Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!

  • Skiff,
    Max of one player / One mast / Two decks / One gun at the stern / Faster into the wind than the Sloop, slower with the wind than the Sloop / More maneuverability than the Sloop.

    Sloop, (Already in game)
    Max of two players / One mast / Three decks / Two guns; One starboard, one portside.

    Brigantine, (Already in game)
    Max of three players / Two masts / Three decks / Four guns; Two starboard, two portside.

    Carrack,
    Max of four players / Three masts / Four decks / Six guns; Three starboard, three portside / Slower into the wind than the Brigantine, faster with the wind than the Brigantine / Less Maneuverability than the Brigantine.

    Galleon, (Already in game)
    Max of five players / Three masts / Four decks / Eight guns; Four starboard, Four portside.

    Man-O-War
    Max of Six players / Three masts / Five decks / Ten guns; Five starboard, Five portside. Slower into the wind than the Galleon, Faster with the wind than the Galleon / Less maneuverable than the galleon.

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  • If it was that easy, they would have done it already...

    Sadly, it's not - you're forgetting 2 key factors:

    1. Game balance
    2. Online stability
  • Adding a player to a galleon in the suggestion already throws off the balance

  • I think they could safely raise the cap from 24 players per server to 36 if they optimized it more.

    A man-0-war or frigate would work if it was slow and sluggish. It would be fast in the wind after accelerating but even that should take time. It would be better for defense than offense ideally.

  • @m1sterpunch said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    I think they could safely raise the cap from 24 players per server to 36 if they optimized it more.

    Wild guess or is there something to back that up?

  • @galactic-geek said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    If it was that easy, they would have done it already...

    Sadly, it's not - you're forgetting 2 key factors:

    1. Game balance
    2. Online stability

    How would you figure my ideas would unbalance the game? Riddle me that; if you would please.

  • @omnipotence13 said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    Adding a player to a galleon in the suggestion already throws off the balance

    I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on your statement more; as I am unable to see how it would make the game unbalanced.

  • @lunar-craze said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @galactic-geek said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    If it was that easy, they would have done it already...

    Sadly, it's not - you're forgetting 2 key factors:

    1. Game balance
    2. Online stability

    How would you figure my ideas would unbalance the game? Riddle me that; if you would please.

    I thought it was obvious, but I guess not. Also, I won't have to, as you can look at any number of other threads already discussing this subject at length. Do your own research, if you would please.

  • @galactic-geek getting a little sassy are we now eh? all I asked for was how you think it will unbalance the game. nothing to hard I don't think.

  • @lunar-craze said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @galactic-geek getting a little sassy are we now eh? all I asked for was how you think it will unbalance the game. nothing to hard I don't think.

    5 and 6 players? A cannon at the fore? You don't see these as unbalanced?!

    There's also a lot of other factors you don't address, like ship speed, manueverability, etc.

  • @galactic-geek I never mentioned a cannon at the fore/bow-chasers. I will state that I did mention a cannon at the stern of the Skiff as it would be its only cannon for defense.
    Personally I don't see a problem with adding another player to the galleon as it would be harder to "Shot call" and "Organize" the crew.
    As for the "Ship Speed" and "Maneuverability" I would gladly edit my post to fit your parameters. Happy?

  • @galactic-geek I edited my post; just like I said.

  • @lunar-craze A cannon at the front OR back is OP.

    And you're crazy if you think Rare hasn't already playtested all of these potential ideas. How do you think we got to where we are?

  • @lunar-craze
    Back cannons don't work, too many people on a ship would make soloing even harder, and there shouldn't be a ship bigger and faster than a galley. Also, like others have said, big ships would reduce the amount of possible ships on a server.

  • @crimsonraziel they had a bug in the game for a short while where you could have more then four on a ship. From the clips I've seen of the big everything seemed pretty smooth, so the game can already support more then 24 players to some extent.

  • @LUNAR-CRAZE Rare playtested the galleon with 5 and 6 player crews. It was incredibly OP. People have asked for this time and time again and, just like the solo krakens and whatnot, they ask for it to be removed after it becomes far more difficult to do. The difference it it can't be as easily rebalanced.

    Fore/Aft cannons are never going to work as normal cannons. Perhaps a smaller one, which creates smaller holes and can't load cursed cannonballs (although realistically someone would make smaller cursed ones, but that won't happen), could be balanced, but unless it's on a skeleton ship or some other AI ship it wouldn't work either way.

