. That being said, if buying a virtual pet gives someone satisfaction for $5, maybe its worth it. I don't think ill be crying over the loss of my beloved monkey when eventually the game shuts down.

    Should we start messaging toy manufacturers and complain about their ridiculously over priced stuffed animals? This is the same animal attachment issue right? Perhaps it is worse as it targets young children.

  • @omnipotence13 Thank you for dealing in absolutes. I am of course saying that people will fall in love with their pets, and will wail for a day when they depart.

    The point is, it takes advantage of the human desire for companionship and manipulates it for a profit. Nobody's going to fall in love with their pet, but it will create emotional investment. I'm so glad you could come here and take everything well past the logical extreme.

  • I had wondered what the point in buying a currency, with another currency to buy something was. I wondered why we couldn't buy things directly. Now I get it.

  • I think this whole thread, beginning with the OP is a bit extreme

  • @omnipotence13 said in Manipulation & The Pirate Emporium:

    I think this whole thread, beginning with the OP is a bit extreme

    Maybe a tad, but it's more fun that way.

  • @wilbymagicbear The way I see it, pets/mounts/companions are a rather common mtx in games these days (I'm thinking of the likes of WOW, Warframe, Neverwinter) and frankly I think pets fit the aesthetic of this game very well. Does it really come as a surprise that they'll try to make them appealing to players so as to encourage them to pay for them? Seems less a scam and more shrewd business to me - the point is to make money from them, a fact they've not exactly hidden since they were announced before the game was even released.

    I've bought a pet, and I knew I was going to buy a pet (price dependent) long before I knew what they would look like or how they would work. I knew I wanted to support the game beyond my initial purchase and was more than happy to chuck £5 to Rare for one of their simian creations. It's nothing more than a fun thing to have. I honestly feel like you're reading far too much in to this.

  • I think one thing many people forget is it's not actually Rare that's getting your money here. The middle man controls it all and ultimately has the final say in costs and conversions.

    Now i may be wrong here and the world of Business is a convoluted machine but the transactions you are making are with Microsoft who in turn are Funding the Development of SoT by Rare yes? This is how i believe it to be working currently.

    Therefore Microsoft will make a decision upon the amount players spend as to how much further funding is given to the studio for future development.
    Rare are, or at least have been, funded no matter what here. The notion that what you are spending is going directly into there development coffer seems unlikely to me.

  • If you don't want to support the game, then that's cool, but with all these FREE content updates from March 2018 till now, and FREE future content updates.. don't you think this matters, yeah you may have 50 coins left, however did it, or did it not go towards something worth buying?

    As Rare said, "We want players to know what they are buying in the Emporium"

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  • @mad-jack-ketch Might I ask you to read the first sentance? You seem to have missed the point.

  • @ixxolos Perhaps, but I don't think it really matters. I say Rare because Rare is the public of it, but really Rare is Microsoft. Either way, a company named Rare is being kind of shady with their microtransactions.

  • @luciansanchez82 Maybe I am, but I think we should cause a fuss at the start. If we're okay with the microtransactions being a little shady, no one will object as (if) they gradually get shadier and shadier until we hit EA levels. Best to stop it in its infancy, no?

    Shrewd business and scamming have have a very blurry border. Which sidea is this on? Who can say? I just think Rare should be honest with this.

  • @wilbymagicbear As far as microtransactions go (and lets be honest, we'd all choose the world in which they don't exist) these to me seem like the fairest I've seen in a game. Though in saying that I've seldom spent money on MTX in games so I don't really have much to compare to. I would like to be enlightened though, where have Rare not been honest? You can see exactly what you're going to get with the money you spend. granted I now have 50 spare coins but I hardly feel like they're wasted. I guess in my case I just happen to feel satisfied with my £5 purchase in so far as I think that's a fair price for a pet.

    Though if you do see a potential for shadier dealings in future, then yes, it's right to be highlighted and discussed.

    Anyway, gotta go, Dean gets awful cranky if I don't play him a shanty before bed. Pets hey... who'd 'ave 'em!

  • I feel like this fussing for the sake of fussing. We ALLLLLL new they we're bringing in micro-transactions. We also new they we're bringing in pets! I personally can't think of a game that I play that doesn't have left over premium currency GTA5, RD2, GOW4/5. It's all part of having an addiction/completion complex, if you want it get it, if you don't then don't. I am an adult that can spend money as I choose. If I choose to buy the whole store, I will. I will also buy future content if I choose. Notice the repetition of Choose. You don't have to have a pet, you don't have to have the extra anything. It's your choice if you can afford it. Personally, I think the ship set is a bit overpriced, you can buy an entire game, or major portion of a AAA title for the cost. I feel this needs an adjustment, but I am all for buying things if you choose to do so. It will give Rare money to keep this game rolling, and adding additional, in-depth content.

  • @betrayme84 I'm not saying you can't spend your money how you please, or that we shouldn't have microtransactions. I'm simply saying that Rare is taking advantage of us, and we shouldn't tolerate it.

  • @wilbymagicbear Please elaborate on how Rare is taking advantage? I am genuinely curious.

  • @betrayme84 Disregard I re-read the post. I believe you are stating that by adding pets they are taking advantage. What would you have them add to the game?