    Bigger ship, eh. Could work, could fail. The galleon is already huge, at this point you'd need to start thinking in the way of multiple ships in balance and usability (bailing, docking, turning, acceleration/deceleration, sandbar clipping, etc would be difficult to do).

    @XZODEAK & @m1sterpunch The reason for the 6 ship limit is twofold - the ships, not the players, are taxing on the server (this is why loading screens take longer in battles), and there are only 6 usable outposts (Morrow's Peak doesn't count as it's in the Devil's Roar, same reason you don't spawn there).

  • @ultmateragnarok said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @LUNAR-CRAZE Rare playtested the galleon with 5 and 6 player crews. It was incredibly OP. People have asked for this time and time again and, just like the solo krakens and whatnot, they ask for it to be removed after it becomes far more difficult to do. The difference it it can't be as easily rebalanced.

    Fore/Aft cannons are never going to work as normal cannons. Perhaps a smaller one, which creates smaller holes and can't load cursed cannonballs (although realistically someone would make smaller cursed ones, but that won't happen), could be balanced, but unless it's on a skeleton ship or some other AI ship it wouldn't work either way.

    Bigger ship, eh. Could work, could fail. The galleon is already huge, at this point you'd need to start thinking in the way of multiple ships in balance and usability (bailing, docking, turning, acceleration/deceleration, sandbar clipping, etc would be difficult to do).

    @XZODEAK & @m1sterpunch The reason for the 6 ship limit is twofold - the ships, not the players, are taxing on the server (this is why loading screens take longer in battles), and there are only 6 usable outposts (Morrow's Peak doesn't count as it's in the Devil's Roar, same reason you don't spawn there).

    While they may have play tested a galleon with 5 and 6 player options it's still possible to balance such a ship by slowing things down on the ship.

    Slow down how long it takes to raise the anchor, move the sails, turn the ship's wheel, repair the hull, number of holes that can potentially be in the hull, where the barrels are located, how fast the ship moves in different wind conditions.

    All these things are components of ship balance can can drastically change how effective each crew member is and how important or not important it is to have all crew on ship.

    These are the components of the ship that rare can easily augment to bring balance to the game.

    Give me the controls and I can balance a sloop to be 10X more powerful now than it is or 10X weaker than it is now simply by adjusting the components listed above; the same can be done for any ship in Sea of Thieves.

    Balance can be tricky, but it's not impossible and it's not complicated if you understand some basics of good game design.

  • i would also like more ship variety in the game.

    i still support the addition of a solo player ship other than the sloop. I've made a couple of topics specifically made to design one.

    most argue that no cannons should be on either the bow or stern of such a ship. a cannon on the stern would be unfair for pursuers and a cannon on the bow would be unfair to the ones being pursued. people even went as far as to say that such a ship should have no cannons at all and designed as a leisurely ship.

  • @swimplatypus7 said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @ultmateragnarok said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @LUNAR-CRAZE Rare playtested the galleon with 5 and 6 player crews. It was incredibly OP. People have asked for this time and time again and, just like the solo krakens and whatnot, they ask for it to be removed after it becomes far more difficult to do. The difference it it can't be as easily rebalanced.

    Fore/Aft cannons are never going to work as normal cannons. Perhaps a smaller one, which creates smaller holes and can't load cursed cannonballs (although realistically someone would make smaller cursed ones, but that won't happen), could be balanced, but unless it's on a skeleton ship or some other AI ship it wouldn't work either way.

    Bigger ship, eh. Could work, could fail. The galleon is already huge, at this point you'd need to start thinking in the way of multiple ships in balance and usability (bailing, docking, turning, acceleration/deceleration, sandbar clipping, etc would be difficult to do).

    @XZODEAK & @m1sterpunch The reason for the 6 ship limit is twofold - the ships, not the players, are taxing on the server (this is why loading screens take longer in battles), and there are only 6 usable outposts (Morrow's Peak doesn't count as it's in the Devil's Roar, same reason you don't spawn there).

    While they may have play tested a galleon with 5 and 6 player options it's still possible to balance such a ship by slowing things down on the ship.

    Slow down how long it takes to raise the anchor, move the sails, turn the ship's wheel, repair the hull, number of holes that can potentially be in the hull, where the barrels are located, how fast the ship moves in different wind conditions.

    All these things are components of ship balance can can drastically change how effective each crew member is and how important or not important it is to have all crew on ship.

    These are the components of the ship that rare can easily augment to bring balance to the game.

    Give me the controls and I can balance a sloop to be 10X more powerful now than it is or 10X weaker than it is now simply by adjusting the components listed above; the same can be done for any ship in Sea of Thieves.

    Balance can be tricky, but it's not impossible and it's not complicated if you understand some basics of good game design.

    exactly my point. There are many ways to make the nautical battles feel balanced. You also have to take in mind that a ship can only be deadly if its organized. If the ships captain cant keep the crew at maximum efficiency the entire battle is at a loss.

  • @lunar-craze Well that or the other crew has to be even worse and it comes down to who's crew is less bad.

  • @ultmateragnarok I understand it's the ships are what's so taxing. Also you could argue that you could have more then six ships at once since the skeleton ships behave so much like player ships.

  • @xzodeak
    While the skeleton ships are somewhat taxing in physics simulation and skeleton AI on the ship, part of what makes player ships so bad is the many, many moving parts. The capstan, sails, wheel, cannons, lanterns, harpoons, and more can all be interacted with in more ways than one for almost all of them. Moving this is a good amount of the problem, but since skeleton ships only worry about moving a bit of AI (which isn't as hard), the cannons, the wheel, the barrels and the hull they don't take nearly as much to support. That's why there can be 4-6 skeleton ships roaming about and a fleet adding 4 more and have the game run mostly normally.

  • @swimplatypus7 said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    Slow down how long it takes to raise the anchor, move the sails, turn the ship's wheel, repair the hull, number of holes that can potentially be in the hull, where the barrels are located, how fast the ship moves in different wind conditions.

    Everything on Galleon is already painfully slow. lol

    @lunar-craze said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    If the ships captain cant keep the crew at maximum efficiency the entire battle is at a loss.

    If a person does not have tools to manage the situation he cannot be asked to bear any responsibility for it!

    Your negative means to manage the situation are limited - the only way to punish anyone is send them to brig, there is no fear of pain from getting flogged or fear of death from getting hanged/shot for disobeying orders unlike in real life. So people don't care...

    Your positive options are really just to try to inspire others to be better - but to 'git gut' you gotta get serious and many will tell you this is a game (for them) and they don't want to be serious about it, so they don't care...

    Thus, leaving you with the only option - to find some nolifes/tryhards whose ego hasn't consumed them yet so they actually can work like a team. Talk about finding a needle in a haystack.

  • @ultmateragnarok The wheel, cannons etc are already functional on the skeleton ships and i doubt that the animations for the sails and capstan would be all that taxing.

  • @xzodeak

    Wait....

    You can use the wheel and cannon on the skeleton ships?

  • @xzodeak It isn't animations, it's moving functionalities with the ship. The animations are easy to run, which is why all of the islands can have shores with infinite holes being dug up, and moving plants, waterfalls, pools, fires, and other things.

    @SwimPlatypus7 You can use the cannons if the skeletons aren't on them, the wheel is unusable but does turn with the captain moving it.

  • @ultmateragnarok

    I did not know that about the skeleton ships.. NOW I am interested in some sneaky action..

    As for the captain I knew that, but thought you may be able to actually steer the ship and that would be amazing.

  • @swimplatypus7

    It just so happens that skeleton ships are sentient, and sail regardless of what their captain or crew wants. Just another thing on top of being a cursed ship with an unlimited supply of skeletons trapped beneath it's boards that rises from the depths each time it sinks.

    They control their movement fully (although they seem to have some serious tunnel vision and horrible eyesight), but the crew controls what is not part of the ship. Cannons aren't mounted to the deck, so they aren't affected by it (that and balance). Rare puts some serious thought behind creating these things, just another reason why updates take so long I guess.

  • @ultmateragnarok

    I knew that they sail them selves from killing the captain in the ship events a couple times just to see if it would help.

    Unfortunately we worked out quickly that the ship was its own entity and the captain was just decoration.

    This makes me wonder how vehicles are handled in game........ Very interesting mechanics they have going there, and it's obvious that the player ship and the skeleton ships are different mechanically.

  • @swimplatypus7

    Well all of the ropes for the sails are gone or disconnected, and the wheel doesn't seem to be linked to the rudder (sometimes). The capstan is broken and jammed halfway down. In terms of AI it functions similarly to a megalodon, running circles around those it fights and occasionally ramming, although they will match pace sometimes. They don't have the same avoidance for land however, as most players experience.