  • @ixxolos You are correct to certain Extent. The money or a portion of will go to Microsoft who foots the bill for the game. With an influx of cash, Microsoft will essentially renew Rare in the next venture whether that comes as additional content for Sea of Thieves, or a new game in general. Either way it comes full circle and supports Rare one way or the other.

  • @betrayme84 Did you try reading the post?

  • @betrayme84 Disregard that lol, I should try reading the comment.

    I would have just added more cosmetics and emotes. Perhaps cosmetics foe currently uncustomizable things, like the ship compasd. And I wouldn't have a middleman.

  • Rare fulfilled the only criteria I have for MTX, ancient coins can be earned and grinded in game. I'm delighted, I didn't even think they'd allow it, and I'd have been ok with that.

    You don't need to spend any money to buy a pet. You'll need luck and persistance, but if you can kill enough of those skeletons you can buy whatever you want without spending any real money at all.

    It's a perfectly fair system. Sure, it incentivises spending money, it's a store, that's what a store is.

  • @boxcar-squidy Have you seen, or spoken to anyone who has seen an aincent skeleton?

  • @wilbymagicbear

    You mean in the less than two days it's been out?

  • @vac-hombre I take it you haven't either. If it's ludicrously rare, it's not going to be a practical way to earn it. (Which is obviously exactly what Rare is going for)

  • I buy all my ancient coins with Microsoft's money.

  • @wilbymagicbear I have seen 1 in the last 2 days of sailing. Spawned on Smugglers Bay whilst i was digging a chest from a random barrel scroll.
    I heard the music, gave chase, shot at it once then was shot in the back and killed by the pursuing skellies i had neglected. Upon re-spawn it was long gone.
    I suspect them to be a Rare occurrence and doubt i'll see another for a while such is my luck.

  • @wilbymagicbear

    Ah, so you've got numbers on it?

    Cool, what're the odds?

    (And don't bother asking me for gossip; I don't talk to anybody and always hold off on updates for a couple days to let things calm down.)

  • @wilbymagicbear said in Manipulation & The Pirate Emporium:

    @boxcar-squidy Have you seen, or spoken to anyone who has seen an aincent skeleton?

    No. I've only played once since this update. For me it's not about how easy/difficult it is, it's the fact that it's possible. Rare can tweak the ratios. They could even add ancient coins to other things in future.

    This is about a continuing revenue stream, so the fact that they are going to allow people on-board without having to pay, even if it is very difficult, is commendable in my book and kinda shows that Rare aren't trying to lock people who don't want to/can't pay out.

  • I'm actually with @WilbyMagicBear on this one, apart from the whole pets thing (which is... fine... just... fine). And I am actually surprised how many people just accept the Ancient Coins bundles because Rare have built up goodwill over 18 months and promise free updates.

    Regardless of the availability of Ancient Coins in the game as well, the fact remains that when you buy the bundles of coins, you are always left over with change. And that is a very well known manipulation tactic of F2P game MTX to get you thinking you could round that off and buy something else.

    Let's accept the fact that Ancient Coins are in the game because of the skeleton drops, for the sake of argument, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a way to convert cash for the exact amount you want as well.

    I'm okay with pets. To me, they seem reasonably priced for what you get and they are an indirect way to support the development of the game going forward. They're not perfect, but for less than €5 (if you got the biggest bundle of AC), they're decent.

    The ship prices though and, in particular, the additional "premium" add-ons are what irk me more than anything. I've already given my two cents on that though, so I won't repeat it (blah blah decoy effect), but it's not a good look when the expensive ship cosmetics are part of a headline on games news sites.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Jim Sterling video on this, to be honest.

  • @realstyli I can't disagree on the change left over.

    It's such a common tactic, it's almost universal. Definitely slightly manipulative, and sadly it sort of, but not quite, flies in the face of what Rare were saying about MTX "you see what you buy, no loot boxes or pay 2 win" yeah true, but you can't buy exactly what you want, you gotta exchange real money for coins and then you've got extra left over.

    It's a tactic that all stores use in RL too though. Ever bought something that cost €5.99? The only difference is that €0.01 can be spent in other places. It's an important difference though. What Rare is doing is a bit like handing over €6 for something that cost €5.99 and the shopkeeper popping that €0.01 in his pocket and saying "I'll just hold on to this for you, I'm sure you'll be back..."

    There's obviously a reason that all MTX stores use this tactic though. It must work in terms of revenue, I'll bet there's science behind it.

  • @boxcar-squidy

    Sure, it certainly works! I'm sure, almost positive, there are seminars that marketing people go to that teach these techniques, among others.

    The reason shops have prices set with 99 at the end is that most people won't percieve the tiny difference between say €19.99 and €20 or €199 and €200. A lot of people's brains will round down rather than up.

    A lot of commentators have been saying it for a long time that publishers/developers are basically pushing the line forward as much as they can so the fall back ends up with net progress for them - They see what they can get away with, then we all get angry and yell about it and they retreat enough to keep us happy, but in the end they still gain on what it was before.

    This is how we've ended up going from horse armour for a few quid, to really expensive "macro-transactions". How they got away with loot boxes for so long until EA messed up and designed a full-price game where they affect gameplay. They retreated from that to a degree (reluctantly) but now we accept huge "recurrent spending" as okay.

    You give an inch, they take a mile. You complain about it, they give you half a mile back and everything is suddenly fine. Until the next time when giving half a mile is the norm.

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