  • More Ships would be nice. But at the moment it's 4 players max. to a crew and 20 players max. to a server. So those issues would have to be "worked out" before we would really need any more ships.

    At the moment the 3 Ships that we have are adequate for crews of 1,2,3 and 4.

  • @captcoza said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @crimsonraziel Use to be 40, but there was way to much PvP action at every skull fort

    At which point in time?

  • @m1sterpunch said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    I think they could safely raise the cap from 24 players per server to 36 if they optimized it more.

    A man-0-war or frigate would work if it was slow and sluggish. It would be fast in the wind after accelerating but even that should take time. It would be better for defense than offense ideally.

    Educated guess? The limit is on ships, not on players so a slight increase on that would stress the servers for sure but if they are currently running stable with a max 24 players there's no reason it couldn't be increased with more optimization.

    It's not like I'm suggesting 100 players like Fortnite. (less physics in that game so it's not comparable, I know but it's got a decent sized map, draw distance and similar art style in the same engine)

  • @lunar-craze said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @swimplatypus7 said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @ultmateragnarok said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @LUNAR-CRAZE Rare playtested the galleon with 5 and 6 player crews. It was incredibly OP. People have asked for this time and time again and, just like the solo krakens and whatnot, they ask for it to be removed after it becomes far more difficult to do. The difference it it can't be as easily rebalanced.

    Fore/Aft cannons are never going to work as normal cannons. Perhaps a smaller one, which creates smaller holes and can't load cursed cannonballs (although realistically someone would make smaller cursed ones, but that won't happen), could be balanced, but unless it's on a skeleton ship or some other AI ship it wouldn't work either way.

    Bigger ship, eh. Could work, could fail. The galleon is already huge, at this point you'd need to start thinking in the way of multiple ships in balance and usability (bailing, docking, turning, acceleration/deceleration, sandbar clipping, etc would be difficult to do).

    @XZODEAK & @m1sterpunch The reason for the 6 ship limit is twofold - the ships, not the players, are taxing on the server (this is why loading screens take longer in battles), and there are only 6 usable outposts (Morrow's Peak doesn't count as it's in the Devil's Roar, same reason you don't spawn there).

    While they may have play tested a galleon with 5 and 6 player options it's still possible to balance such a ship by slowing things down on the ship.

    Slow down how long it takes to raise the anchor, move the sails, turn the ship's wheel, repair the hull, number of holes that can potentially be in the hull, where the barrels are located, how fast the ship moves in different wind conditions.

    All these things are components of ship balance can can drastically change how effective each crew member is and how important or not important it is to have all crew on ship.

    These are the components of the ship that rare can easily augment to bring balance to the game.

    Give me the controls and I can balance a sloop to be 10X more powerful now than it is or 10X weaker than it is now simply by adjusting the components listed above; the same can be done for any ship in Sea of Thieves.

    Balance can be tricky, but it's not impossible and it's not complicated if you understand some basics of good game design.

    exactly my point. There are many ways to make the nautical battles feel balanced. You also have to take in mind that a ship can only be deadly if its organized. If the ships captain cant keep the crew at maximum efficiency the entire battle is at a loss.

    Anyone that truly understands game design, and game balancing would know that adding an entirely new system like this would essentially require Rare to redesign the game from scratch... and this could take... How long did it take Rare to get this game into the state where microsoft pushed its release? Yeah, longer than that, because Rare actually needed more time to work on the game... but microsoft pushed them to release early... Hence why so many people complained about lack of content in the beginning.

    Yes, it's always possible to balance a game in any way you see fit... However that doesn't mean its always realistically feasible within irl limitations... Quite frankly, Rare cannot afford to have this game go offline for 3-5 years whilst they balance the game after this entirely new ship system.

    This threads suggestion is more appropriate for a sequel like "Sea of Thieves 2" or something to be very honest, i don't think it will ever make it into this game. : /

  • @captcoza said in Add more Ships! Ships!! Ships!!!:

    @galactic-geek Nothing is easy, but that doesn't mean you don't do it

    Rare a Prioritising what the community vote for.

    Lets get the votes up for this

    Actually, they aren't. If they were, the game would be beyond broken by now. They are considering what players want, you're certainly right about that at least, but only if it's innovative, makes sense with the theme of the game, and is balanced.

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